Pochettino watch | PSG Manager (18 month contract)

spiriticon

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Erm... you’ve got this wrong @spiriticon

We have all been taking the piss that more meaningless trophies, mean less.
No one actually think Poch’s title at PSG mean anything.

My entire argument is that I will be much more impressed with Ole finishing second this season than anything he has previously done in his career, in the same way I will be much more impressed with what Poch did at Spurs than if he wins the league and a couple of tin pot cups at PSG.
Fair dos. I agree the Norwegian League isn't a stellar example of footballing holy grail, but the fact Molde had never won it before Ole took the reins did show that Ole had a little bit in him to set up winning a infrastructure and culture. Maybe it won't be enough to win the Premier League and CL, who knows, but so far so good.

For Poch, the acid test in the CL. PSG already has a winning culture in their domestic competitions so there is nothing new to set up there. In fact if he doesn't win the league it will be more of a shock.
 

OleBoiii

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PSG will win that farmer's league regardless of who's charge at this stage. Cushiest manager job in the world.
 

Champ

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Well it stopped me in my tracks for sure, finished me right off in the debate. How can one even begin to respond to that?
Maybe by pinpointing exactly what is incorrect about what I posted?

Maybe he just got the Cardiff job because of his connection with the club? :lol: Or maybe just because they thought he was nice?
Or maybe they saw he won trophies in another league and thought they'd give him a chance because of his track record at Molde?
Who knows eh, but carry on regardless.
 
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Fair dos. I agree the Norwegian League isn't a stellar example of footballing holy grail, but the fact Molde had never won it before Ole took the reins did show that Ole had a little bit in him to set up winning a infrastructure and culture. Maybe it won't be enough to win the Premier League and CL, who knows, but so far so good.

For Poch, the acid test in the CL. PSG already has a winning culture in their domestic competitions so there is nothing new to set up there. In fact if he doesn't win the league it will be more of a shock.
You're basically placing a man in a position to fail though, SAF managed just 2 CL titles in 20 years of English football dominance. PSG play in a league where they rarely come up against top opposition and manager after manager, with much higher spends than Poch will be allowed, have failed at that test.

Guardiola has failed time and time again since leaving Barca, at that test, despite managing Bayern and spending incredible sums of money.

I think it's better to judge managers on how well they do with the talent/budget they have, rather than trophies. No doubt Ole did a great job in Norway, just as Steve McLaren won trophies in Holland and a League Cup in England, but I'll say it again, Ole finishing second this season will eclipse all of that for me.
If you'd watch Ole finish 2nd this season, and reach a CL final in his time at United and still come to the conclusion that his Molde time was a bigger achievement, fair play to you, I certainly won't.
 
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Maybe by pinpointing exactly what is incorrect about what I posted?

Maybe he just got the Cardiff job because of his connection with the club? :lol: Or maybe just because they thought he was nice?
Or maybe they saw he won trophies in another league and thought they'd give him a chance because of his track record at Molde?
Who knows eh, but carry on regardless.
He got offered the job at the worst team in the Premier League, what is it that you don't understand?

That's what Norwegian leagues titles get you, that's the bloody point man. So whilst any league in any country is an achievement, you are probably one of very few that would consider a Norwegian league title a bigger achievement than a CL final. That's your prerogative though.
 

spiriticon

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You're basically placing a man in a position to fail though, SAF managed just 2 CL titles in 20 years of English football dominance. PSG play in a league where they rarely come up against top opposition and manager after manager, with much higher spends than Poch will be allowed, have failed at that test.

Guardiola has failed time and time again since leaving Barca, at that test, despite managing Bayern and spending incredible sums of money.

I think it's better to judge managers on how well they do with the talent/budget they have, rather than trophies. No doubt Ole did a great job in Norway, just as Steve McLaren won trophies in Holland and a League Cup in England, but I'll say it again, Ole finishing second this season will eclipse all of that for me.
If you'd watch Ole finish 2nd this season, and reach a CL final in his time at United and still come to the conclusion that his Molde time was a bigger achievement, fair play to you, I certainly won't.
I don't think anyone expects Poch to win it every year, but just doing it once will solidify his reputation as a manager who can pass that last hurdle. For me, Poch really should have beaten Leicester to the league in 2016. What an opportunity wasted. The CL final against Liverpool was always hard, I didn't expect him to win that.

