'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

[Dr. StrangeHate]

£800m spent and still no CL wins, but that doesn't matter because they get 70% possession in league games. City barely control games in Europe and haven't looked like winning it. If Mancini or Pellegrini stayed and spent £800m I am sure they would have won the domestic titles Pep has.

NO CL win since Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and co and has spent over £1 billion at City and Bayern combined.

I am sure Mancini or Pellegerini would have won titles with this city team as well. But the point is would they have been able to do this:
"The team set a number records during the season, including, most points (100), most away points (50), most wins (32), most away wins (16), most goals (106), best goal difference (+79) and most consecutive victories (18). The team also equalled the record for the earliest Premier League title win (five games to spare), beating every other team in the league throughout the season."
Above was making a mockery of the competitive PL. I doubt we will ever see something like that again.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

Not being able to get near them doesn't mean the football was beautiful. It was boring pass, pass, pass for 60% of every game. I prefer swashbuckling, fast, direct football, such as SAF's United in 2008 for example.

Beauty and entertainment are subjective judgements.

As a great philosopher once said “that’s just, like, your opinion man.”

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I am sure Mancini or Pellegerini would have won titles with this city team as well. But the point is would they have been able to do this:
"The team set a number records during the season, including, most points (100), most away points (50), most wins (32), most away wins (16), most goals (106), best goal difference (+79) and most consecutive victories (18). The team also equalled the record for the earliest Premier League title win (five games to spare), beating every other team in the league throughout the season."
Above was making a mockery of the competitive PL. I doubt we will ever see something like that again.

I forgot that you win trophies for breaking them types of records. £800m for a few domestic titles and some statistical records

Come on, £800m and no CL trophy is truly awful.

 

[padr81]

I forgot that you win trophies for breaking them types of records. £800m for a few domestic titles and some statistical records

Come on, £800m and no CL trophy is truly awful.

Somebodies jealous.

 

[Carl]

Somebodies jealous.

Pep is great, but his record in Europe really is shocking. Especially when you consider the quality he's had at City over the course of his stay. Bit of a weird one really, as we know his style works on the continent. Honestly feel like its in his head a bit, especially in those bigger European ties. I find he seems to sabotage himself with peculiar line ups, like he's really over thinking the whole thing.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Somebodies jealous.

Not in the slightest.

He plays great possession football and has done amazing with the domestic trophies. But let's be real for a minute, spending almost £1 billion on players and not winning the CL should be seen as failure. No way should it be justified to spend that kind of money and still be knocked out of the CL by Monaco, Spurs and Lyon, clubs that have spent less combined than what Pep has spent since joining City.

The money spent and no CL trophies is even worse when Pep already inherited Aguero, KDB, Silva, Sterling, Kompany and Fernandinho before spending such obscene amounts of money.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

Pep is great, but his record in Europe really is shocking. Especially when you consider the quality he's had at City over the course of his stay. Bit of a weird one really, as we know his style works on the continent. Honestly feel like its in his head a bit, especially in those bigger European ties. I find he seems to sabotage himself with peculiar line ups, like he's really over thinking the whole thing.

While it’s definitely true that his team selections and tactics have often been really weird in the knockout stages of the CL, the last few years have shown how much luck can have an influence in knock out football.

In 2018, when City were undoubtedly the best team in Europe, a Sané goal is given offside when a season later VAR would have allowed it.

The next year they miss a penalty in the away leg at Spurs and then Delph goes to sleep to gift Son a goal. Then in the return, Laporte makes more mistakes in ten minutes than he had in the previous 18 months to essentially kill the tie. City mount a comeback but then Spurs score a winner that comes off a hand (again, would have been disallowed a few months later) and have another goal disallowed for offside (this time by VAR).

Then last year Sterling misses one of the worst sitters you’ve ever seen and Lyon go up the other end and kill the match.

