[Meep]

European away games are not the best ones to judge form on, they are usually dull affairs and a 0-1 away win is a good result, one SAF would have been pleased with. If there are ever games on which only the result matters, these are the ones.

A good three points, puts us in pole position in the group, or "ours to lose" as they say. Good showing from the kids involved especially I thought Brandon Williams. Confirmed that Martial needs another two games to get match fit, that Mata's over the hill, Lingard is going backwards and Romero must be the best reserve goalkeeper in Europe.

Spot on! I really would like to see Lingard improve and make a mark in a game like he did some to two(!) years ago. He is fun to watch when he is in the zone. This is a sort of game where he should excel if he dont want to be offloaded. Romero is just wasting his career as a backup. Maybe backing up is what he good at.

 

[astracrazy]

European away games are not the best ones to judge form on, they are usually dull affairs and a 0-1 away win is a good result, one SAF would have been pleased with. If there are ever games on which only the result matters, these are the ones.

A good three points, puts us in pole position in the group, or "ours to lose" as they say. Good showing from the kids involved especially I thought Brandon Williams. Confirmed that Martial needs another two games to get match fit, that Mata's over the hill, Lingard is going backwards and Romero must be the best reserve goalkeeper in Europe.

Would he heck.

0-1 away in the Champions League maybe.

In the Europa League against some Serbian side who the vast majority have never heard of and they only sit 5th in there league? On top of that we played rubbish again, only managed 5 shots with 1 on target and the only reason we scored was from a penalty.

How standards have fallen.

 

[VeevaVee]

I love it me when we get 3 points for a draw, almost feels like cheating.

Liverpool game. Read his post again.

 

[VeevaVee]

Because being negative is cheap and contributes nothing. Its like you think the team we played last night is somehow our first team.

We just had a great game v liverpool with the actual first team squad. But instead you choose to complain thinking its somehow productive?

It was as good a team as we can muster given a few injuries, no? Other than perhaps Rashford not starting. It's not like it's a throw away match. This is our squad now.

If we don't play well, people will say it. It doesn't achieve anything not being realistic either.
We play like that all the time now. We game raised against Liverpool and they got credit for it.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Got our away win which a big plus, but yet again a very underwhelming performance going forward.

 

[André Dominguez]

Pretty much a boring match. Both teams deserved to loose, and our victory just masked our deficiencies on the build up.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Hello everyone! I'm from Serbia, I'm a Partisan fan. After Partizan my favorite club has long been Man united. Yesterday for me and many fans of M United in Serbia was the Festival of Football.

Partizan made us happy with the game while we were disappointed with the game of Man United. Partizan did not take a lot of real opportunities but we have to say that the referee damaged Partizan a lot! What scares me is playing Mancester. This is desperate. Clearly, the biggest problem is the poor choice of players who are brought to the club for the big money they don't deserve. Hopefully that will change.

I don't think you're alone in being shocked as an opposition fan at the state of United's football at the moment. Elsewhere good luck to you in qualifying, I hope you win you're next two games after the return OT fixture. You have a great atmosphere in your stadium and the 'What an excellent day for an exorcism' banner was fun too

 

[Member 105568]

Bad one again? It’s not the strongest squad but I don’t see how he gets such bad performances out of it nearly every game. He obviously can’t coach any kind of possession game.

 

[Untd55]

No shots in the second half against Partisan. How anyone can defend this is beyond me.

We were completely dominated by a team that is crap. Partisan looked worse than Championship teams, and we were completely dominated by them in the second half.

 

[bonothom]

Yeah, even if it wasn't a great performance it's a first away win since march. And with another winnable away match at Norwich hopefully we can get some momentum finally.

Yeah but does the last 6 months give you confidence that we'll go to Norwich and win? It doesn't for me. We haven't scored more than 1 goal in a game since the beginning of August. If Norwich score the best we can hope for is a draw.

 

[gerdm07]

Well, that was ugly. Some takes...

- Williams looks pretty good and should give Shaw serious competition. Yes, he is only 19, but I like competition and he, hopefully, will make Shaw better.

