Please god let them play together for atleast 1 game. That's all I ask.
Pogba and Fernandes
- Thread starter IrishRedDevil
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Of course technically saying it's possible.
I just said as both have the same movements and preferences one must sacrifice if Ole play both. The question is who and this will be the most difficult part imho.
Multiple AM, remind me of England, with Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, and who else? Did we manage to play them successfully?
We do not play a flat 4-4-2.
Our current 433, or big game 532, only accommodate 3 MF. If necessary we can sacrifice 1 of the winger/striker role but probably not a good idea if everyone fit and available. With 3MF, we have just found our best blend, 1 DMF, 1 Box2Box MF, 3rd one can be another B2B if cautious or AMF preferred.
Fielding 2x AMF doesn't work, unless 1 player is WILLING to, or sacrificed to play the B2B role. Not saying Pogba can't do that, he can, if and when he likes it. Haven't you guys suffered enough in the past 3 seasons? When we find a winning combination, don't change it. Pick whoever is the best for a particular role, until someone get injury, or when rotation require.
It's a nice idea. On paper these two with one of Fred/McT is very good, if Pogba finds his motivation again and can play a disciplined role while spraying passes from deep I think we'd be a forward or two away from having a strong 11.
I'm not sure he has it in him, or if he would be willing to sacrifice his natural style for the team but he has the tools. I don't see him staying so hopefully we can sign someone like Zakaria who I think would compliment Fred and Bruno well and balance the midfield perfectly.
I'm not sure he has it in him, or if he would be willing to sacrifice his natural style for the team but he has the tools. I don't see him staying so hopefully we can sign someone like Zakaria who I think would compliment Fred and Bruno well and balance the midfield perfectly.
Yes, but we haven't found a winning formula yet have we? We havent played 3 games in a row with the same players / formation yet.
We are a team that looks to have alot of flexibility in systems. We can play the 5-3-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3.
We play with 2 defensive full backs which means we can have Pogba and Bruno if need be. Pogba has played box to box before and Bruno is capable of it too.
Pogba-Fernandezs would be amazing if there was someone as disciplined as Kante behind them - essentially you're doing the Casemiro, Kroos, Modric type midfield but with more dynamic players who are probably slightly technicaly weaker which is probably better suited the PL.
My issue with that pairing is I think you lose out on Fred's skillset, which is essentially non stop running and carrying attacks forward - and I also don't think McSauce is best as a DM. The balance we have at the moment seems ok. My issue, as always, with Pogba is any roadbumps and he's causing drama and I believe that the major reason we have this feel good aura at the moment, is because he's not playing. Bruno has come in and breathed some life into the club, fred's been playing well for a while, Matic even looks decent again and McT is developing well.
The old Man Utd would cram Pogba back in and try to force the midfield to work but I don't see any rush for him to be reintegrated a) he's been out for ages and needs to get match fit which takes time b) does he actually want to be here? c) our midfield for the first time in ages actually looks balanced, why change it? For the first time he might actualy feel like his place is under threat with us and he'll either knuckle down or he'll try to leave again.
My issue with that pairing is I think you lose out on Fred's skillset, which is essentially non stop running and carrying attacks forward - and I also don't think McSauce is best as a DM. The balance we have at the moment seems ok. My issue, as always, with Pogba is any roadbumps and he's causing drama and I believe that the major reason we have this feel good aura at the moment, is because he's not playing. Bruno has come in and breathed some life into the club, fred's been playing well for a while, Matic even looks decent again and McT is developing well.
The old Man Utd would cram Pogba back in and try to force the midfield to work but I don't see any rush for him to be reintegrated a) he's been out for ages and needs to get match fit which takes time b) does he actually want to be here? c) our midfield for the first time in ages actually looks balanced, why change it? For the first time he might actualy feel like his place is under threat with us and he'll either knuckle down or he'll try to leave again.
You would have to play Matic behind them.
