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Manchester United 0:0 Chelsea

Post-match discussion


Sat, 24 October 2020

JohnnyKills

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I really don’t see any concern, we were the better team against a Chelsea side that cost a fortune, who everyone was shitting themselves over before the season began. It was a messy game, in the rain, slick pitch, and not ideal conditions. It really felt like both teams just wanted this one out of the way, and it’s hard to infer too much form it. But we should have won the game really, and we didn’t even have our starting centre forward available.

It’s bizarre how Dan James is being used as a stick to beat Ole with though. Really his selection was absolutely fine, he’s been here a year, and now we’re at the start of a new season and he’s got another chance to show his worth. It doesn’t matter how much he played last year, fresh season and fresh start. If you think Ole is going to keep playing him in important games then you’re dead wrong, if you think Ole can’t see that he’s not performing then you’re wrong on that count too. Even if for selfish reasons, Ole isn’t going to sabotage his own job to give James chances. This whole debate is so ridiculous. James is not going to be a consideration in any big game, he won’t start, he won’t come on, and probably won’t even make the bench. The “iTs bAd coAcHiNg!1” crowd are being especially moronic over this one. It’s super tiresome to see continual broad stroke conclusions about the overall state of the club after every single game.
Agreed. We've stopped the rot defensively and we know we can score goals, so that will come.
 

Tibs

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Ole needs to go.

One good win (v PSG) buys him 3/4 games, and then we're shit. This is going to cost this season.

People saying the defence did well - we are playing with 2 DMs at least, every game. If 6/7 defensive players are playing you can't then moan at the attack for not performing.

Ole isn't the man to use this squad to deliver us anything, other than perhaps, if other teams are equally all over the place, 4th place.

This squad now, should be up there challenging for every competition and the league.
 

georgipep

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We are in 15th place right now. Heck how on earth can Manchester United go and defend like that at OT against a Chelsea team and a manager like Lampard?
There are people who think that a point against chelsea is a good result. This is a terrible Chelsea side with a rookie manager. It's scandalous.
You are telling me that Chelsea are a terrible side and none of Werner, Pulisic, Havertz, Kante, Chilwell, Azpilicueta would get into our squad?

Lampard, Moyes and Arteta I agree at this moment in time. But Arteta is starting his career. Rodgers at Leicester had half a team as good as ours. So the players he had has to be taken into consideration. He is a better coach than Ole for sure.
So, Ole finished last season above all of the ones you've commented, even considering Rodgers' great start of the season and the great implosion in the end.
 

reelworld

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I think everyone was underrating Chelsea massively here. They have good players who can hurt you given the chance. But somehow everyone was expecting us to trounced them 4-0 because they leaked a few goals previously. We're not there yet
 

Maticmaker

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Had 0-0 written all over it once teams published.

Ole wanted to avoid losing our first three league games at OT, since 'Adam was a lad' . Lampard wanted a clean sheet (praying for one!) especially for his new goalkeeper to show up, which he did. Keeper stopped us with two great saves one from Mata first half, one from Rashford second, (don't count save from Rashford in first half that was 'miss' not a save!)

Only positive was I was not sat in pooring rain watching this practice match (....according to Patrice Evra)

Genuine question, what the hell does Ole see in the McTominay/Fred partnership in midfield, besides lots of effort (granted) but an almost continuous succession of passing errors, losing possession in dangerous areas (Fred especially), keep getting caught going the wrong way, or too often leaving massive gaps, both chasing same ball?

One Tuesday with a back three and two wing halves, to help out then Fred and McTominay were like 'terriers' getting in amongst PSG and deserved the plaudits, but as a two in midfield, without support....?

I could take either one on their own (just about), but when they are together as a two at times its like watching the 'keystone cops'.
 

Tom Cato

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Well no it isn't but carry on having rock bottom standards.
I was dissapointed we didn't win last night. Isn't that enough? Or should I come here and cry and call for the sacking of everyone because we didn't beat a rival? A draw against any team in the "big six" is nothing more than a "whatever".

What exactly are you proposing my standard be? Outrage over 0-0? Calling for the sacking of the manager? Being ANGRY that someone else played over my preferred favorite?

I didnt like that James played but the tactic was obviously to hit them on the break. A tactic we've had tremendous success with last year. We're 1 game away from the PSG match where everyone were impressed by the tactical disposition and here we are, 90 minutes of football later and he's clueless again. At what point are we getting off this bipolar carnival ride? The last time we played Pogba from the start we lost 6-1 against a team that's also top heavy on attack, like Chelsea are with Werner and Havertz. But heaven forbid we take a more cautious approach and not repeat our misakes.

