People who call for Jose's head, what/who they want?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Yeah, no. I dont think so!
With the same logic, Poch has not won anything with Spurs, and he has been there almost 4 years.
This is absolute nonsense. If the money was all that matters and not the football then why did we get rid of Moyes or LVG when our financials were on an upward trend. There aren't hundreds of SAF clones out there who can bring attacking football and wins. Mourinho for sure has his problems but we have been improving season on season. We're second place in the league to a pretty dominant City team. We've had a few dud matches for sure but overall we're improving and when Sanchez properly beds in we should hopefully be more ruthless in attack.
As long as I blame our defenders but also our attackers can not get away with it after missing some of the easiest chances due to panic or self confidence or what ever. That's why mainly I blame the players, let alone that weird behavior from Pogba.
So if I understand your logic, people must pay a lot of money for season tickets, to not be entertained and maybe win some form of silverware at the end of a season, just to be taken on an exciting roller-coaster ride during transfer windows. The club paying way over the odds for players which somehow don't reach the heights or level of play they produced at their previous clubs and then watching other teams playing entertaining football with a third of the funds Utd have at their disposal, and for all of that we must all be very appreciative and happy. Serious?
No you don’t get it. The players might be all crap when they play for us, but we have fun when we sign them! Don’t you see that’s the real reason to support a football team. We’ve actually won the transfer window a few years in a row now.
We can call his head all we want but the reality is that our club holds on to managers till the point it is possible to get a top 4/CL position. The past two were let go only when:
(1) it was mathematically impossible to get a top 4 spot
(2) we couldn't get a top 4 position in the league and only held on because we had an FA cup final to play.
So, he is not going anywhere until he keeps getting us into the next season's champions league. Our best hope is if PSG really want him (Think they never did and the rumors were only a ploy from his agent to get a better contract and extension) and our worst case scenario is that he fails to get us in the champions league, which given our current form and 4 of the last 11 games against top 6 teams is a distinct possibility now.
Now that we got that out of the way, it's kind of irritating reading people believing that this is a special club which needs a special manager to manage us. Chelsea have constantly changed managers and have won stuff. City have changed managers, played good football and won stuff. Barcelona have survived and won plenty after messiah Pep couldn't handle the stress. Real have won back to back champions league trophies with Zidane. Managers can come and go, what this club has lacked is an identity post Sir Alex's retirement. I appreciate and commend the club's current executives for the commercial success that they have been able to extract out of Fergie's genius. He took care of the footballing side and they were able to sell that to the maximum around the world. Our revenues are top of the league and it's wonderful to be in that position. All kudos to them. But the club has been seriously lacking on the footballing side. I can't claim to know of much that goes on behind the scenes but from the outside it doesn't seem like there is a concerted effort to develop a footballing philosophy at the club which can make the transition from one manager to the next easier. The recruiting has been so haphazard that even after spending more than half a billion pounds people still think, and not wrongly, that we need more players before can challenge. For every player we buy, he needs a new friend to get the best out of him. Pogba needs another solid midfielder before he can perform, Mkhi needed better players to perform, Lukaku is played as a target man when he clearly is not a target man, Jose needs an attacking coach....it goes on.
The club execs should stop looking for the next Sir Alex, a permanency on the managerial side that makes their life easier, by giving novices 6 year contracts or by handing contract extensions to managers only doing a half decent job, and instead should try developing a permanent football structure at this club. Managers should join to fit in with the club's football philosophy rather than the club going out of the way to appease them.
Until that happens, I am afraid the next manager is going to suffer the same fate and we are going to keep bleeding money on managerial firings and quick player turnarounds.
(1) it was mathematically impossible to get a top 4 spot
(2) we couldn't get a top 4 position in the league and only held on because we had an FA cup final to play.
So, he is not going anywhere until he keeps getting us into the next season's champions league. Our best hope is if PSG really want him (Think they never did and the rumors were only a ploy from his agent to get a better contract and extension) and our worst case scenario is that he fails to get us in the champions league, which given our current form and 4 of the last 11 games against top 6 teams is a distinct possibility now.
