[Twisted Nerve]

At the very least, this game should serve as a reminder that we are not very good. Up until recently, we had only beaten dross teams. Had we won this game, people might still be under the impression that we were any good and could actually beat Spurs and Chelsea.

 

[NK86]

I said remove both KDB and Silva. If one of them is absent the other can compensate for him.

And let's be honest our midfield has been pure shite in the last days under SAF and we were screaming for proper midfield for age it's not like we didn't have any problem at all.

Just one qtn. You comparing Fellaini to Silva or KDB?

 

[MataFanatic]

Bad vibes all around unfortunately since last week against Liverpool. I sometimes think Jose has a habit of playing his sides into bad form. There was no need to be that negative against Liverpool. Even against Benfica I thought the side was set up not to lose. Need to be a bit more confident in the team's ability to take it to teams. We were really off the pace in the first half against Huddersfield and deserved to 2 down at half time. Played better in the second half but again the real urgency was missing and the second tended to drift. Need to pick ourselves up and get a win now during the week. We'll have to right at it from the start against Spurs or else it'll turn real bad, real quick for us in the league

 

[el3mel]

Just one qtn. You comparing Fellaini to Silva or KDB?

No, but it depends on how using the player indicates their value and Fellaini has been very valuable to our style.

 

[prtk0811]

Bad vibes all around unfortunately since last week against Liverpool. I sometimes think Jose has a habit of playing his sides into bad form. There was no need to be that negative against Liverpool. Even against Benfica I thought the side was set up not to lose. Need to be a bit more confident in the team's ability to take it to teams. We were really off the pace in the first half against Huddersfield and deserved to 2 down at half time. Played better in the second half but again the real urgency was missing and the second tended to drift. Need to pick ourselves up and get a win now during the week. We'll have to right at it from the start against Spurs or else it'll turn real bad, real quick for us in the league

We have brough on pressure on us ourelves yes. Spurs is a crucial game now and we must make a statement against them.

 

[breakout67]

No, but it depends on how using the player indicates their value and Fellaini has been very valuable to our style.

It is not about whether you rate the player or not, it is about the function within the team.

Matic's partner in midfield must close the distance to the no.10 and also provide a goal threat.

Hererra is a technically better player than Fellaini, but he does not bring the right qualities to partner Matic. He releases the ball very quickly (doesnt close distance to other players) and is shockingly bad in front of goal.

It is fair to say that Pogba is as important to the team as Kdb and Silva are to city. And fellaini is an important back-up but not at the same level. This is reflected in the performances with these players; with Pogba we looked to be able to go toe-to-toe with City but with Fellaini we fall to a lower level but still functioning well.

 

[el3mel]

It is not about whether you rate the player or not, it is about the function within the team.

Matic's partner in midfield must close the distance to the no.10 and also provide a goal threat.

Hererra is a technically better player than Fellaini, but he does not bring the right qualities to partner Matic. He releases the ball very quickly (doesnt close distance to other players) and is shockingly bad in front of goal.

It is fair to say that Pogba is as important to the team as Kdb and Silva are to city. And fellaini is an important back-up but not at the same level. This is reflected in the performances with these players; with Pogba we looked to be able to go toe-to-toe with City but with Fellaini we fall to a lower level but still functioning well.

Great post. You're always saying what I want to say in better words.

 

[don't sign old players]

Rashford best on ground. He's the only one who's prepared to run hard on and off the ball. Lukaku as well, I suppose. The others appear lazy and static.

 

[MThomas]

No, but it depends on how using the player indicates their value and Fellaini has been very valuable to our style.

 

[MThomas]

It is not about whether you rate the player or not, it is about the function within the team.

Matic's partner in midfield must close the distance to the no.10 and also provide a goal threat.

Hererra is a technically better player than Fellaini, but he does not bring the right qualities to partner Matic. He releases the ball very quickly (doesnt close distance to other players) and is shockingly bad in front of goal.

It is fair to say that Pogba is as important to the team as Kdb and Silva are to city. And fellaini is an important back-up but not at the same level. This is reflected in the performances with these players; with Pogba we looked to be able to go toe-to-toe with City but with Fellaini we fall to a lower level but still functioning well.