I hope the team are able to meet your lofty standards of winning every game from hereon in, as to not dissappoint you too gravely.
 
Last edited:

Sultan

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This game was Lampard being Mourinho's apprentice. Despite such talent in the starting line-up De Gea will not need to wash his shorts this weekend. Chelsae fans need to question Lampard than him just focusing fans attention towards the penalty decision.

Disappointed to see James in the starting line-up. Surely, one of Pogba or DVB would have been better options to have started the game ahead of Mata? It was an ideal game to start Greenwood as the striker and bring on Cavani later in the game. Rashford could have occupied his usual left-wing role.

I understand it's easy for me to say this in hindsight but I would argue the loss of points yesterday and the FA cup loss is on Ole's team choice.
 

Lee565

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In all honesty would we really have been worse of if james had not played and instead ole went with Fernandes as an inside forward on the left, mata as inside forward on the right with rashford as the striker and de beek or pogba making up a midfield 3 with mctominay and fred?
 

Alek M

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Has Luke Shaw delivered any good cross in his United career? Seems like Teles delivered more in one game than Shaw in his career
 

Sultan

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Has Luke Shaw delivered any good cross in his United career? Seems like Teles delivered more in one game than Shaw in his career
Our game is not geared towards getting at the end of crosses at present. We have quick forwards mostly using intricate passing from the centre, trickery and pace to score. This is why we get a lot of penalties. Very likely will change this once Cavani is on the pitch.
 

Sultan

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Has Luke Shaw delivered any good cross in his United career? Seems like Teles delivered more in one game than Shaw in his career
To be fair, he has been our stand out defender since the start of this campaign.
 

FreakyJim

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Has Luke Shaw delivered any good cross in his United career? Seems like Teles delivered more in one game than Shaw in his career
I've vague recollection of one or two. He tends do deliver good cut back low crosses but not standard ones. Both our fullbacks like to just smack them low and hard but Shaw tends to lift up his head more often and actually aim.
 

Still ill

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In this mental, unpredictable start to the premier league, with us having shipped 6 against Spurs in our last home game and Chelsea having conceded 3 against both Southampton and West Brom, i think it's understandable that both managers are looking to establish a solid base. That both erred on the side of caution is obvious but I can certainly see where they were coming from. It's not a scandal, a disgrace or an embarrassment, just slightly disappointing.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You are telling me that Chelsea are a terrible side and none of Werner, Pulisic, Havertz, Kante, Chilwell, Azpilicueta would get into our squad?


So, Ole finished last season above all of the ones you've commented, even considering Rodgers' great start of the season and the great implosion in the end.
Don’t mind the guy, the poster is trolling and you are wasting your time. I mean who the feck seriously complained and talked where we are on the table now when we have only played 5 games so far and still has one catch up game against Villa. Bloody City’s Pep only 1 point above us.
 

POF

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I think Pogba played a few minutes as the #10 when he was subbed on to get into the game rhythm. Once he got into it, they switched with Bruno and he played next to Fred (well, slightly in front of him) again.
He only moved deeper in the last few minutes when Greenwood replaced McTominay. He played number 10 for the rest of his time on the pitch.
 

RedBanker

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So when you put Cavani, Pogba, Greenwood and take Scott out, it means that we didn't want to win?
We even sacrificed the f****** balance to try to win that game.
We had x2 Rashford chances, x2 Cavani chances, and their keeper was on form, and their 5 defenders deep in their box were freaking out.
They had one shot at De Gea, everything else was wild, in fact I think it was 14 shots vs 6, 4 vs 1 on target.

I would have loved for us to score on our big chances but it's football, and our goal is to gain back the confidence lost while building up that fitness. It's happening, we will see the fruits soon. Rotation is a thing so we will see how we rotate.
If we wanted to win we would not have started with pointless players like James.
We would have started with Greenwood and VDB over James and Mata.
Anybody and their uncle knows that VDB deserves a start.
Also we let James stay on the pitch for 55 mins which means we played with 10 men for that period.
Then we shifted Bruno to the right...haha..fecking balance.
We have two full backs who can't cross for love or for money. But Telles was available right? Why did we play with 2 DMs who cannot find a creative pass?
 