- Mata had a pretty good match, however, Soumah, the AM for Partizan, was much more effective. The main reason is he can dribble into space and cause problems for a defense. Maybe we should buy him this January. He is 28 and can fill a need until we get someone better. I'm pretty sure he would be more effective than Mata.

- I can't remember a match where the opposition received the ball in the middle of our half and had room to dribble at our defense so often. Very strange. I guess this is the result of Garner not positioning well and McT going forward too much.

- I'm glad Maguire didn't hurt himself when Soumah skinned him. The slow motion showed he could easily had wrenched his knee.

- Why didn't Rashford play CF when he came on? He was on the left so often. Why didn't James play on the left. I fear this means OGS means to play James on the right and Rashford on the left now that Martial is back. JAMES IS BEST ON THE LEFT.

- Sadiq is only 22. Maybe we should buy him as a project. Make a deal now before others start sniffing around.

- I really hate it when Martial plays with this attitude: "I am so much better than everyone on the pitch that I'm only going to play with 70% effort and still have a good match." When will he learn this hardly ever works?

 

[Maticmaker]

Would he heck

The result, I'm talking about not the performance.

The opposition doesn't matter you can only beat what's in front of you as SAF said on numerous occasions, he also admitted in one of his books that he really didn't start to make progress in the European competitions until he understood how to travel and play in awkward (especially East European) places in order to get a 'clean sheet'; winning, any sort of win, was a bonus.

 

[MisterLupus]

see the problem is, if we’ve been playing good, or at least okay, not many people would have complained about today’s match, but since we have been absolutely terrible, and to get dominated by Partizan (who are not even number one in their league) is unacceptable..

We parked the bus almost the whole second half ffs! We had one shot on target and it came from a PK, we can’t score more than one and no creativity, they could’ve at least equalized..

I am very happy with the win, I really want champions league football next season (which is highly unlikely), this is our best option.

I can’t wait till Ole gets sacked.. can it get worse than this?

people definitely losing their patience, and mainly because there is no improvement, we actually regressed. What’s the point of Ole? What does he offer? Made three good signings (one Mourinho wanted, and another was a good rb last season) and that’s it? Can I make some signings (two obvious ones) and get a job as a manager?

It’s not all Ole’s fault, but he himself is a big problem, I understand he loves the club, we all do, but that doesn’t mean that’s a good enough reason to leave him at a job he can’t do okay at, let alone good. We need to start seeing some improvements at least, I don’t want instant success, I just want some improvements at this point, that’s all.

Nobody in their right mind would look at that squad and expect fireworks - no matter who was in charge of it. In fact nobody in their right minds would look at our offensive lineup even with our best players fielded - and expect fireworks. You're setting the bar too high - and placing the blame where it doesn't belong. And there is progression by the way in several areas of our play, from possession, pressure and defense to both work rate and morale. But we don't have players who can create - nor score.

Statistically we create enough space and quality opportunities for us to be seventh in the league in terms of goals (and there's practically nothing separating us from fourth) - however reality is we don't have the players to reach those expected numbers. That blame is not with our coaches and the tactics deployed - and in fact most people in here called it once the transfer window slammed shut and we were stuck still having to rely on the scraps of last season's shenanigans (and we weren't great then either despite having Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku providing some extra edge).

So yeah a lot of fans are losing their patience - which is to be expected when results vary and the football is boring. I almost fell asleep watching last night's game too - but seriously... Your complaints are exaggerated - there's one area of play where it all breaks down and that's the final third and stats prove (and my fecking eyes agree) it's not even our tactics that's to blame - the opportunities created by our buildup warrants more goals than we're seeing that's undeniable - so when you paint it all black and place the entire blame on our coaching and management it's impossible to take you serious.

It proves to me you're fueled by emotions more so than rational thought - and that you lack a deeper understanding of this game.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

Nobody in their right mind would look at that squad and expect fireworks - no matter who was in charge of it. In fact nobody in their right minds would look at our offensive lineup even with our best players fielded - and expect fireworks. You're setting the bar too high - and placing the blame where it doesn't belong. And there is progression by the way in several areas of our play, from possession, pressure and defense to both work rate and morale. But we don't have players who can create - nor score.

