what's made up? It’s an assumption based on everything I’ve seen and read over 10 years of following the player. On that basis nobody is allowed to have an opinion because we don’t really know exactly what goes on behind the scenes? That’s just a cop out.Stop making stuff up
I don't think it's a case of being unsettled, it's not like Madrid has been banging our door down for him. I think it's a mix of reasons that he hasn't hit the heights, part of it is on him of course, but you need to apply a logical approach to it. In my opinion, and I've been saying this since he first got here, we don't have the midfield to bring the best out of Pogba.Playing poorly on purpose? I never ever said that. I said playing nice as in with contract talks and PR in the press about how he’s so happy now while all the evidence of the last 4 years points towards him not being settled. If he was settled he might be more consistent but that’s it. He’s a good player but he’s not the right player for us.
good post and i agree we didn’t build well around him but Matic and Fred were signed for another 90 plus million to help him. Bruno signed for another 60 something to most likely replace him. So that’s 150/60 plus the 90 for Pogba and we still don’t have a settled midfield. Something doesn’t add up. We also added lukaku when they were mates for 80 million. That’s over 300 million based on building around or replacing one player while we struggled to make top 4.I don't think it's a case of being unsettled, it's not like Madrid has been banging our door down for him. I think it's a mix of reasons that he hasn't hit the heights, part of it is on him of course, but you need to apply a logical approach to it. In my opinion, and I've been saying this since he first got here, we don't have the midfield to bring the best out of Pogba.
Not to repeat my past posts but it was clear from the outset, before we signed him, that he liked playing in a free-ish role off the left of midfield at Juve, that's where he shone and grabbed our attention. To enable that he had top players alongside him to facilitate that role. Players we clearly didn't have at United.
Then we proceeded to purchase him and push him into DM roles, in a midfield two, alongside substandard DM's. We've not exactly done what we could have to make the most of his signing.
When you consider we broke our transfer record to sign Pogba, there is no reason other than poor planning/scouting for us to not have built the team around that record-breaking signing. Or at least give him the tools to play well at DM.
Then you should consider our expectations of Pogba, playing in that deeper role, next to poor DM's that highlight his own limitations defensively (which we were well aware of) yet we expect him to create, score and be the best player in our squad. Why? Because we paid lots of money? That's not a reason to remove common sense.
For argument sake; We could spend £100 million on a player like Haaland, but if we push him into a no. 10 role alongside the likes of Martial and Dan James would you expect him to play like he has at Dortmund?
Bit extreme example perhaps, but you get my point, we've basically limited our return on his investment.
It's natural to expect more from a record-breaking signing but you have to apply logic and weigh up the situation as a whole and the reasons for it's failure, as well as the player himself. Rarely is failure purely down to a single issue, more likely multiple issues culminating in that outcome.
The signing of a top DM to partner Pogba was obvious, it's still to this day something we need to address whether we keep or lose Pogba, why then wait for him to leave before we address it? Especially when it would fix existing issues within the squad at DM and also bring the best out in our most talented and most expensive player. Personally I think we've fecked this up as much as Paul has.
This plus his patchy performances. The amount of money he’ll need to stay. The lack of balance in the team when he plays and his agent and family sticking the boot in every chance they get. I don’t know does everyone still want him based on the time he played attacking midfielder with little to no defensive responsibilities? He’s not a good box to box player because he won’t do the defensive work for 90 minutes. He switches off and it costs us as much as he adds at the other end, arguably more over the last year or soI’m not a huge fan of Pogba mostly because some of the shit he’s said in the media but some of the takes and opinions on him here are ridiculous. As I’ve read elsewhere, Jose’s character assassination of Pogba was successful since he has some of you believing that he is the problem.
He was a very important cog in our midfield, he and Fernandes were essential in breaking down the defensive teams. Pogba was doing great work when Fernandes's form slightly dipped over the Christmas period. He's also a big reason why we can dominate games like we have done this season.Form has fallen apart without him.
that I can’t deny. I think the squad is still too small and needs fresh ideas and investment.Form has fallen apart without him.
ForUm has fallen apart with him!Form has fallen apart without him.
Cue a detailed breakdown of the exact current situation, what the specific motivations are on all sides, all conditions and figures involved. Based on... ‘the past’.If there is even the slightest possibility of him signing a new deal we should jump at it right now.