Combined with some of the other CL losses he faced (especially in 2010 with Bojan having a wonder goal to knock out Inter not given for I still don’t know what and 2012 when Messi missed a penalty in a year when everything he hit went in) it’s almost like he’s been cursed as some kind of revenge for the 2009 semi-final farce.

I still do think that sooner or later he will win another CL, making him the first manager ever to win the European Cup in three different decades which puts him back in the GOAT conversation.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Bayern fans supposedly mostly hated it

No we didn't.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

Guardiola teams usually score bucket loads of goals and play exciting front foot football. I never understand why people categorise them with the sterile domination Spain team of 2010 (except for sharing a lot of the same players I suppose).

 

[Karel Podolsky]

Not being able to get near them doesn't mean the football was beautiful. It was boring pass, pass, pass for 60% of every game. I prefer swashbuckling, fast, direct football, such as SAF's United in 2008 for example.

I too love fast direct football. City/Pep are responsible for pass, pass, pass football, but I think their opponents are responsible too.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

No we didn't.

Do you speak on behalf of the millions of Bayern fans?

Question, as manager of Bayern, not on managerial ability outside of managing Bayern, what order would you put the below 3 managers?

Heynckes, Flick, Pep?

 

[Summit]

Do you speak on behalf of the millions of Bayern fans?

Do you? How could you possibly know the thoughts of millions of Bayern fans?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I am sure Mancini or Pellegerini would have won titles with this city team as well. But the point is would they have been able to do this:
"The team set a number records during the season, including, most points (100), most away points (50), most wins (32), most away wins (16), most goals (106), best goal difference (+79) and most consecutive victories (18). The team also equalled the record for the earliest Premier League title win (five games to spare), beating every other team in the league throughout the season."
Above was making a mockery of the competitive PL. I doubt we will ever see something like that again.

Dodgy finances are making a mockery of the competitive PL.

 

[Acrobat7]

Do you speak on behalf of the millions of Bayern fans?

Question, as manager of Bayern, not on managerial ability outside of managing Bayern, what order would you put the below 3 managers?

Heynckes, Flick, Pep?

Pep - Heynckes - Flick

 

[footballistic orgasm]

Not in the slightest.

He plays great possession football and has done amazing with the domestic trophies. But let's be real for a minute, spending almost £1 billion on players and not winning the CL should be seen as failure. No way should it be justified to spend that kind of money and still be knocked out of the CL by Monaco, Spurs and Lyon, clubs that have spent less combined than what Pep has spent since joining City.

The money spent and no CL trophies is even worse when Pep already inherited Aguero, KDB, Silva, Sterling, Kompany and Fernandinho before spending such obscene amounts of money.

Why should it? It's not like less richer teams won the CL withing that period, other european giants won it.

And as for the players you say he inherited, only Aguero and KDB were top players in europe. Silva always went missing in big games especially in CL, Sterling wasn't doing very well at City and was nowhere near the player he has become understand Pep, Kompany was very injury prone and didn't even play much for Pep expect during his last season, and Fernandinho was a very good player but not the monster you're trying to say he was as a player.
You're are basically (and purposely) exagerating how individually talented the squad he took over was.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

Why should it? It's not like less richer teams won the CL withing that period, other european giants won it.

And as for the players you say he inherited, only Aguero and KDB were top players in europe. Silva always went missing in big games especially in CL, Sterling wasn't doing very well at City and was nowhere near the player he has become understand Pep, Kompany was very injury prone and didn't even play much for Pep expect during his last season, and Fernandinho was a very good player but not the monster you're trying to say he was as a player.
You're are basically (and purposely) exagerating how individually talented the squad he took over was.

De Bruyne wasn’t even a CM when Guardiola took over. It was seen as madness that he played Silva and KDB as double 8s.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Pep - Heynckes - Flick

I didn't ask you.

But would you really put Pep's stint at Bayern above 2 managers stints that seen them win league and CL?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Why should it? It's not like less richer teams won the CL withing that period, other european giants won it

Why should it? Because the more money spent means expectation of winning is higher, of cours eit matters.