I think there's a somewhat absurd focus on numbers, number this and number that. When was the last time we had an attacking midfielder supplying goals galore. We didn't need it the last time we dominated the league.

Matic doesn't need someone next to him that closes the distance to the no 10, he doesn't need someone to also provide a goal threat. What you need is movement. Midfielders who can hold on to the ball, pass it into the right path, make themselves available to receive it again. There's too much distance between the players, the passing is too slow and when a player receives the ball there's limited options because the movement is static.

Matic was involved in a situation that is a decent example, he passed the ball up to one of the forward players (don't remember who) who had two defenders on him, he passes the ball into space where he expects Matic to move (and where should move), but Matic expects it to be passed straight to him so a Huddersfield player collects it instead. If there isn't enough player movement, it's bloody easy for the opposition to mark our forwards. You pass it, you move into space to receive it, and if you can't receive it another player should be making himself available at the same time.

We barely have that, at all. If you look at the Benfica match, the Huddersfield match, how often Mkhi runs up and stands next to Lukaku, surrounded by players, waiting for the ball. It's absurd. All it does is make crowded area even more crowded. He has to move further down the pitch, make himself available for the pass, free up space.

We solely depend on individuals. Give the ball to someone and hope they pull off something brilliant.

 

[don't sign old players]

I think there's a somewhat absurd focus on numbers, number this and number that. When was the last time we had an attacking midfielder supplying goals galore. We didn't need it the last time we dominated the league.

Matic doesn't need someone next to him that closes the distance to the no 10, he doesn't need someone to also provide a goal threat. What you need is movement. Midfielders who can hold on to the ball, pass it into the right path, make themselves available to receive it again. There's too much distance between the players, the passing is too slow and when a player receives the ball there's limited options because the movement is static.

Matic was involved in a situation that is a decent example, he passed the ball up to one of the forward players (don't remember who) who had two defenders on him, he passes the ball into space where he expects Matic to move (and where should move), but Matic expects it to be passed straight to him so a Huddersfield player collects it instead. If there isn't enough player movement, it's bloody easy for the opposition to mark our forwards. You pass it, you move into space to receive it, and if you can't receive it another player should be making himself available at the same time.

We barely have that, at all. If you look at the Benfica match, the Huddersfield match, how often Mkhi runs up and stands next to Lukaku, surrounded by players, waiting for the ball. It's absurd. All it does is make crowded area even more crowded. He has to move further down the pitch, make himself available for the pass, free up space.

We solely depend on individuals. Give the ball to someone and hope they pull off something brilliant.

I agree with what you say up to the last sentence. We don't have many that can really pull off something brilliant. Passing and movement followed by someone pulling off something brilliant = perfection. We're a million miles away.

 

[Aniefiok]

“When I lose matches, I like to lose matches because the opponents were better than us and had more quality than us. When you lose a match because of attitude, that’s really bad. I heard Ander Herrera in his flash interview saying the attitude and desire was poor. Oh my God, when a player says that and feels that, I think they should all go to the press conference and explain why. Of course, it concerns me. It happened today so why can’t it happen tomorrow. I think so honestly [it’s the first time I’ve seen that], I don’t even remember a friendly match when our attitude was so poor.



Is he mad at Herrera???

 

[Craig Ward]

Honestly do not know what has happened to us the last 3 games. We've turned into a team who cannot pass, making too many errors, no confidence, no fluidity and are being set up way way too defensively.

We are Manchester united, we are better than this. No belief or intent to win against Liverpool, Benfica or Huddersfield.

Its down to tactics and attitude, simple as that. Players can win these games no doubt, no idea why we are so defensive and poor with the ball

 

[trevor newnham]

For some reason, we have got into a negative frame of mind. It started at Liverpool and can only have come from the top. When its drummed into you that you mustnt lose, you get into a negative frame of mind. When it is drummed into you that you will score and pass and move, then you get into a positive frame of mind. I dont think it has anything to do with tactics or shirt numbers, I think it is downto psychology. I know I havent framed this properly. There are cleverer people on here who can probably articulate this old fool's thoughts better. I just know that having played team sports for 45 years, psychology is more important than anything else.

