[Kant-ona]

Sometimes I get the impression some users compare everything they see on the pitch with what they do on their playstation 4. The match yesterday was not as bad as you could think seeing the dozens of threads about "how sh** we are".

I think we are allowed to critize our generel european performance: One match to go and we could still go out.

But the match against PSV was not a desaster. The only thing missing was this crucial first goal really. Yesterday I had the feeling that we have at least an idea how we could score a goal. (Which was not always the case during October.)

 

[midnightmare]

Good thing is we will respond well and win against leicester and were gonna beat wolfsburg or cska will do us a favour. Stay positive people. A draw isnt the end of the world.

Yes, it's not the end of the world and we could/should turn it around and be through. Even a draw at Wolfsburg would see us through if CSKA could draw / win. That said, we really should have won this. Had enough chances and a better finisher (which I'll mention further down) would have seen us stroll to a win. Oh well, onwards and upwards...

We need a second reliable finisher. Martial is destined for greatness but he's still a teenager and can't be counted on the way, say, Barcelona can count on Messi or Suarez. On nights when it's just not going right for Martial we need a second striker who can finish so we can take the points on the back of an ugly 1-0 win.

That was supposed to be Memphis but he's gone tits up. Rooney is past it. And Lingard still has diapers on and may not be the real deal.

The tactics were an issue here I reckon. After the last game, LvG mentioned clearly that Memphis' best position is central as a striker. To then immediately move him wide where he's struggled was shocking. All just to accommodate Wayne "The Invisible Man" Rooney. If anything, I'd have started Young wide (if he was fit to start, of course) or played Martial wide with Mata starting centrally and Memphis coming on later from the bench to replace an ineffective central striker (Rooney). We have pace in the team. Between Memphis, Martial and Lingard, there's pace to burn, but they need to play in the right positions! I would not write Memphis off as a support / backup striker. He's performed fairly ok when played in that position. His future may hold his becoming a great winger - I hope it does - but at this moment, our need and his form mean he should be playing centrally a lot more.

Mata at 85 mins?? Why bother at all??

This was shocking. I couldn't get my head around why Fellaini came on when he did. Ideally, Mata playing centrally would add the creative spark and also allow all the other attackers to push further forward. Adding Fellaini actually disrupted the formation (something I feel contributed to the falling away in the second half). I've never changed my mind on him and never will. He had his utility last season and can add a "physical presence" in the box in the late stages of games, but he's just not "a United quality player". His control is shockingly poor and he can't be a central midfielder. To bring him on as central midfielder was bonkers. It's also what led to Rooney then playing central midfield at times as he dropped deep. He's in p*ss-poor form as it is. To have him then in a part of a pitch where he causes us the most damage just made things worse.

All said and done, if you look at causality, I'd say that Rooney seems to be key. When he is out (ill or injured) we just seem to play better. When he's back, everyone seems sluggish. I'm not going to point the finger of blame at him for this game. But the fact is that our formation and tactics are affected massively by LvG's insanely stubborn insistence on shoe-horning him into the team whenever he's available and his refusal to sub him off regardless of his lack of contribution.

 

[dsch]

Having calmed down a bit, I now think the performance was bad but not disastrous. We had good periods and good chances in the first half (and sporadically early in the second half). If we took any of our three or four very presentable chances, this would have gone down as a gritty win while not playing well. What made the last half hour so frustrating was the utter lack of energy and desire in a team that looked tired.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Thought we were okay tonight. Rooney poor again and martial spurned a decent chance or two and wasn't really looking like a 9,more like a wide player. Frustrating when one or two decent balls were put into good areas and nobody was there. As an aside, rojo can really cross a ball.

Depay faded pretty quick but had a few decent moments. Really will need to be nurtured along.

As rooney said in interview, all we were missing was a goal. Losing schweinsteiger was a huge blow but we need to manage his game time at some point, and we should really have had enough to get over the line. Still badly need a 9 and realistically need a 10 if we ever want to go through the middle.

