FA W FA Cup 3rd Round

Manchester United 1:0 Aston Villa

Post-match discussion


Mon, 10 January 2022

Fitchett

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I thought we were disappointing and were a bit lucky to win. What surprised me most was the time added on only being 6 mins, the usual is at least 3 mins. The VAR on the first took about 3 min 20 secs, then there was the player who was bleeding. I watched the match in a club and the feeling was a minimum of 8 mins, chuffed that we won though.
All the people around me inside the ground were expecting eight minutes. A rare Oliver error in our favour!
 

redmanx

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For me this is a central question how can professional players make so many unforced errors?
Some of the balls given away (rather than lost in tackles) were excellent passes, but direct to the opposition!

What is it? Fear (i.e. just get rid!), or maybe loss of confidence/concentration, or more 'decision making' crap, or is it more insidious than that.

Greenwood three times in the second half cut in from the right and at ranges between 30 to 40 yards, well outside the 18 yard box and tried to beat the Villa keeper, ending up shooting right at him. On a least two of these occasions, and well within his sight line, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani and even VDB were in prime scoring positions, but he still tried to score from that distance.

This is not the first time, or the second time, or even the third time Greenwood has done this, since he got back in the team, but its no longer about a young lad needing to gain experience, or to address his poor decision making, the lad is deliberately ignoring his better placed colleagues, that is what worries me.
I suspect one reason Rashford did not try to get to the rebound from the final one, was his disgust at Mason's actions.

Only at the death did Mason use his position to bemuse the defence to then try to slip Lingard in... but it was much too little, too late!

If talented youngsters like Greenwood can't, or won't, learn from playing alongside such as CR and Cavani, then Ralf has really got a mountain to climb.
Rashford too was guilty of being selfish, not passing when others were in better positions. Neither he or Greenwood are untried kids and both should know better.
 

Maticmaker

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Rashford and Ronaldo do not make selfless runs, they don't pass much to each other (Bruno does but still takes poor shots at times) and they all seem to be glory hunting.
Actually in his first few games, Ronald did make some selfless runs especially the game against West ham (Caraboa cup) CR made two fantastic runs for Greenwood in and around the 18 yard box, the first one Mason fluffed and the second one all he had to do was push it back to CR, he didn't. The look on Ronaldo's face said it all

Rashford too was guilty of being selfish, not passing when others were in better positions. Neither he or Greenwood are untried kids and both should know better.
Rashford is 'away with the fairies' just now his whole body language is terrible. What is worrying is he seems to be following the Tony Martial route of becoming more sulky, more distance from his team mates, definitely not enjoying his football just now... Rashford replaced Martial as the most exciting front player, now maybe its his turn???
 

mitchmouse

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Agree that watching this team is painful. We are really, really bad. I think the team hates each other too. Rashford sulking around the pitch, Greenwood never passing. They clearly hate the manager.

It’s funny because I used to love watching this team. Our Bruno-inspired run of games in 19-20 to 3rd and then last season until tailing off for 2nd.

I disagree that Ralf cannot be blamed. He can, and should be. He’s being paid a lot of money to revitalize the team and refresh the tactics. We can’t sell the entire squad. If Ole was the problem, how is Ralf not the problem? If the players are the problem, you still have to find a manager to light a fire under the players because you can’t turnover the entire squad in the January window.

‘It’s more likely that it’s both: the players are a problem AND Ralf is unsuitable as a manager, even interim. Intellectually, we need to be able to accept multiple reasons for our poor performances.
You can't expect the man to come in and performa a miracle in a matter of days... Ole had years and we went backwards in the end. He may or may not be the right man but i think there is a deeper sickness at the heart of the club
 

lex talionis

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Nobody expected miracles, but we did expect more improvement in our play than what we’ve seen so far. Defending has improved significantly, although to be fair the improvement came off an insanely low floor that was probably more anomalous than what we would gave seen the rest of the season, but our attacking play actually seems to have regressed.

We were lucky to escape the battering Villa gave us with a win.
 

Moriarty

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You can't expect the man to come in and performa a miracle in a matter of days... Ole had years and we went backwards in the end. He may or may not be the right man but i think there is a deeper sickness at the heart of the club
What can he really do in the short space of time allotted to him as manager? He can prepare the ground for the new manager, and run the rule over the squad with a view to making suggestions as to who should stay and who should go - assuming that the club knows who will be taking over for 2022/23. If we win a pot, it will be gravy, as will 4th place. As to the sickness you refer to, he can do nothing about the owners. He has nothing to do with the commercial side to which the football side is subservient.
 

calodo2003

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DSG

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I watched the full replays. No need to reply if you didn't read a post carefully enough.
If you watched the full 90 and that’s your take, it’s even worse than if you had just watched highlights. We were awful against a pretty weak side.
 

