The amount of money needed for transfers changes over time. Rio Ferdinand was the most expensive British footballer and he costed 30m back then.
https://www.nationalfootballmuseum.com/halloffame/rio-ferdinand/
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
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https://www.nationalfootballmuseum.com/halloffame/rio-ferdinand/
Ferdinand would have went for £100m+ in todays market. The current market is crazy.
Well yeah I know we broke the British transfer record a few times, but the poster was talking about “some of the world record fees paid” under SAF which we didn’t. That was RM with signings like Figo, Zidane, C. Ronaldo, etc., not us.
I remember us missing out on a few players because we couldn’t match the transfer fees and wages of other clubs in Europe.
Truth is that since Pep arrived until today (so over a period of last five years) he is topping the spending table across Europe. When did that happen under SAF?
Rooney was also the most expensive teenager in the world back then, I believe ?
https://www.espn.com/soccer/derby-c...united-forward-rooney-appointed-derby-manager
I don't know if there're other world records, but Fergie definitely did spent a lot on some players according to this age's numbers.
I myself honestly don't find at all a problem in the money aspect or how much each manager spends.
No need to take it personally. No excuses. Sir Alex should have won more than two managing the biggest club in the world.
But it's been 10 years since pep last won one. He might never win another. Brian clough won 2. Mourinho never won another. He's stuck in 2. You never know.
Ok, but how did that record translate to what clubs on the continent were spending. Money makes winning easier, I’m not sure how many more times it needs to be said.
Well yeah most expensive teenager, most expensive 21, 28 or whatever year old, British record, most expensive players whose name start with R and all that but that’s still not world record fees. The world record was already broken before that.
If you don’t see how being the highest spenders in Europe gives you an advantage then what’s the point? I mean obviously there is no point anyway as Pep will continue his insane spending and the same people won’t see why this keeps being mentioned.
We obviously had seasons when we spent big. But we also had seasons when we had a positive net spend in the summer we bought Ronaldo and sold Becks. Or little spent in the summer when we sold Ruud and only bought Carrick. Or lost Ronaldo and bought Valencia.
Completely different to City’s oil transfer dynamics.
Most expensive teenager is indeed a known world world record though. I mean Martial was also the most expensive teenager in football when we signed him.
The other top English clubs spend ton of money and are capable of throwing +80m at one player in modern era as well. You make it look like City are the only English club who's spending down there.
Yes, they have shit ton of money but they're not competing against poor souls either.
It doesn’t make winning the champions league easier because even if you have the most money, lots of other teams have comparable money, and it’s a knockout competition. One bad result and you’re out.
Having lots of money doesn’t make winning the Champions League easier? I’ll be sure to tell the manager of the champions of the Faroe Islands that he really needs to up his game.
Well said, although the Cult Of Pep will be after you for this blasphemy.
I will say its easier at a job where you are not expected to win and can take your time vs a job where every result is scrutinized where you have to win, you have to win all the time, you have to win playing a certain type of football, while keeping your bosses happy.
Many coaches who thought they will just go to a top club and become a success have crashed.
Benitez was considered a success at Valencia and Liverpool but a monumental failure at Madrid. Same with Kovac at Frankfurt vs at Bayern
Emery at Sevilla and Villareal vs at PSG
Weak, unfunny response that completely ignores the point.
You're really understating the expectations, particularly at Liverpool, which is an extremely high pressure environment due to the expectations (and previous desperation) of the fans combined with the more limited budget. These aren't clubs where you aren't expected to win, they're clubs where you're expected to build a winning team within a few seasons. That's more difficult than inheriting the best team around, and are expected to continue being the best, although that isn't easy in itself.
You're right that many coaches struggle at top teams, I've said repeatedly in this thread that there's a real skill in being able to take the best team and make them look like it, especially keeping it up consistently, and Guardiola is a master of it, at least from a league point of view. However, I still rate Klopp's achievements higher, as he's done it in the with the underdogs, retaining the league with Dortmund and taking Liverpool from a bit of a joke to a dominant powerhouse.
The interesting thing with the likes of Pep is trying to guess where he might go in his next 3 or 4 clubs.
Surely he is nailed on for PSG at some point? Juventus? Utd? Chelsea? Barca? Bayern?
These are the only clubs I can see him at.
Surely he is nailed on for PSG at some point? Juventus? Utd? Chelsea? Barca? Bayern?
These are the only clubs I can see him at.
It's pretty hilarious that on redcafe they would have you believe that Pep Guardiola has endless amounts of money and signs all the best players in the world each season.
Yet his highest fee for Dias is less than half of what Barcelona spent on Coutinho. Try let that sink in for a second.
You think Guardiola wouldn't have wanted to sign a Mbappe, Neymar, Haaland etc?
Everton have a net spend of around -£350m Euros and they finished 10th in the league. A net spend higher than any English team bar City and United. But I thought it was all about money?