Statistically we create enough space and quality opportunities for us to be seventh in the league in terms of goals (and there's practically nothing separating us from fourth) - however reality is we don't have the players to reach those expected numbers. That blame is not with our coaches and the tactics deployed - and in fact most people in here called it once the transfer window slammed shut and we were stuck still having to rely on the scraps of last season's shenanigans (and we weren't great then either despite having Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku providing some extra edge).

So yeah a lot of fans are losing their patience - which is to be expected when results vary and the football is boring. I almost fell asleep watching last night's game too - but seriously... Your complaints are exaggerated - there's one area of play where it all breaks down and that's the final third and stats prove (and my fecking eyes agree) it's not even our tactics that's to blame - the opportunities created by our buildup warrants more goals than we're seeing that's undeniable - so when you paint it all black and place the entire blame on our coaching and management it's impossible to take you serious.

It proves to me you're fueled by emotions more so than rational thought - and that you lack a deeper understanding of this game.

I don’t think many here are expecting fireworks, at least I am absolutely not expecting any, and I agree with you, the squad is not the best, but they’re much better than where we are at the moment. No in their right mind can think Aston villa, Bournemouth, Sheffield United, Burnley, and Crystal Palace has a better squad than us, yet they’re all ahead of us.


I’m typing this without any emotions, it would’ve been an emotional post if I said that, maybe 2-3 matches into the season, but it’s been on going since February.. again, I understand we’re not too far off top 4 (also we’re closer to relegation), but there are no signs of improvement to me. I would love to get embarrassed and eat my words, but I just don’t see it happening.. also we shouldn’t accept this below average shite, we’re part of the problem as well by allowing this.

 

[astracrazy]

The result, I'm talking about not the performance.

The opposition doesn't matter you can only beat what's in front of you as SAF said on numerous occasions, he also admitted in one of his books that he really didn't start to make progress in the European competitions until he understood how to travel and play in awkward (especially East European) places in order to get a 'clean sheet'; winning, any sort of win, was a bonus.

I get it but I doubt behind the scenes he would be happy with that in his era.

We should be beating this team more than 0-1. I get that overall this would be considered a good result (especially how things are), but this isn't our Europa League campaign thread. This is the match thread and as a match it's a seriously poor result and even worse performance.

This is Man Utd vs 5th in the Serbian league - but how things have changed I guess.

 

[Maticmaker]

This is the match thread and as a match it's a seriously poor result and even worse performance

I agree with you a poor performance overall, but with a couple of kids, and a win away from home, keeping a clean sheet, etc. it was not a poor result, anything but! And tbh I doubt the great man would have seen it that way either.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Another crazy as feck Europa League pitch.

 

[MisterLupus]

I don’t think many here are expecting fireworks, at least I am absolutely not expecting any, and I agree with you, the squad is not the best, but they’re much better than where we are at the moment. No in their right mind can think Aston villa, Bournemouth, Sheffield United, Burnley, and Crystal Palace has a better squad than us, yet they’re all ahead of us.


I’m typing this without any emotions, it would’ve been an emotional post if I said that, maybe 2-3 matches into the season, but it’s been on going since February.. again, I understand we’re not too far off top 4 (also we’re closer to relegation), but there are no signs of improvement to me. I would love to get embarrassed and eat my words, but I just don’t see it happening.. also we shouldn’t accept this below average shite, we’re part of the problem as well by allowing this.

Now this I can relate to - except the bold part. They're really not - I'm sorry to say. We were bad offensively last season too - and this season we're stuck with the players who rarely even made the cut back then having lost both Herrerra and Lukaku even who were among our biggest contributors.

You are doing the same mistake Ole did during the summer window - you're overrating our midfield and our offensive lineup. This is the level they're at - what we're currently seeing - and it's not good enough for a top side in fact most of it belongs to the bottom part of the league. Not even great prospects such as Rashford, James and McTominay would be first picks in a title-challenging United side - and besides them we're stuck with having to rely on the likes of Lingard, Mata and Fred? Plus some academy players?

