Arsenal - 2019/20 Letter Writing champions
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
When a letter holds enough value to rile up a state bankrolled "club" and their millions (lol) of fans. Proud of that achievement.
So basically no answer to the bolded part. Only Arsenal and their fans can throw around unfounded accusations...
Again confirmation of what? You could at least back it up. Confirmation that we'll call out hypocrisy and we aren't going to let footballs original cheats take shots at us and call us cheaters when we've been judged not guilty.
Anyway enjoy the FA Cup final.
Yes! Pep is leading this band of underdog radical rebels to break down the oppressive structures of footballs tyrannical regime!! Just look at his relaxed wardrobe on match day if you need proof.
They are the heroes in all of this! Let’s get behind them as they break down the walls of oppression and build a better footballing world for all of us!
They are the heroes in all of this! Let’s get behind them as they break down the walls of oppression and build a better footballing world for all of us!
Weird you feel that way when not even City fans do. But each to his own I guess.
I actually have a lot of sympathy for the supporters and I have no qualms about the owners using private cash. They have every right to.
I just think it’s absurd to suggest it was all done above board just because you have escaped punishment. Forgive and forget and all that, but there is no way that figures haven’t been manipulated to get things going at the very least. City are not the victims here. Sponsorship was absurd early doors and Mancini himself admitted extra salaries.
In any case, Guardiola has failed big time this season. You have to be judged on the resources available to you and his have been vast.
All that spending £300 million in the summer will do is amp up the pressure. If he does spend that much, is winning the league while blowing Watford and Brighton away really that impressive?
I don’t think it is, and it doesn’t add anything to his legacy. If he fails after that? It doesn’t bear thinking about.
No one believes that we are completely above board. Not anyone I know anyway. My point is, its hypocritical when people are like "City are the biggest cheats ever," without knowing how much their own shit stinks.
Does that make City right? Nope. What I personally believe and what the CAS judged are very different too. But for whatever reason we are not guilty so people saying they are "certainly guilty" etc.. is unfair and City fans are right to refute that. Probably guilty.. absolutely.
I was delighted to see Pep, hit back, we've taken shit off Wenger and Arsenal for 10 years, so now he's got the verdict on side why wouldn't he.
I agree on this season, I've actually torn him apart on the last page for his failings this term.
The pen is mightier than the sword.
In fairness they have Kolasnic and I'm pretty sure he'd beat our entire squad in a fight too.
I saw your post about him a page back and it was a very good one. Like I said, as far as this CAS situation goes, it’s a very tough position for City fans to be in.
I personally think that hitting back just serves to fuel the fire and, if he is not careful, he will end up setting up the club as the villains.
Ferguson was happy enough to take on that role at United, so might Pep be. But setting yourselves up as the target brings its own special pressure. I have a few Arsenal supporting mates and they were delighted with a win against the big money side in the league. There was no doubt how much the Arsenal players were up for that match.
He is playing a dangerous game now and a big spending summer will set himself up for an all or nothing season. Opening those massive purse strings just adds more pressure. Opening his mouth will just serve to put a target on his back.
I get that you're a very passionate fan and that you went through a long period of being irrelevant. You want/need to feel vindicated but at the end of the day you just know that you got where you are 10 times faster than anything remotely possible for everybody else by cheating 10 times harder.
If UEFA wasn't so incompetent and stupid, this 5 year period would not be part of a rule that is supposed to safeguard the financial security of clubs and the game. You can disagree with a lot or all of its purpose,intent etc... But the bottom line is everybody wants to win and try to maximize the possibilities to do so. Manchester City (like PSG and to some extent Chelsea)did not, they fully cheated the system. These are not unfounded accusations, they're the truth. Everyone knows it, you included. That you got off on a technicality doesn't change that and never will.
You are delighted he fought back with wonky arguments ? You can be a fan and feel uneasy when somebody from City spouts absolute sh*te. You'd hope that 10 years of justified "shit taking from Wenger" would make you think twice. The fact that you still think he's got "verdict on his side" is weird. He should feel humbled and avoid the topic, especially when he's about to unleash another spending spree. I don't understand why your allegiance to City trumps your personnal belief.
Back to the original point, Pep is a massive hypocritical weirdo. Previous City managers benefited from the same system (albeit in a less ridiculous scale) and you didn't hear them screaming conspiracy theories in every interview. Isn't there anyone else more relevant to comment on this than the manager ?
If UEFA wasn't so incompetent and stupid, this 5 year period would not be part of a rule that is supposed to safeguard the financial security of clubs and the game. You can disagree with a lot or all of its purpose,intent etc... But the bottom line is everybody wants to win and try to maximize the possibilities to do so. Manchester City (like PSG and to some extent Chelsea)did not, they fully cheated the system. These are not unfounded accusations, they're the truth. Everyone knows it, you included. That you got off on a technicality doesn't change that and never will.
