Players you believe get a raw deal on the caf

[Volumiza]

Depends what your ambitions are. He is fine for teams who want to qualify for top 4. All our defenders are to an extent. But could he have replaced VVD and helped Liverpool to Champions League and Title glory?

Could he have replaced Sol Campbell in Arsenal Invicibles season, partner with Kolo and had the same effect of winning a double?

Could he have partnered Gallas and broken premier league records?

I am not so sure. Building defences that can win trophies is more than keeping a few clean sheets. There are some forwards who can score here and there but you won't win anything major with them. Obviously if we had the best midfield and forward line in the world then we possibly could.

My hopes for the team are the same as yours I’d imagine and I’ve kept saying that obviously he isn’t the best defender in the world but my view is that the gap between Maguire and the best isn’t so massive that he couldn’t play in any top team and win trophies.

I know everyone see players differently but when I watch Maguire I see a top CB. As good as Campbell was? Probably not but Campbell had mistakes in him too. As good as VVD? Who is? As
Good as Rio, Vidic, Maldini? Of course not. But good enough to be constant National CB and captain of Manchester United. I just don’t think the difference in quality between Maguire and any other CB’s is big enough to question his ability to play in a title winning team.

 

[Stacks]

My hopes for the team are the same as yours I’d imagine and I’ve kept saying that obviously he isn’t the best defender in the world but my view is that the gap between Maguire and the best isn’t so massive that he couldn’t play in any top team and win trophies.

I know everyone see players differently but when I watch Maguire I see a top CB. As good as Campbell was? Probably not but Campbell had mistakes in him too. As good as VVD? Who is? As
Good as Rio, Vidic, Maldini? Of course not. But good enough to be constant National CB and captain of Manchester United. I just don’t think the difference in quality between Maguire and any other CB’s is big enough to question his ability to play in a title winning team.

Being a constant pick in England and Manchester isn't a major achievement when you look at the comp. We don't have Ledley King, Carragher, Rio, Vidic, Campbell, Woodgate anymore. Our other options are who? Neither Man Utd nor England are top sides.

Regarding the difference between Maguire and other CB's, maybe you are right. I look around and am not that impressed with defenders across the world as there are no Puyol's about. But then people underrated Pique and he looked very impressive against us in the champions league and made our attackers look young and immature. Then got torn up by Bayern. I think the championship CB's need to be confident in one on ones and not dive in and get skinned easily. He needs to inspire confidence throughout his teammates that he can hold it down under pressure.

 

[Volumiza]

Being a constant pick in England and Manchester isn't a major achievement when you look at the comp. We don't have Ledley King, Carragher, Rio, Vidic, Campbell, Woodgate anymore. Our other options are who? Neither Man Utd nor England are top sides.

Well this is sort of the point I’ve been trying to make in a way. In the halls of fame Maguire won’t be mixing with the very best CBs we’ve seen but currently there aren’t many better out there, anywhere. So if we’ve got a CB that’s not far off the best around, what is everyone moaning about?

For me, our back 4 is bloody good and certainly not a million miles worse than any back 4 in any other team currently. AWB is a seriously good RB. Lindelof isn’t perfect by any means and is probably a bit too similar to Maguire in some respects so it’s not the most dynamic partnership we’ll ever see but our defensive record last season shows that it’s far from terrible. LB, I’m actually of the opinion Shaw is a good solid player and Telles has impressed me so far.

To transform us into a title winning side in my opinion would see changes to our attack before changes to our defence.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Maguire, mostly because he is coming oles fellaini - people trying to win internet argument think if they can prove Maguire isn't good they can prove ole needs to be sacked

 

[Gabagoo]

de Gea, Lindelof, Wan-Bissaka, Dalot, Fred, McTominay, Rashford and Igahlo are somewhat underrated.

Pogba gets a ridiculously rough deal on this forum.

Maguire and James get somewhat protected by the resident Top Reds, presumably because they think that Maguire will be their new Bruce and James will be their new Giggs.

 

[Stacks]

Well this is sort of the point I’ve been trying to make in a way. In the halls of fame Maguire won’t be mixing with the very best CBs we’ve seen but currently there aren’t many better out there, anywhere. So if we’ve got a CB that’s not far off the best around, what is everyone moaning about?

For me, our back 4 is bloody good and certainly not a million miles worse than any back 4 in any other team currently. AWB is a seriously good RB. Lindelof isn’t perfect by any means and is probably a bit too similar to Maguire in some respects so it’s not the most dynamic partnership we’ll ever see but our defensive record last season shows that it’s far from terrible. LB, I’m actually of the opinion Shaw is a good solid player and Telles has impressed me so far.

To transform us into a title winning side in my opinion would see changes to our attack before changes to our defence.

I guess it's his cost vs ability, meaning we could of got 2 CBS around that level for the cost and not have to delve into the market again to find a partner to cover his weaknesses.

In our recent games we have had to play 2 holding players so I am not even sure our own manager thinks our defence is bloody good. AWB is so good he had to change his footballing nationality. Shaw has definitely got better this season. Telles and him provide good competition to each other. I am happy with the left hand side. Lindelof is your typical end of era Arsenal CB, when they struggled to replace their previous CB's and were always accused of being spineless.