Now that we got that out of the way, it's kind of irritating reading people believing that this is a special club which needs a special manager to manage us. Chelsea have constantly changed managers and have won stuff. City have changed managers, played good football and won stuff. Barcelona have survived and won plenty after messiah Pep couldn't handle the stress. Real have won back to back champions league trophies with Zidane. Managers can come and go, what this club has lacked is an identity post Sir Alex's retirement. I appreciate and commend the club's current executives for the commercial success that they have been able to extract out of Fergie's genius. He took care of the footballing side and they were able to sell that to the maximum around the world. Our revenues are top of the league and it's wonderful to be in that position. All kudos to them. But the club has been seriously lacking on the footballing side. I can't claim to know of much that goes on behind the scenes but from the outside it doesn't seem like there is a concerted effort to develop a footballing philosophy at the club which can make the transition from one manager to the next easier. The recruiting has been so haphazard that even after spending more than half a billion pounds people still think, and not wrongly, that we need more players before can challenge. For every player we buy, he needs a new friend to get the best out of him. Pogba needs another solid midfielder before he can perform, Mkhi needed better players to perform, Lukaku is played as a target man when he clearly is not a target man, Jose needs an attacking coach....it goes on.
The club execs should stop looking for the next Sir Alex, a permanency on the managerial side that makes their life easier, by giving novices 6 year contracts or by handing contract extensions to managers only doing a half decent job, and instead should try developing a permanent football structure at this club. Managers should join to fit in with the club's football philosophy rather than the club going out of the way to appease them.
Until that happens, I am afraid the next manager is going to suffer the same fate and we are going to keep bleeding money on managerial firings and quick player turnarounds.
How much millions would those young talented coaches you mention need?
Literally cant see who would replace Mourinho at this moment, the next wave of top managers is not ready yet and the very best ones are already taken. United should (and will) not take any risks in the appointment of the next manager. It has to be someone who's won trophies at the highest level. That being said I think Mourinho should be given this season and the next before his position is considered.
The one problem, that I have with these conversations is that a part of the participants seem to not realize that Moyes, LVG and Mourinho weren't experiments, they were supposed to be safe picks because of their known history. So it's weird to read things like "it's not time to experiment anymore" or "We need someone with a track record". That's nonsensical and only exists in football, in every other sports you want someone that is good/talented and that's it, there is too many parameters that can prevent a club from being successful, one of them being in competition with richer clubs that have more experienced players and deeper squads.
So, if I understand your logic, every fan should only buy season ticket if we win silverware, not to support their beloved team through good and bad times. Fickle fans everywhere.
Same goes for agenda driven posters when we lose. Hell they cry even when we win.
Completely agree with this , but if Mourinho gets top 3 in the league then I would still prefer to give him a go for next season and allow him to rebuild and restructure the squad because we still have unbalanced squad and few passengers who need shipping out and allow him to stabilise the club giving next manager greater chance of success .
Poch.
Before the "he hasn't won't anything" argument comes in, would like to remind you that Spurs were never favorites for any trophy they compete in. And let's not forget the budget Spurs is operating at.
The reason I want Poch is because:
1. He isn't a short term plan. He genuinely would stay at United for the long term. I mean, look at how stingy Levy is and the man still stayed.
2. He actually is ruthless and coaches an attack. Do you think he would tolerate the nonsense our players are doing right now?
Before the "he hasn't won't anything" argument comes in, would like to remind you that Spurs were never favorites for any trophy they compete in. And let's not forget the budget Spurs is operating at.
The reason I want Poch is because:
1. He isn't a short term plan. He genuinely would stay at United for the long term. I mean, look at how stingy Levy is and the man still stayed.
2. He actually is ruthless and coaches an attack. Do you think he would tolerate the nonsense our players are doing right now?
I won't ask for his head but Mourinho has been given enough money to build a balanced first XIV, he just chose to spend the money differently, that's partially on him.
If he is given the extra time and I don't see why not, he has to be ruthless. Get rid of the last of the SAF players and the like of Fellaini, Blind and Darmian. Start again. Get Shaw into the side. Get another top class attacking rightback, who actually has an end product. Either a ball playing CB, if he think Bailly is too much of an injury risk, or an enforcer to play next to Bailly. Another midfielder to help Matic, although I am not overly thrilled with Matic. That could be down to overwork. It could help Pogba or if he is going to constantly sulk, get rid while he still has top value. We need to have players who will play the ball quicker and keep the game at a good pace. We have too many who are either too slow or too slow thinking. Apart from that we are fine.
