[bsCallout]

I can only fo on the radio commentary but seemingly the same old questions keep resurfacing: a) What the hell does Ole say just before the team comes out. Game after game he says we started to slowly... and then we start too slowly. b) When is the management/players going to realise we aren't good enough to play it out from the back (the radio put their first goal down to this as part of Deano's mistake

Sounded as if Pogba had a good game but still tried to do too much and got us into trouble at times, while one again (again only from radio) Bruno was on form (when he isn't we aren't).

Looking to find somewhere to watch at least the goals; I wonder if they'll be on Football Focus on Saturday

We actually played it out from the back to create two amazing chances, maybe three inc a goal. We can do it, we just dont choose our moments well i.e. the start of the game when the other team is pressing like crazy with all their energy.

 

[RumHam]

I thought we were poor tbh.

Luckily for some reason Sheffield United thought it was clever to play a high line for the whole game and then bring on Phil Jagielka 10 minutes in.

Pogba summed us up. The odd moment of undeniable brilliance scattered into 90 minutes of general, occasionally absurdly bad rubbish. No other team would concede that first goal and then in the same game play the bit of football that led to our third...and I don't even know if that's a compliment or a critcism.

Also picking Matic next to Pogba against a pressing side should be a sackable offence at this point. If you have to play Pogba you can't play Matic. I don't get why it's even a consideration at this point.

I don't know but i bet you're someone that claims we don't have a style of play or identity. Playing it out from the back is very much a distinct style of play that we try and purposefully do to break the press and spring against the opposition that has pushed up, it didn't work for the opener because of a mistake but look how it did work for the second goal.

I'm not a massive fan of it to be honest especially in the opening minutes when the oppo are full of energy (and make no mistake SHU were well up for this and came out of the traps fast) but it is a clear tactic/style that we use.

We won, we played well, looked fast and sharp with some really really good attacking football but some shaky moments at the back particularly at either end of match. We've finally got MMM up-top again for one of the few times this season and i think they'll start against Leeds too so hopefully re-create the form we saw from them last season.

This week's results leaves us well in contention with a decent run of games to come leading up to the Liverpool game. This season is going to be a rollercoaster, lets at least try to enjoy it.

 

[bsCallout]

I thought Lindelof played well, too. He made some useful interceptions, held up their attackers to give the defence time to re-group and the ball he put through for Rashford's first goal would have sent people into ecstatic celbrations, had Pogba or Bruno made it. He may commit the crime of not being Nemanja Vidic, but I've seen a lot worse play for United and get better comments than Victor , who has an occasional bad game, but is generally calm and organised. Guy's a decent player IMO.

He's going under the radar as one of our most consistent players now. Hopefully that ball over the top has given him more confidence to find that pass early, more often.

 

[bsCallout]

He just about completely surrendered he final third of the pitch, allowing Sheffield Utd to push forward. I don’t have issues with resting players, but taking off attackers and not replacing their positions was just wrong. If it were a calculated risk, then it very nearly backfired on him, I viewed it as very much being over cautious against the worst team in the league, whom we were controlling until he subbed our attacking threat off.

I thought we were poor tbh.

Luckily for some reason Sheffield United thought it was clever to play a high line for the whole game and then bring on Phil Jagielka 10 minutes in.

Pogba summed us up. The odd moment of undeniable brilliance scattered into 90 minutes of general, occasionally absurdly bad rubbish. No other team would concede that first goal and then in the same game play the bit of football that led to our third...and I don't even know if that's a compliment or a critcism.

Also picking Matic next to Pogba against a pressing side should be a sackable offence at this point. If you have to play Pogba you can't play Matic. I don't get why it's even a consideration at this point.

Ooo edgy

 

[Maticmaker]

A good result in the end, but we were not 'warmed up' enough at the start and had 'warmed down' with still 8-10 minutes to go. In between some excellent play and three cracking goals.
Despite the debacle at the start still think Henderson is the one to take over from DeGea. Unlike David , Dean will come off his line and does shout to his defenders when its his ball.

Was Pogba attempting to put himself in the shop window? Overall he had a good game and some of his passing, especially for Tony Martial's goal was superb; but there were one or two moments when he lost the ball in dangerous areas by attempting to turn, he somehow 'ar**' opponents away, he simply backs into them sticking his backside out, presumably to shield the ball and a second opponent comes in and nicks it whilst Paul's off balance, happened three times last night and on each occasion set them off on an attack.

We are climbing the table need to see off Leeds at OT to really signal intent!

 

[Berbasbullet]

I absolutely loved our equaliser, the kind of goal Liverpool eat up all the time, brilliant ball and run, it’s not easy to do that, made it look it though!

I also think that we were good at controlling the game par the end of course.

But it’s all relative as Sheffield are rubbish and we only won by a single goal.

 

[justsomebloke]

I actually hope it's Pogba, Fred and Bruno. With Leeds' naive approach to defending and gung ho attitude, he could/should have a field day. Pogba and Bruno shuold thrive against opponents like Leeds.

Of course it can backfire, but a lot of the criticism against Ole is his "defensive" approach playing two holding midfielders against supposedly inferior opponents.

I've got a good feeling about the Leeds game, I must say. I think we can play the kind of game they'll give us better than they can.