This is the big problem I have that we have two CM's that their playing time needs to be managed. If we were only playing one DM then we might get away with it, but he is playing two. Losing Carrick has created a problem. BFS is now playing more than ideal and when he is taken off we lose the midfield completely. Not having Michael and Ander available last night left us with few options, as for some reason he doesn't trust Pereira.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I kind of feel more annoyed by these performances than with Moyes'. With Moyes, it was clear he was just out of his depth and didn't have the tactical noose or experience to manage a team like ours but I thought LVG would be different. He is just too damn stubborn.

 

[Parma Dewol]

I haven't seen any highlights yet but the atmosphere in the stadium last night was really strange. The malaise was almost contagious - the players' lack of urgency was being channelled through the crowd and I've never seen Old Trafford so quiet on a Champions League night.

I can't really complain - I was there, and I wasn't doing much singing, but it's difficult when so little is happening on the pitch. It was almost like everyone in the stadium (apart from the PSV fans, who were boisterous throughout) was waiting for something.

Drab performance aside, the highlight of the evening was the George Best tribute in the 7th minute:

 

[IwatUwat]

I've been a staunch LVG supporter since the beginning, but I think I'll go neutral now.

Despite getting youth through, stabilizing us, getting back CL, rebuilding the squad, and being second in the PL, we have obvious deficiencies that keep us from being a top that which Van Gaal doesn't look like he can correct.

He cannot adapt to the opposition, he cannot inspire any passion or desire in this team, especially when they are down, he cannot get the best out of his attacking players, he has been getting his substitutions wrong regularly, and he is too stubborn with a philosophy that doesn't work at all when we need it.

These dire succession of draws are worse than losses because they are not being taken as seriously. We need goals, and LVG can't seem to get them.

Fair few positives there though to be fair to him. But the boring football is getting tiring now. Think someone told him if you dont concede you cant lose and he's really going for that approach.

 

[Redo91]

I got up at 4:30 am yesterday morning to head over to watch that drivel!

 

[sdb4884]

Odds are we'd probably get slaughtered in the next round of Champions League anyway, especially if we finish 2nd with the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid & Bayern all a possibility.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Odds are we'd probably get slaughtered in the next round of Champions League anyway, especially if we finish 2nd with the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid & Bayern all a possibility.

If we won the group knowing our bloody luck we would get PSG.

 

[groovyalbert]

Odds are we'd probably get slaughtered in the next round of Champions League anyway, especially if we finish 2nd with the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid & Bayern all a possibility.

I doubt we'll finish second - it'll either be top or out becuase I can't see CSKA getting anything at PSV. Last night was really poor. I think PSV's game plan to stifle and grab a point was played perfectly. It would have been interesting to see how the game would have panned out had the Wolfsburg-CSKA match not been played before this one. I think that both teams knowing the result effected the way they played - PSV knowing that a point was enough and Utd never really pouring forward.

 

[SqueakyWeasel]

Thank god there's no U19s thread for this fixture!

 

[Cassidy]

Thank god there's no U19s thread for this fixture!

There was

 

[SqueakyWeasel]

There was

ooops! Bet that was upbeat then

 

[Rozay]

PSV won't beat CSKA, although the press don't seem to have contemplated this as a possibility. I think we'll scrape through, but will need to get a lot better. We have desperately missed Luke Shaw this season. The full back threat has been non-existent since his injury.

 

[Todd]

Can't believe I recorded this match, avoided hearing the score for the rest of the day and then skipped going to the gym so that I could waste 90min watching yet another scoreless draw.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Can't believe I recorded this match, avoided hearing the score for the rest of the day and then skipped going to the gym so that I could waste 90min watching yet another scoreless draw.

Whenever I record a match with the view to watch it later without knowing the score, I always text someone (usually my brother) and ask for a simple yes or no answer to the question "is it worth me watching the ful 90 minutes of this game"

Saved me valuable hours of my life already this season.

