Where can you find managers like this man?!
A decade without a league title! I never expected that to happen to us. There was actually a time when I wondered how come that Liverpool couldn’t win a title for 30 years. Now I understand!
PL Title Race
- Thread starter adexkola
- Start date
A decade without a league title! I never expected that to happen to us. There was actually a time when I wondered how come that Liverpool couldn’t win a title for 30 years. Now I understand!
Of course you conveniently forgot to mention, if Bayern played in the premier league, they would have a 100 million more from TV money.
Arsenal spent hundred of millions without any long-term plan how to build your team. United did the same since Ferguson left.
Sorry mate but you're dead wrong with this. The only player not on City's list who should be is Cole Palmer. None of our other youngsters are in the first-team picture in anything like the same way that Neco Williams, Nat Phillips, Curtis Jones, or Callum Hudson-Odoi are. In fact I think it's really odd that you're banging on about the other team's "youth players" being included when I don't see a single youth player on the Liverpool or Chelsea lists?
Also Kayky's not a City first-team player, he's in the academy. Not got a clue why you're bringing him into this.
I'd have to assume you don't know football particularly well and so have incorrectly assumed that the Chelsea and Liverpool names on that list who you don't recognise must be youth players- none of them are.
Anyway, If you add players who have been in our league cup and FA games you'll have to do the same for Liverpool and for Chelsea so their lists will also grow massively.
That's a really good point about wasted money yeah, I agree.
I just always believed that one of the big advantages of playing for Bayern and why so many players (in particular German players) would love to play for Bayern is precisely because they're guaranteed titles and they know it's the only team in Germany that can compete in Europe.
Whereas in the PL, even a really great team like Man City, they might win the League Title, but there's absolutely no guarantee that they will win the CL because other English teams can stop them from winning like Liverpool or Chelsea.
Same with the other English domestic trophies (FA cup, League Cup), any of the top 6 teams have the strength to stop Man City from winning them.
So if a player is deciding where to play, they could easily choose Liverpool, because they can win trophies, even European trophies. So can Chelsea. Man Utd is prestigious and rebuilding. Arsenal are also trying to rebuild and can already win domestic trophies at least.
If Bayern were in the PL, there's no reason why the good players at Bayern would automatically choose Bayern in the first place, especially when they have other excellent options. That's why I think it would be a struggle.
But you're absolutely correct that Arsenal & Man Utd wasted so much cash and the truth is, they are not really being run properly as football clubs. It's really sad to see.
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English teams aren't the only ones knocking out City in the UCL.
They literally got outplayed and eliminated by Lyon and Monaco as well, plus Real Madrid and Barcelona.
They are far from dominating Europe, and i believe they will never do such thing, considering how many times they shat the bed after getting the lead first, even with Guardiola super coaching team.
I think Liverpool and Chelsea have more chances to win the UCL this season than City, despite City destroying EPL teams every weekend.
It's sad. I don't see us winning EPL in the next few years either, so it will for sure 10 years at least without winning it.
Which German top player did Bayern buy in the last 10 years? I can only remember Goetze.
United got as many Dortmund players as Bayern. Only difference Bayern obviously was more successful in selecting the better players.
Otherwise Bayern spent 40 millions Euro and more on Hernandez, Tollisso and Sané.
Kimmich, Davies, Goretzka, Musiala, Süle, Gnabry, Coman were hardly known before joining Bayern. I still remember very well that many here predicted the decline of Bayern when they got Gnabry an Arsenal reject to replace Robbery.
It's just a myth that Bayern for a few run on all the Bundesliga talent.
That's an excellent point. Bayern have an outstanding scouting capacity, I agree with that totally yeah.
Is it true that Bayern harvests Bundesliga talent and coaches? Undeniably. Is it true that Bayern is the sole destination for ambitious players in Germany? Yes. And we could spend a long time debating how all that would change and affect Bayern if they found themselves part of the PL (or in the same league as other PL teams).
But it doesn't take away from Bayern's outstanding capacity to identify unrecognized talent and mould them together into high caliber players. I have always admired their ability to do that. And certainly it would give them a serious edge in the PL yes. Without any doubt.
You gave great examples, Tolliso, Gnabry, Coman, Davies etc.
They have an amazing talent scouting and coaching operation at Bayern and are one of the best, if not the best in the world in that aspect of football.
Good points yeah. City under Pep did suffer at the hands of PL teams in Europe 3 times (Tottenham, Chelsea, Liverpool stopped them from winning the CL) but you're correct to say it's not only them definitely. They got beaten by other teams as well yeah definitely.
I just meant there's no telling who would have a better chance in two legged ties or one-off match between those 3 currently. They're all pretty strong right now.That's just puzzlingly counter-factual
What does the word "chance" mean to you?
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And so do all other Bundesliga clubs and a lot of foreign clubs
That's not true. Sané, Werner, Havertz, DeBrunye, Sancho all went to PL clubs.
