SATA
Full Member
Can’t believe Vlaar is still playing. I swear i saw him played for Villa twenty years ago. He must be about 43 now and yet we can’t muster a shot on target at his defence, let alone score
Why didn't City sign Fred? Was it that they wouldn't pay the price? That should have set the alarms bells going for a start.Who knows, but you could see straight away that Matic was slow as a tanker andd has gotten even slower and Fred didn't fit anything even if City wanted him. He didn't hit a pass yesterday and lost the ball all the time. Shit how bad this midfield is.
7.Shame there are no stats etc available for just how many touches we had in their penalty area. I have a feeling the number would be woefully small
This is a new generation of AZ talents, so if they make the right choices they have a good chance to get a good carreer. Frenkie De Jong and De Ligt aren't Ajax players anymore, so I didnt take them into account. When you look at the talents who play at Ajax and AZ only Vd Beek is ahead of them, but then don't forget the long injuries of Stengs (more then 1 year) and Boadu (allmost 2 years). Vd Beek played 149 matches for the first team, Stengs played 48 matches for the first team, Boadu played 27 matches for the first team. And also their age: Vd Beek 21 years old, Stengs 20 years old and Boadu 18 years old.
Manchester United played really bad yesterday. Offcourse it wasnt the first squad, the pitch was bad and United underestimated AZ. I am really looking forward to see the 2 teams playing again at Old Trafford. I guess United will play with a better team there and secure the win. For the AZ players this is a great experience. They will improve every game.
I wish you guys good luck in the league. Hope you improve fast. It hurts to see United like this.
Vlaar is past his prime but still a decent defender. He didn't need speed and flexibility against the poor United strikers, only good positioning and he's one of the best positioning himself.Can’t believe Vlaar is still playing. I swear i saw him played for Villa twenty years ago. He must be about 43 now and yet we can’t muster a shot on target at his defence, let alone score
This. He's becoming/become a complete yes man for the Glazers. His bullish attitude at the outset has madeway for a furrowed brow and a meek stance.How quickly Ole has changed from "Manchester United should be winning every game, this is a club that should always be at the highest level" to .."Great result getting a draw against the mighty AZ Alkmaar"
I think they just wanted the price to rise so we would get stuck with him. Then laugh at us.Why didn't City sign Fred? Was it that they wouldn't pay the price? That should have set the alarms bells going for a start.
Very likely. I wish I was laughing.I think they just wanted the price to rise so we would get stuck with him. Then laugh at us.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but there is a lot of short term memory loss going on around these forums. We were 6th last year and lucky to be 6th quite frankly. In the summer the message from the board and the manager was that we were going to commit to a rebuild and that would start with tearing this thing down so we could get the foundations right. It was crystal clear that in the short term we were going to take a step back in an attempt to get the club back on track and yet now everyone is freaking out that results are poor less than a quarter of the way into the season. The squad was never going to challenge this year and when you add in injuries to critical players like Martial and points dropped to dumb luck like missed penalties being 10th is not the sky falling scenarios some are making it out to be. Just for perspective if the penalties at Wolves and Palace are scored we would be 4th right now and there would be a very different narrative around the club.I definitely see where you're coming from, but two months ago you were being tipped to finish above Chelsea by the majority of pundits and by your own fans, especially after that 4-0 win on the first day. Just seven weeks have gone by since that game and we're already at the point where United fans are arguing they didn't stand a chance against Chelsea after all because they have a much better first team squad and more experienced youngsters? That doesn't fly, sorry. You spent £160m this summer while Chelsea lost their talisman and signed one player who has rarely featured. I said at the time that spending half your summer budget on Harry Maguire was too risky when you had serious deficiencies in other areas of the squad, and look where we are before the second international break.
This is exactly what happened during the 17-18 season but now you're much further down the table. United fans spent that entire summer arguing that they could challenge City for the title, only to find themselves 11 points behind at Christmas and arguing that they could never match up to City because of Pep's spending. So I'll say now what I said then: in May 2016 United and City both finished on 66 points. City kicked on, United didn't. That's not our fault. And during pre-season this year United and Chelsea were expected to battle each other for 4th spot. Now we're looking at United sat in tenth and struggling in the Europa League while Chelsea look defensively naive but still capable of getting European football for next season, and all while balancing Champions League fixtures. They've kicked on, you haven't. That's not their fault.