Nik70

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I really don’t see any concern, we were the better team against a Chelsea side that cost a fortune, who everyone was shitting themselves over before the season began. It was a messy game, in the rain, slick pitch, and not ideal conditions. It really felt like both teams just wanted this one out of the way, and it’s hard to infer too much form it. But we should have won the game really, and we didn’t even have our starting centre forward available.

It’s bizarre how Dan James is being used as a stick to beat Ole with though. Really his selection was absolutely fine, he’s been here a year, and now we’re at the start of a new season and he’s got another chance to show his worth. It doesn’t matter how much he played last year, fresh season and fresh start. If you think Ole is going to keep playing him in important games then you’re dead wrong, if you think Ole can’t see that he’s not performing then you’re wrong on that count too. Even if for selfish reasons, Ole isn’t going to sabotage his own job to give James chances. This whole debate is so ridiculous. James is not going to be a consideration in any big game, he won’t start, he won’t come on, and probably won’t even make the bench. The “iTs bAd coAcHiNg!1” crowd are being especially moronic over this one. It’s super tiresome to see continual broad stroke conclusions about the overall state of the club after every single game.
I agree. I thought we played quite well and were the better team especially in the second half. I expected a draw for this game so maybe my expectations weren't as high as some of the people commenting here. Drawing conclusions from one game in which the opposition clearly set up to batten down the hatches would be ridiculous on it's own but the fact that we were the better team and created all the big chances makes it even more laughable.

Haven't said that I was surprised that Dan James was selected. He was our worst player yesterday and I suspect he will not be getting much of a look in for Premier League and CL games when we have a full squad to select from.
 

GenZRed

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I didn’t get over excited by Newcastle or PSG. United are a false dawn club. I feel no hope at this stage that things will ever get better. Just on a treadmill of mediocrity.
I couldn't agree more. As much as I enjoy individual wins, I don't get excited about 'Man United are back'. Some people get far too excited then end up being miserable when we end up losing. Some people are even talking about a title challenge, which is embarrassing.

Best mentality is not to get ahead of yourself when we win and not depressed when we lose. In other words, a sense of perspective.
 

TwoSheds

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To be fair, he has been our stand out defender since the start of this campaign.
He has? The only players who haven't had at least one laughably bad game are Telles and Tuanzebe. Possibly because they've barely played tbf.
 

Feed Me

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I couldn't agree more. As much as I enjoy individual wins, I don't get excited about 'Man United are back'. Some people get far too excited then end up being miserable when we end up losing. Some people are even talking about a title challenge, which is embarrassing.

Best mentality is not to get ahead of yourself when we win and not depressed when we lose. In other words, a sense of perspective.
I get depressed when I think how badly we’ve fallen :(
 

tjb

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I posted a while ago that we were not comfortably the third best club in the league and that Chelsea would be stiff competition this season.

What I saw last yesterday evening was a good competitive match, from which Chelsea will emerge happier with the result for earning an away point from a close rival.

The highlight, for me, was that we kept a clean sheet for the first time in the EPL this season, the downside we are still not scoring enough goals. The whole defence played well, including that no hoper LIndeloef, who was MoM IMO..

The media will be saying it's the worst start in 375 years and other hype, in reality we are 3 points away from 5th with a game in hand.
I think both are in a position to push on, but are both adapting to new signings and systems. After Spurs, Ole felt the need to revamp the team. We will see how we look the game after Arsenal. Similar with Chelsea. Both teams are closing the gap to the top but are in a semi transition.
 

Buster15

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I get depressed when I think how badly we’ve fallen :(
Awful isn't it.
And the decline has been evident on many fronts. Team, stadium, achievements, coaches.
But to me, easily the biggest decline is the lack of ambition of the club.

What is their objective?
Nothing about what is being done says anything about being the best.
It is all about mediocrity.
If you have no ambition, which we don't, if you are not improving, which we are not, you are going backwards. Which we are.
 

Feed Me

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Awful isn't it.
And the decline has been evident on many fronts. Team, stadium, achievements, coaches.
But to me, easily the biggest decline is the lack of ambition of the club.

What is their objective?
Nothing about what is being done says anything about being the best.
It is all about mediocrity.
If you have no ambition, which we don't, if you are not improving, which we are not, you are going backwards. Which we are.
Agree with every word. It makes for grim reading. The club has long since stopped giving a stuff about winning or being a top side. Heartbreaking.
 

lex talionis

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You're a genuine masochist, then. This place must be an endless source of pleasure for you.
I wouldn’t call it pleasure, but I am fascinated by hysterical posts on Internet forums, even when the substantive points are sound.