Would be great to see. I would play McT, Pogs and Bruno. Fred can offer respite for any of those from a more defensive space. Be great if we could keep all four and add another, with real quality and hunger.
But I feel Pogs has already gone to be honest, and I hope the club are looking to sort out replacement. Grealish would be fun, although I do see a little clash position wise with Bruno.
But I feel Pogs has already gone to be honest, and I hope the club are looking to sort out replacement. Grealish would be fun, although I do see a little clash position wise with Bruno.
It will cost us £5m so I doubt it
I think the only way it works is if Pogba plays a similar role to Matic, with Fred asked to be more concentrated on defense so Pogba can at least go forward a bit.
There is no way we can consistently play with Matic, Fred, Pogba and Fernandes, at least until Rashford is back. It should be tried of course, but I don't see it being overly successful, unless it is used against particular opposition tactics that would be vulnerable to us playing mostly through the middle.
There is no way we can consistently play with Matic, Fred, Pogba and Fernandes, at least until Rashford is back. It should be tried of course, but I don't see it being overly successful, unless it is used against particular opposition tactics that would be vulnerable to us playing mostly through the middle.
Considering how Mata and Bruno have played together, I've no doubt that this would work (even if Pogba and Mata are very different players). Bruno seems to thrive off having further quality in the team. It's probably the best way of breaking down teams who sit back.
Why are we still discussing Pogba like he's essential to us?
He's been inconsistent throughout his time here, he's actively angling for a move, he's mysteriously "injured" and his agent is trash talking us at every opportunity. He's a nobody.
In pure footballing terms, he doesnt deserve his place back in the team. When you add in his off field agenda, he's not somebody we should want anywhere near our team.
He's a commercial asset, not a footballing asset. We are working hard as a team currently and have a good morale, why ruin that by adding pogba back in? He's a detrimental character, not a team player.
Fernandes has hit the ground running, lets not shape our team to "get the best out of Pogba" because thats been tried for 3 seasons and it does not work
He's been inconsistent throughout his time here, he's actively angling for a move, he's mysteriously "injured" and his agent is trash talking us at every opportunity. He's a nobody.
In pure footballing terms, he doesnt deserve his place back in the team. When you add in his off field agenda, he's not somebody we should want anywhere near our team.
He's a commercial asset, not a footballing asset. We are working hard as a team currently and have a good morale, why ruin that by adding pogba back in? He's a detrimental character, not a team player.
Fernandes has hit the ground running, lets not shape our team to "get the best out of Pogba" because thats been tried for 3 seasons and it does not work
I agree. Better pro, too.
You have said what others on here would like to say, but haven't got the bottle. Well done. I hope we leave him out of the team also.
Have a feeling this partnership will have as much mileage (and be as pleasant to watch) as the Kagawa & Mata link-up of legend.
Go and ask any fan, I think we have found our best formation(s), possibly best 9 or best 10 pending injury recovery.
If you mean playing both Pogba and Bruno, I assume you mean 532 with Matic as DMF, Pogba and Bruno in front. What about Fred? If Pogba gets his mind to play, he can replace Fred, more attacking but less defensive capability. But when we play 532, it generally mean big game, cautious, hence prefer the extra steel in the middle. Fred has proven himself a capable passer of the ball and good in rhythm control, Pogba has yet to prove himself, consistently game after game, and throughout 90min.
And, it came back to my point, 1 of them, being Pogba, must be willing to change his game, in order to accommodate Bruno. Is the nice feather bird ready to sacrifice himself? I know he can, for France, just never see him in the red shirt.
I think best way would be 4-4-2 diamond. We usually play through the middle better anyway. Pogba and Fred as cm, McTom/Matic as cdm, Bruno as cam, and Martial + Rashford as strikers. This lineup would be world-class imo, with a more interceptive/defensive Fred to balance a more attack Pogba in midfield besides McTom.