Pogba has been inconsistent no arguments about it and if we can get decent fee in Summer for him he should be sold , but bolded part is some real mental gymnastics all these players were bought because we needed them or atleast the players of similar profile, not to help Pogba or build around him . Mourinho has done real number on some of our fans.good post and i agree we didn’t build well around him but Matic and Fred were signed for another 90 plus million to help him. Bruno signed for another 60 something to most likely replace him. So that’s 150/60 plus the 90 for Pogba and we still don’t have a settled midfield. Something doesn’t add up. We also added lukaku when they were mates for 80 million. That’s over 300 million based on building around or replacing one player while we struggled to make top 4.
What more can we actually do? What else do fans need to see? We tried to build around Pogba- didn’t work, in fact before Bruno came were some of the darkest days as a fan in my lifetime. We looked in free fall miles off getting back all with the most expensive midfielder in the world in our ranks. We replace him and it actually works out really well but now we still have to shoehorn him in and give him a massive new deal for the pleasure?
build on a poor foundation and get what you deserve. doubling down on the failed bet sounds about right for us. All new contracts and transfers are based on what’s happened in “the past” so I don’t know why you’re implying it’s not relevant in this case.Cue a detailed breakdown of the exact current situation, what the specific motivations are on all sides, all conditions and figures involved. Based on... ‘the past’.
I think they were signed to do the defensive work once they realised Pogba was a defensive liability. If we’d got another box to box would we have had to build around them so much? The video on Fred is actually really good. They got it spot on.Pogba has been inconsistent no arguments about it and if we can get decent fee in Summer for him he should be sold , but bolded part is some real mental gymnastics all these players were bought because we needed them or atleast the players of similar profile, not to help Pogba or build around him . Mourinho has done real number on some of our fans.
Pogba may not be great consistently for us but he is still better than almost all of our other midfield options. If he goes we would need two more additions to our team in midfield otherwise we aren't challenging next season either.
i agree with all of this, you just said it better than I could. I don’t want him driven out of the club. He’s a good player. I just think we should be looking at spending that kind of money on something more suitable and complimentary to what we are building since Bruno came in. The other stuff is just yet another reason why he’s not a perfect fit.My concern with Pogba is two fold. No doubt he would have helped us in some of the games this month and the fact is, he is clearly our best central midfielder. However, my first concern is his wages. He is not and has not been worth the value of his wages. Keeping him on for even more wages may be a poor choice as he hasn't proven to be the type of player we actually needed. The second reason correlates with the first for me, I don't believe, and never have believed, that Pogba is actually suited to the league in the role of a central midfielder. He requires too much time on the ball and his lack of defensive awareness is still glaring. To play in a Premier league midfield, a player would have to be a able to move the ball quickly and have a high work rate. City's midfielders may be slight, but all of them are able to move the ball quickly and have a high enough work rate to win second balls/press aggressively. Liverpool won the league partially because their midfield had those features, see how negatively adding a player like Thiago has been for them. Our teams of Old, from the 94 team to the 99 team to the 08 team and in between, those teams had midfielders whose main purpose were to keep their shape, win the ball, move it to more creative areas and join in to the attack. Even the playmakers that have been successful in England have all had the ability to move the ball quickly through one twos and quick turns.
That being said, I still do think Pogba is a really good player and is not characteristically as bad as he is made out to be. However, like Veron, I feel he would benefits from the space and time given to him in Serie A, where he can make a lot more drives, has more time to connect his long passes and his physicality can be more influential.
I think playing him with Bruno will spur him on to hitting (and maintaining) the heights we expect from him. If we could just get a proper DM, our midfield would be scary.I'm extremely massively torn and tired. If he'd stay fit and hungry, of course I think everyone would want him to stay. But I can't be dealing with the uninterested Pogba with all the faff that comes with him.
I hear you, but I think I'd rather take the risk of resigning Pogba than selling him and entrusting Woodward and co. to reinvest wisely.Yes, he will stay for an astronomical contract. Surprise surprise!
Then watch fans blame Woodward a year down the road for giving him a "rooney/de gea/sanchez" contract at age 28 while Raoila tells us United as a club has no ambition and how we're lucky to have him.
He wasn't fit for most of the start of the season, that much was obvious. Covid and no pre season hit him hard.Our win percentage with him in the team starting games in is pretty average(quick check say it' 53% with him as a starter this year, correct me if I am wrong), so why are people saying our title hopes went with him going off injured?