 

[Arytonblue]

Despite all the hyperbole and drama on here last night I think it's worth mentioning how this game was eerily similar to the home game against CSKA, only difference being we snatched a late goal in what was a pretty putrid performance, with the crowd even more restless and hostile that game than last night. And yet there was nowhere near the amount of outrage over that game, the result clearly came first for most on here, which makes me wonder whether the majority of the Caf are truly more upset over the result instead of our terrible style of play. There should be a happy medium between the two, but I get the feeling that a scrappy 2-1 win at the weekend with no marked change in our performance will again appease the majority of fans, kind of flying in the face of all this soul searching 'I remember when I was a wee lad watching Fergie's fledglings swashbuckling style' claptrap. If fans are truly starting to turn on LVG then a marginal change in results really shouldn't change the overall narrative that his style is a serious detriment to our attack and quality of football. Should the team completely turn it around and put Leicester to the sword, like we did to Everton, then of course we can take some hope from that, but I have serious doubts that will happen.

 

[Moriarty]

And yet there was nowhere near the amount of outrage over that game, the result clearly came first for most on here, which makes me wonder whether the majority of the Caf are truly more upset over the result instead of our terrible style of play. .

For me, it's the latter. It wasn't football we were playing, that's for sure, it was more like chess. 11 cabbages playing sideways passes with no penetration whatsoever. We kept on repeating teh same old crap for 90 minutes and never once varied the tempo. What the feck does Van Gaal do for 90 minutes bar writing on his clipboard? Get up off your arse and change things; make things happen for heaven's sake. Giggs sits there like he's carved out of stone too. Our captain looks unfit and uninterested. We've got leaks to the press, and former players are watching and sniping at us. It doesn't make for a happy ship and it shows on the pitch.

We're second in the league and we might still qualify for the next round of the European Cup but there can't be many, except those who wear red-tinted glasses all the time, that think we can win either playing in this manner and without scoring goals.

 

[Spock]

To me it's clear that the problem is poor finishing. Had Lingard taken his glorious chance properly and we escaped with a 1-0 win the post-match commentary would be very different.

We're boring to watch. We create fewer chances than we should. But we had enough chances last night to have at least deserved an ugly 1-0 win.

What's going on?

Martial is being double-marked.
Memphis has badly underperformed, at least relative to expectations.
Lingard is still growing into the job.
Rooney's legs are shot and can no longer compete effectively at this level.

We need to complete the squad rebuild with a second scorer, one who can work with Martial to create chances for him and who can finish on chances created by him.

 

[Lordyfw]

Can someone tell me why everyone thinks PSV will beat CSKA?
As a Dutchmen I hope they do, but I'm not as sure as some on here seem to be. CSKA is a tough side and PSV is incredibly inconsistent. They do play at home though, so that's a pro for them, but still...

 

[Question234]

To me it's clear that the problem is poor finishing. Had Lingard taken his glorious chance properly and we escaped with a 1-0 win the post-match commentary would be very different.

We're boring to watch. We create fewer chances than we should. But we had enough chances last night to have at least deserved an ugly 1-0 win.

What's going on?

Martial is being double-marked.
Memphis has badly underperformed, at least relative to expectations.
Lingard is still growing into the job.
Rooney's legs are shot and can no longer compete effectively at this level.

We need to complete the squad rebuild with a second scorer, one who can work with Martial to create chances for him and who can finish on chances created by him.

Finally someone that actually fecking gets it.

This is what happens when a team starts the season without a recognised goal scorer. Had any of the chances we created before half time been taken we are having a completely different conversation but no. Everyone wants to lose their shite because we have been frustrating to watch, which is true. Just because we are frustrating doesn't mean the squad is poor and LVG signings are whack which has been the narrative set after last night.

 

[Man of Steel]

Why not her? She ain't doing much.

I heard that the Utd players want a new 'unused' one...

After Terry has been there, you can see their points.

 

[Hostekule]

Can someone tell me why everyone thinks PSV will beat CSKA?
As a Dutchmen I hope they do, but I'm not as sure as some on here seem to be. CSKA is a tough side and PSV is incredibly inconsistent. They do play at home though, so that's a pro for them, but still...

CSKA has nothing to play for? PSV won their other two home games.

 

[Crossie]

CSKA has nothing to play for? PSV won their other two home games.

CSKA can still make it into the Europa League.