 

[Nash27]

Guys, lets be positive. Only the first defeat of the season and we are already giving up? I am sure we will put in a much better performance against spurs. No need to panic and be worried yet. Let's take it as one-off. Still early days and it only takes one weekend in our favour to change the complexion/narrative of the title race. Compared to last season, we are in a much better position and nobody can deny we have improved.

 

[NK86]

No, but it depends on how using the player indicates their value and Fellaini has been very valuable to our style.

Still, you cannot compare the loss of Fellaini to two of the best attacking CMs in Europe. It's like comparing losing Ashley Young to Ronaldo. We still have two fantastic CMs and our attacking play was shite.

The problem is our players seem to play like they have all met at the park for the first time. There seems to be no cohesion at all. Fellaini is not going to solve that. Yeah we will perhaps lump the ball more successfully but is that all there is to attacking patterns?

 

[grahamo]

Haven't been able to talk about it all weekend. Disgusted with that performance. Those players should feel guilty taking their massive wages this week. They were outfought all over the pitch. Schoolboy errors for the goals. They are at MANCHESTER UNITED. The best football club ever. If they don't want to be United players then they should leave. I'm sure there are others who would kick there grannies out of the way to get the chance to play for United.

 

[NK86]

I think there's a somewhat absurd focus on numbers, number this and number that. When was the last time we had an attacking midfielder supplying goals galore. We didn't need it the last time we dominated the league.

Matic doesn't need someone next to him that closes the distance to the no 10, he doesn't need someone to also provide a goal threat. What you need is movement. Midfielders who can hold on to the ball, pass it into the right path, make themselves available to receive it again. There's too much distance between the players, the passing is too slow and when a player receives the ball there's limited options because the movement is static.

Matic was involved in a situation that is a decent example, he passed the ball up to one of the forward players (don't remember who) who had two defenders on him, he passes the ball into space where he expects Matic to move (and where should move), but Matic expects it to be passed straight to him so a Huddersfield player collects it instead. If there isn't enough player movement, it's bloody easy for the opposition to mark our forwards. You pass it, you move into space to receive it, and if you can't receive it another player should be making himself available at the same time.

We barely have that, at all. If you look at the Benfica match, the Huddersfield match, how often Mkhi runs up and stands next to Lukaku, surrounded by players, waiting for the ball. It's absurd. All it does is make crowded area even more crowded. He has to move further down the pitch, make himself available for the pass, free up space.

We solely depend on individuals. Give the ball to someone and hope they pull off something brilliant.

Very well said. The part about there being too much space between players when we move the ball forward is so true and clear as day. Compare that to how Spurs move the ball. There seems to be a cohesion and symphony to their movements. For us the attackers all seem to run away from the ball at the same time. The midfielders are then isolated and thus makes it even more difficult to pass forward with fluidity. Our defenders have to lump it forward under the slightest pressure because that seems to be the message from the management. There is no attempt to play it out which is saddening after spending millions on high profile players.

 

[Bestietom]

We should be beating these teams, no matter who is out injured. We have a big squad yes, but a lot of deadwood still.

A hell of a job to do for Mourinho, but he has to clear out before he brings more new players in. We need 2 full backs, wingers and a couple of creative players.

Mata and Mkhitaryan are not showing up anything for us this season and need to be benched.

 

[misterredmist]

I think that we have to give Huddersfield some respect for their tactics, which, by forcing two errors out of us for their goals, which we obviously helped them with, and then they just sat back on their penalty area and toughed it out. Yes, we miss Pogba, and may be Felli too, unfortunately Mikhi has gone off the boil so our creativity is not great. But that's football, the proof will be in how we react to the set back.....

 

[Verbalkint]

Viva Lindelof

I happened to watch Mindhunter after the game and the main actor reminded me so much of Lindelof... unbelievably pissing off. How could he make an error like that...nuts!

 

[SirFergie]

We looked leggy, no energy and no ideas. Might be the kick up the arse and reality check that this squad and Mourinho needed. Hopefully it re-focuses him and the players. He needs to stop being a shithouse against the top 5/6 and start attacking them. The Liverpool game has annoyed me beyond what Saturday has done.

 

[el3mel]

Still, you cannot compare the loss of Fellaini to two of the best attacking CMs in Europe. It's like comparing losing Ashley Young to Ronaldo. We still have two fantastic CMs and our attacking play was shite.