Poch isn't leaving Spurs to come to United anytime soon. Utter delusion to think otherwise.
Personally, I think the ideal replacement for Mourinho is Joachim Low, but failing that I'd be incredibly comfortable with giving Nagelsmann a chance and if not him then Sarri.
Sadly the new contract means that the only way we see the back of the broken one is if he fall out of the top 4 by the time the season ends.
Personally, I think the ideal replacement for Mourinho is Joachim Low, but failing that I'd be incredibly comfortable with giving Nagelsmann a chance and if not him then Sarri.
Sadly the new contract means that the only way we see the back of the broken one is if he fall out of the top 4 by the time the season ends.
I think it is Levy who will prevent Poch from winning things. There is always a risk players will leave for better money. That will constantly disrupt the side.
Tuchel
Because his football is modern. Flexible and perfect for our upcomming talents like Gomes Fosumensah and Chong.
Because his football is modern. Flexible and perfect for our upcomming talents like Gomes Fosumensah and Chong.
Agree with this. Next manager (if Jose goes) should be someone young and with fresh ideas. Someone who is capable of showing this team how to press and play with higher tempo. someone who takes attack to the opposition rather than worrying too much about opposition and how to stop them.
I trust Jose. The man still has a lot to do, let him continue clearing out the dead wood and bring in another 2-3 players he likes to work with like he did in a season and a half, we still have some big weaknesses in the squad, we still need a CB who can build the attack alongside a fit Bailly, we need a midfielder too and that's pretty much obvious also a full back. Jose realizes that surely and he has to continue building a real strong side which he can. Jose said he will leave a real strong squad for the manager coming after him and I can see that.
Apart from Barca, Bayern, Real and City who are these successful teams that play entertaining football, win trophies and you would be happy paying to see? Although they also pay over the odds for their players so by your logic they also cannot be included in the discussion.
Literally the only club I can think of that currently fits your idealistic view on a football club might be Juventus?
I agree for the most part, but I do think the appointment of Moyes was most definitely an experiment given his distinct lack of credentials for such a high profile job. Quite why Fergie and the board believed Moyes would make for a seemless transition is beyond my understanding, but his resounding failure led the club to take a more secure route with the follow up appointments of LVG (a manager known for bringing stability to a club before all else) and Jose (one of the modern games most successful managers). To little to late though, the ramifications of the Moyes debacle still resonates to the current day, making the job that much more difficult for his successors.
If Jose cannot bring the club success and he gets the sack at the end of the season, then I really have no clue which direction the club can or will take from there. Any manager we recruit at this point will be an experiment and a risky one at that.
Poch.
People would say he didn't won anything yet. But his commitment on youth is absolutely better than Mourinho. Also, I believe he would be a top manager who can win the league against Pep with bigger investment to support him.
He knows Premier league, Fergie rated him high, scouses hate him. Perfect manager for Manchester United.
People would say he didn't won anything yet. But his commitment on youth is absolutely better than Mourinho. Also, I believe he would be a top manager who can win the league against Pep with bigger investment to support him.
He knows Premier league, Fergie rated him high, scouses hate him. Perfect manager for Manchester United.
Mourinho should done better with the money we have spent maybe he could have spread the money a bit and addressed greater areas of squad like our fullback positions and non existent right side of the attack but we can't change that and only hope that he doesn't neglect those in summer if he is still here and creates better balanced squad to compete and for his successor when he eventually goes so that our next manager can hit the ground running without worrying about big overhaul again .
He needs to more ruthless and decisive if he wants to succeed here , we might be only top Club who have five senior CB's with every one of them having question mark against them ship any two of Rojo , Jones or Smalling and get better quality and promote somebody from academy for greater depth.If he is given the extra time and I don't see why not, he has to be ruthless. Get rid of the last of the SAF players and the like of Fellaini, Blind and Darmian. Start again. Get Shaw into the side. Get another top class attacking rightback, who actually has an end product. Either a ball playing CB, if he think Bailly is too much of an injury risk, or an enforcer to play next to Bailly. Another midfielder to help Matic, although I am not overly thrilled with Matic. That could be down to overwork. It could help Pogba or if he is going to constantly sulk, get rid while he still has top value. We need to have players who will play the ball quicker and keep the game at a good pace. We have too many who are either too slow or too slow thinking. Apart from that we are fine.