Less rich teams? City are the richest club in the world, which makes every club less rich.

I can't now because I am busy but I can add up the cost of each squad when they won in it comparison to the City squad cost.

Liverpool spent less than half of what Pep has spent in the time he has been at City. Bayern squad cost about half as well.

Teams like Spurs and Lyon went further than City on a fraction of the spending.

 

[Acrobat7]

I didn't ask you.

But would you really put Pep's stint at Bayern above 2 managers stints that seen them win league and CL?

„I didn’t ask you.“
Who pissed into your coffee? You asked about Bayern’s managers and I as a Bayern supporter answered. No need to act as a wannabe internet tough guy.

Bayern’s football under Pep was the best I have ever seen them play and therefore, yes, I would put it above those of the other two managers. It is not my fault that you don’t agree with my answer.
Measuring the success only on CL achievements alone doesn’t cut it.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

„I didn’t ask you.“
Who pissed into your coffee? You asked about Bayern’s managers and I as a Bayern supporter answered. No need to act as a wannabe internet tough guy.

Bayern’s football under Pep was the best I have ever seen them play and therefore, yes, I would put it above those of the other two managers. It is not my fault that you don’t agree with my answer.
Measuring the success only on CL achievements alone doesn’t cut it.

So style of play is more important than winning trophies? Fair enough if the others style was like Mourinho but they played brilliant football under all 3 hence winning the CL does cut it because it is not the only measurement.

 

[Bwuk]

Pep regularly made ridiculous decisions in key CL matches and cost Bayern. The other 2 both won the CL.

 

[adexkola]

Pep regularly made ridiculous decisions in key CL matches and cost Bayern. The other 2 both won the CL.

Eh... Only in the first year against Madrid. Against Barcelona he had an injury depleted squad facing Neymar and Messi. Against Atletico, how do you account for Muller's missed pen?

Don't know enough about Flick. Heynekes lost the Bundesliga to Klopp, and the CL final against a very average Chelsea side on home ground and then used that energy to fuel a scorched earth campaign the following season against all incomers. I think it's ridiculous to rank managers based on CL success alone (otherwise Di Matteo is the greatest Chelsea manager).

 

[SER19]

No we didn't.

I don't think you speak for all of them, and nor did I. I probably shouldn't have said mostly, but certainly a large enough contingent for it to be commonly spoken about and reported on. I was just echoing several pieces I've read that suggested alot of bayern fans were fed up with the football under guardiola. Simply pointing out that different people have different aesthetic likes and dislikes about style of play

 

[Dansk]

I think it's ridiculous to rank managers based on CL success alone (otherwise Di Matteo is the greatest Chelsea manager).

Me too. Sometimes people put way too much emphasis on a part of the game that takes up 10% of a season, and they rarely take the circumstances into account. It's the same with Klopp where people heap unlimited praise on him for winning the CL, and they get hysterically angry if you point out that they had the absurd luck to play a final against Tottenham, which has to be the weakest team to reach a CL final in twenty years or so. CL success is very nice and certainly not something everyone can accomplish, but it isn't always proof of anything.

 

[RooneyLegend]

832m spent at City.

Sorry but give klopp that at Liverpool, solskjaer that at United, even ancelotti that at Everton. Having already had sterling de Bruyne Silva fernandinho and Aguero. I genuinely believe each would do as much as guardiola has at City. That list could go on too. All his success comes with that caveat

Lies and you know it. We've spent a mini fortune to be Europa regulars.

 

[RooneyLegend]

I am sure Mancini or Pellegerini would have won titles with this city team as well. But the point is would they have been able to do this:
"The team set a number records during the season, including, most points (100), most away points (50), most wins (32), most away wins (16), most goals (106), best goal difference (+79) and most consecutive victories (18). The team also equalled the record for the earliest Premier League title win (five games to spare), beating every other team in the league throughout the season."
Above was making a mockery of the competitive PL. I doubt we will ever see something like that again.