Many Recent Bayern coaches Flick, LvG, Ancelotti, Pep were not from Bundesliga. They get as many coaches from BL as they get abroad.
The biggest talents from Bundesliga in recent years go abroad. Werner Harvetz, Pulisic, Sancho KdB Sane Dembele Aubameyang and soon Haaland
Just 8 points, 8 points is a big gap.
No insurmountable, City pulled back 8 points on United in something like 6 games in the Aguero season. Also pulled back something similar on Liverpool over the 2nd half of the 98 vs 97 points season (albeit winning 15 games in a row to do so).
United pulled back 12 or 13 on Newcastle iirc so its happened. If Liverpool can match City till the the Etihad games and win that, that would make it a 5 point race with 6 to play.
Liverpool don't look as though they can put together a double digit win streak, though. They will drop points. If City win the head to head, it's obviously done and dusted. Even a draw there will probably suffice.
We’d have to win every remaining game for it to be even remotely possible.
I don’t think we’ll show enough consistency between now and May. I could see us dropping points at Palace next Sunday for a start.
Not insurmountable in theory. But the biggest problem is that City under Pep have shown themselves capable of winning matches at a rate beyond any of the other chased-down teams you mention. Unless they have a huge spate of injuries, a City motivated by a title race rather than on cruise control is only likely to drop maybe 8-12 points in their remaining 16 matches. So being 8 points behind them is a pretty big problem.
Maybe not top German players, but they have certainly picked off the top talent from German clubs - Lewandowski, Hummels, Gotze, Neuer etc. Each time weakening their domestic rivals too. That would be a lot harder to do in the PL. When was the last time a big club poached a top player from another big club in the PL. I think Sterling to Man City might be the last time it happened. And that was in the Rodgers era when Liverpool were a bit rubbish.
That United side was nowhere near as good as this City side, and City had a game in hand over liverpool. Also and more importantly, City did something special to pull that off. If city keep the pace liverpool could win every game left and it still wouldn't be enough
The 90s were basically prehistory as far as 2022 football is concerned
City on pace for 97 points as it stands. They need 41 out of 48 points left. If they do, it doesn't even matter what anyone else does. Liverpool's max is 96
United were insanely dominant around the turn of the Millennium right. They backed up the treble winning season in 1998/1999, by winning the title by 18 points in 1999/2000 (wrapping it up with 4 games left), and then by 10 points in 2000/2001 (wrapping it up with 5 games left before switching off and losing their last 3 games of the season). So it was 3 titles in a row, 7 in 9 years, and back to back one horse races. Admittedly the Premier League and football in general is drastically different now than it was back then. Things seemed to change quite drastically between United's 1999 and 2008 Champions League wins.
Anyway regarding this title race, it wouldn't surprise me if Liverpool drop more points than City between now and the end of the season, and the margin widens.
At least with the Premier League, while there are one or two horse races, the identity of those horses changes a lot more over time compared to the other big 4 leagues. Bayern had already won 13 more league titles in Germany than any other club before their current steak of 9 titles in a row and counting started. Juve had already won 9 more league titles in Italy than other club before their recent streak of 9 league titles in a row started. By the end of this season Real and Barca will have won 61 out of 91 Spanish league titles in history between them, and Atleti already had the 3rd highest number of title wins before Simeone took charge.
Anyway regarding this title race, it wouldn't surprise me if Liverpool drop more points than City between now and the end of the season, and the margin widens.
At least with the Premier League, while there are one or two horse races, the identity of those horses changes a lot more over time compared to the other big 4 leagues. Bayern had already won 13 more league titles in Germany than any other club before their current steak of 9 titles in a row and counting started. Juve had already won 9 more league titles in Italy than other club before their recent streak of 9 league titles in a row started. By the end of this season Real and Barca will have won 61 out of 91 Spanish league titles in history between them, and Atleti already had the 3rd highest number of title wins before Simeone took charge.
Furthermore, 90s PL wasn't nowhere near as good as current PL.
Leeds,Newcastle, Aston Villa, and Blackburn (who competed with United for PL titles in the 90s) did close to nothing in Europe when they qualified to the UEFA Cup and Champions League.
Those teams were certainly not nearly as good as current Chelsea and Liverpool("on paper" biggest competitors for PL with City) who are doing well in european football.
Despite City walking the PL, Liverpool and Chelsea are between the favorites to win CL.
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Most likely but nothing is certain till its certain. Its also 16 games in a row and that while unlikely isn't beyond you, especially if you build up a head of steam.
At our current points per game we're on course for 89-90. Liverpool are on course for 82, that not a huge swing.
16 games left for city.
Lose 1. Draw 3. Win 12
(City have played all the Big 5 away too)
That would mean Liverpool wining all their 17 games in a row.
Don't get me wrong but we are huge favourites but lets say over our next 5 games Southampton, Brentford, Norwich, Spurs and Everton. We get Conte'd and then either Everton or Saints get a plucky draw. Thats a 5 point swing and whilst unlikely we can't win forever. Liverpool over the same period play Palace, Leicester, Norwich, Burnley, West Ham. They could win all 5. Right now they are more likely to drop points for sure but its not as foregone as people thing.