We're in a weak position putting in a weak effort up front because we have a weak squad. I'm not sold on Ole either by the way - I believe him to be a bit gullible and too much of an idealist. Waiting for "the perfect candidates" last window and misplacing his trust in our current squad - rather than realizing how desperately lacking we in fact were (and still are) then making a few compromises and risking it - is probably what sabotaged this season (and possibly his career alongside it if we don't start picking up more points).

But that being said - I know we won't know what Ole is good for until we get two-three reinforcements to our midfield and attack - all class players - and in fact we won't know what any manager is good for until that happens.

He should maybe have done more to help our attacking lineup pull their heads out their arses - but I believe he's being overly kind on them because his own position is quite weak at present. If he loses the wardrobe he's fecked pretty much - so he needs to keep pampering them whether they deserve it or not until they either realize on their own that they're acting like a bunch of self-obsessed toddlers in that final third - or at least long enough for him to find someone better who'll replace them.

One thing is certain to me at least based on both what I'm seeing and what our statistics implies - that this is as good as it gets with our current squad. Our tactics and buildup warrants more than we're able to reap - so to place the blame towards our bench is unjustified.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

Now this I can relate to - except the bold part. They're really not - I'm sorry to say. We were bad offensively last season too - and this season we're stuck with the players who rarely even made the cut back then having lost both Herrerra and Lukaku even who were among our biggest contributors.

You are doing the same mistake Ole did during the summer window - you're overrating our midfield and our offensive lineup. This is the level they're at - what we're currently seeing - and it's not good enough for a top side in fact most of it belongs to the bottom part of the league. Not even great prospects such as Rashford, James and McTominay would be first picks in a title-challenging United side - and besides them we're stuck with having to rely on the likes of Lingard, Mata and Fred? Plus some academy players?

We're in a weak position putting in a weak effort up front because we have a weak squad. I'm not sold on Ole either by the way - I believe him to be a bit gullible and too much of an idealist. Waiting for "the perfect candidates" last window and misplacing his trust in our current squad - rather than realizing how desperately lacking we in fact were (and still are) then making a few compromises and risking it - is probably what sabotaged this season (and possibly his career alongside it if we don't start picking up more points).

But that being said - I know we won't know what Ole is good for until we get two-three reinforcements to our midfield and attack - all class players - and in fact we won't know what any manager is good for until that happens.

He should maybe have done more to help our attacking lineup pull their heads out their arses - but I believe he's being overly kind on them because his own position is quite weak at present. If he loses the wardrobe he's fecked pretty much - so he needs to keep pampering them whether they deserve it or not until they either realize on their own that they're acting like a bunch of self-obsessed toddlers in that final third - or at least long enough for him to find someone better who'll replace them.

One thing is certain to me at least based on both what I'm seeing and what our statistics implies - that this is as good as it gets with our current squad. Our tactics and buildup warrants more than we're able to reap - so to place the blame towards our bench is unjustified.

Fair enough, we have to agree to disagree. I have to say though, I don’t put all the blame on ole, it’s Ed, Ole, then the players in my opinion. Essentially I think we should be better than what we were now, Klopps Liverpool was as bad in my opinion, mind you I don’t expect anything more than top four from our squad (in my option they’re good enough for top 4), and Klopp still had them progress and play decent football.

In a nutshell, we have a clueless man in charge in Ed, bad manager (sad because I really wanted him to do good here, and was behind his appointment), and okay players. The combination of the 3 left us where we are now.

 

[MisterLupus]

Fair enough, we have to agree to disagree. I have to say though, I don’t put all the blame on ole, it’s Ed, Ole, then the players in my opinion. Essentially I think we should be better than what we were now, Klopps Liverpool was as bad in my opinion, mind you I don’t expect anything more than top four from our squad (in my option they’re good enough for top 4), and Klopp still had them progress and play decent football.

In a nutshell, we have a clueless man in charge in Ed, bad manager (sad because I really wanted him to do good here, and was behind his appointment), and okay players. The combination of the 3 left us where we are now.