I feel we have different opinions on where our defence lie and that's ok. I agree with Neville in that a CB would have been our priority because now we have to sacrifice creativity to protect our defence. Both attack and defence need equal improvement IMO in order to become challengers.

 

[Borys]

Depends what your ambitions are. He is fine for teams who want to qualify for top 4. All our defenders are to an extent. But could he have replaced VVD and helped Liverpool to Champions League and Title glory?

Could he have replaced Sol Campbell in Arsenal Invicibles season, partner with Kolo and had the same effect of winning a double?

Could he have partnered Gallas and broken premier league records?

I am not so sure. Building defences that can win trophies is more than keeping a few clean sheets. There are some forwards who can score here and there but you won't win anything major with them. Obviously if we had the best midfield and forward line in the world then we possibly could.

Applying this approach we'd probably need to scrap half a team though. Also you are pointing toward extreme examples.

We need to take each step at a time. Maguire is no world beater, but if we can get a better centre back then I don't think it's Harry who's going to be replaced.

 

[Stacks]

Applying this approach we'd probably need to scrap half a team though. Also you are pointing toward extreme examples.

We need to take each step at a time. Maguire is no world beater, but if we can get a better centre back then I don't think it's Harry who's going to be replaced.

Of course. I am happy to keep him also. I am curious as to who the ideal partner would be for him.

 

[MattyLT]

Dan James and Juan Mata are two players I think are getting a raw deal a lot of times, because they're expected by the club to paper over that massive, gaping hole down the right wing. And when they can't do that, they're the ones who end up taking the flack by some supporters. Juan Mata is still fine as a backup for the number 10 role, I think, but he isn't a right winger. And Dan James was never intended to be more than a prospect getting a bit of game time, but he's been thrown out on the deep end on too many occasions - and I think it's hampering his development (been looking low on confidence for some time now).

 

[Stacks]

Dan James and Juan Mata are two players I think are getting a raw deal a lot of times, because they're expected by the club to paper over that massive, gaping hole down the right wing. And when they can't do that, they're the ones who end up taking the flack by some supporters. Juan Mata is still fine as a backup for the number 10 role, I think, but he isn't a right winger. And Dan James was never intended to be more than a prospect getting a bit of game time, but he's been thrown out on the deep end on too many occasions - and I think it's hampering his development (been looking low on confidence for some time now).

I'm inclined to agree

 

[Eriku]

Fletcher was one of the worst. That was really bad at one stage

Oh my God, I remember that. Would never get in the team if he weren’t Fergie’s adopted son. Even when he started becoming an integral part of our team you had entrenched arseholes who wouldn’t let up.

First that comes to mind for me at this point in time is AWB.

 

[Borys]

Of course. I am happy to keep him also. I am curious as to who the ideal partner would be for him.

I don't think there is an ideal partner to be honest, just a good overall CB with decent pace is enough. Lindelof is OK, not great but not our biggest issue. Just too weak in the air. We need to look at the goals/chances we're conceding and try to address that. So far since the Pog-Drop we're doing very good defensively, Lindelof is just too easy to beat in the air.

Regarding Maguire pace, I'd just play him in a back 3 if we're scared of counterattacks, which I believe we're doing already.

 

[Volumiza]

I feel we have different opinions on where our defence lie and that's ok.

Of course it’s ok mate. Pointless it not being eh?

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Park imo, or specifically the Park defence used to defend the players in the squad who’s skill seem to just be to run around aimlessly like James and Lingard: “he’s our new Park”. Ignoring that Park ran around but was a performer at the top level

 

[Crustanoid]

It’s basically every player.

Take a quick look on any single page of a match thread and you will encounter the sheer lunacy of swathes of entitled weirdos

 

[poleglass red]

a bit off topic, but talking of things that get a raw deal, lentil soup, had some last night, it was some kind of middle eastern style lentil soup, very nice.Nice piece of crusty baguette to dip in it, all is good.

 

[drmuji]

James
Lingard

They get the most critism by far mostly for not being Ronaldo or Messi

To be fair, Lingard has brought this on himself. Bringing merchandise, making comments like dance floor about Emirates Stadium. When you do things to yourself then you better be good.
The only players in my opinion who can do such stuff are Messi, Ronaldo and probably Mbappe. Simply because they are good enough and can carry the weight of merchandise and off field stuff

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

If I was a player the last place I would come is on this forum. As soon as you have a bad game the morons would be out in force and the spite and bile would follow.

George Best, Bobby Charlton, Ryan Giggs, Roy Keane and others have all had bad games and indifferent spells...they would be lambasted by some of the idiots on here.

So to answer the question...virtually every player gets a 'raw deal' on this site but I would say James, Pogba and Lingard get the most.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Seems to have only been mentioned twice in this thread but I think Young is a very good shout. He gave his all for the club and I just don't think he was as appreciated as other players who were similarly versatile and became sort of cult heroes.