Yeah that £50m difference between United and City is the reason City are winning titles, losing in CL finals whilst United are losing to the 7th best Spanish side in EL finals.
Yet his highest fee for Dias is less than half of what Barcelona spent on Coutinho. Try let that sink in for a second.
You think Guardiola wouldn't have wanted to sign a Mbappe, Neymar, Haaland etc?
Everton have a net spend of around -£350m Euros and they finished 10th in the league. A net spend higher than any English team bar City and United. But I thought it was all about money?
Yeah that £50m difference between United and City is the reason City are winning titles, losing in CL finals whilst United are losing to the 7th best Spanish side in EL finals.
The under the table wage bumps probably also help, to be fair. Just because Pep hasn't spent HUGE on any one player doesn't mean that he hasn't been given absurd amounts of money to spend. He's spent an absolute fortune on centre backs and fullbacks over the years, for example. City have comfortably the deepest squad in the Prem and it's ALL (bar Foden) players that they've brought in. So yes, money is a factor in Pep's success. A huge one. No doubt he's a brilliant coach - one of the very best - but to scoff at the people that mention his spending is disingenuous.
Your point was fecking stupid.
It’s pretty hilarious that people like you laugh at the notion that he hasn’t when they know he’s spent more money than any other manager since he’s been at City.
What you conveniently ignore is the fact that many of Pep’s best players were already at City. De Bruyne, Sterling, Aguero, Kompany, Fernandinho, Silva. And they weren’t cheap either.
Also, despite the huge fees for Neymar and Mbappe, he’s still spent more than PSG. I’d take the net spend of a team proven to cook their books with a pinch of salt mind you.
Yeah, it would seem like that to someone who doesn’t have a clue about anything. May I remind you that you said this:
First of all, I think it’s doubtful that Ferguson spent significantly less money than Real Madrid during his tenure (SAF did spend half a billion after all), but let’s say for argument’s sake that Real Madrid did spend a lot more, I’ve no idea what the figures are.
Real Madrid won the Champions League a whopping 3 times in the 25 years that Fergie was the manager (he won it twice obviously). Why was it not so much easier for them to win it when they were apparently spending so much more money then all the other massively wealthy European giants?
Then you referenced Italian teams in the 90s and suggested that they were outspending everyone at the time. Again, let’s assume that you are correct. I count exactly 2 CL wins in the 1990s by Italian teams, one for Milan, one for Juve. So why was it not so much easier for Italian teams to win it over Bayern, Dortmund, Ajax, Marseille etc, with all this money they were spending?
If it was all about who was spending the most money (and the Italians and Madrid were the main spenders as you claim) then surely it should have been reflected by greater patterns of dominance in both cases?
Try and actually think about what you are saying.
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You would think all these apparent supporters of teams on the continent have something better to do than defend Pep’s honour on a Man United forum.
He beat the mighty Real Madrid in the cup winners cup with little Aberdeen. How much money did he have then? They didn't even have a training ground.
When has Pep ever achieved anything against the odds?
It's hilarious that you and others keep mentioning Sterling, Aguero, KDB, Kompany and Fernandinho. When in fact Kompany hardly featured because he was injured all the time. Fernandinho was not a top player before Guardiola and not a single Man United fan would have took Sterling over Martial after the 15-16 season.
Aguero was also injury prone and often not selected by Guardiola. Man City won the PL in 18/19 with 98 points and De Bruyne started ELEVEN league games.
Imagine you're arguement being so weak that Guardiola made CL final this season with an off form Sterling, injury prone Aguero, nearly past it Fernandinho and two players not there anymore. Ouch.
So, what your argument actually is, is based on you not knowing any figures? It’s not easy, but it helps when you were around at the time.
Between 1986 and 2013, Alex Ferguson spent £710m per Trasnfermarkt. More difficult to find for the likes of Real Madrid because they chop and change managers. Per 90min.com Real Madrid spent €965m between 2003 and 2013. I think it’s safe to say they spent more money. The fact that Real Madrid won more when they constantly chopped and changed managers is evidence that having more money makes it easier. Not the opposite.
When AC Milan were spending £13m on Lentini in the 90’s, United’s record signing was Gary Pallister at £2.3m. You’re arguing against facts because you don’t know them and then claiming it’s me that doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
You didn’t count very well then because Milan won it twice in the 90’s. Serie A also produced 8 teams in the finals in the 90’s. The closest to that was Spain with 3. Guess who else spent lots of money in those days. Do you know how many finalists they’ve had in the 22 years since? 5. Funny how much harder it got when they stopped outspending the rest of Europe. You’re arguing against facts.
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Nobody is saying he isn’t a good manager. The excuses you’re making are fecking ridiculous though. Before this season there wasn’t a year Aguero wasn’t their top scorer.
Some United fans being idiots isn’t evidence that he didn’t have better players than anyone else did.