Sooner or later the board are going to have to take a look at themselves and realise they're better off out of football. Being an elite side in the 21st century takes serious long-term planning and a focus on keeping things fresh. There is no long-term planning at United right now, and as far keeping things fresh go, six members of your squad of 25 are still hanging around like a bad smell from the days of Moyes. We won the league that season but only three players from that squad (Aguero, Fernandinho, D. Silva) are still attached as I type this, and one of them has confirmed he's leaving at the end of the season. In the post-Fergie era you've constantly placated the small crowd of mediocre players you have, and now they rule the roost.
It was similar story with José as well. In the first interview he said he didn’t care about top 4, only winning. He said ”win” about 10 times. It ended with him saying getting second place with this shower of shite was his greatest achivement ever. Even better than winning CL with Porto. Same with LvG. Didn’t take too long before he said that the fans needed to lower their expectations.How quickly Ole has changed from "Manchester United should be winning every game, this is a club that should always be at the highest level" to .."Great result getting a draw against the mighty AZ Alkmaar"
Well done. I do think that a top midfielder and a CF in January will change things around as long as they are the right ones. Then next summer add the other 3/4 players needed to challenge for honours.I agree with a lot of what you are saying but there is a lot of short term memory loss going on around these forums. We were 6th last year and lucky to be 6th quite frankly. In the summer the message from the board and the manager was that we were going to commit to a rebuild and that would start with tearing this thing down so we could get the foundations right. It was crystal clear that in the short term we were going to take a step back in an attempt to get the club back on track and yet now everyone is freaking out that results are poor less than a quarter of the way into the season. The squad was never going to challenge this year and when you add in injuries to critical players like Martial and points dropped to dumb luck like missed penalties being 10th is not the sky falling scenarios some are making it out to be. Just for perspective if the penalties at Wolves and Palace are scored we would be 4th right now and there would be a very different narrative around the club.
Do have to argue with the 160 million figure. 80 + 45 + 15 is actually 140 million and then you also have to factor in the 80 million plus raised in player sales so the net spend is significantly lower than many of our rivals.
My biggest issue is that everybody knew this season would be tough, we all wanted the deadwood gone and we wanted to start blooding our youngsters to see what we have. Only the most naïve fan could have expected that this strategy wouldn't come with some poor performances and some bad results and yet we don't appear to have the stomach for it. More and more posters here wanting to change course again, go back to a big name hire and try and buy our way out of trouble, ignoring the fact that we did this with our previous 2 hires and it failed miserably.
We have to let this season play out, people talking about relegation form and doomsday scenarios are just being hysterical. Of our rivals for the top 6 spots we already have wins over Chelsea and Leicester along with a draw against Arsenal, not exactly a disaster, and we are yet to play any of the newly promoted sides so I hardly think panic is warranted. Worst case scenario is we do end up mid table and with no European football next year but we will have cleared out some of the overpaid garbage, made some good new signings and we will know if our youngsters are going to be good enough at this level. Regardless we will be in a position come May to make an informed decision about the way forward and if it ends up not being with Ole then we can handle that separation with a little bit of class and having given him a fair shot to demonstrate his vision.
wow... even worse than I thought. That is disgraceful7.
AZ had 28.
Apologies about getting the transfer fees wrong. I fell for the old press trick of saying the "deal is worth" an inflated amount after factoring in wages and add-ons, as opposed to the fee you actually paid!I agree with a lot of what you are saying but there is a lot of short term memory loss going on around these forums. We were 6th last year and lucky to be 6th quite frankly. In the summer the message from the board and the manager was that we were going to commit to a rebuild and that would start with tearing this thing down so we could get the foundations right. It was crystal clear that in the short term we were going to take a step back in an attempt to get the club back on track and yet now everyone is freaking out that results are poor less than a quarter of the way into the season. The squad was never going to challenge this year and when you add in injuries to critical players like Martial and points dropped to dumb luck like missed penalties being 10th is not the sky falling scenarios some are making it out to be. Just for perspective if the penalties at Wolves and Palace are scored we would be 4th right now and there would be a very different narrative around the club.
