[Alabaster Codify7]

1st half - good.
2nd half - embarassing and cowardly.

Jose is never going to learn, is he, in terms of the risk he's taking by parking the bus and hoping for a draw?

I'm a Jose supporter but I'm slowly becoming indifferent to him. Let's hope we can beat CSKA without leaving first gear as we've got tough games either side.

 

[Siorac]

Exactly , But if we loose 4-0 and not 7-0 than cska will have a better goal difference than us head to head of +1 ,we have better GD h2h than basel or +2 and Basel Have better h2h gd than moscow of +1. All 3 level on 12 points.

Than it has to come to other stats by these rules of goal difference in group matches where if basel win by 4-0 and we loose even 1-0 we loose top spot.

the order given, to determine the rankings (Regulations Articles 17.01):[2]

1. Points in head-to-head matches among tied teams;
2. Goal difference in head-to-head matches among tied teams;
3. Goals scored in head-to-head matches among tied teams;
4. Away goals scored in head-to-head matches among tied teams;
5. If more than two teams are tied, and after applying all head-to-head criteria above, a subset of teams are still tied, all head-to-head criteria above are reapplied exclusively to this subset of teams;
6. Goal difference in all group matches;
7. Goals scored in all group matches;
8. Away goals scored in all group matches;
9. Wins in all group matches;
10. Away wins in all group matches;
11. Disciplinary points (red card = 3 points, yellow card = 1 point, expulsion for two yellow cards in one match = 3 points);
12. UEFA club coefficient.

Again, it doesn't matter one bit if Basel beat Benfica 1-0 or 23-0. Goal difference between the teams tied on points comes way before overall goal difference.

If CSKA beats us, then United, CSKA, and Basel will be tied on 12 points and they will all have 6 points from the games played against each other. So, goal difference in the games played between the three teams is the next tiebreaker. Currently it stands like this:

United: +5
Basel: -1
CSKA: -4

Basel cannot improve their own goal difference in the games played between these three teams because they won't play neither United nor CSKA. So it comes down to how heavily we lose to CSKA. If we lose 5-0, our goal difference will be 0, CSKA's will be +1 so they overtake us. Basel remain at -1 and thus stay behind us. If we lose 7-0, CSKA will have a GD of +3, Basel will still have -1 and we will have -2, therefore we finish third.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

1st half - good.
2nd half - embarassing and cowardly.

Jose is never going to learn, is he, in terms of the risk he's taking by parking the bus and hoping for a draw?

I'm a Jose supporter but I'm slowly becoming indifferent to him. Let's hope we can beat CSKA without leaving first gear as we've got tough games either side.

He will never learn. i have stopped expecting good performances in the away games. Basel tried to win and we were happy playing for a draw. And people compare him with SAF who never played for a draw.

Also, the dreadful players need to be blamed too. Have lost all confidence in Herrera, Darmian and Blind.

 

[MrBest]

Goes to show how good young and Valencia have been.

Can someone explain what lukaku offers apart from goals, considering he now has 1 in 8 for us. His first touch is awful and so is his on the ball movement. I'm just curious to what others think ...

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Goes to show how good young and Valencia have been.

Can someone explain what lukaku offers apart from goals, considering he now has 1 in 8 for us. His first touch is awful and so is his on the ball movement. I'm just curious to what others think ...

Well, he is good at holding his head in his hands in astonishment after missing half decent chances

 

[TimScoreboard]

Basel deserved the goal and the win.

That United side tonight were just dire really.

Joyless, boring drivel football that no-one should be paying to watch, let alone paying to travel to and watch.

And I'm a fan of Mourinho. But come on, this is just so boring.

We were very poor 2nd half, but the game should have been done and dusted, because they were so weak, we should have been at least 3 or 4 up at half time. Our problem was... the first half was too easy and we thought it was when, not if, we put them away and we became lazy and lacked motivation. We stopped playing and paid the price; it was one of those games that bit us on the arse.
Hopefully we'll have a bit of anger in us now, come the weekend and give them a good hiding.