I think both Ole and Poch are probably consistent enough to get top 4 finishes regularly in the Premier League. The question is whether they have it in them to take us past the final hurdles to a major trophy. Neither of which have proven that in their careers in English football.

The problem is I'm not sure winning Ligue 1 with PSG does prove they have a skillset needed to win the Premier League or CL. Winning Ligue 1 with Marseille or Monaco, yes definitely. But PSG? Hmmm not sure. I'd rate it alongside Neil Lennon's 5 Scottish titles with Celtic probably.
 
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That’s too simplistic an argument for me, just because it was Leicester City. Spurs were no way near one of the top three favourites for the league at the beginning of the year, and that season they improved their points total from the previous season by six points.

Leicester lost only three games all year, let’s not forget that just because it was Leicester City.

It sounds like an opportunity missed just because of the side that won it, but only once in the entire history of the Premier League have Tottenham won more points than Leicester that season. That was 86 points by Poch’s team, a further 6 point improvement on the previous year, but unfortunately for Poch/Spurs, Chelsea managed over 90 points.
 

Champ

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He got offered the job at the worst team in the Premier League, what is it that you don't understand?

That's what Norwegian leagues titles get you, that's the bloody point man. So whilst any league in any country is an achievement, you are probably one of very few that would consider a Norwegian league title a bigger achievement than a CL final. That's your prerogative though.
He's now managing one of the biggest clubs in the world right now, and sits top of the league...Thats what winning the Norweigian League gets you :lol:

I consider actaully winning something a bigger achievement then getting through to a final and putting in an abject performance. As I say, it is all relative anyhow - Molde massively over reached in Europe under Ole but no one ever mentions that.
People on here used to laugh at Wenger for claiming he won a trophy by finishing top four and getting into a champions league final, yet here people are claiming Poch had a good run at Spurs becasue he did likewise. Strange indeed.
 
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No, Ole got the caretaker job as an ex player after getting no great offers for years since Cardiff, it was his performance as caretaker that got him the United job and now has him top of the league.

Wenger got laughed at because he went from winning leagues to being happy with top four. Poch took Spurs to their best ever finish in the Premier League and best ever finish in the Champions League.

If you can’t spot that difference there is no hope for you, and as I say, if you genuinely believe Ole’s achievements in Norway would match a second place finished with United this year and a CL final during his reign, well that’s your prerogative, but I think that’s stupid.

I think the job Ole is currently doing in this league with moneybags Chelsea, City and Jörgen Klopp is far more impressive than anything he has previously shown in Norway.
 
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horsechoker

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No, Ole got the caretaker job as an ex player after getting no great offers for years since Cardiff, it was his performance as caretaker that got him the United job and has him top of the league.

Wenger got laughed at because he went from winning leagues to being happy with top four. Poch took Spurs to their best ever finish in the Premier League and best ever finish in the Champions League.
And now he manages farmers :wenger:
 
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And now he manages farmers :wenger:
I just think some of the debates in here are beyond fecking belief, we’re honestly arguing that a guy taking a team to their best ever finish (second) in the Premier League and their first ever Champions League final is less impressive then someone winning a league in Norway.

Poch came second in a league with Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger, Guardiola, Conte.

Ole won against Per Mathias Høgmo, Jan Jönsson et al.

feck me this level of debate :lol:
 

Dec9003

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I just think some of the debates in here are beyond fecking belief, we’re honestly arguing that a guy taking a team to their best ever finish (second) in the Premier League and their first ever Champions League final is less impressive then someone winning a league in Norway.

Poch came second in a league with Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger, Guardiola, Conte.

Ole won against Per Mathias Høgmo, Jan Jönsson et al.

feck me this level of debate :lol:
Ole also got Molde through a Europa league group that had Ajax in it, Poch has never got Molde through the Europa league group ergo Ole is better. ;)
 

Champ

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I just think some of the debates in here are beyond fecking belief, we’re honestly arguing that a guy taking a team to their best ever finish (second) in the Premier League and their first ever Champions League final is less impressive then someone winning a league in Norway.