Saints and Spurs are 2 of the 4 teams to take points off us already this season. Its within our grasp could even say we have one hand on it but it isn't done.
56 in 22 games is 2.54 ppg. That's 96.7(round to 97) over 38
Sorry I must have mistyped when doing the math, I'm a bit more relaxed reading that. Still, not done till Fernandinho is tactical fouling the trophy.
Pep as a league coach is basically unstoppable.
This place should honestly hope for that. City 97, Liverpool 96
RAWK would implode
RAWK would implode
City poached Sagna Clichy Nasri Adebayor from Arsenal
Only Nasri being an important loss at the time
Well the transfers you mentioned were earlier or the same time as the Sterling move to Man City.
Bayern is a top 3 club over the last decade so it's normal a lot of players like to play there. Real and Barcelona in Spain or Juventus in Italy have the same pulling power for Spanish or Italian talents respectively.
Mathematically, it's possible that we catch City. We could be 8 points behind with our game in hand and then 5 if we beat them at the Etihad. A 5 point swing with 16 games left isn't insurmountable, but the liklihood of it happening is minimal.
City could rest their entire first 11 and still put a team out that would challenge for the top 2/3 in the league, so injuries/lack of form isn't going to stop them. They may have the odd weird result (Spurs and Palace), but I just can't see it.
Ridiculous that with this many games left, a potential 5 point lead is classed as a mountain, but that's where we're at.
City could rest their entire first 11 and still put a team out that would challenge for the top 2/3 in the league, so injuries/lack of form isn't going to stop them. They may have the odd weird result (Spurs and Palace), but I just can't see it.
Ridiculous that with this many games left, a potential 5 point lead is classed as a mountain, but that's where we're at.
City, oh how money made them great! And Pep. Wonder who can follow his legacy after he decides to move on from the P.L.
I can’t see Pep bottle this up at all.
I can’t see Pep bottle this up at all.
Why is that.
RAWK would implode
Assuming City's first eleven is
Ederson Walker Dias Laporte Cancelo Rodri KdB Gundogan Bernardo Foden Mahrez
His second team would be
Steffen RB* Stones Ake Zinchenko Fernadinho Palmer Grealish Sterling Jesus Kayky
I can't get a backup Right back.
Are you saying this is enough to challenge Liverpool and Chelsea for top 2/3. ?
By the way this is what a Chelsea and Man Utd 2nd team looks like. Looks way stronger that a Man city team B
Kepa Azpi Christensen Chalobah Alonso Barkley RLC, Werner Harvetz Mount
Henderson Dalot Telles Bailly Lindelof Matic Pogba VDB Greenwood Martial Lingaard (Mata Cavani)
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Its nonsense over the top bullshido.
I'd say our first XI this season is Ederson, Walker, Dias, Laporte, Cancelo, Rodri, Bernardo, KDB, Mahrez, Foden, Grealish
So 2nd team would be Steffen, Egan Riley, Stones, Ake, Zinchenko, Fernandinho, Gundogan, McAtee, Jesus, Sterling, Palmer (So in Cities 2nd team there are 2 players who've never featured before in the PL)
Your overall point still stands the defence would be midtable level, the midfield with Ferns lack of legs maybe 6-10th and the front 3 probably just behind the big 6 with a case for being better than maybe Arsenal. I'd expect Cities 2nd team to be 7th to 12th in the league all told.
For comparison assuming Uniteds first XI is DDG, AWB, Varane, Slabhead, Shaw, McFred, Bruno, CR7, Rashford and Sancho
There 2nd XI would be - Henderson, Dalot, Bailly, Lindelof, Telles, Matic, Pogba, Van De Beek, Greenwood, Cavani and Lingard with Martial and Mata to spare, on paper stronger than Cities almost everywhere, arguably stronger than their own first XI.
Liverpool with Ali, TAA, Matip, VVD, Robertson, Fabinho, Henderson, Keita, Salah, Mane, Jota
Their 2nd XI are - Kelleher, Gomez, Konate, Phillips, Tsmikas, Milner, Thiago, Ox, Firmino, Minamino, Origi, they also have Curtis Jones and Neco Williams to spare.
Chelsea - Mendy, Rudiger, Silva, Azpi, James, Chilwell, Kovacic, Jorginho, Mount, Lukaku, Werner
Their 2nd XI is - Kepa, Christiansen, Chalobah, Sarr, Alonso, Pulisic, Kante, RLC, CHO, Ziyech, Havertz with Saul and Barkley to spare. (I know Kante is likely 1st XI but right now TT is playing with a 2 and 3 attackers so you can swap him for Jorginho or Kovacic and nothing changes)
Yet somehow its claimed City have the biggest squad.
It sounds ridiculous to say it now but Nemanja Matic was crucial to Chelsea the season before he joined United. Still can't remember why they let him go.