The problem is our players seem to play like they have all met at the park for the first time. There seems to be no cohesion at all. Fellaini is not going to solve that. Yeah we will perhaps lump the ball more successfully but is that all there is to attacking patterns?

Again I didn't say he's better than both, but for our system he's very important. He's not obviously first choice but plan b for our first choice who's already injuried as well. If you can't compare Fellaini to both then sure you can compare Pogba ?

I agree that the team looked completely disjointed going forward these 3 games but the main issue IMO lies in the midfield not in the forward players abilities or our tactics, since the team before the break looked very good while going forward and sorry but anyone says we were as bad since start of the season has the shadow of last defeat covering his eyes. Since Pogba's injury the free fluid attack decreased a lot but Fellaini as a long balls target reduced the issues a bit. When he got injuried as well we were stuck with 2 DMFs in the midfield forcing the number 10 to drop deeper to get the ball, and since he loses the ball nonstop himself the forward line got isolated and we looked very disjointed when attacking. All the problems like in the midfield partnership I won't blame Lukaku or the 2 wingers.

 

[Hambley]

We have a slight decline right now. It happens to every team so I don't think this is the end of the world. We couldn't mess up anything for several games. I'm sure we will start taking points and hammering opponents in some time. Probably when Pogba, Bailly and Fellaini come back. No need to worry.

 

[Escobar]

Still pissed about the result. I wonder why a top team can play such static, slow football and on top not be able to create chances

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Still pissed about the result. I wonder why a top team can play such static, slow football and on top not be able to create chances

Same; two days on and I'm still seething. These embarrassing defeats against newly promoted sides are becoming a habit: Burnley, Bournemouth and now Huddersfield. If we want to compete for league titles again, these type of fixtures mustn't be lost.

I listened to the commentary on Five Live, where, despite that prick Lawrenson, Huddersfield were described as the better side throughout. It wasn't a fluke, they were the better team on the day, and that is unacceptable. The feel good factor is well and truly punctured. If we play like that against Spurs, they will murder us.

 

[peridigm]

Still pissed about the result. I wonder why a top team can play such static, slow football and on top not be able to create chances

Reminds me of the LVG era.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

I still have no idea what Lindelof was trying to do for the second goal. He looks frightened to death just now. He's only 22 and it's a massive move for him; we all remember De Gea's early problems, so he needs time. Perhaps the squad isn't as strong as we thought: take Bailly out of the defence and Pogba out of the midfield and we look vulnerable. If Jones is out for any length of time again, in addition to Bailly's absence, we could be in trouble.

Is there any word on either?

 

[el3mel]

I still have no idea what Lindelof was trying to do for the second goal. He looks frightened to death just now. He's only 22 and it's a massive move for him; we all remember De Gea's early problems, so he needs time. Perhaps the squad isn't as strong as we thought: take Bailly out of the defence and Pogba out of the midfield and we look vulnerable. If Jones is out for any length of time again, in addition to Bailly's absence, we could be in trouble.

Is there any word on either?

Bailly will be back by Spurs game. Nothing is known about Jones so far.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Bailly will be back by Spurs game. Nothing is known about Jones so far.

Cheers, mate. Well that's a massive boost at least. We need him for that one, and it would be even better if Jones is fit. Smalling in the team always leaves me with doubts.

 

[NK86]

Again I didn't say he's better than both, but for our system he's very important. He's not obviously first choice but plan b for our first choice who's already injuried as well. If you can't compare Fellaini to both then sure you can compare Pogba ?

I agree that the team looked completely disjointed going forward these 3 games but the main issue IMO lies in the midfield not in the forward players abilities or our tactics, since the team before the break looked very good while going forward and sorry but anyone says we were as bad since start of the season has the shadow of last defeat covering his eyes. Since Pogba's injury the free fluid attack decreased a lot but Fellaini as a long balls target reduced the issues a bit. When he got injuried as well we were stuck with 2 DMFs in the midfield forcing the number 10 to drop deeper to get the ball, and since he loses the ball nonstop himself the forward line got isolated and we looked very disjointed when attacking. All the problems like in the midfield partnership I won't blame Lukaku or the 2 wingers.