Poch came second in a league with Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger, Guardiola, Conte.

Ole won against Per Mathias Høgmo, Jan Jönsson et al.

feck me this level of debate :lol:
It's all relative.

Something we have both stated.

Ole didn't have Kane, Son, Lloris etc, due to, you know, being in the Norwegian league. Winning two titles in a row with a team that were consistent underachievers is a very good achievement, kind of similar to Poch at spurs, but Poch didn't actually bwin anything. Such a good achievement that Ole turned down job offers from the premier League at the time.

I mean you have your opinion and that's fine, but trying to belittle the simple fact that Ole has achieved more than quite a lot of managers in the game, including Poch, is like shouting at a cloud, pointless and a little crazy.

But please do carry on.
 

lysglimt

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For Poch, the acid test in the CL. PSG already has a winning culture in their domestic competitions so there is nothing new to set up there. In fact if he doesn't win the league it will be more of a shock.
Winning culture at PSG ? They dont have competition - that's not the same thing as having a winning culture.
 

He'sRaldo

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I just think some of the debates in here are beyond fecking belief, we’re honestly arguing that a guy taking a team to their best ever finish (second) in the Premier League and their first ever Champions League final is less impressive then someone winning a league in Norway.

Poch came second in a league with Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger, Guardiola, Conte.

Ole won against Per Mathias Høgmo, Jan Jönsson et al.

feck me this level of debate :lol:
Don't debate with people who argue in bad faith, it's an impossible task (as I'm sure you're currently seeing).
 

always_hoping

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The problem is I'm not sure winning Ligue 1 with PSG does prove they have a skillset needed to win the Premier League or CL. Winning Ligue 1 with Marseille or Monaco, yes definitely. But PSG? Hmmm not sure. I'd rate it alongside Neil Lennon's 5 Scottish titles with Celtic probably.
I'd fancy Steve Bruce to win the League title for PSG this season, as you say winning the French league with another team would be a far greater achievement, Blanc with Bordeaux springs to mind.
 

el3mel

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I'd fancy Steve Bruce to win the League title for PSG this season, as you say winning the French league with another team would be a far greater achievement, Blanc with Bordeaux springs to mind.
Did you take a look at the league table? Because it has been pretty damn close race so far. Definitely not a walk in the park for PSG like it has been last few years.
 

Sayros

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Did you take a look at the league table? Because it has been pretty damn close race so far. Definitely not a walk in the park for PSG like it has been last few years.
This is a weird year for pretty much every league, not sure it says much about the long-term competitiveness of the league.
 

always_hoping

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Did you take a look at the league table? Because it has been pretty damn close race so far. Definitely not a walk in the park for PSG like it has been last few years.
Yes and that's why Tuchel was sacked. should be no race in that league for PSG.
 

alexthelion

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I’m not bitching, I’m saying Poch did a good job at Spurs.
Ole is currently doing a good job at United.
If Ole matches Poch Spurs achievements at United, 2nd and CL final, it’ll clearly be the achievement of his career. It will ensure that he will get much better job offers than Cardiff City if he does move on from Manchester United. Likely he'd be in the frame for some very good jobs, just as Poch was after his Spurs spell.

But winning a Norwegian title means very little, just as winning a title for PsG. To make out one has achieved something the other hasn't by comparing a Norwegian league win with a CL final or Premier League 2nd placed finish is well.... as daft as making out that a league win in France will elevate Poch somehow.

See that middle ground right there, that no fecker here wants to concede?
Didn't Ole win Molde a trophy they'd never won before in their history? Seems a bit of an achievement to me.
 

alexthelion

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more to come for the best manager in football. Not required to win any significant trophies at Spurs, but still manage to get the Audi cup. Now, he is Working with elite talent which will improve him as a manager. Looking at Spurs struggling, it just shows how great Pochettino accomplishment was at Spurs.

