[The Purley King]

HAve never been bothered less by a loss to arsenal.
We were by and large poor but they weren't any better. Fine margins as well as we could easily have been gifted a goal in the first half.
If they want to shout out from the rooftops then fair play but we are both finishing 5th and 6th and we will be the ones in the cl next year......
Oh ps. Please stay arsene!!

 

[Sentient Meat]

I actually was hoping Rooney would have a good game... wanting to see him go out on a high. Then I remember him taking a corner and blasting it across the face of the goal all the way to the other side. This started a break that almost resulted in a goal and I just had a bad feeling after that.

 

[David Court]

HAve never been bothered less by a loss to arsenal.
We were by and large poor but they weren't any better. Fine margins as well as we could easily have been gifted a goal in the first half.
If they want to shout out from the rooftops then fair play but we are both finishing 5th and 6th and we will be the ones in the cl next year......
Oh ps. Please stay arsene!!

Oh come on!

Maybe this game was a poor imitation of past titanic battles, but to suggest you were no worse than Arsenal is nonsense. After a dour and boring first half, Arsenal were by far the better team in the second.

 

[rpg]

Its those few games too many where we missed chances that are costing us the 4th place. As well as few games where we parked the bus. Not this game.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

That's how I saw it as well. Everyone piles on Rooney, and at times deserved, but seem to give everyone else a pass. Martial, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Carrick, etc., etc. did next to nothing as well. The only outfield player that impressed me at all was the kid.

It was a weird game today, of course i wanted us to win but i was more intrigued in how Jose set us up and how we performed under fatigue and away to a decent side who were under pressure themselves. I thought we battled well enough and we didn't get hammered by any standards, but there is still work to do.

I've said elsewhere on the forum that i have no problem setting up to contain and frustrate, but if we are going to go into big away games with that mentality then we must have a fast, deadly counter attack to back it up.

I wouldn't mind switching back to the system Fergie used to deploy especially when away in europe. It was essentially a 4-3-3 that would revert to a 4-5-1 when under pressure.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Fairly disgraceful performance which Jose obviously has to take blame for. Either he told the players the game wasn't important or whatever mind games he used didn't work.

Thought martial showed some fight early on at least. Hopefully becoming a different player. Seemed to respond badly to mourinho late in the game like every player but looked like he wanted it early.

Embarrassing that pre game 4 wins guaranteed us 4th and 3 wins would very likely get is there and we didn't try to win the game. Small mentality at a bit club. Makes me question if mourinho can last here or will he not fit like at other big clubs

 

[Freak]

Shit happens. Our forwards are useless. Smalling and Jones are useless. Other then that we were ok

 

[Jonno]

Fairly disgraceful performance which Jose obviously has to take blame for. Either he told the players the game wasn't important or whatever mind games he used didn't work.

So you would have played Rashford Valencia and Pogba?

He gets slated for resting and rotating his players and he would have got slated if he had run those three into the ground.

We've also lost the least amount of games in the entire league, with an average squad.

 

[RRCE]

I really belive we need a clear-out. Too many average players, too many broken souls by LVG and Moyes.

With another couple of windows, Jose will transform the roster. I have no doubt about that.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Oh come on!

Maybe this game was a poor imitation of past titanic battles, but to suggest you were no worse than Arsenal is nonsense. After a dour and boring first half, Arsenal were by far the better team in the second.

Thats being too generous. It was not like we were getting schooled in second half. They got a lucky goal pretty much walking around till then. Yes, they did well for the second goal. But it was never coming until the first goal. There was no consistent wave of attacks or anything from Arsenal afterwards.
Overall, one might argue that Arsenal were slightly better maybe, but as suggested, very fine margins.

 

[RedPnutz]

This thread is a car crash. Obviously we were going to suffer with so many key injuries and it was clear we are putting an emphasis on the Europa.

Arsenal are not mugs.

Fans are so kneejerk and spoilt it's unbelievable.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Thought we were alright, given the circumstances. Looked like two teams almost broken, though for different reasons.

 

[Jim Beam]

Thought we were alright, given the circumstances. Looked like two teams almost broken, though for different reasons.

This

 

[RedPnutz]

We were alright, in fact played well enough considering our defence.

People claim Arsenal were there for the taking. But the truth is Arsenal probably played in lower gear because we were a weakened team.