What you are forgetting is that a lot of our high scoring games was when we got goals in the last 10 mins with the opposing team trying to get a goal. It's not like we were swatting teams away in the first 45 mins. Yes our play was better but not as fluid as the scorelines made them look.

As for Fellaini, as I said the only option he provides is lumping it forward. If the manager cannot get a system to work with two high quality MFs just because Pogba is injured then there is something massively wrong as the answer to an injury cannot be lumping it forward to Fellaini. Surely there are other ways to make us more fluid.

 

[BigBebe]

I watched the second half again (don't ask me why), two things made me more irritated than I already was.

First, those two half-time substitutions wound me up. Surely, if you are 2:0 down, you don't do 2 like for like substitutions, you change the system around. It was a great opportunity to try Martial, Rashford and Lukaku together having all three running at them might just have unsettled the Huddersfield defence a bit more. So make one substitution, Rashford for Mata. Also, it means that we had no options in the second half to change anything around so we ended up with Smalling up front and Martial sitting on the bench.

Also, I don't understand why Valencia is captain. He sits out on the wing and there does not seem to be much communication between him and the rest of the team nor with any incidents around the referee. I know that the role of captain can be a bit overstated but one of the things he is meant to do is be the interface with the referee. It seems a bit odd that the only person in the team who is, strictly speaking, allowed to interact with the ref only speaks limited English.

I don't think that the loss was down to lack of trying, just a total lack of quality and ideas.

 

[hn4manunited]

This really shows our real depth. We are definitely a couple of windows away from having good depth. If we want to be real title contenders, a few injuries shouldn’t take our options down to almost nothing.

I thought we looked like we were caught off guard with how aggressive and committed the opponents were. Wagner is a good manager and have set them up well. We just looked like we may have expected an easier game than that.

I thought the biggest losers in this game were Martial, Lingard, Mata, Herrera, and Lindelof. I think Martial probably dissapointed the most. He had a lot to gain in this game but he just didn’t seize his opportunity. I think Herrera could have been more solid in this game but just wasn’t in it. Lindelof, we as well as Jose knew wasn’t ready and We didn’t have other options. Mata just looked over powered and over paced. He was always chasing the game. Lingard wasn’t himself here.

 

[breakout67]

What you are forgetting is that a lot of our high scoring games was when we got goals in the last 10 mins with the opposing team trying to get a goal. It's not like we were swatting teams away in the first 45 mins. Yes our play was better but not as fluid as the scorelines made them look.

As for Fellaini, as I said the only option he provides is lumping it forward. If the manager cannot get a system to work with two high quality MFs just because Pogba is injured then there is something massively wrong as the answer to an injury cannot be lumping it forward to Fellaini. Surely there are other ways to make us more fluid.

It seems Fellaini never gets any credit now. As if playing him means we pump long balls to him.

He was a genuinely good midfielder this season. Very difficult to dispossess, strong in the tackle, carries the ball well, dangerous on set pieces, good at defending set pieces.

He's no Pogba but he was favoured over Herrera because he has shown himself to be better than him in a 2 with Matic.

 

[el3mel]

What you are forgetting is that a lot of our high scoring games was when we got goals in the last 10 mins with the opposing team trying to get a goal. It's not like we were swatting teams away in the first 45 mins. Yes our play was better but not as fluid as the scorelines made them look.

As for Fellaini, as I said the only option he provides is lumping it forward. If the manager cannot get a system to work with two high quality MFs just because Pogba is injured then there is something massively wrong as the answer to an injury cannot be lumping it forward to Fellaini. Surely there are other ways to make us more fluid.

I don't understand using us scoring goals in last 10 minutes as a stick to beat our team. In a previous season we would have considered this a great indication for our spirit and being in the game at the final minutes, being able to stay solid defensively and hurt teams in counters. No one told me the game ends at the 80 minutes mark.

You don't seem to get the point regarding Fellaini and Pogba injury. To make it clear enough, we don't have any other midfielder that can take the ball and carry it forward so we can build our attacks. Pogba is the only that has this ability, and Fellaini is just an option B for him. Herrera has failed miserably in this role and this leads to the number 10 dropping deep to him and all our system suddenly falls apart.

