Here is a thought I had during the game. When he was at Barca he got critiqued for not having a plan B, that Barca just had one approach and if that didn't work they were fecked. It seems since that time he is desperate to inovate and change tactics for every big game, but it keeps backfiring because his players don't adept well to all those tactical and rotational changes.
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
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Said something similar in the other thread. He's had the best team in all the leagues he's been in and, lo and behold, he's won those leagues! But when the skill level has levelled out somewhat in the Champions League, he's fecked it (without the, arguably, best player ever). So what's so special about him exactly...
Peps record in the Champions league since last winning it 10 years ago.
2011/12 - Barcelona manager, knocked out in the semi finals by Chelsea 3-2 on Agg. (Chelsea finished 6th in the PL and were managed by Di Matteo
2012/13 - took a season out from management
2013/14 - Bayern Munich manager, knocked out in the semi finals by Real Madrid 5-0 on Agg. (Real Madrid finished 3rd in La Liga and was managed by Carlo Ancelotti)
2014/15 - Bayern Munich manager, knocked out by Barcelona in the semi finals 5-3 on Agg (Barca won the La Liga that season managed by Luis Enrique)
2015/16 - Bayern Munich manager, knocked out in semi finals by Atletico Madrid on away goals 2-2 Agg (Atletico finished 3rd in La Liga managed by Diego Simone)
2016/17 - Man City manager, knocked out in the round of 16 by Monaco on away goals 6-6 on Agg. (Monaco french league winners managed by Leonardo Jardim)
2017/18 - Man City manager, knocked out in the Quarter finals by Liverpool 5-1 on Agg (Liverpool finished 4th in the PL managed by Klopp)
2018/19 - Man City manager, knocked out in the Quarter finals by Spurs on away goals 4-4 on Agg ( spurs finished 4th in PL managed by Pochettino.)
2019/20 - Man City manager, knocked out in the Quarter finals by Lyon 3-1 ( Lyon finished 7th in the French league managed by Rudi Jose Garcia)
2020/21 - Man City manager, 1-0 final loss to Chelsea (Chelsea finished 4th in the PL and managed by Tuchel.
2011/12 - Barcelona manager, knocked out in the semi finals by Chelsea 3-2 on Agg. (Chelsea finished 6th in the PL and were managed by Di Matteo
2012/13 - took a season out from management
2013/14 - Bayern Munich manager, knocked out in the semi finals by Real Madrid 5-0 on Agg. (Real Madrid finished 3rd in La Liga and was managed by Carlo Ancelotti)
2014/15 - Bayern Munich manager, knocked out by Barcelona in the semi finals 5-3 on Agg (Barca won the La Liga that season managed by Luis Enrique)
2015/16 - Bayern Munich manager, knocked out in semi finals by Atletico Madrid on away goals 2-2 Agg (Atletico finished 3rd in La Liga managed by Diego Simone)
2016/17 - Man City manager, knocked out in the round of 16 by Monaco on away goals 6-6 on Agg. (Monaco french league winners managed by Leonardo Jardim)
2017/18 - Man City manager, knocked out in the Quarter finals by Liverpool 5-1 on Agg (Liverpool finished 4th in the PL managed by Klopp)
2018/19 - Man City manager, knocked out in the Quarter finals by Spurs on away goals 4-4 on Agg ( spurs finished 4th in PL managed by Pochettino.)
2019/20 - Man City manager, knocked out in the Quarter finals by Lyon 3-1 ( Lyon finished 7th in the French league managed by Rudi Jose Garcia)
2020/21 - Man City manager, 1-0 final loss to Chelsea (Chelsea finished 4th in the PL and managed by Tuchel.
City fans, if you were offered a wife swap (Pep for Klopp) for the next three seasons would you accept?
No way would any sane LFC fan accepts that.
No way would any sane LFC fan accepts that.
I'm not a City supporter
Anyways...
City shat the bed in the final and Pep gets a lot of the blame for not getting his players in the optimal state of mind.
A lot of people will point to the lack of inclusion of Rodri/Fernandinho, but Fernandinho was awful in the FA Cup against Chelsea, and Rodri has made a couple of costly errors in the run-up to this game. Plus, the problem in this game was City's buildup, which Gundogan has excelled at from deep before.
Atypical of a City side, they didn't create many clear cut chances. Part of this was excellent Chelsea defending. Part of this was the inability of De Bruyne and Foden to step up. Long term I think City do need a competent focal point to "ask questions" in these type of games. Aguero is past it (calls for his inclusion were weird as he's hardly done anything all season) and Jesus is a better player further away from goal.
Don't buy the "Pep overthought it" narrative. The usual setup wouldn't have done much. Still, he gets the most blame for losing the match given they were favorites. Not a bad season from them, but they have some work to do.
Edit: oh, one more thing. I thought Chelsea's wins over City in the FA cup semifinals and in the league were outliers. They aren't. Chelsea will be a formidable team next season.
Och you'll have the pep fans out in force with this stuff.they gave me a right serve yesterday for daring to suggest he'd picked up the best squad and spent the most at city.
He hasn’t just failed today. He’s failed every time since he left Barcelona.
With arguably the strongest teams in the competition I might add. Spending over a billion in the process.
His achievements have made him overrated and bloated his ego. Great manager but the more time goes on the more his aura lessens.
He's a league manager. Simple as. You generally can't flat track bully your way through the CL.
He should probably avoid becoming the coach of a national team in the future. I doubt it will suit him.
He should probably avoid becoming the coach of a national team in the future. I doubt it will suit him.
For the so-called best manager he doesn't half cock things up when it's a big game.
Messi and Kane in this summer? Seeing as he can only win CL with Messi.