 

[Agni]

If Martial and Rooney finished those chances in the first half then we'd have come out with all three points. As it stood it was the lucky deflection which swung it Arsenals way. Fine margins.

 

[cacs]

Whats the point of having Pogba on the bench and going 2-0 down and still don't use him?

 

[sashiko]

I wholly disagree with the people who said this wasn't a bus-park job, we had players like Mata and Mkhitaryan playing in deep positions and pretty much everyone was playing behind the ball.

....And this begs the question: if Jose went into this game really expecting nothing from it or not really wanting to put out the commitment to win it, why play guys like Mkhitaryan and Rashford?

come on.. this was a childish excuse of a loser "We lost because it wasn't important". In fact, he just played another coward game plan driving creatve players into defence and something they shouldn't do. It could actually work to a draw as he hoped, but not this time. In this situstion I wonder at fans having a go at the players for their performance.

 

[sglowrider]

I have not been bothered by any loss to Arsenal ever since we lost to them in the FA Cup final in 2006(?) The biggest travesty in modern football history.

 

[wc18]

I don't know why people keep saying that our chances for top 4 were done after the Swansea tie. If we would have won today we would have been in great shape for the top 4 race. There is no reason why this team couldn't have been set out in a way tactically to really get after Arsenal, cause them problems, and go for the win. It's just surprising that we have essentially thrown away a viable route to the champions league just because we have another viable route there. I thought about it a lot today and the more I thought about it the more it got me upset & confused. I really don't understand Jose's reasoning at all to be honest. Because of all this, I think big questions have to be asked about his job if we fail to win the Europa.

 

[Berbasbullet]

I don't know why people keep saying that our chances for top 4 were done after the Swansea tie. If we would have won today we would have been in great shape for the top 4 race. There is no reason why this team couldn't have been set out in a way tactically to really get after Arsenal, cause them problems, and go for the win. It's just surprising that we have essentially thrown away a viable route to the champions league just because we have another viable route there. I thought about it a lot today and the more I thought about it the more it got me upset & confused. I really don't understand Jose's reasoning at all to be honest. Because of all this, I think big questions have to be asked about his job if we fail to win the Europa.

You make it sound like United wanted to lose. From what I understand the tactic was hitting them on the break which has always been Arsenals weakness.

 

[Cantona_Forever]

Let me guess...it's the players, it's their fault?

Let me guess.. you came here with only one intention in mind.

 

[sglowrider]

I don't know why people keep saying that our chances for top 4 were done after the Swansea tie. If we would have won today we would have been in great shape for the top 4 race. There is no reason why this team couldn't have been set out in a way tactically to really get after Arsenal, cause them problems, and go for the win. It's just surprising that we have essentially thrown away a viable route to the champions league just because we have another viable route there. I thought about it a lot today and the more I thought about it the more it got me upset & confused. I really don't understand Jose's reasoning at all to be honest. Because of all this, I think big questions have to be asked about his job if we fail to win the Europa.

Its about managing our overstretched resources.
A few weeks ago, I would have agreed with you but with the injuries that we have -- Shaw, Ibra and Rojo out for the season and with the two stooges (Smalling and Jones) barely match sharp, we have to pick our poison. Otherwise, we have reduced our chances of getting into CL dramatically.

 

[wc18]

You make it sound like United wanted to lose. From what I understand the tactic was hitting them on the break which has always been Arsenals weakness.

Well the way we played today it sure didn't seem like we wanted to win. Our style was so predictable. For some reason we had Mata and Mkhitaryan marking their wing backs gibbs and chamberlain even though our full backs never attacked at all. Our record against the top 6 is just comical and we haven't even scored away against a top 4 team. Might want to rethink our approach

 

[buckooo1978]

Well the way we played today it sure didn't seem like we wanted to win. Our style was so predictable. For some reason we had Mata and Mkhitaryan marking their wing backs gibbs and chamberlain even though our full backs never attacked at all. Our record against the top 6 is just comical and we haven't even scored away against a top 4 team. Might want to rethink our approach

We went into most big games, away from home especially, with this attitude and mentality if not with the same formation

Maybe Mourinho doesnt trust the current side but Arsenal are poor.... he needed to be able to balance defence and attack - a lack of pace in the side with Rooney and Mata advanced I suppose

 

[MuranoLover]

Actually , I really didn't care if we gonna win it or no - what matters is Jose made a step ahead for him and for the club as picking up young guys who might be our future .