They had big money and didn't come close to achieving all that. Instead they were losing titles to the likes of the 'value' United and Leicester''s miracle team. Yeah, this little theory makes sense in people's minds but in reality it doesn't. Very few coaches in world football can get their sides to this level, no matter the resources.

 

[Zen86]

They had big money and didn't come close to achieving all that. Instead they were losing titles to the likes of the 'value' United and Leicester''s miracle team. Yeah, this little theory makes sense in people's minds but in reality it doesn't. Very few coaches in world football can get their sides to this level, no matter the resources.

Very few managers have consistently had as many resources in their career as Pep. In fact, I would say no manager has.

 

[DoneDaDa]

Very few managers have consistently had as many resources in their career as Pep. In fact, I would say no manager has.

And I wonder why that is?

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

They had big money and didn't come close to achieving all that. Instead they were losing titles to the likes of the 'value' United and Leicester''s miracle team. Yeah, this little theory makes sense in people's minds but in reality it doesn't. Very few coaches in world football can get their sides to this level, no matter the resources.

That is what I am saying. Mancini and Pellegrini could have won titles with City team but there isn't a coach that can replicate Pep's dominance in that 100 point season.

 

[Denis' cuff]

While it’s definitely true that his team selections and tactics have often been really weird in the knockout stages of the CL, the last few years have shown how much luck can have an influence in knock out football.

In 2018, when City were undoubtedly the best team in Europe, a Sané goal is given offside when a season later VAR would have allowed it.

The next year they miss a penalty in the away leg at Spurs and then Delph goes to sleep to gift Son a goal. Then in the return, Laporte makes more mistakes in ten minutes than he had in the previous 18 months to essentially kill the tie. City mount a comeback but then Spurs score a winner that comes off a hand (again, would have been disallowed a few months later) and have another goal disallowed for offside (this time by VAR).

Then last year Sterling misses one of the worst sitters you’ve ever seen and Lyon go up the other end and kill the match.

Combined with some of the other CL losses he faced (especially in 2010 with Bojan having a wonder goal to knock out Inter not given for I still don’t know what and 2012 when Messi missed a penalty in a year when everything he hit went in) it’s almost like he’s been cursed as some kind of revenge for the 2009 semi-final farce.

I still do think that sooner or later he will win another CL, making him the first manager ever to win the European Cup in three different decades which puts him back in the GOAT conversation.

cant be serious

you look at the hand he’s been dealt at all three clubs and he has still only won 2. Couldn’t even win with Bayern. Brian Clough won 2 on a shoestring.

Jose, Paisley and several more, and that is merely using the CL as a yardstick.

Hope the shithouses go out next round.

probably not top 10.

 

[Zen86]

And I wonder why that is?

Well, he had the benefit of starting his career with that Barcelona team. He’s been rather privileged with the clubs he’s gone to since. And yet, he’s been unable to win a CL without Messi, although I’m sure he’s been working on that one.

 

[DoneDaDa]

Well, he had the benefit of starting his career with that Barcelona team. He’s been rather privileged with the clubs he’s gone to since. And yet, he’s been unable to win a CL without Messi, although I’m sure he’s been working on that one.

Then why didn’t Zidane get this? When he left RM for the first time he had no good offers on his table. Pep could leave City this season without league or CL title yet he’d have too clubs waiting for him and some even would probably sack there manager for him. I don’t think he’s been privileged still due to his Barcelona team, but more to his work that isn’t being defined solely on his success in the CL.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

Brian Clough won 2 on a shoestring.

Jose, Paisley and several more, and that is merely using the CL as a yardstick.

Mourinho’s is very impressive, especially considering the teams he managed (though, again, both 2004 and 2010 took huge slices of luck because that’s how football works).

It’s not even worth comparing those old European Cup winners to the Champions League in my opinion. You could win the competition playing four-five knockout rounds, half of which would often be against diddy teams like Glentoran, Hibernians and Jeunesse Esch.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

Well, he had the benefit of starting his career with that Barcelona team. He’s been rather privileged with the clubs he’s gone to since. And yet, he’s been unable to win a CL without Messi, although I’m sure he’s been working on that one.

