And he's still not official retired
Players with the steepest declines
- Thread starter Hound Dog
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Might be my memory playing tricks on me, but it felt like Papiss Cisse of Newcastle went from scoring loads to looking like he'd never seen a football before almost overnight.
Wasn't arsed once Fergie left.
Gary Neville went from decent to a complete liability pretty quickly at the end
13 in 14 in his first 1/2 season at Newcastle. But he’s more of a 1 season wonder then a step decline like Michu was for Swansea
He scored 13 of those goals in 4 games in that season, and non in the CL (we made the final).
Liverpool 3
Blackburn 5
Birmingham 3
Blackpool 2
Berbatov had a great skill set but his mentality and execution for our team was extremely poor. To be honest, he had the skills of a United player the mentality of a Spurs one (at the time). Easily there with Veron as one of Fergies worst top level signings.
You're kidding right?
He was ruined because of the injuries he had. It's the most obvious thing in the world that Torres was wrecked because of the injuries he had.
Giuseppe Rossi quickly went from being one of the best players in La Liga to being unwanted . His injuries really robbed him of his career.
No I wasn’t kidding but another poster said the same as you so I guess I remembered it wrong. My memory was that that he moved from Liverpool to Chelsea in Januari and started playing bad immediately. Without severe injuries. But I guess I remember it wrong.
Fair enough.
He was poor in 2009-10 for Liverpool then finished the season early to have surgery on his knee and then appeared at the 2010 World Cup but was an absolute shell of himself.
He was then pretty awful for Liverpool in 2010-11 up until the Chelsea game where he looked a bit more like his old self and scored and then immediately transferred to Chelsea and he was dogshit from then on.
That injury and surgery fecked him completely, he rushed back (a bit like Falcao) and it ruined him forever.
It's common for everyone to use the Chelsea transfer as the turning point but he was awful for a good while before that ever happened.
Bojan was actually a good player between 2007 and early 2010, had some very good games but not consistency. If he was a part of a good Barça team then it has to be a decline.
I think Sanchez does have some similarities. People point out that he has flopped since joining Manchester United. But actually he looks wrecked in the 1st half of 2017-2018 season at Arsenal too. But a lot on here merely pointed it out as he was just "unhappy" at Arsenal. Turned out he brought that form to us as well.
Think his decline is always a bit exaggerated. He scored 21 and assisted 9 in 32 games in the 2006/07 season and still had 8 goals in 17 games when he was transferred to Milan which is still a great record for a winger/CAM. I think in that season he also scored some of his most memorable goals, like the famous overhead kick after the chest control. In his second season in Italy, he managed 12 goals and 18 assists in 36 games. That was half a season before he went back to Brazil. This is probably the actual turning point. He wasn't as good as in 2004-2006 but still among the elite players only months before he moved to Flamengo. This is the silly thing and why he is considered to have degressed that fast.
Barca didn't get rid of him because of his bad performances either (which weren't as great as before but still comfortably world class) but because of the bad influence his lifestyle could have had on Messi.
Pep just did to Ronaldinho what he did to Joe Hart/Yaya Toure at City: Kicking a talisman out to prevent a potential player power as well as getting hailed as a genius in case he succeeds AFTER kicking the big star out.
In 2016 Pep would have kicked De Gea out of Manchester United had he become our manager instead of Mourinho and bring in a goalie "good with his feet".
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You mean the season he scored 18 goals in 22 games (games, not starts) in the league? 22 in 32 overall. It was an injury ravaged season, but he was very, very far from poor - in fact he was lethal that season.
And regarding the rest of your quote, he scored 9 in 23 for Liverpool before moving to Chelsea in the league. By no means excellent, but there were extenuating circumstances beyond injury (namely, Roy Hodgson managing Liverpool).
This revisionism to suggest he was "poor for a good while" before his Chelsea move is just that. You could make an argument for his obvious decline, but it wasn't really obvious at the time and is very much hindsight.
Liverpool should never have sold him to get bloody Andy Carroll.
Regarding Torres, the injuries definitely did not help. But it was as much mental as anything and that was pretty obvious - he wasn't suddenly world class or anything when he went to Atletico (and by this point the injuries had really taken their toll and also age etc), but he was a damn sight better than he was at Chelsea.
Moyes
Ferdinand had been a crock for years, but careful management by Fergie (light training, not playing him more than once a week) enabled him to still keep performing at the highest level. Moyes apparently took all of this away, making him train the same as everyone else and playing him every game. By the time he left United he was done.
di Maria when Ashley Young pushed him down the pitchside slope
He was poor the first half of 2010/11.
First of all...There is more to football than stats. Speaking of those numbers though...He got 2 at home to Chelsea (I think they were in the middle of an awful run) which in terms of his form came out of nowhere, and two tap-ins against Wolves in January-after that game Mereiles who put the first on a plate for Torres instead of scoring himself said he had done so because he knew Torres needed a goal that badly.
His other goals were West Brom, Blackburn, Bolton at home, and Wigan and Blackpool (in a game he scored after 3 minutes and then was shite the rest of the time) away.
Not only that but his performances at the time were poor. And that’s not hindsight. You can go back and read match reports from the time and it’s more than clear.
Matic. Went from being one of the best midfielders in the world to doing his retirement tour after signing for United.
Kaka and it's not even close, he literally went from a world-beater at Milan to a mediocre benchwarmer at Real in a matter of months.
It was really sad to see his legs go so dramatically. I think it was the west brom game where he just couldn't keep up and had a couple of horrible fouls. Was like watching your grandpa trying to keep up with you, almost.
Schevchenko and Torres at Chelsea... Both were gash
Yeah there was talk of him going to the 2010 World Cup before injury ended his season, then he was so bad in 2010/11 he retired at half time against West Brom!
Wonderful player at his peak, brilliant cross on him
To fair we have to be honest and admit he did the right thing at West Brom, he was so finished at that point he couldn't even run!!
Probably got riddled by injuries from these stats. He was still scoring fairly ok being with new team mates each time and all, it's the number of appearances that took a nose dive and he became a journeyman. My bet is it's injuries that ruined him.
I'm not denying he wasn't top class in the first half of 2010/2011, and really hit form around the time of his Chelsea move, my point was:
- Extenuating circumstances - Liverpool under Roy Hodgson was like Man Utd under Moyes/Mourinho. It was dour, horrible football. He scored 9 in 23 - not the worst outcome in the world, and yes he had horrible performances too, but basically a six month period - you could argue class, not form, especially with the manager not playing to (any!) player's strengths.
- If you break most player's stats down enough, it will reveal holes (see Suarez). Salah is one player who seems to not score TOO many goals in one game but score relatively frequently otherwise.
- Most importantly - like with Alonso ("he had two or three poor seasons when Rafa was looking to sell him on" - there's a lot of revionism..."he (Torres) wasn't poor for long periods starting from the beginning of 2009/2010" - he was absolutely brilliant, albeit injury ravaged, in 2009/2010 (Liverpool had a poor season, he didn't). He had a poor World Cup, and had a bad six months in the first half of 2010/2011 season.
I hated him playing for us, didnt hate the man, hated the fact that he played for us, because he was lazy, didnt like to push himself at all, the cup games against city where he missed two open goals from 5 yards out and the shit penalty against Everton were particular low lights.
His worst match however was away to Villa when.....Houlier was managing them, he was complete dogshit, walking around the place basically doing nothing while we we were losing.
He was hooked off for Macheda if i remember right and we ended up winning the game.
He gained about two stone, that's what killed his career.