 

[automaticflare]

Again, it doesn't matter one bit if Basel beat Benfica 1-0 or 23-0. Goal difference between the teams tied on points comes way before overall goal difference.

If CSKA beats us, then United, CSKA, and Basel will be tied on 12 points and they will all have 6 points from the games played against each other. So, goal difference in the games played between the three teams is the next tiebreaker. Currently it stands like this:

United: +5
Basel: -1
CSKA: -4

Basel cannot improve their own goal difference in the games played between these three teams because they won't play neither United nor CSKA. So it comes down to how heavily we lose to CSKA. If we lose 5-0, our goal difference will be 0, CSKA's will be +1 so they overtake us. Basel remain at -1 and thus stay behind us. If we lose 7-0, CSKA will have a GD of +3, Basel will still have -1 and we will have -2, therefore we finish third.

Hopefully no more questions on this now

 

[Sarni]

If Basel win at Benfica then we do need to lose 7-0 to be eliminated and end up in the Europa League. A 5-0 loss in this scenario would mean finishing second.

If Basel do not win at Benfica, then we are through. In that case, a 4-0 loss would see us drop to second place.

OMG WE CANNOT REST PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Siorac]

OMG WE CANNOT REST PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Without Pogba, Matic and De Gea we're bound to lose 9-0, no hope whatsoever.

 

[Sarni]

Again, it doesn't matter one bit if Basel beat Benfica 1-0 or 23-0. Goal difference between the teams tied on points comes way before overall goal difference.

If CSKA beats us, then United, CSKA, and Basel will be tied on 12 points and they will all have 6 points from the games played against each other. So, goal difference in the games played between the three teams is the next tiebreaker. Currently it stands like this:

United: +5
Basel: -1
CSKA: -4

Basel cannot improve their own goal difference in the games played between these three teams because they won't play neither United nor CSKA. So it comes down to how heavily we lose to CSKA. If we lose 5-0, our goal difference will be 0, CSKA's will be +1 so they overtake us. Basel remain at -1 and thus stay behind us. If we lose 7-0, CSKA will have a GD of +3, Basel will still have -1 and we will have -2, therefore we finish third.

We cannot rest a single player, otherwise we are going to lose 7-0 at home to CSKA Moscow and go out

Strongest team possible. Maybe recall Ronaldo. We need to be at full force.

BELIEVE

 

[Lentwood]

Ferguson's approach to CL group games was a legitimate cause for criticism and ended up getting us knocked out (by Basle, ironically) in his second from last season.

I agree it wasn't a vital game in the position we're in, and the team selection and substitutions reflected that, but that shouldn't mask how terrible the performance was. It showed what we can expect if we pick up one or two injuries again.

It's not that I disagree with you but you aren't telling me anything that isn't already obvious. The recent loss of Pogba shows that we are only one injury away from having to rely on the same old nothing footballers who are barely above average. Jose knows that though and so do most of our fans.

If Jose had had an unlimited budget a la Pep at City I would be amazed if half of those who started last night where even still at the club now. Problem is he can't bomb out 6/7 players in one window because it would leave us massively short.

 

[noodlehair]

It's not that I disagree with you but you aren't telling me anything that isn't already obvious. The recent loss of Pogba shows that we are only one injury away from having to rely on the same old nothing footballers who are barely above average. Jose knows that though and so do most of our fans.

If Jose had had an unlimited budget a la Pep at City I would be amazed if half of those who started last night where even still at the club now. Problem is he can't bomb out 6/7 players in one window because it would leave us massively short.

Well he has already signed what, 8 players? (albeit two of them were both Zlatan)...and he inherited a squad that finished just outside of the top four...not a team of complete dross.

He has done a good job overall but it's a little concerning to me that we are constantly about two injuries away from looking like a barely even glorified West Brom.