DSG

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You can't expect the man to come in and performa a miracle in a matter of days... Ole had years and we went backwards in the end. He may or may not be the right man but i think there is a deeper sickness at the heart of the club
With this level of talent, I actually expect him to do much better, and sooner. We were 2nd last season and made a Europe final. We strengthened with the greatest goal scorer ever, a top top CB and one of the best 21 yr olds on the planet.

my assessment, after over a month in charge, is that the job is too big for him. I hope he proves me wrong, but anything less than 4th in the league would be a massive disappointment.
 

Nordmore

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If you watched the full 90 and that’s your take, it’s even worse than if you had just watched highlights. We were awful against a pretty weak side.
We're still bad but miles better than the dross against Norwich, Newcastle, Wolves. If not for DDG we could have lost all those matches. Last match his only good save was against McGin's longshot. In those three matches we didn't look like we could score at all. Last match we should have scored three goals in the first half alone. If you couldn't see that football is simply not the game for you.

Anyway we should agree to disagree then.
 

NewGlory

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You can't expect the man to come in and performa a miracle in a matter of days... Ole had years and we went backwards in the end. He may or may not be the right man but i think there is a deeper sickness at the heart of the club
Tuchel won Champions League right away. So it's not that it is impossible, you just dont want to have same high expectations as they have at Chelsea. So that explains why they win regularly and we just keep giving time to a series of failed managers
 

mitchmouse

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Tuchel won Champions League right away. So it's not that it is impossible, you just dont want to have same high expectations as they have at Chelsea. So that explains why they win regularly and we just keep giving time to a series of failed managers
also - and some may disagree - I think Chelsea's squad is/was stronger than ours and the club didn't let the rot set in so deeply before getting rid of Lampard
 

mitchmouse

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With this level of talent, I actually expect him to do much better, and sooner. We were 2nd last season and made a Europe final. We strengthened with the greatest goal scorer ever, a top top CB and one of the best 21 yr olds on the planet.

my assessment, after over a month in charge, is that the job is too big for him. I hope he proves me wrong, but anything less than 4th in the league would be a massive disappointment.
we strengthened under Ole.. and he'd been there longer but we went backwards
 

mitchmouse

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What can he really do in the short space of time allotted to him as manager? He can prepare the ground for the new manager, and run the rule over the squad with a view to making suggestions as to who should stay and who should go - assuming that the club knows who will be taking over for 2022/23. If we win a pot, it will be gravy, as will 4th place. As to the sickness you refer to, he can do nothing about the owners. He has nothing to do with the commercial side to which the football side is subservient.
I agree he can do no more than that...
 

Nordmore

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Tuchel won Champions League right away. So it's not that it is impossible, you just dont want to have same high expectations as they have at Chelsea. So that explains why they win regularly and we just keep giving time to a series of failed managers
Your take is too simple imo. No doubt it's an incredible achievement but also lot of luck if you look at their opponents in their road to the final and how Pep fecked himself up in the final. Plus Chelsea has been pretty well run for a long time with a very different owner than us. Their problem was a bad manager. Our problems are simply much more than that.
 

DSG

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we strengthened under Ole.. and he'd been there longer but we went backwards
Going backwards (recently) under Ole has nothing to do with Rangnick’s performance. I’ve said it before: it was time for Ole to go. Period. Doesn’t make the requirements for Ralf’s success any different.
 

DSG

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What can he really do in the short space of time allotted to him as manager? He can prepare the ground for the new manager, and run the rule over the squad with a view to making suggestions as to who should stay and who should go - assuming that the club knows who will be taking over for 2022/23. If we win a pot, it will be gravy, as will 4th place. As to the sickness you refer to, he can do nothing about the owners. He has nothing to do with the commercial side to which the football side is subservient.
This is a pretty naive take.

The goal of any business owner is to make money. In football, it’s to make money AND win trophies. As CEO, hiring in a fella and saying, “feck the £80m from the CL, just guide us til the end of the season and set up your consulting group. We don’t care if we lose money this season.” For a publicly listed company with common shareholders, it would be disastrous managerial move. Make no mistake, the goal is top 4 and a new system/philosophy and organizational restructuring, along with a new long term manager.

Sorry, there is no logical analysis where top 4 isn’t the priority. To believe otherwise is just naive.
 