After we won at Celta , our aim is really clear and simple - no more injuries and some break for the most important players so we can win the EL , simple as that .

Come on !

 

[Lentwood]

Well I would say that both clubs have the money and the power to do so. I wouldn't say we have the right manager, certainly. I'm also not sure if Mourinho's recent results justify unwavering praise. The new breed of manager that has come to the league - Klopp, Pochettino and Guardiola all seem to have the tools to surpass his achievements here in the longer term. Mourinho struggled to adapt to our tactics today and it's not the first time I've seen that happen this season. I thought it was a one-dimensional United performance against a relatively beatable Arsenal.

You're right, though. Both teams are capable of getting there (at Premier League level at least.. domestically, our teams have a long way to go to compete at elite European level. Part of that is down to the individual quality of players like Messi/Ronaldo and the fact that even the best players here seem to want to move there now - Bale, Fabregas, Ronaldo again, De Gea but for a fax machine).

I suspect this conversation is probably going nowhere since we don't agree on anything!

To even talk about Klopp in the same breath as Jose is ridiculous- just compare the two records. Honestly its not even a debate. Poch is great but he is basically just doing what Jose started doing in 2003. Guardiola has proved nothing yet. Lets give him another year but its been poor so far

Lest we forget, only ONE of the players selected yesterday were Jose buys. I think after this summer you will start to see a real Jose side taking shape

 

[legball]

It's really pathetic what Jose has done to our fans, the propaganda is unreal, when did it become acceptable to throw away games to our rivals? This club is about high expectations & winning, and Jose's approach yesterday was pathetic, disgraceful and downright disrespectful to the fans, especially those who traveled to watch the team. Before the start, we were 5 points behind 3rd placed Liverpool, with 2 games in hand, so, I'm not having that nonsense that the Europa league was the only way to get CL football, we blast players here for not showing fight and lacking the right attitude, well, tell you what, Jose's attitude to the game yesterday was stinky.

Rooney's chance was a mistake by Arsenal, Martial's chance was the only thing we created, after that, our game plan was to sit back and defend, and whenever we manage to get the ball, hoof it to Martial (who is no Zlatan) then blame Martial of course because he didn't dribble every one and score, despite the fact that we were not interested in creating anything, Mhkitaryan spent most of his time at left back, De Gea continuously went long to nobody in particular, the XI yesterday was good enough to give Arsenal a good game, it was Arsenal, not Real Madrid. The bigger picture is that we have scored 0 goals against top six teams away, and we've set up in ultra defensive style in every one of those games, if that is acceptable to you then fine, as far as I am concerned, it's pathetic.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Didn't get to watch the game and won't go back to revisit it. Sounds like we were poor all over and a lot of guys got legs under their belt coming back from injuries.
Just how it goes, a shame. But we roll on to next game and continue on.

 

[legball]

I suspect this conversation is probably going nowhere since we don't agree on anything!

To even talk about Klopp in the same breath as Jose is ridiculous- just compare the two records. Honestly its not even a debate. Poch is great but he is basically just doing what Jose started doing in 2003. Guardiola has proved nothing yet. Lets give him another year but its been poor so far

Lest we forget, only ONE of the players selected yesterday were Jose buys. I think after this summer you will start to see a real Jose side taking shape

What manager goes to a club and buys 10 players before he does anything? If that was what it takes then we could all be managers. How many of those Spurs players were signed by MP? How many of those Chelsea players were signed by Conte? In fact, in 90% of clubs in Europe, you go in and coach players that have been bought for you. It's how Jose worked in every club he has managed, now we're making these excuses for him. Funny. And what's a real Jose side?

 

[Lentwood]

What manager goes to a club and buys 10 players before he does anything? If that was what it takes then we could all be managers. How many of those Spurs players were signed by MP? How many of those Chelsea players were signed by Conte? In fact, in 90% of clubs in Europe, you go in and coach players that have been bought for you. It's how Jose worked in every club he has managed, now we're making these excuses for him. Funny. And what's a real Jose side?