Talking is always easier than practical applying on the pitch. If you don't have the kind of midfielder that can carry the ball forward then good luck trying to build a coherent attacking unit.

 

[Vaibhav Kulkarni]

The players were not fresh at all, tired , fatigued. The desire or the attitude , Liverpool game didn't help us though it gave a good point at Anfield and we saw that during the Benfica game as well.

But one of bigger issue here is breaking the opponents down when they sit back. Huddersfield most of the game sat back and defended and tried for the counter and succeeded.

When at start of the season, we struggled to break teams down, we scored and early goal and then couldn't get more until the opponents starting move ahead trying to get a equaliser, then came our late goals.

The fact that Huddersfield got those two goals meant they had the liberty to sit back and wait for counter.

 

[shield]

What is worrying was that the manger was completly out of ideas and the only thing he could think of was the same old, "replace Mata" , "sub Martial/Rashford". How about tweaking the formation a bit, or trying out a youth player, someone the opposition is not used to seeing and who can bring something different.

All Mourinho seems to be able to think of is bring Rashford/Martial depending on which one is on the bench. All this talk about how Andreas Pereira might should not have gone out on loan and all that, but if he had been with us, I pretty sure he would have still been on the bench or ommited from the squad all together and we would still have Young and Lingard running around.


I just don't see us trying out anything new. We look worrying similar to last year, where we employed the same defensive strategy and excuses were made about the quality of the squad. But we finished 6th anyway, so, I don't know, but, maybe, instead of playing that way, if we had tried to develop a certain style I think we might have made some progress. I can still remember that awful match against Middlesbrough, where we made them look like Madrid and held on for dear life.

Next year things will look a lot better, or at least different. I am tired to see us still relying Young, Lingard, Herrera, Fellaini, Mata etc. I would love to see a fresh face and a new outlook.

Young is in his last year. Herrera is in his last year too, unless we renew and I don't think we will. Fellaini is in his last year and we have to decide whether we are interested in renewing his contract. Mata is in his last year. Also, depending on the season, even the manager position might be up for grabs.

Maybe this is just a bad spell but my gut feeling is that we will continue to be unimpressive for most of the season.

 

[Acole9]

After letting it simmer for a couple of days I've only just watched the full highlights on match of the day. Well done to Huddersfield, completely deserved. I would've been embarrassed to have nicked a draw from that. The majority of them were completely gutless and looked like complete mugs.

On a side note and it's something which has been bugging me all season (this is by no means sour grapes) with Huddersfield, what is it with them going over to their fans and doing that daft linking your arms and raising them to the crowd? They're not some minnow FA Cup side who have just knocked out a Premier League team, they're a Premier League side now they need to start acting like one, it just looks so small time. Obviously Wagner has adopted that from his time with Klopp at Dortmund, along with a few other traits. It's just such a shame for him to do that, he needs to show his own identity more and not mimic a manager who's not even all that.

 

[NK86]

It seems Fellaini never gets any credit now. As if playing him means we pump long balls to him.

He was a genuinely good midfielder this season. Very difficult to dispossess, strong in the tackle, carries the ball well, dangerous on set pieces, good at defending set pieces.

He's no Pogba but he was favoured over Herrera because he has shown himself to be better than him in a 2 with Matic.

I am not discrediting Fellaini. I am not a fan but I also agree he has his uses. He is not this very good midfield option that people claim he has been this season. He got us goals but it's not like he is a midfielder who can fill the void left by Pogba. He is not even in the same mould. He won't carry the ball or link our attack, something which people attribute our poor play to. So that leaves us with lumping it forward to him. I am sorry but if that's the fall back option to Pogba being injured or rested then we are in deep shite as Pogba cannot play every minute of all our matches.

All said and done, Mourinho should have known that we need a backup to Pogba and he chose it not being an important option to reinforce the squad with. Or at the least get the best of our remaining players. He seems unable to do so without resorting to our players lumping it forward to Lukaku or Fellaini. We aren't trying to bypass a high press that it should be the answer.

 

[Name Changed]

This match shows how poor our squad is. Pogba has to play, it's as simple as that. We cannot play without him.

Also we might be able to afford to lose Jones or Bailly, but not both. Smalling and Lindelof are mistakes waiting to happen.