 

[Hostekule]

CSKA can still make it into the Europa League.

You're right. Think it will be a nerve racking then.

 

[Crossie]

You're right. Think it will be a nerve racking then.

For all teams of the group actually:
Wolfsburg and United can make everything from top of the group to 3rd.
PSV can make literally everything from top* of the group to last.
CSKA can make 3rd or last.

* if Wolfsburg-United is a draw and PSV beats CSKA with a margin of 3 goals

 

[Sandikan]

With all due respect, that's a load of codswallop. To say that second half wasn't one of (if not the) worst performance of the season is nonsensical.

We were appalling.

Calm your little self down. The guy, straight after the game, said it was THE worst game.

It wasn't, it was kneejerk.

We've had many games, and indeed halves worse, but the most recent always sticks out to the knee jerkers.

Get over it, cheer up mate. Onto the next.

 

[Jazz]

What worries me is that it seems under LVG, our team is not allowed to lose or draw games. Every single time it happens, the journalists write a million negative stories - every bloody time. We shouldn't forget this is sports - you cannot always win, you cannot always play well - that is impossible. So is everyone going to have a meltdown all the time when this happens?
Of course LVG needs to sort out the lack of goals - he knows that. His job will be on the line if he can't do it. But this constant griping - especially from the press - is bizarre. City have lost their last two games - no negative article about them. We played shit and had no plan under Moyes - everybody shut up, media still backed him, fans gave him standing ovation at OT etc etc. It's weird.
I'm disappointed as all hell about last night, but maybe we need to be a little more balanced and not expect too much too soon. Just a thought.

 

[POF]

Result was very disappointing, in particular as it was the best chance of securing qualification from the group. The performance and absolute collapse in the second half was a major worry. The team seemed absolutely clueless as to how to attempt to break PSV down.

Following the transfer activity in the summer, results like this have to be expected. Increasing the attacking quality of the team was where I thought the number one priority should have been. The solution, decrease the attacking options and play a more defensive system? United are a very poor attacking side just now. Missing chances is a part of football. Missing 3 chances and creating no more isn't unlucky.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

And yet there was nowhere near the amount of outrage over that game, the result clearly came first for most on here, which makes me wonder whether the majority of the Caf are truly more upset over the result instead of our terrible style of play.

It's not either or, though, is it?

Naturally, you moan less loudly with three points in the bag, that's the nature of it. It doesn't say very much about how people truly feel about the style, though. Just because ten new threads about the dreadfulness of the football won't be created after a win doesn't mean people are pleased with it, or that they don't actually care as long we win.

"I can just about stand it as long as we're winning" seems to be how many feel at the moment. And so, obviously, they come out in force whenever we don't win. That isn't fickleness - it's a perfectly logical pattern, given the basic premise: They actually hate the way we play football more often than not, regardless of the results, but like all football fans they're placated by three points.

 

[Jazz]

Result was very disappointing, in particular as it was the best chance of securing qualification from the group. The performance and absolute collapse in the second half was a major worry. The team seemed absolutely clueless as to how to attempt to break PSV down.

Following the transfer activity in the summer, results like this have to be expected. Increasing the attacking quality of the team was where I thought the number one priority should have been. The solution, decrease the attacking options and play a more defensive system? United are a very poor attacking side just now. Missing chances is a part of football. Missing 3 chances and creating no more isn't unlucky.

Agreed. LVG needs to make this his top priority right now and sort it. Get something going at least for the rest of the year until January when we can hopefully sort this out during the transfer window (if anyone good is available that is).

 

[Arytonblue]

What worries me is that it seems under LVG, our team is not allowed to lose or draw games. Every single time it happens, the journalists write a million negative stories - every bloody time. We shouldn't forget this is sports - you cannot always win, you cannot always play well - that is impossible. So is everyone going to have a meltdown all the time when this happens?
Of course LVG needs to sort out the lack of goals - he knows that. His job will be on the line if he can't do it. But this constant griping - especially from the press - is bizarre. City have lost their last two games - no negative article about them. We played shit and had no plan under Moyes - everybody shut up, media still backed him, fans gave him standing ovation at OT etc etc. It's weird.
I'm disappointed as all hell about last night, but maybe we need to be a little more balanced and not expect too much too soon. Just a thought.