Do have to argue with the 160 million figure. 80 + 45 + 15 is actually 140 million and then you also have to factor in the 80 million plus raised in player sales so the net spend is significantly lower than many of our rivals.
My biggest issue is that everybody knew this season would be tough, we all wanted the deadwood gone and we wanted to start blooding our youngsters to see what we have. Only the most naïve fan could have expected that this strategy wouldn't come with some poor performances and some bad results and yet we don't appear to have the stomach for it. More and more posters here wanting to change course again, go back to a big name hire and try and buy our way out of trouble, ignoring the fact that we did this with our previous 2 hires and it failed miserably.
We have to let this season play out, people talking about relegation form and doomsday scenarios are just being hysterical. Of our rivals for the top 6 spots we already have wins over Chelsea and Leicester along with a draw against Arsenal, not exactly a disaster, and we are yet to play any of the newly promoted sides so I hardly think panic is warranted. Worst case scenario is we do end up mid table and with no European football next year but we will have cleared out some of the overpaid garbage, made some good new signings and we will know if our youngsters are going to be good enough at this level. Regardless we will be in a position come May to make an informed decision about the way forward and if it ends up not being with Ole then we can handle that separation with a little bit of class and having given him a fair shot to demonstrate his vision.
You are right mate , United won`t win a title as long as Glazers/Woodward is at the wheel .Apologies about getting the transfer fees wrong. I fell for the old press trick of saying the "deal is worth" an inflated amount after factoring in wages and add-ons, as opposed to the fee you actually paid!
To the point at hand - I think your expectations for the season (and United's near future) are much more reasonable than that of the media, who still seem to have this element of surprise or outrage in their voices when they talk about United as an underachieving superpower, when in reality you're miles away from it being fair to hold you to the standards expected of City and Liverpool. Your ceiling right now, realistically, is somewhere between 5th-7th. I think the problem, though, is that this particular nadir has been reached not as a result of the larger cycles of success in football, but by gross incompetence. I think the average United fan would have accepted dropping standards in the post-Ferguson era, but for them to drop as far as they have, and for that drop to be overseen by a man who has repeatedly made the wrong decisions, is understandably unacceptable. Your ceiling isn't 5th-7th because success doesn't last forever, it's because of the Glazers' and Woodward's deficiencies.
Just to expand, I think fans would have been happy for a while with the return you got between 2015 and 2018. Finishing between 2nd-5th in the league and winning a cup every other season, just while the club steadied itself after such a big loss. Instead, what's happened, is Woodward has managed to totally screw things into the floor ever since you finished 2nd with 81 points. Looking back from the vantage point of October 2019, what Van Gaal left behind was a decent side that could have really gone places. Then Mourinho came in, and for a time he got you playing better football and won a couple of major trophies before finishing as the best of the chasing pack during our Centurions procession. Ever since then, though, things have been utterly miserable and completely toxic. The damage done by the combination of Mourinho's half-season, Ole's appointment, and the reckless firesale this summer will take maybe three full seasons to repair. This is what Mourinho does everywhere he goes, and Woodward more than enabled this.
And even when that repair work is done you'll only be back to where you were when Van Gaal won the FA Cup or when you won the Europa League, and that's if the repair work is even successful. Considering Woodward and the Glazers have only overseen a drop in standards, I'm absolutely certain that they're not the guys to steer you through this smog. I think Ole is a wonderful candidate to be your future DoF and he's staring you right in the face, but instead Woodward put him in the dugout. The longer he's there, the further you'll fall, and the harder it'll be to get back. Think about it - when was the last time you signed a player who was wanted by City, Liverpool, Barca, Madrid, etc.? Was it Pogba? This summer alone you were turned down by Eriksen, Mandzukic, Dybala, Bruno Fernandes... the list goes on. Since Ferguson left, how many players have you signed and have gone on to improve their ability/reputation?
Fellaini? No.
Mata? Possibly.
Herrera? Possibly.
Shaw? No.
Rojo? No.
Di Maria? No.
Blind? No.
Fosu-Mensah? No.
Depay? No.
Darmian? Absolutely not.
Schweinsteiger? No.
Schneiderlin? No.
Romero? Yeah, I'd say he counts. 1
Martial? Yea, I'd say he counts. 2
Bailly? No.