He literally had like 5 good games maximum in PL this season, and was pretty poor for entire first half of the season for Covid reasons/whatever, so I have no idea how people can still come up with that bullshit. The level of underrating for other players some people will go while they overrate anything Pogba does is unbelievable.
This post is a perfect example of the stuff I talk about all the time, and then I’m labelled some sort of fanboy or whatever for challenging made up nonsense or gross exaggeration.Our win percentage with him in the team starting games in is pretty average(quick check say it' 53% with him as a starter this year, correct me if I am wrong), so why are people saying our title hopes went with him going off injured?
He literally had like 5 good games maximum in PL this season, and was pretty poor for entire first half of the season for Covid reasons/whatever, so I have no idea how people can still come up with that bullshit. The level of underrating for other players some people will go while they overrate anything Pogba does is unbelievable.
If his ultimate goal is to win trophies, then act like it. Put your head down and consistently give the effort required whether the team is battling for trophies or not.I think his ultimate goal is to win trophies, and during his time here we haven't matched that ambition. We've not even been challenging for the major ones during his 5 years here - it's natural he'll want to leave. I agree that the way it all played out with Mino wasn't pretty, but it's unfair to blame that on Pogba, more a case of Mino being a tit
Our team is better with him playing, no doubt, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't rather see him sold to buy a more consistnet performer in his place. Selling him and not bringing in another creator would of course be a huge mistake.Really can't wait until he is back, I've admittedly been flip flopping with him in the past mostly due to antics off the pitch with his camp and rat agent but to have him in that team right now would be a massive boost,
I feel our players know how quality he is and therefore feel more confident going into a game with him besides them,
Will be a massive boost when he and Cavani returns
The issue is there's no money out there, mate. The only team who could make it worthwhile to sell would be PSG I would imagine.Our team is better with him playing, no doubt, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't rather see him sold to buy a more consistnet performer in his place. Selling him and not bringing in another creator would of course be a huge mistake.
You don't remember Pogba being injured for months?good post and i agree we didn’t build well around him but Matic and Fred were signed for another 90 plus million to help him. Bruno signed for another 60 something to most likely replace him. So that’s 150/60 plus the 90 for Pogba and we still don’t have a settled midfield. Something doesn’t add up. We also added lukaku when they were mates for 80 million. That’s over 300 million based on building around or replacing one player while we struggled to make top 4.
What more can we actually do? What else do fans need to see? We tried to build around Pogba- didn’t work, in fact before Bruno came were some of the darkest days as a fan in my lifetime. We looked in free fall miles off getting back all with the most expensive midfielder in the world in our ranks. We replace him and it actually works out really well but now we still have to shoehorn him in and give him a massive new deal for the pleasure?
It didn’t work all that well with lukaku in the CL but it did work with Zlatan in the EL. It’s not great as one of your main tactics at the highest level and you definitely need to do your defensive work against better teams. I thought everyone hated how we played under Jose and he’s a big part of the problem with our perception of Pogba Look if we can buy a dm and that’s the final piece and get a consistent and fired up Pogba then we are actually laughing. The Pogba in the cup against Liverpool. Or away to City a few years ago. I just think we’ve signed all sorts of players around him and nothing has really worked enough to even compete for anything of note. Are Pogba and Mino ever going to change? Are the glazers ever going to build this magical team around him? I just don’t think so anymore.He is very important and would need replacing. So with how things are now I'd much rather keep him so we can focus our efforts on 1 or 2 players that will improve us.
We would never get a CF, CB and a Pogba replacement in one window, but we might get a CB and CF if we know Pogba is staying.
Pogba playing the ball over to Haaland will be a thing of beauty.
Keep Pogba, Sign Haaland. Win the league.
ya I do but he was poor before that (and publicly trying to leave) and then he came in again at the end of last season on the coat tails of Bruno arriving and he was all enthusiasm and quotes in the media and he played ok.1 goal and 1 assist I think but I didn’t check. I know for sure he cost us defensively. He was out of the team again by the start of this season with VDB signed and it didn’t look like he’d be sticking around much longer. He’s been good again recently as far as goals go but I’m not sure about the effect his style has on the way we play.You don't remember Pogba being injured for months?
Yeah, that's why I said for Covid/whatever reason, I am not denying that, he's had his problems. Just stating the fact that we were in race title(if we ever were tbf) long before his period of few good games started. Two or three goals were enough for people here to start saying that we are out of title race because he is injured, when that is clearly not true, because you cannot get away from the fact that our win record with him this year is pretty average.He wasn't fit for most of the start of the season, that much was obvious. Covid and no pre season hit him hard.