A lot of players seem to have fallen off the boil massively this season. Herrera for example is never going to be a world beater, but last season he was a useful player who you could play or bring into the team and trust to do a good enough job. This season he is a mile off that. There are spells in games where he is literally just kicking the ball in whatever direction he is facing, or sometime just directly up in the air. I mean, you or me could do that. You don't have to spend hundreds of millions year on year to be expecting better.

 

[SachinJ22]

Without Pogba, Matic and De Gea we're bound to lose 9-0, no hope whatsoever.

I thought I was Poster of Nonsense but this takes the cake.

Unless it's sarcasm.

 

[whatwha]

I thought I was Poster of Nonsense but this takes the cake.

 

[Sing you a song]

One thing I don't understand why on earth is he taking Shaw to all these games when he has no intention of playing him ? Is it just to humiliate the lad ? Because if Blind is seen as a better option then there is obviously no hope for him good god we are missing young at left back !! how on earth did the full backs get this bad

 

[Twisted Nerve]

Can someone explain what lukaku offers apart from goals, considering he now has 1 in 8 for us. His first touch is awful and so is his on the ball movement. I'm just curious to what others think ...

Well, he is good at holding his head in his hands in astonishment after missing half decent chances

He is also good at thumbing up/clapping to the player who just put in a shit cross that he couldn't get on the end of.

 

[I Believe]

Some better finishing and we would have been in complete control by half-time.

I agree, but IMO the United players were far too laid back, there was no real urgency, we weren't exactly playing for the draw, but we were not playing with any real conviction and chances went begging; it was depressing to have so much control and not be able to score.
Obviously we are still a long way of being able to pick up the pace when necessary and IMO that again signifies the lack of leadership on the pitch itself

 

[buckooo1978]

Maybe but what about CSKA?

that was intentional

we will beat CSKA so badly that Spartak will feel it

 

[I Believe]

He is also good at thumbing up/clapping to the player who just put in a shit cross that he couldn't get on the end of.

What you say is true, although Lukaku looks like a grown man, physically etc. but he is insecure, he's very much like a little boy too eager please, people who are letting him down in the way they play to him and around him, he should go over and give them a real 'rollocking'. On his game, Lukaku needs the ball played over his head to chase down, where he can be devastating, but other than that he needs to improve his game when taking the ball facing away from the opponents goal, when 'laying off', his passes are invariably under-hit, he more often than not seems to get caught 'back on his heels' when the ball comes to him, defenders often get off the mark faster than he does, almost like he's thinking "oh that's for me is it" then sets off chasing the ball and usually the defender as well.

Its still early days yet for Lukaku, but Josie needs to pull him occasionally when things are not going well, yes it may upset him, but also if he's left to suffer, that might undermine his confidence as well. For me during this barren spell he has looked more dangerous out on the right wing, using his speed and strength, cutting into the box like he did for his last goal against Newcastle and he's not bad with his crossing either!

 

[The Brown Bull]

Got what we deserved.

 

[edgar allan]

What you say is true, although Lukaku looks like a grown man, physically etc. but he is insecure, he's very much like a little boy too eager please, people who are letting him down in the way they play to him and around him, he should go over and give them a real 'rollocking'. On his game, Lukaku needs the ball played over his head to chase down, where he can be devastating, but other than that he needs to improve his game when taking the ball facing away from the opponents goal, when 'laying off', his passes are invariably under-hit, he more often than not seems to get caught 'back on his heels' when the ball comes to him, defenders often get off the mark faster than he does, almost like he's thinking "oh that's for me is it" then sets off chasing the ball and usually the defender as well.

Its still early days yet for Lukaku, but Josie needs to pull him occasionally when things are not going well, yes it may upset him, but also if he's left to suffer, that might undermine his confidence as well. For me during this barren spell he has looked more dangerous out on the right wing, using his speed and strength, cutting into the box like he did for his last goal against Newcastle and he's not bad with his crossing either!

I know he has no responsibility for his extortionate transfer fee but we really could do with a forward that can actually control and pass a ball.