Well time will tell. I think our main difference is that I believe you're overrating our players and by doing so placing too much of the responsibility on our coaches - that to me Ole still falls under the "unproven" category more so than the "bad" one due to the circumstances he's forced to navigate. We'll see how the season progresses - if we get reinforced with some quality up front and in midfield and the results still evade us then I'll agree something probably needs to change - equally so if they once more don't feel the need to reinforce despite how impotent we're looking - that too will be a red card as far as I'm concerned because I didn't even buy into their reasons for not reinforcing us last summer and by now that must be considered a massive blunder so...

Yeah... Time will tell. I never expected much beyond Europa League qualification this season anyways

 

[SAFMUTD]

Well time will tell. I think our main difference is that I believe you're overrating our players and by doing so placing too much of the responsibility on our coaches - that to me Ole still falls under the "unproven" category more so than the "bad" one due to the circumstances he's forced to navigate. We'll see how the season progresses - if we get reinforced with some quality up front and in midfield and the results still evade us then I'll agree something probably needs to change - equally so if they once more don't feel the need to reinforce despite how impotent we're looking - that too will be a red card as far as I'm concerned because I didn't even buy into their reasons for not reinforcing us last summer and by now that must be considered a massive blunder so...

Yeah... Time will tell. I never expected much beyond Europa League qualification this season anyways

Seriously people have to stop making excuses for Ole, unproven? he has managed 48 games in PL so far. 17 wins, 11 draws and 20 losses, he relegated Cardiff and has us in 14th position with a squad that at the very least should be top 8.

He's by no means "unproven" he has failed as a coach.

When people say things like "the circumstances he's forced to navigate" you'll think he's managing a newly promoted team or something.

 

[MisterLupus]

Seriously people have to stop making excuses for Ole, unproven? he has managed 48 games in PL so far. 17 wins, 11 draws and 20 losses, he relegated Cardiff and has us in 14th position with a squad that at the very least should be top 8.

He's by no means "unproven" he has failed as a coach.

When people say things like "the circumstances he's forced to navigate" you'll think he's managing a newly promoted team or something.

...or that he's managed two teams in crisis. Would you disagree with that? Is this a Manchester United squad fit to fight in the top you feel? Was Cardiff a sure bet to stay up that season? How did both these team look prior to him joining - and Cardiff after he left? Sorry mate I won't agree that he's had a fair shot at proving his worth yet - he hasn't. He's inherited a mess of a team here and Cardiff was even worse (plus he was less experienced himself as well).

 

[SAFMUTD]

...or that he's managed two teams in crisis. Would you disagree with that? Is this a Manchester United squad fit to fight in the top you feel? Was Cardiff a sure bet to stay up that season? How did both these team look prior to him joining - and Cardiff after he left? Sorry mate I won't agree that he's had a fair shot at proving his worth yet - he hasn't. He's inherited a mess of a team here and Cardiff was even worse (plus he was less experienced himself as well).

Yes he took two teams that were failing to their objectives, first Cardiff I agree they werent a sure bet to stay but they had a chance and they failed. Manchester United for hell sure should be fighting for top 6 at least, no one in their right mind will call being 14th a normal situation.

So whats a fair chance to Ole? take over a top team on their prime to see if he can make them win? all managers take over when the team is underachieving thats why the last manager was sacked.

Sorry but youre just making excuses to cover for Ole's clear failure.

 

[MisterLupus]

Yes he took two teams that were failing to their objectives, first Cardiff I agree they werent a sure bet to stay but they had a chance and they failed. Manchester United for hell sure should be fighting for top 6 at least, no one in their right mind will call being 14th a normal situation.

So whats a fair chance to Ole? take over a top team on their prime to see if he can make them win? all managers take over when the team is underachieving thats why the last manager was sacked.

Sorry but youre just making excuses to cover for Ole's clear failure.