You are delighted he fought back with wonky arguments ? You can be a fan and feel uneasy when somebody from City spouts absolute sh*te. You'd hope that 10 years of justified "shit taking from Wenger" would make you think twice. The fact that you still think he's got "verdict on his side" is weird. He should feel humbled and avoid the topic, especially when he's about to unleash another spending spree. I don't understand why your allegiance to City trumps your personnal belief.
Back to the original point, Pep is a massive hypocritical weirdo. Previous City managers benefited from the same system (albeit in a less ridiculous scale) and you didn't hear them screaming conspiracy theories in every interview. Isn't there anyone else more relevant to comment on this than the manager ?
Your club really has declined hasn’t it, you used to be proud of winning trophies now it’s proud of riling up a team that actually does
Hasn't the Court of Arbitration for support proven Wenger is unjustified. Also we have no clue what was time barred and what wasn't. First the argument was they'll get illegally obtained emails dismissed, a technicality. But we didn't, we simply beat them in court. Now its time barred and again, you guys have no clue, nor do I.
We also have no clue how the verdict on those time barred charges would have went. To suggest anything else is unfair and simply making things up. Arsenal are a football club, they should be more professional then writing to CAS on a decision and case they had no clue about. What wonky argument did Pep make? He simply said he has no respect for you and rightly so.
If someone spent 10 years calling you a thief, it went to court and you were found not guilty. Would you not say "That guy was full of shite and a liar". Would you respect the person who said those things?
Pep didn't even say that, just said "I have no respect for them".
Tell me why anyone whose anything to do with City should respect Arsenal? (off the pitch)
Why should we respect a club who went crying to the rest of the league to get a letter to have any ban delayed etc.. when they had no clue or idea on the case? So they could worm their way into the Uefa cup at best. Nah feck that.
He didn't scream conspiracy theories, the letter is a fact, singed by Liverpool, United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Wolves, Leicester and Burnley. It's not a conspiracy, you did it and your club were the ones pushing it/behind it.
You are still sitting there spouting on charges you don't know nor understand. How do you or anyone know what charges were dismissed or time barred and whether we were guilty of breaching said time barred charges? You don't, nor did your club.
Right now all we have is: MANCHESTER CITY FC DID NOT DISGUISE EQUITY FUNDING AS SPONSORSHIP CONTRIBUTIONS BUT DID FAIL TO COOPERATE WITH THE UEFA AUTHORITIES
People can stamp and bang their feet all they like but right now, all the shit Arsenal threw at us was unjustified, why should we take it lying down?
Who were the 8 clubs?
It does and given Pep's mind game record I don't think its something he should be doing. Mourinho nearly broke him, but really all he said is "I don't respect them off the pitch". Nothing less, nothing more. A much smaller and dare I say more respectful dig at a club who have taken shots for 10 years and tried to use their clubs status along with bringing in others to wade in on a case that was a, none of their business and b, they didn't know the ins and outs of.
Can you imagine what Sir Alex would have done on the back of something like that? We both know it would have been a darn sight harsher than saying "I respect them on the pitch but not off it".
I just find it hypocritical, especially given their history Arsenal of all clubs are the ones behind this and then spitting the dummy out about a minor comment like that.
I mean which is really a worse thing to do.
a; Write a letter trying to punish a club on a case you know nothing about whilst also pounding a media message of how corrupt they are without knowing the ins and outs.
b; saying "I don't respect them off the pitch"
I think the attitude at City is when we tried to be quiet and say nothing, clubs spouted this shit non-stop anyway. Now we have the verdict, why not stand up for ourselves. No other clubs opinion is going to change, they'll still say what they say. Why bend over and take it.. Playing with fire for sure, but I'm glad someone at the club has finally shown some stones (other than John because he's shocking)
Liverpool, United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Wolves, Leicester and Burnley.
Sounds like whataboutism to me. No other club bar PSG has gone as far as City have in financial doping.
City are essentially a franchise, UAE FC at this point.
I thought Watford and Norwich were there too. United may be City's biggest rivals but strangely the club has hardly ever spoken against city (at least im the open)even when you were took over by the sheiks so i wouldn't be surprised if we are not one of the clubs. Klopp and Jose were much more vocal when the ban was overturned in comparison to Ole who just didn't say anything.
Actually taking inflation into account isn't Chelseas 05/06 season transfers still far beyond anything City have done if I recall correctly. And their spending as a whole too.
Where are we drawing the line? When are we drawing the line? Whats an acceptable level of financial doping? How far in history does one have to go before its acceptable and forgotten?
Now City have won the FFP and thats not the stick to beat them with, is it simply "They spent too much of money that wasn't their own". We can throw that logic at different clubs throughout different era's...