DSG

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Your take is too simple imo. No doubt it's an incredible achievement but also lot of luck if you look at their opponents in their road to the final and how Pep fecked himself up in the final. Plus Chelsea has been pretty well run for a long time with a very different owner than us. Their problem was a bad manager. Our problems are simply much more than that.
Why don’t we want high expectations? Aren’t we Manchester United? With this squad, we should be firmly in the conversation for top 3, and our manager, coaching staff, players and the board should have the same expectations. What Tuchel achieved was amazing, and no, I don’t expect a CL title this year. But the minimum expectation is to be firmly top 4.
 

The United

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This is a pretty naive take.

The goal of any business owner is to make money. In football, it’s to make money AND win trophies. As CEO, hiring in a fella and saying, “feck the £80m from the CL, just guide us til the end of the season and set up your consulting group. We don’t care if we lose money this season.” For a publicly listed company with common shareholders, it would be disastrous managerial move. Make no mistake, the goal is top 4 and a new system/philosophy and organizational restructuring, along with a new long term manager.

Sorry, there is no logical analysis where top 4 isn’t the priority. To believe otherwise is just naive.
Those bunch are strange as feck that they think that we will let a dude to break down the whole club for 'the long term good' or some shit. Let alone debating if he is even good enough for that.

They will be shocked though if not already.
 

Nordmore

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Why don’t we want high expectations? Aren’t we Manchester United? With this squad, we should be firmly in the conversation for top 3, and our manager, coaching staff, players and the board should have the same expectations. What Tuchel achieved was amazing, and no, I don’t expect a CL title this year. But the minimum expectation is to be firmly top 4.
Expectation vs Reality.

I'm a realist that's all.
 

NewGlory

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Your take is too simple imo. No doubt it's an incredible achievement but also lot of luck if you look at their opponents in their road to the final and how Pep fecked himself up in the final. Plus Chelsea has been pretty well run for a long time with a very different owner than us. Their problem was a bad manager. Our problems are simply much more than that.
Agree And that actually is my point. It's not that fortunes of a club cannot be turned around quickly, it's that we are way too fecked.

That said, we have a huge squad, with too many capable players to be losing to Wolves at home, so I am in no mood to be excusing such feck ups with "manager needs time"
 

Moriarty

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This is a pretty naive take.

The goal of any business owner is to make money. In football, it’s to make money AND win trophies. As CEO, hiring in a fella and saying, “feck the £80m from the CL, just guide us til the end of the season and set up your consulting group. We don’t care if we lose money this season.” For a publicly listed company with common shareholders, it would be disastrous managerial move. Make no mistake, the goal is top 4 and a new system/philosophy and organizational restructuring, along with a new long term manager.

Sorry, there is no logical analysis where top 4 isn’t the priority. To believe otherwise is just naive.
I worded my post badly. I meant that for fans, if we win a pot this season or get 4th, it will be gravy. I agree with the rest of your post insofar as that is what should be the minimum goal, but making disastrous managerial moves has been the hallmark of the Glazer ownership since 2013. I have no faith that there will be a change.
 

James Peril

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Fair result. Player for player, this United team is not really better than the Villa-team they played against. Individual brilliance was better until Coutinho arrived, then he equalized it all and the teams drew. Depressing of course, but harsh truth.
 

DSG

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I worded my post badly. I meant that for fans, if we win a pot this season or get 4th, it will be gravy. I agree with the rest of your post insofar as that is what should be the minimum goal, but making disastrous managerial moves has been the hallmark of the Glazer ownership since 2013. I have no faith that there will be a change.
Got it and agreed.

Sad times….
 

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Score Predictions

121,67,24
  • Man Utd win
  • Aston Villa win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 23% Man Utd 2:1 Aston Villa
  • 12% Man Utd 1:2 Aston Villa
  • 12% Man Utd 0:2 Aston Villa
  • 11% Man Utd 2:0 Aston Villa
  • 9% Man Utd 1:0 Aston Villa
  • 8% Man Utd 1:1 Aston Villa
  • 6% Man Utd 3:1 Aston Villa
  • 4% Man Utd 0:1 Aston Villa
  • 2% Man Utd 3:0 Aston Villa
  • 2% Man Utd 0:0 Aston Villa
  • 2% Man Utd 3:2 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 1:3 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 5:0 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 5:1 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 0:5 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 4:1 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 2:2 Aston Villa
  • 0% Man Utd 0:4 Aston Villa
  • 0% Man Utd 4:0 Aston Villa
  • 0% Man Utd 4:2 Aston Villa
  • 0% Man Utd 2:3 Aston Villa
Compiled from 212 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Aston Villa
Possession
43% 57%
Shots
7 4
Shots on Target
5 2
Corners
6 6
Fouls
8 1