I hope one day is can return to Old Trafford and get a good reception.

With Young it was more about what he represented.

We sold Ronaldo and lost Tevez. Signed Valencia who did very well for 3 years, then signed Young 2 years later good player but a huge step down. Add to that he then got converted to FB, because we couldn’t be arsed to buy actual full backs.

It represented all that was bad about the Glazer takeover and was the first time the austerity started to obviously effect us.

 

[Foxbatt]

Fellaini. He always get bashed and the only player who was booed when coming on.
Currently it's Maguire. Before that Lindelof. Pogba's case is different as he gets slated because he doesn't look like he is trying or wants to be at United. The other players never show anything other than commitment but sometimes have bad games and it's not due to lack of effort or talking about leaving for another club.

 

[jem]

James
Lingard

They get the most critism by far mostly for not being Ronaldo or Messi

I think they get criticized for not being the requisite quality for a team with title aspirations.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Maguire slating on the Caf reminds of Carrick arrival in 2006. United paid 16M; many posters were enraged. Michael received a lot of abuse during the (eventually very successful) season and even during a couple of the following seasons. People expected a new Keane. Maguire is not a VVD, Carrick was not a Keane.

 

[The_Midfielder]

Keiran Richardson

 

[fps]

I thought United fans were really harsh on Nani and we were all probably too impatient with Fletcher.

Nobody from the current lot.

Nani was very Martial-like to me, sometimes phenomenal, sometimes didn’t fancy it or got knocked out of a game easily.

Agree on Fletcher.

 

[bsCallout]

McTominay >

 

[patty123]

This might be controversial but I feel since we started getting consistently successful under Fergie; fans were less patient with players who came through the club ranks compared to bought players.

Tell that to poborsky, jordi cruyff, barthez, bosnich, nani, veron to name but a few. And then look at the time given to players like butt, phil neville, Fletch and rightly so, as not all are going too come in regardless wether from the youth set up or bought and play like Le King, or more recently Bruno, but our fan base as some one in an earlier post stated "some of our fans are weird" remember 03/05 when they wanted Giggs out, madness gone mad that one was.

 

[fps]

Maguire slating on the Caf reminds of Carrick arrival in 2006. United paid 16M; many posters were enraged. Michael received a lot of abuse during the (eventually very successful) season and even during a couple of the following seasons. People expected a new Keane. Maguire is not a VVD, Carrick was not a Keane.

I like this, but.... we can say this if Maguire proves integral in a team that wins things. That’s ultimately what got people off Carrick’s back. Maguire is fine, as someone else noted there aren’t many great CBS around now and the position has changed somewhat.

 

[Red00012]

Everyone who plays regularly.

This

Fernandes thread is very embarrassing at the beginning of the season

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

I like this, but.... we can say this if Maguire proves integral in a team that wins things. That’s ultimately what got people off Carrick’s back. Maguire is fine, as someone else noted there aren’t many great CBS around now and the position has changed somewhat.

Fair enough. I, personally, have no doubts this team will turn out to be very good.

 

[fps]

Fair enough. I, personally, have no doubts this team will turn out to be very good.

I really hope so! Gotta sort that midfield balance!

 

[ReallyUSA]

Ole gave these muppets lucrative contracts. Ole is too loyal. That's his only fault.

Jones had to be planned before Ole got the job officially

 

[lsd]

I like this, but.... we can say this if Maguire proves integral in a team that wins things. That’s ultimately what got people off Carrick’s back. Maguire is fine, as someone else noted there aren’t many great CBS around now and the position has changed somewhat.

Carrick had Ronaldo, Rooney and co though.

 

[Amerifan]

Ours.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Someone should create a counter thread with what players get away with murder on the CAF.

What ever player you’re discussing you’re bound to find someone who thinks you’re overly critical or over defensive. It’s just what’s going to happen on such a large forum.

Personally I think Shaw, Fred, possibly Martial get over the top critiscim on a more regular basis. Then there are players like Bissaka or McT that get targeted on occasion because they play in a different way From what people expect/

Where as for me Maguire, Rashford and to some extent Bruno get away with murder. More so Rashford.

 

[fps]

Carrick had Ronaldo, Rooney and co though.

Yes and it’s easy to see how much vitriol the like of Park and Fortune would have got if they’d been first teamers rather than first team squad players.

 

[JTW95]

Maguire for me. Everyone loves to mention how much he cost like its his fault!

I agree he isn't worth what we paid for him but Jesus christ we don't need to keep hearing about it!

 

[Thaila-X]

Maguire. I'm sure people think he should be as good as Rio on the ball and have Vidic's ruthless defensive abilities.

 

[Gator Nate]

Pretty much every player that plays for United.

Sometimes even, when we're slagging off a player from another team, I check to see if they used to play for us.

 

[Falcow]

Lindelöf is the first one that springs to mind. He's a key part of a defence that on the whole has been pretty good throughout last season and this, but he gets no love on here and he doesn't really make that many mistakes. He isn't Baresi and he never will be, but he's better than he gets given credit for.

Good post, fully agree with that.