Would United have been able to build the juggernaut they did without early backing and a sugar daddy building Old Trafford? Just think of the advantage having a stadium like that gave at the time. Would Arsenal be the club they are now, without screwing Spurs out of their place in the 1st Division? Then having an unfair financial advantage with Highbury? The reality is every clubs shit stinks and I include Cities in that.
We're no better than any club but we're no worse either. The numbers are bigger because times have changed. Do I think Cities spending is fair? Do I feck, but football was never fair. Its the nature of the beast (sadly).
It was a pointless letter anyway, all it was doing was to plead with CAS to not allow City to try and delay the ban. City were determined to have the hearing done asap and would have resisted a delay themselves anyway. Which tells you something about the state of UEFA’s case.
FFP wasn't in place in 05/06 and that's why you can't file a case on Chelsea's spending.
All the clubs that you're mentioning became big organically (except Chelsea, whose process was accelerated by Roman buying them, but they were still a big club). And no one's questioning City's right to become a big club - you can focus on youth development, buying shrewdly, and so on to achieve all what you have done. Spurs almost pulled it off, Pool didn't spend a whole lot except on a couple of players to become what they are today.
Which is why City fans have no issue with Uniteds part in the letter, Well not no problem but lets be honest. We're banned, you're in. City would do the exact same. But in general United and funnily enough United fans have taken us winning the lottery a lot better than many other clubs. Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool being the most critical from club level. Bayern too but thats a different story. In general United keep themselves and their opinions to themselves. Jose had one or two shots when he was there but thats Jose. I mean Chelsea signed it too despite them becoming a top club exactly the same way. Looking out for no.1 is fine. 10 years of talking about City nonstop and then being so underhanded was never gonna sit well.
I hate to think of the meltdown if Pep had actually said something really antagonistic.
Why do you keep saying it’s none of Arsenal’s business? Of course it’s their business if a rival team is supposedly breaking rules in order to gain an advantage over them ( and the rest of the league).
Teams like Arsenal and Spurs have arguably suffered the most from City’s takeover.
But you've all just read we're not guilty of breaking FFP. So whats the difference between our spending and Chelsea's if we didn't?
Its not really. They might want to see us fail, thats cool, most teams do. But what right have they to try to ask CAS to do? Writing a letter on rule breaches they don't understand.
Imagine you were in court and someone who wanted your job wrote a letter saying "Hey, please put him in jail, I think he's guilty. If his case has to be delayed, please punish him anyway before you hear it". Then they get all offended when you say "I don't respect you for that."
I think with Pep, tactically he's a very thoughtful manager and is stereotyped like that in the way he talks: people think he really thinks deeply about his media briefings but I actually think he's says a lot on the fly without too much thought, allowing emotion to be in charge.
With Ferguson (and, actually, Mourinho a bit), he was a very "emotional" manager - he would make big decisions and completely alter the plan mid-match and was stereotyped (rightly) as quite fiery in the media, but a lot of thought went in to his rants. Rooney spoke in an (I hate that there are more than one
) autobiography about how Ferguson was very calm in the interview after a poor 0-0 draw with Sunderland in 2005/06 when we were trying to chase down Chelsea, but he absolutely tore the heads off the players in the dressing room.I think Ferguson picked and chose exactly what to say and how to say it, while Guardiola has his heart on his sleeve and says what he's thinking in the moment. Not saying one is better than the other at all, it's just how I think they manage(d) the media.
In terms of the media there is miles between Fergie and Pep. A chasm, I think even a hardcore City fan who hates him would say that. Pep as you said just rambles and throws out thoughts as they enter his head. Sir Alex was a different level, he genuinely played people like a violin. Thats why if he was where Pep was now, he wouldn't take it lying down and he would have absolutely torn probably all the clubs involved in the letter to absolute shreds.I think with Pep, tactically he's a very thoughtful manager and is stereotyped like that in the way he talks: people think he really thinks deeply about his media briefings but I actually think he's says a lot on the fly without too much thought, allowing emotion to be in charge.
With Ferguson (and, actually, Mourinho a bit), he was a very "emotional" manager - he would make big decisions and completely alter the plan mid-match and was stereotyped (rightly) as quite fiery in the media, but a lot of thought went in to his rants. Rooney spoke in an (I hate that there are more than one
I think Ferguson picked and chose exactly what to say and how to say it, while Guardiola has his heart on his sleeve and says what he's thinking in the moment. Not saying one is better than the other at all, it's just how I think they manage(d) the media.
Kind of why I'm shocked United fans on here are saying Pep is in the wrong with this. Was it Sir Alex there'd be carnage (and he'd likely come out on top).