Lucky bastard managing to flukily build one of the greatest teams in football history.

 

[Morty_]

Then why didn’t Zidane get this? When he left RM for the first time he had no good offers on his table. Pep could leave City this season without league or CL title yet he’d have too clubs waiting for him and some even would probably sack there manager for him. I don’t think he’s been privileged still due to his Barcelona team, but more to his work that isn’t being defined solely on his success in the CL.

Because he took a break?
Pep didn't go straight from Barca to Bayern either, he also had a year off.

Zidane got his job back at RM, cant be much bigger than that(though we will see if he keeps it).

Pep is a better coach than Zidane, i give you that.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Very few managers have consistently had as many resources in their career as Pep. In fact, I would say no manager has.

No one could have predicted what happened at Barca and taking that credit away from him doesn't make sense. Those players who were amazing became just that under his tutelage. At Bayern I was personally never impressed by him. Felt he didn't improve them at all but then again they really couldn't improve from where he found them.

Now let's look at his city stint. A lot of what hes bought isn't players that would have you enviously looking at the transfers but he moulded them into an amazing team. Achieved domestic feats that haven't been seen in this league. On top of that

Are they rich? Obviously but they've been rich for quite some time. They didn't threaten these levels. Chelsea''s spending was unprecedented too when Roman first took over and they didn't scale these levels either.

You'd think out of all fans in the world we'd be the ones to recognise a great job being done despite resources cause we've seen a catalogue of managers pis away huge resources in order to establish us as a Europa club. I guess that's not the case.

 

[RUCK4444]

Lucky bastard managing to flukily build one of the greatest teams in football history.

There’s definitely a portion of luck involved though, he happened to have arguably the GOAT in Messi combined with the best midfield in history in Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.

Not to mention legends like Pique, Puyol

He plays a good style of football and absolutely deserves credit for getting the best from that team, they were special. The best team I’ve ever seen and probably the best club side in history, but he had some very good players to work with.

Rijkaard built that team and almost any manager would have done special things with that side. But I still give Pep respect for that period of success.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

There’s definitely a portion of luck involved though, he happened to have arguably the GOAT in Messi combined with the best midfield in history in Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.

Not to mention legends like Pique, Puyol

He plays a good style of football and absolutely deserves credit for getting the best from that team, they were special. The best team I’ve ever seen and probably the best club side in history, but he had some very good players to work with.

Rijkaard built that team and almost any manager would have done special things with that side. But I still give Pep respect for that period of success.

Pep signed Piqué and promoted Busquets to the first team (yes I know Rijkaard gave him a run out in a Copa del Rey match once as if that means anything). Messi went from scoring 16 in a season under Rijkaard, to 38 in his first year under Guardiola. Ronaldinho and Deco were discarded by Guardiola before his first season and Eto’o went the year after. The 2011 team which was the peak Pep side and was built almost entirely in his image.

 

[SER19]

Lies and you know it. We've spent a mini fortune to be Europa regulars.

This isn't the discussion or the point im making. I'm talking about individual managers at a single club. Why would di Maria and schneiderlin be relevant to a discussion about solskjaer who has spent 300m? And was 9th when took over with a near full squad overhaul needed.

This United spending failure gets trotted out even when not relevant.

 

[RUCK4444]

Pep signed Piqué and promoted Busquets to the first team (yes I know Rijkaard gave him a run out in a Copa del Rey match once as if that means anything). Messi went from scoring 16 in a season under Rijkaard, to 38 in his first year under Guardiola. Ronaldinho and Deco were discarded by Guardiola before his first season and Eto’o went the year after. The 2011 team which was the peak Pep side and was built almost entirely in his image.

The key players, pretty much the spine, of the 2011 team were still ones he inherited, they were also by a distance the best players in the squad.

Like I said he deserved credit, but by the same token we must acknowledge that side was destined for greatness.