He needs to improve his core skills in the same way that Valencia needs to improve his crossing or Darmian his positional sense.....if he doesn't have it by now its hardly going to improve hugely.
No one could look anymore out of the place than he did on the wing at the weekend when Ibra came on, he is no more a wide player than Phil Jones is.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Goodness. The Lukaku bashing and overreaction on here is pathetic.

 

[SachinJ22]

One thing I don't understand why on earth is he taking Shaw to all these games when he has no intention of playing him ? Is it just to humiliate the lad ? Because if Blind is seen as a better option then there is obviously no hope for him good god we are missing young at left back !! how on earth did the full backs get this bad

Even Young isn't that good, he is inconsistent and he isn't even a fullback. But he has been better than the other players who have played in that position. Darmian is poor in attack, Blind is poor in defence, Shaw had the talent but has attitude problems. We really need a good LB and also an RB, it's really shocking that we have only one specialist fullback (Darmian) and the other specialist fullback (Shaw) is out of favour. I know Valencia has done well but even that is a square peg in a round hole situation. Maybe the younger players should get more chances.

 

[SachinJ22]

Goodness. The Lukaku bashing and overreaction on here is pathetic.

They will bash anyone, if DDG starts playing badly they will bash him too.

 

[I Believe]

No one could look anymore out of the place than he did on the wing at the weekend when Ibra came on, he is no more a wide player than Phil Jones is.

I agree, he is no right winger, but relatively speaking he did more on the right side in those few minutes, his cross for Rashford's nod back to Pogba and his own goal came off the right side, than he had done for the rest of the match playing down the middle. When Lukaku tries to play with his back to the opponents goal to hold up play, it becomes embarrassing.

United regardless of managers have been doing this for years, we tend to buy a striker with a particular style and then ask him to play differently, all the way back to Ted MacDougall, only Stuart Pearson and RVN, played in the style they were bought for, I suppose RVP, despite competition with Rooney, also managed a season in his old style.

 

[notcool]

Spoiler: Man Utd before the goal

Looking at this you can clearly see that Darmian is overloaded on our right side. Both their wingbacks are forward. We have enough numbers back to deal with that because Rashford has dropped, making it 8v7. The problem is that they aren't arranged correctly.

One way to deal with this would have been to have to have Lukaku on the other side go back with his wingback and let Rashford stay up the pitch. This makes sense because the long pass forwards came from the nearside of the pitch so it should probably have been the farside winger going back. This might have been what would have happened if Lingard was on the pitch, so maybe Mourinho paid for being too conservative and playing with two centre-forwards.

Another way to deal with this is to temporarily shift to a sort of diamond in midfield and have Rashford at the tip. This is probably the best way to deal with it as the wingbacks are pushed very far forward and you don't want your wingers to have to go so far back. EDIT: The wingback on the farside probably wouldn't be as far forward if Lukaku had tracked back on that side so the 4-3-3 shape would have worked pretty well. He has been able to push up so far because Basel have an extra man in midfield - the reason players on the flanks push forward (dominance in the centre).

I think this shows that the goal was not really Darmian's or Blind's fault, and they have been unfairly scapegoated. Perhaps some other part of their performances warrants criticism though.

 

[Fitchett]

I'm getting an angry with these performances and results against mediocre opposition. We were fine first half; second half was a Huddersfield type performance: lazy, sloppy, complacent. There's no excuse to be losing against a team like that; a team with a fraction of our quality and resources. Switzerland isn't even a proper country; it's bits of three countries which have mutually agreed a tax dodge. We are still mentally weak; there aren't enough hard professionals in the side, and I maintain there are numerous players in the squad who have no right being at Manchester United. Darmian, Smalling, Blind, Lingard are run of the mill professionals of the Darron Gibson/ Tom Cleverley ilk, IMHO. When asked to prove themselves, they fail. Fellaini has already said he's leaving, so we need about half a dozen cleared out. Pogba was again a class apart, but to compete at the highest level we need several players of his quality.

Too much deadwood; not enough grit. Still a long way to go for this team to be winning the title or Champions League.

This made me laugh. Haven't the Glazers registered the United business in the Cayman Islands for the same reason?