Messi and Kane in this summer? Seeing as he can only win CL with Messi.
Word.
Playing a second string stronger than most of the league can be beneficial.
Nobody will convince me pellegrini or Mancini wouldn't have been close to his haul given the same backing and time. Or any good manager. They likely wouldn't have won those 2 earlier titles so convincingly but guardiola has failed his remit.
Most heavily backed manager in the history of football. 5 years in
When will people realize CL is a pretty damn tough competition to win ? He fecked up today but this isn't Playstation. You don't win it just by having the best team and highest net spend. Completely disrespectful to other clubs.
If it's only thanks to spending I doubt why PSG still didn't win a single CL so far and only appeared in the final once, and they have a pretty easy league they could rest players in as well.
Why couldn't he pick odd selections for the two finals a decade ago? Like drop busquets completely
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He already lost to Chelsea twice this season with the usual setup. He tried something different and failed too. Not exactly over-thinking in this case.
Yeah... I think not starting Aguero was a big mistake on Pep's part. That's a proven big game player.
As sure as day follows night, Pep will feck a CL campaign through tinkering his team.
£832 Million is madness isn't it? I mean considering they already had a title winning squad when he arrived.
That’s a total cop out. He’s had teams more than good enough to win it and got it wrong in big games over a 10 year period. Tonight and the 7-1 being the most memorable examples.
I've already had one telling me you can't judge on trophies won.
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Imagine the meltdown here if manager of any other Manchester based PL club did this
Yes he fecked up big time today. His team selection and tactics were shit. No one disagrees with that.
At the same time CL is still a pretty hard competition to win and they weren't playing against a shit team or against a shit manager.
There’s an obvious comparison with another European underachiever here, but I reckon if Sir Alex had had the financial advantage that Pep has we’d have won ten titles in a row.
So five years at city. Out of a possible 5 CL’s and 5 PL’s, just the 3/10 he’s won. Not great when you consider the investment and the fact he’s the goat.
Go on Pep lovers, bite....
Go on Pep lovers, bite....
You are right, best team in Europe doesn't tend to win the trophy.
I never thought City 'suffered' in the same way Chelsea did when they kept getting into the semi finals. They are still naive in Europe.
I think Pep leaving Bayern with 0 CLs is/will be more criminal if he exits City without a CL.
832 million pounds. Over one billion euro. On a side that had a spine upon his arrival. Fernandinho, sterling, de Bruyne, Silva, Aguero and kompany have arguably been the players most key to his success and he had them already. Plus every single off field infrastructure a manager could dream off. He'll get a blank cheque again this summer and has absolutely no reason to ever leave that job.
Uncle Yaya definitely jujed him
To be fair, Ferguson's been in more CL finals than guardiola in the last 13 years, and he's been retired for 8 of them. Ferguson with what guardiola has had at City and they'd have had to start handicapping United each season
And people in this thread was comparing him to Sir Alex. He's a had the best of everything at every club he's been at. He's a good manager, but he gets way overrated.
Why do you think Guardiola had more backing than Pellegrini or Mancini? If it's not because he's the better manager why did they hold on to Guardiola and sack the aforementioned two? And if they can do what Guardiola does, why is Mancini managing Italy after a stint at Zenit, and why is Pellegrini managing Real Betis after stints in China and West Ham?
If Guardiola left tomorrow, I'm sure that he could choose pretty much any club in the world. Why is that not the case for the duo you mentioned?
Course he's a good manager. An excellent one. But he could never do what
Ferguson did at Aberdeen or United
Mourinho did at Porto or Inter
Klopp did at Liverpool
And many other examples. Need a manager for a successful club with absolutely everything in place for immediate success. He's your guy. (if you're not desperate for a CL)
Him being a clearly better coach than them almost proves the point. Give any top manager what he's had there, and 5 years, and id be shocked if they hadn't delivered a couple of titles or more and a hatful of league cups. So given his supposed superiority over so many, hes underachieving.
Pretty much nailed it
City spent five years trying to mould the club in his image. Millions spent on setting up the infrastructure.
He has high standards but should never be compared to Fergie.
Yes, if you're prepared to accept that when Mancini took over in 2009 he had a far far greater 'building' job than guardiola and allow a year or 18 months for that,
Mancini and Pellegrini combined in roughly a similar time frame won
2 premier leagues
1 fa cup
2 league cups
Guardiola won
3 premier leagues
1 fa cup
4 league cups
Which is obviously better, but considering the resources on and off field, the backing and the core of his team which he inherited, it isn't exactly a monumental shift.
People will never understand this because they don’t really understand the history of the game. I actually predicted that Chelsea would win this game and I said it wouldn’t take away from Guardiola’s achievements as a manager.
I’ve said many times that the most any manager wins the European Cup/Champions League in a career is 2 or 3 times max. Literally. But people expect Pep to win it every year because he’s spent money. It doesn’t work like that.
He’s already won it twice. That’s as many times as Fergie, Sacchi, Heynckes, Hitzfeld, Herrera and Del Bosque managed in their entire careers. Some of the greatest managers of all time. It’s a knockout competition with lots of good teams in it, any of whom can get hot at the right time. It’s very tough to win
People also don’t get the difficulty of a club winning the Champions League for the first tine. The last 8 teams to make the final for the first time have lost. But again, people don’t look at the history so they don’t get it.
He definitely made major mistakes today, but I imagine City will be back.
Fergie’s record is four CL finals in 19 attempts, while Pep’s on three in 12 cracks at it. Frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up with the same record in the competition. Fascinating as well that Pep’s best team was his first, where Fergie’s was his last.
I don't know. The 2008 team was solid, but the 1999 team never knew when it was beaten.