I don’t have much hope for Ole only that the board is supporting him with great players. After psg, he can still come to United and fortify us as one of the best team in Europe.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

alexthelion

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Nah, he took over a team that finished 6th, had money to spend and had finished the season very strongly indeed.
They were far from a mess.
And also, they only once looked likely to win a trophy, only once did they challenge and that was the Champions league final.
Agreed. I really don't know where this idea thart Spurs were terrible when he took over comes from, they were far from that, league wise he improved them on average by about one place. Such an achievement.
 

OleBoiii

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Imagine being top of the league with a club legend in charge, a likeable squad and entertaining football and then still drooling over Pochettino in that farmer's league :lol:
 

The Mitcher

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Imagine being top of the league with a club legend in charge, a likeable squad and entertaining football and then still drooling over Pochettino in that farmer's league :lol:
They aren't United fans, they are Pochettino fans. They are only slightly more annoying than those who still cannot admit that Ole clearly is the man for the job, and that the jury is not out.
 

InterFan1998

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Imagine being top of the league with a club legend in charge, a likeable squad and entertaining football and then still drooling over Pochettino in that farmer's league :lol:
Every league is a farmer’s league given than over 50% of the teams in each league are pure garbage. West Ham and Aston Villa are in the top 1 and both teams are terrrible. Not to get started with the bottom 10 teams. Same goes for Serie A

Ligue 1’s 7th placed team destroyed EPL’s 2nd best team last year.

Pochettino has picked up a winner’s mentality over his time of given that he won a trophy. He’s now officially a winner.
 

InterFan1998

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Imagine being top of the league with a club legend in charge, a likeable squad and entertaining football and then still drooling over Pochettino in that farmer's league :lol:
Every league is a farmer’s league given than over 50% of the teams in each league are pure garbage.
 

Acheron

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Imagine being top of the league with a club legend in charge, a likeable squad and entertaining football and then still drooling over Pochettino in that farmer's league :lol:
Is weird how people are so obsessed with him even if he's already employed by PSG, to be fair I do think that he's clearly the superior manager but like you said Manchester United are in a good spot currently.
 

The Mitcher

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Every league is a farmer’s league given than over 50% of the teams in each league are pure garbage.
No, a farmer's league is like Scotland, France, Italy and Germany where one team basically wins the league 9 times of 10 every season. In the premier league I think only United, Chelsea and City have been able to retain the trophy more than once in the past 15 plus years. Most of the time last decade the trophy went from team to team, we never had a truly dominant team like United and Liverpool of old. Even in those hey days they weren't winning the league at the same rate as Bayern or Juve do.

Pochettino has picked up a winner’s mentality over his time of given that he won a trophy. He’s now officially a winner.
How does someone gain a winners mentality by not winning trophies? :lol:
 

OleBoiii

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They aren't United fans, they are Pochettino fans. They are only slightly more annoying than those who still cannot admit that Ole clearly is the man for the job, and that the jury is not out.
:lol:

feck me am I glad we didn't go for him. Some absolute maniacs the fan boys of that guy.
It's a cult, really :lol:

Winning domestic trophies with PSG:

 

Halftrack

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Not for Spurs though in the state they were in when he took over. Bottom half of the table with a god awful squad. I cba going into all the details but just research the team Poch inherited at Spurs, they had no right up against Chelsea, City and Ourselves to be winning trophies, it was remarkable how far he took them.
Yeah, no.
 

Castia

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Yeah, no.
Errrm, yeah?

Spurs had one top 4 finish in the PL era before Poch and he had a basic budget, in what world should he be challenging City, United and Chelsea to titles?

Dele just joined from Mk Dons
Kane returned from multiple mediocre loan spells
Lamela was a massive flop after they sold Bale the summer before
Players like Capou, Townsend and Adebayor we’re regular starters for that Spurs side, his squad was full of mediocre talent.
 
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Castia

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Poch spent £400m in total, of just under that, in his 5 years as manager, that's a hefty amount, this fallacy that he never spent is strange. He loves a transfer does Poch, and majority of then have been awful but this could be down to the transfer team at Spurs.
We were not a benchmark back then, Woodward was on his Galactico campaign, and we actually won trophies during that time.
Poch picked them up when they finished 6th, and were the form team at the end of the season.
He left them 14th and struggling.
In between that he had one very good season and one very good champions League run, but zero trophies despite the financial outlay.
In that time Arsenal have also won trophies, Leicester have won the league, with limited budgets. It is possible to do so!!
Yeah and probably sold 300m+ worth of players, his net spend compared to the ‘top clubs’ was nowhere near. He was selling the likes of Paulinho and Wimmer to replace them with Alderweirald and Son.
 