Nah I haven't made any excuses for him - I relate to what I'm seeing and which direction our stats points. I haven't made shit up at all. I'm not even uncritical of Ole - in fact I believe he blew it during the transfer window by doing exactly what I feel you're doing at this very moment: Overrating the quality of our squad. I also feel he's playing Pogba wrong not taking full advantage of him. This is a top 6 squad - performing steadily and constantly at it's best and if it remains injury free - yes - but by no means a guaranteed one. Fred, Matic, Lingard, Mata... Would another Premier League club anywhere on the table consider these desirable? Heck even McTominay, James and Rashford - all of whom I'm excited about by the way (Pereira too when he's lit) - would be considered rotation options and future prospects with our rivals - not firmly established first team players the way we do - having to depend on them as our main contributors week in and week out. We are four players short of having a competitive starting eleven - one of these spots being filled by players I'm quite sure wouldn't even qualify as reserves for our top ten rivals (Lingard / Fred) - and these four spots make up for a majority of our midfield and attack. Plus - beyond that we're completely stripped of quality - having to rely on players who's either too young to be rated yet (I'm excited about Tuanzebe and Williams mind you) or who've proven for years now they're sub-standard whenever someone's either injured or being rested.

Nah I'm not making up excuses - it's just that I saw this exact scenario coming the moment that transfer window closed shut without us getting the reinforcements we needed. In fact most people did - very few bought into the excuses made as to why we didn't get some proper midfielders and an attacker in and even less shared Solskjaer's optimism in regards to the quality of this squad. We all feared we'd be here (didn't you?) - and lo and behold here we fecking are. I won't lament it if Solskjaer ends up getting the axe - because he pretty much put his head up for chops himself with his idealism and naivety by both refusing to compromise on his transfer policy and - doing what you guys are doing right now - overestimating these players.

I mean it was clear as day to see even. If you check out the stats from last season - our four best contributors up front was (in this order even) Pogba, Lukaku, Rashford and Martial - with the latter slacking some way behind. And even these weren't great contributors when comparing them to the top contributors of our closest rivals - in fact they were little more than "bang average" in terms of this league. Go even further and remove Lukaku entirely from that equation and push Pogba deeper - then what do you expect? Attacking dominance? Goals galore?

Solskjaer is responsible for our shortcomings - but not in the way you guys conclude. He's responsible because he went into this campaign with a squad everyone should have known (himself most of all) would prove impotent up front. Which is kind of sad because beyond that - we've improved across the field. Our defense is best in the league - a huge improvement from last season - and our buildup play / tactics warrants way more than we're getting. Work rate and possession - movement off the ball as well - all improved upon. Opportunities are there our tactics create more than enough for us to be safely within the top six like you're demanding - and stats prove it. In terms of expected goals we're seventh with places 4 to 12 all being within reasonable striking distance of one another - so we're on par with the second tier of the league in that regard. However it helps us feck all as long as our players simply aren't good enough to take advantage of those opportunities whenever our play opens up the opposition - so the only thing those stats say is that our tactical structures aren't our main concern - but rather it's the execution that's constantly failing us.

And I don't even need stats to tell me that because it's plain for anyone with eyes in their sockets to observe - every single match we've played this season. It's like our entire offensive lineup turns into toddlers the moment they approach that final third - loses their wits completely and starts presenting themselves as amateurs (in fact that's harsh on amateurs because I'm an amateur and even I'm baffled by their decisions). And that's psychological - it's not something coaching can retrain overnight (depending on the player's ego you may not be able to retrain it at all). That's down to the players themselves - whether or not they're professional enough and capable of adapting that winner's mentality.

As of now I'm not particularly optimistic they'll be able to change because much of what I'm seeing in terms of priorities is so bad it looks beyond repair - and rather than it being me making up excuses for Ole - I feel it's you guys who are making up excuses for our players by placing all the blame on the former rather than at them.

 

[bonothom]

Would he heck.

0-1 away in the Champions League maybe.

In the Europa League against some Serbian side who the vast majority have never heard of and they only sit 5th in there league? On top of that we played rubbish again, only managed 5 shots with 1 on target and the only reason we scored was from a penalty.

How standards have fallen.

Standards and expectations from a lot of fans as well.

 

[In Rainbows]

Garner looked raw, out of his depth and simply not ready. But you'll still have mugs in the match day thread getting annoyed him and other kids aren't playing or on the bench for the next game.