Blind and Darmian should have been let go this season only we hardly use them and they won't be missed. Release Fellaini , Young also in summer and get better players . Agreed Shaw needs a chance to establish himself but get someone competent to compete with him .Valencia is simply not good enough and should not be a starter , it would require a big over haul but if we truly want to be a Elite side it needs to be done.
He's an excellent coach, but there seems to be two opinions - one that he's amazing, and one that he's overrated - the reality is likely somewhere in between!
He's a coach obsessed with details, and with structuring every play on the training pitch, the work goes in there with little left to chance. At Dortmund I would say he got a lot right in his first season we played fantastic football for especially the first two thirds of it, before going rather off the boil at the business end of it. But that excellent football didn't really carry on to the 2nd season which is why I say he is somewhere in between 'amazing and overrated'! In the second season there where many questions and frustrations, but a lot of that came from him changing formations constantly (not unusual for it to happen 2 or 3 times during a game) trying to find an answer. But I think at least it's better to be trying than not to try. Even though as a fan it was often frustrating to watch.
We are not going to wrestle the PL title from Pep's City doing whatever it is we're currently doing with majority of these players we have. How some of you have decided there's no manager out there to win us stuff so we should just stick with Mourinho to keep playing this dire football with no guarantees of winning stuff either is what I don't understand
Moyes wasn't really an experiment, he has been appointed on the back of the fabled "PL experience", then LVG was appointed based on his historical(read ancient) success and then Mourinho got appointed for the same reason LVG got the job. For me there are two flaws in that strategy first, none of them were appointed when they were on the high in club football and none of them are young and enthusiastic, none of them got the job when they had to build their own history, they have too much baggage.
Now, I do understand the logic behind these appointments but I don't agree with it, I'm not used to this type of logic in sport and I don't really have memory of them being successful.
You mean it's the players and the manager too?
Yes that's true as well. Because we had scored more than the last 4 seasons wasn't going to mention that and put it down to a one off. Pogba is obviously injured and mourinho needs to drop him until fit
Of course unless, you feel Smalling being unable to pass forward, jump without climbing an opponent or Valencia being useless in attack is Jose's fault. The manager is to blame for a lot of things but there are players in this club who are just plain average
Our play is so fragmented and yesterday reminded me a bit of play under LVG maybe with better players. It's been almost 2 years and we don't see any remarkable improvement in the style of play. Our players still play hoofball, still invite pressure at crucial moments by backing off too much, there's no fluid passing, no attacking patterns, we just go out there and make shit up each matchday. Sometimes it stick, sometimes it doesn't.
If the best man(accoring to many) for the job can't fix something that is fundemental, we are doomed.
If the best man(accoring to many) for the job can't fix something that is fundemental, we are doomed.
I don't get people talking about a title challenge next year! We look a million miles from that at the moment. A total lack of structure, drive and determination which would all be needed in spades to have a chance. Bloody Liverpool look more likely to challenge at the moment than we do.
I just don't get people talking about a title challenge next year! We look a million miles from that at the moment and are going backwards at the moment. Theres a total lack of team structure, understanding, organisation, drive and passion which would all be needed in spades to even have a chance. Bloody Liverpool look more likely to mount a title challenge at the moment than we do. If thats not the managers fault i don't know who's it is..
Pochettino !
This tripped me out. For a second I thought you were proving his post wrong with another, almost identical post of his.
Amen brother
I'm not one of those yet, but if I had to pick someone I would go for Ancelotti. He's won a lot of silverware, always gets his teams playing attacking football and is available. As an outside choice, I would go for Klopp. I know many on here love to hate/criticize him and that's understandable I guess, but his style of football would undoubtedly be a hit at Old Trafford. Granted he hasn't won anything since joining Liverpool, but you can't really blame him for that. Apart from a few class attacking players, he's got shite to work with. I just think with with our squad and the club's budget he could build a very scary team.
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