This I would agree with it greatly, every point lost or poor performance is a COMPLETE DISASTER. Part of this can be attributed to some journalist/pundits and 'experts' quite blatantly enjoying United no longer being dominant and are simply trying to rub it in, which is annoying but hey, whatever. Another aspect to it seems to be that United, in particular LVG, are being held to higher standard than others. City, for all the quality they have, have been utterly average this season, but get little attention, Arsenal get a pass for having a hilariously overstated 'horrendous injury crisis', Chelsea/Mourinho are just 'box office' and such great banter, Liverpool have the new hipster coach who makes everybody laugh and are clearly on their way back to the top, with little critique since his arrival. But for United every article/piece makes sure to mention any of the following:
1) Total transfer spend under LVG
2) Any and all poor scoring streaks for our attackers
3) Pointless comparisons to Fergies teams
4) Some mention of our 'swashbuckling style' under Fergie
5) Mentioning of former transfer targets that weren't landed
6) Reference to former players who are doing well elsewhere
7) Usually something along the lines of 'a fall from grace'
8) Unflattering image of Van Gaal plastered on the top

All of this while failing to mention our own injury problems this and last season with a squad made up of many new players in their first season without any actual discussion of our tactical issues. And you're absolutely bang on with Moyes, he barely received a fraction of the criticism Van Gaal is getting, was completely protected from day one with the squad of title winners and Fergie blamed for our failings, and that was taking us from 1st to 7th ffs. I rarely hear an acknowledgment or mention of Van Gaal having to take over after that pathetic side show of a season to get us back to a respectable, but not ideal, level.

I don't usually give two shíts about football writing or articles, a lot of it is usually hyperbolic and simplified rubbish, but an entire narrative surrounding United and LVG this season has been built that just helps amplify the justified frustrations and complaints of United fans to a ridiculous degree where any proper analysis or critique of the team is lost in all the ranting/OTT nonsense, last night being a case in point.

 

[Jazz]

This I would agree with it greatly, every point lost or poor performance is a COMPLETE DISASTER. Part of this can be attributed to some journalist/pundits and 'experts' quite blatantly enjoying United no longer being dominant and are simply trying to rub it in, which is annoying but hey, whatever. Another aspect to it seems to be that United, in particular LVG, are being held to higher standard than others. City, for all the quality they have, have been utterly average this season, but get little attention, Arsenal get a pass for having a hilariously overstated 'horrendous injury crisis', Chelsea/Mourinho are just 'box office' and such great banter, Liverpool have the new hipster coach who makes everybody laugh and are clearly on their way back to the top, with little critique since his arrival. But for United every article/piece makes sure to mention any of the following:
1) Total transfer spend under LVG
2) Any and all poor scoring streaks for our attackers
3) Pointless comparisons to Fergies teams
4) Some mention of our 'swashbuckling style' under Fergie
5) Mentioning of former transfer targets that weren't landed
6) Reference to former players who are doing well elsewhere
7) Usually something along the lines of 'a fall from grace'
8) Unflattering image of Van Gaal plastered on the top

All of this while failing to mention our own injury problems this and last season with a squad made up of many new players in their first season without any actual discussion of our tactical issues. And you're absolutely bang on with Moyes, he barely received a fraction of the criticism Van Gaal is getting, was completely protected from day one with the squad of title winners and Fergie blamed for our failings, and that was taking us from 1st to 7th ffs. I rarely hear an acknowledgment or mention of Van Gaal having to take over after that pathetic side show of a season to get us back to a respectable, but not ideal, level.

I don't usually give two shíts about football writing or articles, a lot of it is usually hyperbolic and simplified rubbish, but an entire narrative surrounding United and LVG this season has been built that just helps amplify the justified frustrations and complaints of United fans to a ridiculous degree where any proper analysis or critique of the team is lost in all the ranting/OTT nonsense, last night being a case in point.

You just watch if we lose to Leicester. Will be carnage