You could label that at every other player. Great evidence there for a player making his starting debut.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Nah I haven't made any excuses for him - I relate to what I'm seeing and which direction our stats points. I haven't made shit up at all. I'm not even uncritical of Ole - in fact I believe he blew it during the transfer window by doing exactly what I feel you're doing at this very moment: Overrating the quality of our squad. I also feel he's playing Pogba wrong not taking full advantage of him. This is a top 6 squad - performing steadily and constantly at it's best and if it remains injury free - yes - but by no means a guaranteed one. Fred, Matic, Lingard, Mata... Would another Premier League club anywhere on the table consider these desirable? Heck even McTominay, James and Rashford - all of whom I'm excited about by the way (Pereira too when he's lit) - would be considered rotation options and future prospects with our rivals - not firmly established first team players the way we do - having to depend on them as our main contributors week in and week out. We are four players short of having a competitive starting eleven - one of these spots being filled by players I'm quite sure wouldn't even qualify as reserves for our top ten rivals (Lingard / Fred) - and these four spots make up for a majority of our midfield and attack. Plus - beyond that we're completely stripped of quality - having to rely on players who's either too young to be rated yet (I'm excited about Tuanzebe and Williams mind you) or who've proven for years now they're sub-standard whenever someone's either injured or being rested.

Nah I'm not making up excuses - it's just that I saw this exact scenario coming the moment that transfer window closed shut without us getting the reinforcements we needed. In fact most people did - very few bought into the excuses made as to why we didn't get some proper midfielders and an attacker in and even less shared Solskjaer's optimism in regards to the quality of this squad. We all feared we'd be here (didn't you?) - and lo and behold here we fecking are. I won't lament it if Solskjaer ends up getting the axe - because he pretty much put his head up for chops himself with his idealism and naivety by both refusing to compromise on his transfer policy and - doing what you guys are doing right now - overestimating these players.

I mean it was clear as day to see even. If you check out the stats from last season - our four best contributors up front was (in this order even) Pogba, Lukaku, Rashford and Martial - with the latter slacking some way behind. And even these weren't great contributors when comparing them to the top contributors of our closest rivals - in fact they were little more than "bang average" in terms of this league. Go even further and remove Lukaku entirely from that equation and push Pogba deeper - then what do you expect? Attacking dominance? Goals galore?

Solskjaer is responsible for our shortcomings - but not in the way you guys conclude. He's responsible because he went into this campaign with a squad everyone should have known (himself most of all) would prove impotent up front. Which is kind of sad because beyond that - we've improved across the field. Our defense is best in the league - a huge improvement from last season - and our buildup play / tactics warrants way more than we're getting. Work rate and possession - movement off the ball as well - all improved upon. Opportunities are there our tactics create more than enough for us to be safely within the top six like you're demanding - and stats prove it. In terms of expected goals we're seventh with places 4 to 12 all being within reasonable striking distance of one another - so we're on par with the second tier of the league in that regard. However it helps us feck all as long as our players simply aren't good enough to take advantage of those opportunities whenever our play opens up the opposition - so the only thing those stats say is that our tactical structures aren't our main concern - but rather it's the execution that's constantly failing us.

And I don't even need stats to tell me that because it's plain for anyone with eyes in their sockets to observe - every single match we've played this season. It's like our entire offensive lineup turns into toddlers the moment they approach that final third - loses their wits completely and starts presenting themselves as amateurs (in fact that's harsh on amateurs because I'm an amateur and even I'm baffled by their decisions). And that's psychological - it's not something coaching can retrain overnight (depending on the player's ego you may not be able to retrain it at all). That's down to the players themselves - whether or not they're professional enough and capable of adapting that winner's mentality.

As of now I'm not particularly optimistic they'll be able to change because much of what I'm seeing in terms of priorities is so bad it looks beyond repair - and rather than it being me making up excuses for Ole - I feel it's you guys who are making up excuses for our players by placing all the blame on the former rather than at them.