There wouldn't be a journalist left alive
If you want to see the true pinnacle of his anger, you need to go back to before he managed us - here's a brilliant article from a great site, called Furious Fergie - gives exactly what it says on the tin haha.Uhm, the case was dismissed because it was older than 5 years, not because you were innocent
I would not say that if i was actively stealing for the past 10 years, no. I'd keep quiet and experience little redness in the facial area. Unless i'm a shitty person and have no shame whatsoever.
That's not even a dig, but I don't think anybody wants to be respected by City, to be honest. Nor should you want to be respected by Arsenal or anybody else. Pep is the only one who brought up this notion of respect. The only respect i want and every club should want is a respect for the rules. City do not care. 10M might be a stupidly low fine but the reason still means you actively blocked enquiries from a regulator.
I like to think that even if we were sitting in 17th, that letter would still have been sent. All these other clubs would have beneffited from your ban standing. Probably even more too. I'm sure Liverpool, United and Chelsea would have loved to be able to tell players they have CL for the next 2 years. What would we get, a pass for the qualification round of the EL ? Wow, great.
He's bringing this up, weeks after the verdict, having lost to Arsenal, coached by his ex-assistant. Surely there's a salty part to his remarks. He also compared his spending to Wenger, unprovoked, a few days (weeks ?) ago. Even you have to admit that this is beyond silly.
Is he coming to the rescue of the Sheikhs ? Are they making him do those declarations ? If Mancini managed to get paid in offshore accounts, i can't wait for football leaks v4.0 and understand why he's so keen to defend them.
You are right when you say that neither of us know for a fact that City did or did not commit these breaches. But, if i had to bet on everything i have, i know the choice i would make.
Uhm, no. Cas said and I repeat.
MANCHESTER CITY FC DID NOT DISGUISE EQUITY FUNDING AS SPONSORSHIP CONTRIBUTIONS BUT DID FAIL TO COOPERATE WITH THE UEFA AUTHORITIES - CAS words, not mine nor Cities.
That was the title of the ruling. Within the ruling there's this line " The CAS award emphasized that most of the alleged breaches reported by the Adjudicatory Chamber of the CFCB were either not established or time-barred ". Either ways, should the finer details come out, we'd know more
https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Media_Release_6785_Decision.pdf
Most of the few City fans I have met hold this view. Obviously not quite to the same extent but to s similar extent.
I agree with you that the letter was stupid but it's still clearly Arsenal's business.
As for your analogy, if someone at work wanted my job, and was supposedly breaking the rules in order to get ahead of me, then yeah I would definitely consider an investigation against them to be my business.
UEFA did not and could not prove any of the allegations they made (other than City’s lack of cooperation). Simple as that. I’d be confident in asserting that the details of the case, which may be released tomorrow, do not make any reference to UEFA having proven or established anything and they were only blocked because they were time-barred.
Yes and No. Would you interfere in the investigation by saying "I know nothing about this but..."
Not established means they couldn't establish there case. Time barred are some but yeah we won't know until the entire thing is published. But I think its fair to say CAS know more details than most. Whats time barred and whats not we don't know. The only thing we actually do know, is the ones CAS looked into City were innocent (in the eyes of CAS at least) including the ones with the leaked emails as evidence as its widely known they were used and refuted by City's team.
There is no way to have a definitive answer. If a company comes and says, “We will pay City £30 million a year for x service, but no more” and they are the highest bidder at that stage.
Then come along another company with supposed, but vague, connections to those in charge and say “we will pay £100 million a year for the same”. There is no way to prove anything, and I would bet that is what the investigation came down to.
I am sure sponsorships make more sense today than they did prior, but the system was obviously played to the extreme for City to be able to build quickly within set regulations.
Tenuous connections, inflated, but genuine sponsorships. Nothing can be proven, but I think it’s obvious that there has been a coordinated effort to get round the rules.
What each person makes of that is up to them.
Were the rules unfair? Possibly. Were they broken by City? Almost definitely, or they wouldn’t be where they are today. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise.
Then come along another company with supposed, but vague, connections to those in charge and say “we will pay £100 million a year for the same”. There is no way to prove anything, and I would bet that is what the investigation came down to.
I am sure sponsorships make more sense today than they did prior, but the system was obviously played to the extreme for City to be able to build quickly within set regulations.
Tenuous connections, inflated, but genuine sponsorships. Nothing can be proven, but I think it’s obvious that there has been a coordinated effort to get round the rules.
What each person makes of that is up to them.
Were the rules unfair? Possibly. Were they broken by City? Almost definitely, or they wouldn’t be where they are today. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise.
Can't refute any of that.
So more big spending this summer.
Besides Foden, has he actually bothered using any of the academy players? I remember before he was arriving how Pep always uses the academy.
Besides Foden, has he actually bothered using any of the academy players? I remember before he was arriving how Pep always uses the academy.