Once he found full fitness he started making a big difference again.
I feel like This gets said every year for the last 5 years and every year we are bounced out of Europe and end the season with no trophies. Just false promises. And I would argue that 1 or 2 additions will not make us into a top team. Look how we falled apart the second he was injured but somehow you're supposed to believe that 1 or 2 additions will solve everything.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Given how our title challenge basically withered away as soon as he went down, I wouldn't be against it at all.
We're a much much stronger and consistent side with him in it. Building on the spine we have with 1 or 2 more additions makes me believe we'd have the necessary squad to compete on all fronts
Another lie. He started the season in the team.ya I do but he was poor before that and then he came in again at the end of last season on the coat tails of Bruno arriving and he was all enthusiasm and quotes in the media and he played ok.1 goal and 1 assist I think but I didn’t check. I know for sure he cost us defensively. He was out of the team again by the start of this season with VDB signed and it didn’t look like he’d be sticking around much longer. He’s been good again recently as far as goals go but I’m not sure about the effect his style has on the way we play.
What point would you mark as the start of his ‘few good games’ - and where were we in the league at the time?Yeah, that's why I said for Covid/whatever reason, I am not denying that, he's had his problems. Just stating the fact that we were in race title(if we ever were tbf) long before his period of few good games started. Two or three goals were enough for people here to start saying that we are out of title race because he is injured, when that is clearly not true, because you cannot get away from the fact that our win record with him this year is pretty average.
It's because we haven't invested well or at all in the areas of need...I feel like This gets said every year for the last 5 years and every year we are bounced out of Europe and end the season with no trophies. Just false promises. And I would argue that 1 or 2 additions will not make us into a top team. Look how we falled apart the second he was injured but somehow you're supposed to believe that 1 or 2 additions will solve everything.
If he is serious about winning trophies again he should cut ties with this club. He isn't Winning anything meaningful with the current manager and institution
Not sure that's all really relevent. Pogba can pick a pass and having a striker as good as Haaland on the end of it is going to be great whichever way you look at it.It didn’t work all that well with lukaku in the CL but it did work with Zlatan in the EL. It’s not great as one of your main tactics at the highest level and you definitely need to do your defensive work against better teams. I thought everyone hated how we played under Jose and he’s a big part of the problem with our perception of Pogba Look if we can buy a dm and that’s the final piece and get a consistent and fired up Pogba then we are actually laughing. The Pogba in the cup against Liverpool. Or away to City a few years ago. I just think we’ve signed all sorts of players around him and nothing has really worked enough to even compete for anything of note. Are Pogba and Mino ever going to change? Are the glazers ever going to build this magical team around him? I just don’t think so anymore.
and vice versaI feel like This gets said every year for the last 5 years and every year we are bounced out of Europe and end the season with no trophies. Just false promises. And I would argue that 1 or 2 additions will not make us into a top team. Look how we falled apart the second he was injured but somehow you're supposed to believe that 1 or 2 additions will solve everything.
If he is serious about winning trophies again he should cut ties with this club. He isn't Winning anything meaningful with the current manager and institution
Player of the month for the first time since April 2018? Is that made up? Not exactly world class at all.Another lie. He started the season in the team.
This post is again full of made up stuff. He literally played just a handful of games before he got injured. He was very good against Chelsea, he ran the show against Wolves too, and was good against Palace. Because nobody other than me bothers to go over these details in your post, you will just say ‘yea but he was poor before then’ and as it was so long ago, people just go with it.
He then came back for two games in December in which he was very good, before his injury reoccurred. Him coming back ‘on the coattails of Bruno arriving’ - what does that even mean? He was simply injured, and them recovered. Just like Rashford did during the same period.
Moving on, he wasn’t ‘ok’ - he played well after lockdown, it’s okay to say. He turned the game against Spurs, and then was very good against Sheff, Bournemouth, Brighton, Villa and then tailed off for a couple of league games against West Ham and Southampton. The same as Bruno, although you all concluded he was tired and moved on. He then returned to form in the EL against Copenhagen and Sevilla - again, being very good.
‘Then VDB came and he was out of the team at the start of the season’ - didn’t happen. And since then, ‘he’s been good in terms of goals’ but basically hasn’t played well? Despite being our player of the month?
Come on man! Like, come on Ali! It’s getting a little ridiculous now, surely?