Case in point, this post:

“This is all on Ole and his shit decisions today. Stupid lineup, gave both Mata and James 55 minutes. Diabolical decision to even let James go out for the second half. Then he fecked up again by moving Bruno to the right, completely taking him off the game and letting McTominay and Fred pass the ball around like if we were 3-0 up. Put Greenwood on way too late too, the kid created two chances out of nowhere and made more in 5 minutes than James has done the entire season.

Crazy how he can smile about this at the end. And what is the point of VDB? He's been great in every game that he's played and yet nowhere to be seen.”

Apart from starting Mata, who earned his spot, I agree with the substantive points made above, but this poster overlooked Chelsea’s excellent defending and even better goalkeeping, who had a worldie against us last night.

Considering our struggles in the league so far this season a clean sheet point against Chelsea is a good result for us, and begins the sorting out of horrific defending that we really needed to prepare for the upcoming fixtures.

But I am annoyed that once Chelsea went into its shell early in the second half that Ole refused to bring VdB on. He’s a classy attacking midfielder who should have come on for either Fred or McTominay, who don’t offer anything in the final third.
 

wolvored

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If we wanted to win we would not have started with pointless players like James.
We would have started with Greenwood and VDB over James and Mata.
Anybody and their uncle knows that VDB deserves a start.
Also we let James stay on the pitch for 55 mins which means we played with 10 men for that period.
Then we shifted Bruno to the right...haha..fecking balance.
We have two full backs who can't cross for love or for money. But Telles was available right? Why did we play with 2 DMs who cannot find a creative pass?
This. well said. We lined up for a draw with 7 defensive players on the pitch. Surely a blind man on a galloping hoss can see James is a liability and Mata is only ok when he doesnt play a pressing team.
 

Snuffkin

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The line up and formation are what they are. But the lack of urgency worries me. We should have been bursting blood vessels. Obviously a draw was acceptable from the start. This would have been understandable if we had just been beaten by PSG and needed to steady the ship.
 

croadyman

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Agree with every word. It makes for grim reading. The club has long since stopped giving a stuff about winning or being a top side. Heartbreaking.
Yeah tough to see us have such a defensive mindset in games these days,only beat Newcastle because they gave us freedom of the city
 

sparx99

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Of the 14 teams above us only 6 clubs have played a game more than us. The rest of the 8 clubs have played the same as us. Of them only Newcastle and Soton have the same points as us.
Those teams will be playing each other. They can't all win.
 

Jonno

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Groundhog Day.

Supporting United is largely a joyless existence.

We should have put Chelsea to the sword today but paid the price for a cowardly team selection.

A good manager would have this team challenging for the title this season.
Were 1 point different to bookies favourites, Man City. Is Pep not a good manager?
 

arthurka

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Minus the ones where he defends well then such as the recent games vs PSG, Chelsea, Newcastle for a start.
He has played more than the games this season, hopefully you saw him defend v Palace, Spurs and Brighton? Plus he has been playing here last 6 seasons I am basing my view on him over these seasons not couple of games. The only game I thought he did well was against PSG where the team defended well overall but yesterday Chelsea did even try attacking and v Newcastle he didn't look very good at all.

Gladly this Shaw fetish will end when Telles gets up and running.
 

dutchred

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I think Ole should find a system and stick to it. We should also use the same system at under 23 level. This is how ajax operate and why players find it easy to move from the youth to the first team.
Personally I prefer 3 4 3
if we play this then
De Gea ( Henderson)
Tuanzebe ( Lindelof) Lindelof(Maguire)) Shaw (Maquire)
Williams (AWB) Donny (Pogba) Fred (Mac) Telles (Fred)
Bruno (Mata)
Martial (Cavani) Rashford (Mason)

Just be consistent with the system and the everyone knows exactly what is expected of them.
The constant changing depending on the opposition cant be helping to get consistency.
Of course we need to be flexible and have a plan B. but is during the course of a game, not as a game plan
 

yan man utd

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Quite simply should have been 433 or 442 not 5 at the back especially if you don’t play Telles.

and even more so with mctominay and Fred in front of them like we should be scared against chavski

one of Pogba or can de beek
Should def have played

he has to go On the offensive

way too conservative

we need to win games
 

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204,34,45
  • Man Utd win
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  • 25% Man Utd 2:1 Chelsea
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Possession
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Shots
14 6
Shots on Target
4 1
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Fouls
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Referee

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