Yes but the difference here is every man and his dog can see we need a clearout. The squad we have is more or less exactly where it should be

For the record - a real Jose side is solid back 4, two beasts in the engine room, a dynamic #10, pace on the wingers and pace/power at #9 set up to control the game against weaker opponents and counter against better opponents

 

[wolvored]

HAve never been bothered less by a loss to arsenal.
We were by and large poor but they weren't any better. Fine margins as well as we could easily have been gifted a goal in the first half.
If they want to shout out from the rooftops then fair play but we are both finishing 5th and 6th and we will be the ones in the cl next year......
Oh ps. Please stay arsene!!

This isnt nailed on yet. We should have gone for it yesterday

 

[wolvored]

It's really pathetic what Jose has done to our fans, the propaganda is unreal, when did it become acceptable to throw away games to our rivals? This club is about high expectations & winning, and Jose's approach yesterday was pathetic, disgraceful and downright disrespectful to the fans, especially those who traveled to watch the team. Before the start, we were 5 points behind 3rd placed Liverpool, with 2 games in hand, so, I'm not having that nonsense that the Europa league was the only way to get CL football, we blast players here for not showing fight and lacking the right attitude, well, tell you what, Jose's attitude to the game yesterday was stinky.

Rooney's chance was a mistake by Arsenal, Martial's chance was the only thing we created, after that, our game plan was to sit back and defend, and whenever we manage to get the ball, hoof it to Martial (who is no Zlatan) then blame Martial of course because he didn't dribble every one and score, despite the fact that we were not interested in creating anything, Mhkitaryan spent most of his time at left back, De Gea continuously went long to nobody in particular, the XI yesterday was good enough to give Arsenal a good game, it was Arsenal, not Real Madrid. The bigger picture is that we have scored 0 goals against top six teams away, and we've set up in ultra defensive style in every one of those games, if that is acceptable to you then fine, as far as I am concerned, it's pathetic.

Agree 100%. Winning the EL is no guarantee like so many think it is

 

[Berbasbullet]

But there are also no guarantees that if we played the bigger players we would have beaten Arsenal, let alone Spurs, Southampton and Palace. No one has said he EL is a guarantee, but it's a much easier route.

We had plenty of quality out there yesterday, more than enough to give Arsenal a game, unfortunately it wasn't enough on the day.

 

[legball]

Yes but the difference here is every man and his dog can see we need a clearout. The squad we have is more or less exactly where it should be

For the record - a real Jose side is solid back 4, two beasts in the engine room, a dynamic #10, pace on the wingers and pace/power at #9 set up to control the game against weaker opponents and counter against better opponents

We've been needing a clear-out for 4 years now, it's the excuse season after season. So, what stopped Mourinho from getting another CB & a DM, and clearing out certain players? The squad is not where it should be at all, I disagree, it's still a very good squad that should beat the likes of Hull, Burnley, Bournemouth & Swansea at home. We added 4 players, 3 of genuine quality and an up and coming CB, and we're still in the same position as LVG was last season. We have under performed, as a team, Jose and the players. Simple.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It's really pathetic what Jose has done to our fans, the propaganda is unreal, when did it become acceptable to throw away games to our rivals? This club is about high expectations & winning, and Jose's approach yesterday was pathetic, disgraceful and downright disrespectful to the fans, especially those who traveled to watch the team. Before the start, we were 5 points behind 3rd placed Liverpool, with 2 games in hand, so, I'm not having that nonsense that the Europa league was the only way to get CL football, we blast players here for not showing fight and lacking the right attitude, well, tell you what, Jose's attitude to the game yesterday was stinky.

Rooney's chance was a mistake by Arsenal, Martial's chance was the only thing we created, after that, our game plan was to sit back and defend, and whenever we manage to get the ball, hoof it to Martial (who is no Zlatan) then blame Martial of course because he didn't dribble every one and score, despite the fact that we were not interested in creating anything, Mhkitaryan spent most of his time at left back, De Gea continuously went long to nobody in particular, the XI yesterday was good enough to give Arsenal a good game, it was Arsenal, not Real Madrid. The bigger picture is that we have scored 0 goals against top six teams away, and we've set up in ultra defensive style in every one of those games, if that is acceptable to you then fine, as far as I am concerned, it's pathetic.