If Pogba is playing well he can get around the pitch, Bruno gets all around the pitch, Fred gets all around the pitch, as does McTominay. Maybe you push Pogba a bit further up so he has less defensive work to do, but if they're all disciplined in as much as they make sure there's always one of them behind the ball, then I don't see why we can't play a midfield three with both Bruno and Pogba and one of Fred and Scott. Or you have Matic playing behind both OR You could feasibly play a 4-4-2 diamond with split strikers offering us a bit more width.
------Matic-----
Bruno-------Fred
-------Pogba-----
Trying to fit both of them in the team is not a bad problem to have, nor is it impossible.
------Matic-----
Bruno-------Fred
-------Pogba-----
Trying to fit both of them in the team is not a bad problem to have, nor is it impossible.
People keep using France NT to justify Pogba in midfield 2. France played with two DMs/B2B, Kante and Matuidi (more attacking). I'm not sure why this fact is easily forgotten. Doesn't fit the narrative?
Now people keep saying Bruno as box to box. I mean, really? Finally we have the best no. 10 for the last 7 years, and turn him into box to box? Speechless..
Now people keep saying Bruno as box to box. I mean, really? Finally we have the best no. 10 for the last 7 years, and turn him into box to box? Speechless..
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No if my memory serves me right. Scholes didn't play much as well since England was playing 4-4-2 at that time I think, what a terrible mistake. And both Lampard and Gerrard were not exactly AM imo. Scholes of course was not. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Of course it's impossible to see what future lies. However atm Pogba won't be effective as Matic as a DM, Fred as a B2B imo. And he can't provide us the balance, pressing and defensive work Bruno is currently providing. Probably more creativity but that alone can't make up for his lacking in pressing, tracking back and defensive duties. It's super hard to debate whether Bruno or Pogba is better but imo a midfield of Matic-Fred-Bruno is better than a midfield of Matic-Fred-Pogba atm.
Imo the signing of Bruno means 99% Pogba gonna leave in the summer. You can't have a player of his calibre and expecting him to not be included in the first XI. He just won't accept that and he already wants out. Maybe short time Ole will find a way to integrate both but long term my bet is Pogba will leave in the summer. Hope we can find a buyer that would cough up +100 £m, maybe PSG?
By the way, it's amazing how a signing has turned things around for us. Just 6 weeks ago we were crying for a midfielder, to a point that anyone would be welcomed. Now we're debating this. It's amazing.
Easily this for me. 4-4-2 diamond.
Pogba and McT working as B2B midfielders with McT with more defensive responsibilities.
------Matic/Fred-----
McT/Fred-------Pogba
----------Bruno-----
Or
4-3-3
------Matic/Fred/McT
Bruno--------------------Pogba-----
Pogba and McT working as B2B midfielders with McT with more defensive responsibilities.
------Matic/Fred-----
McT/Fred-------Pogba
----------Bruno-----
Or
4-3-3
------Matic/Fred/McT
Bruno--------------------Pogba-----
I heard Bruno’s best position is B2B (number 8) so what about Bruno and SMT In CM with Pogba as AM behind striker ?
Interesting.
However with a diamond you'd need both your FB to be very complete for it to work well. Atm we don't have that I think.
And that 4-3-3 won't work imo, Bruno and Pogba are not winger or striker.
Me I would play 4-3-3 with Bruno on the right, Pogba on the left. I'll try Fred as a right winger. He's really fast, a good dribbler and has a decent left foot, his right foot is ok as well.
Matic
Bruno - Pogba
Fred - Martial - Rashford
IMO its very obvious Ole's knows Pogba and Bruno plays their best football in different formations. Pogba in the 4-3-3 and Bruno as the #10 in the 4-2-3-1.
One thing about Ole is that he knows very clearly every players' best position and he has no illusions about it. Will be interesting to see how he fits them in the team.
One thing about Ole is that he knows very clearly every players' best position and he has no illusions about it. Will be interesting to see how he fits them in the team.