I agree he did overrated the squad, when most of us think we are weaker today than one year ago in terms of player quality. But to say this team can only achieve top 6 at most if playing to their full pontential is over the top.

You are underraiting the team, we have a solid back 4 with a good GK. We have a middle table midfield and a top 8 attack. The truth is man to man we are better than any team from below the top 4 (Liverpool, City, Tottenham, Chelsea) and we are very close to the closest squads (Leicester and Arsenal) besides that, of course some team can have 2 or 3 players that would start for us but that doesnt mean they have better squads, I can warranty than any player from our back 4, plus De Gea, Rashford, Pogba, Martial would walk straight into the starting XI of any team below the top 6. Thats 8 players, so lets just not act like a miracle is needed for us to achieve top 6.

Again I dont think this squad can compete for titles, but for sure can compete for top 4. Top 4 is not nearly enough, but with Ole as coach is looks as it would be a great achievement.

I dont think theres a single manager in the world that can win the premier league with our current squad but for sure there are many that can get us to top 4 walking.

 

[MisterLupus]

I agree he did overrated the squad, when most of us think we are weaker today than one year ago in terms of player quality. But to say this team can only achieve top 6 at most if playing to their full pontential is over the top.

You are underraiting the team, we have a solid back 4 with a good GK. We have a middle table midfield and a top 8 attack. The truth is man to man we are better than any team from below the top 4 (Liverpool, City, Tottenham, Chelsea) and we are very close to the closest squads (Leicester and Arsenal) besides that, of course some team can have 2 or 3 players that would start for us but that doesnt mean they have better squads, I can warranty than any player from our back 4, plus De Gea, Rashford, Pogba, Martial would walk straight into the starting XI of any team below the top 6. Thats 8 players, so lets just not act like a miracle is needed for us to achieve top 6.

Again I dont think this squad can compete for titles, but for sure can compete for top 4. Top 4 is not nearly enough, but with Ole as coach is looks as it would be a great achievement.

I dont think theres a single manager in the world that can win the premier league with our current squad but for sure there are many that can get us to top 4 walking.

Well that's where we disagree. From what I've seen this season and the previous I really don't rate our midfield and attack that highly - far from it in fact - in terms of offensive awareness and goal scoring potential I rate our squad among the bottom feeders. And we are best in the league defensively so at least in that department our results match the potential of this squad (in fact we've even looked better than I hoped for).

Like I said to that other guy - time will tell. If our results don't pick up even after we get reinforced - you might just have a point and we may have to start pointing fingers at our tactics, our training and those responsible. Something tells me they will though - and until our potential signings this January have settled I am actually hoping you are at least in part right - and that this squad too in it's current carnation will be able to up their game and get some results.

I won't believe it until I see it - but I'll be more thrilled than anyone if they prove me wrong because we definitely need that

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Loudest crowd I've heard in memory.

What is it with Croatian, Serbian, Polish, and Turkish crowds? So loud and passionate.

 

[Hughes35]

A win away in Serbia is always a good result. The performance and attitude however was awful and cannot be defended.

If it was one poor performance with a 1-0 you can let it go, this is not a one off though. It is every game, and I think we will lose to Norwich.

I only took 3 positives from the game:

1. We won
2. Williams was excellent
3. Mctominay 1st half was good

The list of negatives is too long to type.

 

[oz insomniac]

From afar the problems are easy to recognise. There is a pretty good good back 4, similar both keepers. However, the midfield is mediocre at best, the attack is limited. Apart from Pogba, which player would get a guaranteed game at any team in the top 6. Maybe Rashford or Martial , but as much on reputation rather than performance.

Difficult to blame Ole, as he has not put this side together, the absolute Pelicans who provide excuses at every opportunity have a great deal of responsibility. How do Woodward and Judge maintain a straight face while picking up massive pay days. They have been the influencers on the club, until they are replaced with football knowledgable people, expect more of the same.

This is a team that lacks quality, and really has extended over rated hacks like Lingard to the detriment of the future of the club, insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Woody just keeps making decisions on matters he has no depth, he is an accountant and the owners are shopping centre proprietors , that's the last 7 years in a sentence.