Ibrahimovic? Just about counts. 3
Mkhitaryan? No.
Pogba? No.
Lindelof? No.
Lukaku? No.
Matic? No.
Sanchez? Absolutely not.
Dalot? No.
Fred? Absolutely not.
Three signings in six years have improved their quality/reputation since joining United. One of them's a back-up keeper and one of them was with you for one season, the other it remains to be seen whether he can deliver on his potential. That's really, really poor. Top players won't want to roll those dice by joining you anymore. I'm not counting Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, and James yet because they've been here two seconds, but results look promising for those guys at least. Regardless, that list says to me that it doesn't matter who your manager is anymore because the chronic problems with your set-up have been there since 2013 and clearly come from higher up in the club. In fact, they were probably there before 2013 but Ferguson did a great job of covering them up. I know I'm preaching to the choir but for United to go anywhere the Glazers and Woodward both need to be shifted. The problem is that they have no intention of doing so. A DoF will help, but how long is all that going to take? Honestly, I joked to myself while Moyes was your manager that you'd be singing "20 times" for many years to come, but that's no longer a joke. Number 21 might well be a decade away.
I feel like that after watching every opponent we play against.At times, I wished we played like AZ.. they moved the ball around quick, knew how to soak up the press and come out with the ball, and did decent attacking..
From what I've seen from them this season they were actually a bit sloppy and slow compared to normally. They weren't as agressive and pushing for the win as much as I expected, seemed fairly content with a draw. But they are known to play some of the best football of all Dutch clubs at the moment.At times, I wished we played like AZ.. they moved the ball around quick, knew how to soak up the press and come out with the ball, and did decent attacking..
unfortunately there is some truth to that.. I guess we just have to stop being a spoilt glory hunters, and give the manager time till at spine point in life, he’ll bring us back to topI feel like that after watching every opponent we play against.
We are the only club that will make Newcastle look like Barcelona.
I wasn’t aware at all, I was impressed, how do rate their players compared to ours? Or at least to yesterday’s starting XI?From what I've seen from them this season they were actually a bit sloppy and slow compared to normally. They weren't as agressive and pushing for the win as much as I expected, seemed fairly content with a draw. But they are known to play some of the best football of all Dutch clubs at the moment.
I actually expected AZ to win yesterday, beforehand. Considering the team we started anyway. Purely based on the fact that AZ is a well oiled team and a very talented team, 5 of their Dutch players got called up the Netherlands under 21 team today, which is more than any of the other Dutch clubs. Some of them are really talented and considered future Dutch internationals.I wasn’t aware at all, I was impressed, how do rate their players compared to ours? Or at least to yesterday’s starting XI?
Cheers, I was impressed by them, what’s your opinion about their manager?I actually expected AZ to win yesterday, beforehand. Considering the team we started anyway. Purely based on the fact that AZ is a well oiled team and a very talented team, 5 of their Dutch players got called up the Netherlands under 21 team today, which is more than any of the other Dutch clubs. Some of them are really talented and considered future Dutch internationals.
That doesn't mean that I think our team that we fielded yesterday was worse on an individual level. Just that AZ is too good and playing too well as a team to field a mostly 2nd string team against that isn't used to playing together on a regular basis.
He's started really well, but it's his first proper manager job, started this season.Cheers, I was impressed by them, what’s your opinion about their manager?
United has better players individually. There were some moments where United outclassed AZ yesterday on an individual level. Better ballcontrol, better passing. But as a team AZ is better. What surprised me the most is that AZ had the upperhand the second part of the second half. I expected United to go for the last offense, but they seemed out of steam. AZ is a very organised team. I wouldn't say they play very offensive this season, but it overall looks good with good positionplay. They have no weak link at the moment. But only Stengs and in the future Boadu could become topplayers and play for United (bot had long injuries and are young; 18-19).unfortunately there is some truth to that.. I guess we just have to stop being a spoilt glory hunters, and give the manager time till at spine point in life, he’ll bring us back to top
I wasn’t aware at all, I was impressed, how do rate their players compared to ours? Or at least to yesterday’s starting XI?
Yes it should've. Fecking hate the state of this squad.Why didn't City sign Fred? Was it that they wouldn't pay the price? That should have set the alarms bells going for a start.
Gediminas Mazeika