What Jose has done is given the United fans the expectation of winning trophies, that is all that matters, not 4th place. He is a winner. He wants that EL, the only trophy we haven't won and lo and behold CL with no qualifying round, unlike 4th place. The players will then get their proper summer rest and at least this year a proper pre-season. They are exhausted thanks to the abomination that LvG arranged for us last summer. God, our fans are spoilt.

 

[Lentwood]

We've been needing a clear-out for 4 years now, it's the excuse season after season. So, what stopped Mourinho from getting another CB & a DM, and clearing out certain players? The squad is not where it should be at all, I disagree, it's still a very good squad that should beat the likes of Hull, Burnley, Bournemouth & Swansea at home. We added 4 players, 3 of genuine quality and an up and coming CB, and we're still in the same position as LVG was last season. We have under performed, as a team, Jose and the players. Simple.

You have answered your own question! "Why didn't Jose buy a CB (Bailly?) and a DM?" and then in the previous post "no manager comes in and signs 10 players"

The first season for any manager anywhere should be a freebie, the second should be where the team starts taking shape - but you would still expect there to be a few teething problems as new players bed in. Only in the 3rd, 4th amd 5th onwards can you really start to crtitique a manager

What people have to realise is that it takes years and years for a manager to have a real impact. In general, not just in football, we attribute to much to the actions of individuals and discount all kinds of other factors which are far more important.

For example, because I know somebody will post "what about Conte". Prime example. Conte hasn't won the league this year because he is some genius manager. He may well be - but the real reasons are a decade of heavy spending, great managers who have gone before him (including Jose), a squad of title winners and a favourable fixture list.

 

[legball]

What Jose has done is given the United fans the expectation of winning trophies, that is all that matters, not 4th place. He is a winner. He wants that EL, the only trophy we haven't won and lo and behold CL with no qualifying round, unlike 4th place. The players will then get their proper summer rest and at least this year a proper pre-season. They are exhausted thanks to the abomination that LvG arranged for us last summer. God, our fans are spoilt.

This is garbage mate, if you think our fans are spoilt then try Real Madrid or Barcelona, it's called standards, we've been dropping ours since Ferguson left. Back to the point, my argument is that the performance yesterday was pathetic and it was, the XI was fairly strong, but we've gone there and sat back against a team that isn't that good, we've scored 0 goals against top six teams away from home. On one hand you're saying he is a winner and has made the fans have expectations of winning trophies, on the other hand you're saying fans are spoilt because they expect the team to win games and be higher than 5th place. Amazing.

 

[legball]

You have answered your own question! "Why didn't Jose buy a CB (Bailly?) and a DM?" and then in the previous post "no manager comes in and signs 10 players"

The first season for any manager anywhere should be a freebie, the second should be where the team starts taking shape - but you would still expect there to be a few teething problems as new players bed in. Only in the 3rd, 4th amd 5th onwards can you really start to crtitique a manager

What people have to realise is that it takes years and years for a manager to have a real impact. In general, not just in football, we attribute to much to the actions of individuals and discount all kinds of other factors which are far more important.

For example, because I know somebody will post "what about Conte". Prime example. Conte hasn't won the league this year because he is some genius manager. He may well be - but the real reasons are a decade of heavy spending, great managers who have gone before him (including Jose), a squad of title winners and a favourable fixture list.

Haha, I didn't answer my own question, I said if he was managing other clubs, he'll work with the players the club signed, but we do give managers the free reign to bring in players they want, so, he could easily have signed 2 more players, not my fault that he didn't. And let me point out one thing, I am not saying he should have come in, and won everything, I'm not naive. I am saying that as it is, we have under performed in the PL. I hope this time next season, we won't be making these excuses.

 

[2 man midfield]

It's easy to say that we should have gone for it, but hindsight is 20/20.

Say Liverpool won, then we picked our strongest team full of tired players, Pogba and Herrera pick up injuries and we still end up losing. We'd be in a much, much worse position than we are this morning. We know we aren't getting top 4, I wouldn't back us to beat Southampton at home never mind Spurs away. This made by far the most sense, and anyone accusing Jose of throwing the game needs to have a word.

 

[Sultan]

Prior to the game, Mourinho dampened any significance of the match. Players were flat, Mourinho and his staff looked relaxed. It was the least important game in the scheme of our season and players performed accordingly.

Europa final and the Muppet season.