When you see the support field filled with some random team or "Supports football" "neutral", just think one of them is doing a Orc or Salford (banned CHelsea poster who pretended as ManUtd fan). There are many btw, many City fans who pretend as ManUtd fans and they are so pathetic and shameless.
This is getting silly - you're tying yourself in rhetorical knots to defend Pep over something that's quite simply unarguable. He's spent enormous sums of money and waffling on about making the CL final (not winning it, mind) with an out of form Sterling, injury prone Aguero etc doesn't change that. The city bench was bought for slightly more than 350 million quid all together. What other clubs are able to have three players on the bench that they bought for £50 million and more apiece? Making out like he's worked miracles just because because Sterling was off form and Aguero was injured when he's working with one of the most expensively assembled squads of players of all time is an absolute nonsense.
Do you not think it says something that despite not spending £100 million+ on individual players like Mpabbe and Neymar, City have still had the highest net spend across Europe?
From Transfermarkt:
Ruben Dias - £61.2m
Nathan Ake - £40.8m
Ferran Torres - £20.7m
Joao Cancelo - £58.5m
Rodri - £56.4m
Riyad Mahrez - £61m
Aymeric Laporte - £58.5m
Benjamin Mendy - £51.8m
Kyle Walker - £47.4m
Bernardo Silva - £45m
Ederson - £36m
Danilo - £27m
John Stones - £50m
Leroy Sane - £46.8m
Gabriel Jesus - £28.8m
Ilkay Gundogan - £24.3m
That's over £714 million on 16 players in 5 years under Pep, and doesn't include the 25 players they've bought for under £20 million (that's another £124 million on top).
Obviously United have spent a lot over this period as well, but a list of United's transfers over £20 million in the same time gives you this:
Donny van de Beek - £35.1m
Harry Maguire - £78.3m
Bruno Fernandes - £49.5m
Aaron Wan-Bissaka - £49.5m
Fred - £53.1m
Romelu Lukaku - £76.2m
Nemanja Matic - £40.2m
Victor Lindelof - £31.5m
Alexis Sanchez - £30.6m
Paul Pogba - £94.5m
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - £37.8m
Eric Bailly - £34.2m
That's £607.5 million on 12 players in 5 years, with another £77.7 million spent on bringing in 6 players for under £20 million each.
Your "£50m difference between United and City" is actually more like £150 million, and an entire squad's worth of players.
indeed. spent nearly a billion in the 5 years he has been here and approx 400million of defence alone. Why hasn't he been able to win the CL when Flick did it in half a season, as did Tunchel? Klopp did in 3rd full season (made a final in 2nd full season). It never really gets mentioned. If you include his Bayern run (took over current champs), his CL drought is rarely brought up by the media. Its 10 years since he last lifted it. Give a man a Messi and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to Messi and he'll eat for a lifetime
I am assuming Klopp if given the choice between Madrid Barcelona or Milan would likely choose Milan.
He would do anything to avoid Madrid and Barcelona because he can easily be trashed there like many top coaches before him while Milan will have more patience and can stay the course for 5yrs without sky high expectations, a situation where he can not really lose vs a Madrid where he cannot really win
that's another CB CDM and Jadon Sancho (if we assume we would not have signed Amad)
Since Pep left Messi, Messi has made a final just once and his team has been embarrassed out of the CL for the past 5yrs in humiliating fashion
Fixed it for you
Factually wrong. Xavi made the 2015 final with Messi.
Messi has made 1 CL final since Pep left almost a decade ago. Half of the years humiliated out of the CL by Bayern twice, Liverpool Roma, PSG, Juventus
As humiliating as losing to Lyon?
Lyon last season eliminated Juve and City and with better luck could have done Bayern too
Check the below
Roma 3 Barcelona 0
Juventus 3 Barcelona 0
Bayern 7 Barcelona 0
Liverpool 4 Barcelona 0
Psg 4 Barcelona 1
Bayern 8 Barcelona 2
Aggregate 29 - 3
With Messi. Since Pep left, Messi hasn't been faring so great either
That's over and above inheriting Aguero, Sterling, Kompany, KdB, D. Silva iirc?
Yep, it’s becoming pretty standard at the moment. Fluent English speaking poster newly appears with Supports: Bologna or some other completely unrelated shite and spends all their time spamming the Pep thread and trying to manufacture a bit of credibility for “project City”.
It’s quite funny just how much they care what others think of them, says it all.
Thought the thread was about Saint Guardiola getting the sack! It’s turned into a ner ner ner ner ner thread about who has spent the most as per published figures. Guardiola won’t be sacked just yet cos it would cost City too much. He’s on £20m per year (officially) so even City couldn’t hide his pay off in the FFP accounts. On buying players, City seem to buy players for low prices that fit into the squad. We buy players for big fees that are bench sitters like DVB.
It's £50m net difference, which is factual, whether you don't want to accept it or not.
An entire squads worth of players? Wit?
Would love to see the 25 players list under £20m.