Bruno has essentially taken Lingard/Perreira spot from Ole's preferred formation from the start of the season of 4-2-3-1 in which he played Pogba next to McT. I think he'll go back to that when Pogba is back. He'll see that as the way to build an attacking side that plays on the front foot against anyone, especially once Rashford is back and if they can recruit Sancho or another right side attacker or even let Greenwood loose on that side next season.
It will be tough on any 2 of Matic/McTominay/Fred that would have to sit out as they've done exceptionally well but, that's just going to be part of the give and take of being more defensive minded or more attacking.
It will be tough on any 2 of Matic/McTominay/Fred that would have to sit out as they've done exceptionally well but, that's just going to be part of the give and take of being more defensive minded or more attacking.
OK let's do some history lesson on England then. Lampard was clearly an AM, not? Stevie G was more all-rounded but due to lacking discipline, Beneditz preferred pushing SG to a #8 or roaming role. I recalled England did try Scholes as DMF (but on his own) which Scholes didn't enjoy and quitted. So there was long period of 4321, with a dedicated DM, Lampard and SG in front, Rooney plus a winger, behind a striker. Pardon my poor memory but that was what I can recall. I think it was during Euro or WC that even SG was dropped in order to have 2 wingers for a proper 4231
Now you can see how terrible it was to accommodate 2 attacking minded MF, without some sacrifice.
In the summer, I would take any cash offer as long as not player swapping.
Agree with pretty much all you said except for Lampard. I did quite some homework on him and his Chelsea at the time we signed Pogba and he had a similar position as Pogba at Juve imo. Imo he was not an AM but rather an advance B2B/ playmaker on the left:
Pretty much this. Somehow people have forgotten that Pogba plays deeper while Bruno has played as a 10 for us.
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Feck off.
Not you Footy Girl, Pogba.
Guy was and is toxic to our club.
So many were crying to not buy Dybala because he didn't want to come here. It is no different with Pogba. The guy has all but said he wanted out though his agents word, not once coming out and saying something to the contrary.
Also, usually when players are out injured, you see the occasional post of support via social media of a "good win boys, can't wait to be back" or something like that, guy has said buggerall and only doing his silly Pepsi and Lays promotional nonsense. You'd think our recent performances would make him come out and say something but no.
sO, While I would have LOVED to see how him and Bruno play, I just don't see how he can commit to us after all that's been done.
Right now, he is staying simply because there are no good enough offers probably, or no serious ones at least. We know RM wanted him, but they didn't want to stamp up the cash for whatever reason. So now he will want to come back just to sure up his transfer elsewhere. With a dozen or so games to go, he's not going to be able to do that, so he will be stuck with us for at least another season unless a team wants to by him regardless of his long period out the game, which is always a possibility.
As in we have found our formations but its hardly saying its a winning formula, we have won like 5 games. We need to be winning regular Prem games to say it is a winning formula.
At the moment, does Ole know his best team? I think over the last 2 weeks he knows the 8 players that would get in but question marks at the moment on LW and RW without Rashford.
In respects to Pogba, we have done alot for him, Ole tried to build a team around him, now he has to fit the team rather than the team fitting around him.
Put Fred behind them and we'll be fine against 80% of PL teams.
If we can manage to play Pereira and Lingard together in the same team, we can definitely fit 2 world class players in.
We can play both Matic and Fred with Pogba in a three, then Bruno can float in from the right. Our players playing from the right, Juan, Lingard, Pereira, really play in that half-space and they often have a free role. The wider point is that there is a solution. England played Dele and Lingard at CM with Henderson with success at the WC.
Pogba approves Bruno
Would be very exciting to see but pogba really needs to come out and make a positive statement and quell all the rumours. His silence is deafening at the moment.
I disagree. He should just come back head down and play rest of season.
Then if he is going go, nothing against him doing that. Completely reasonable.
Or if he is staying sign a new contract. Then if our fans still shit on him and boo him we will have a problem but it won't be Paul's fault for not making a statement.