The Mitcher

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It's a cult, really :lol:

Winning domestic trophies with PSG:

:lol: I honestly don't understand why it HAD to be Poch above all others for these people.

Yeah and probably sold 300m+ worth of players, his net spend compared to the ‘top clubs’ was nowhere near. He was selling the likes of Paulinho and Wimmer to replace them with Alderweirald and Son.
You do realise it was Poch who BOUGHT Wimmer in the 2015-2016 season? In fact it was his first signing of that window and then that was followed a month or two later...by Alderweirald. Son was bought to replace Paulinho, really? They didn't even play the same positions at the time. Paulinho was a central midfielder, Son was and is a forward. At least get your facts right before you start spouting such drivel to make Poch sound better than he actually was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Transfers_in
 

Castia

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:lol: I honestly don't understand why it HAD to be Poch above all others for these people.



You do realise it was Poch who BOUGHT Wimmer in the 2015-2016 season? In fact it was his first signing of that window and then that was followed a month or two later...by Alderweirald. Son was bought to replace Paulinho, really? They didn't even play the same positions at the time. Paulinho was a central midfielder, Son was and is a forward. At least get your facts right before you start spouting such drivel to make Poch sound better than he actually was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Transfers_in
I was just using random players he sold to build a budget for the players he brought in, I wasn’t trying to pinpoint player for player replacements. Obviously Paulinho is a midfielder and Son a winger, I didn’t think I needed to explain that, Jesus.

Spent 400m and sold around 300m worth of players in his time at Spurs. He actually had a bigger net spend at Southampton yet was still in the mix at the top.
 

Halftrack

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Errrm, yeah?

Spurs had one top 4 finish in the PL era before Poch and he had a basic budget, in what world should he be challenging City, United and Chelsea to titles?

Dele just joined from Mk Dons
Kane returned from multiple mediocre loan spells
Lamela was a massive flop after they sold Bake the summer before
Players like Capou and Adebayor we’re regular starters for that Spurs side,his squad was full of mediocre talent.

Then his budget compared to those clubs was minimal, I’ll say it again he had no right challenging the way he did.
"Spurs had one top 4 finish in the PL era before Poch" is such a disingenuous way of putting it. It's also wrong. They had two top four finishes, both in the five seasons leading up to Poch's appointment. In these five seasons, their average league finish was 5th.

So clearly they weren't bottom half, nor did they have a god-awful squad. They had a lot of dross, sort of like us, that needed to be shipped out, but they also had a lot of quality. Vertonghen, Eriksen, Dembele, Rose (before he went to shit), Walker and Lloris were all key for him at some point. Kane hit the ground running when he was given a proper chance, so I'd include him as well. Chadli was also very good that first season under Poch, but went to shit afterwards.

Adebayor had been exiled under AVB, but Sherwood brought him back and I think, by the end, he was starting on merit. 14 goals and 5 assists in 25 games isn't a bad return, but he's also known for just deciding to stop giving a shit, so not a player you want to have to rely on. Capoue was never a regular starter for them.

As for whether they should be challenging us, City and Chelsea for titles? I mean, did they? They had that very good season where they finished second. At one point, towards the end, they were only 3 points off Chelsea. That being said, it was always Chelsea's title to lose, but they did push them until (almost) the very end, so I think it qualifies as a challenge. Aside from that, though? Us, City and Chelsea (and Liverpool) all went through periods of being gash while he was at Spurs, and Arsenal collapsed completely during his tenure. I think it's fair to point out that breaking into the top 4 had never been easier than during his tenure.

He's a good manager who did a good job at Spurs, but his job and his accomplishments tends to be blown way out of proportion. If you were to listen to his most ardent fans, he took a mid-table side and turned them into title challengers. He did neither of those things.
 
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