 

[justsomebloke]

But it’s all relative as Sheffield are rubbish and we only won by a single goal.

Well, I'm not too worried about that. They've lost 8 games this season by a single goal, including to Liverpool, City and Leicester. I'm considerably more concerned by the fact they scored two, which they haven't managed against anyone else. Though granted, they were both fairly lucky ones, so maybe we shouldn't read too much into that.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I've got a good feeling about the Leeds game, I must say. I think we can play the kind of game they'll give us better than they can.

Totally agree. If we just keep doing what we do on the counter, and absorb their pressure sufficiently, Leeds will struggle big time.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Well, I'm not too worried about that. They've lost 8 games this season by a single goal, including to Liverpool, City and Leicester. I'm considerably more concerned by the fact they scored two, which they haven't managed against anyone else. Though granted, they were both fairly lucky ones, so maybe we shouldn't read too much into that.

I wouldn’t look to much into that. Both of their goals were basically flukes. I was more concerned at how easily they cut through our £110m centre back pair & got that one on one against Henderson at 3-2. If that goes in this place would be on fire right now. Henderson had a bad night, but that save was big.

 

[Falcow]

What annoyed me most last night was the effort or lack thereof that we put into scoring a fourth......its a half assed, sloppy in possession approach which drives me nuts, we need to play as if we are searching for an equaliser until the game is beyond reach.

We should have been home and hosed with half an hour to spare, instead it was backs to the wall for the last 5 minutes and required that save from Henderson in the dying moments.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Well, I'm not too worried about that. They've lost 8 games this season by a single goal, including to Liverpool, City and Leicester. I'm considerably more concerned by the fact they scored two, which they haven't managed against anyone else. Though granted, they were both fairly lucky ones, so maybe we shouldn't read too much into that.

Agreed with all that, it’s concerning that we constantly concede these stupid, preventable, comical goals, plus also set pieces.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

What annoyed me most last night was the effort or lack thereof that we put into scoring a fourth......its a half assed, sloppy in possession approach which drives me nuts, we need to play as if we are searching for an equaliser until the game is beyond reach.

We should have been home and hosed with half an hour to spare, instead it was backs to the wall for the last 5 minutes and required that save from Henderson in the dying moments.

Yeah I think if we had scored a fourth it would have ended up five or six comfortably. It’s something United have been guilty of for a while including the 3-3 last year at Bramall Lane funnily enough.

When you’re on top stay on top - kill the game!

 

[Bilbo]

General reflection: I think it's really hard to figure out just where we are right now. When you watch them play, there are recurring things that just doesn't look good. The dawdling around with the ball and the insistence on playing through the press without being very good at it. The positional lapses from the full backs. The swings in intensity, particularly in terms of movement when in possession. The lack of concentration at the start of games. The persistent conceding of the first goal.

But then again, we're now undefeated in six (not sure if anyone else has managed a streak like that this season, I doubt it), and have scored 3 goals in 3 straight away games. There's a mismatch between what the games make you feel, and the results. So, what gives? Are some of the things that don't look good in fact unavoidable side-effects from things that are required in order to enable us to be so proficient? Are things being looked at in the wrong way?

For instance, does it actually matter if we look offensively dominant only in limited spells, as long as we score three goals? And is the fact that we're able to score those goals in some way connected to doing things in a way that means we'll only look dominant in short spells? Maybe it's not such a bad idea after all to try to play through the press patiently - hold on to the ball and just wait for the good opportunities?

Maybe people more versed in tactics and patterns can tell better than I can. But the experts and pundits sound just as lost as I am. You hear mostly critical comments underway, but then we score three wonderful goals. And given how often and regularly that happens, it has to somehow be connected with style, shape and tactics, not just with the skills of individual players.

I would say the bolded part sums up what I believe we are going through as a team right now. I've written on here many times how important the peak lifespan of a team is and the reason so few clubs are able to dominate for prolonged periods of time. Not even dominate necessarily - but to perform at or near the peak of what they are can potentially do.

United are still working their way towards that peak of our cycle. We know that we have imperfections within our squad and our first team at the moment but Ole has done a very good job in building up those layers. We are seeing a team that are not yet able to play strong football consistently, but they are growing in belief because they are managing to do that in spells, and crucially they are finding ways to win football matches in spite of our flaws.

We have been a situation in this league where we've had two teams performing at the peak of their cycle in recent seasons. We could not hope to compete with that. IMO the plan under Ole, right from day 1, was always to build a team that were best placed to profit when City & Liverpool moved out of their peak cycle, and they undoubtedly will do that - City perhaps already are though we need more evidence before we can put it beyond a poor run of form by their standards.

People have scoffed when I've said that before, because they assumed that I meant that those two teams would significantly decline. That was never the case, but they undoubtedly will struggle to maintain this level.

For me, United are the best placed team to take advantage of that. This team has massive potential and the age profile is nearly perfect, and I think that Ole isn't perfect but I believe he knows exactly what this squad needs in order to keep improving.

(I realise that your post was more of a tactical question and I've gone off on a tangent, but I'd end up writing a short story so I'll stop now, but in short I would say that for me the playing well in spurts is not a concern at all, but the slow starts to matches are a problem to be solved)

 

[Tom Cato]

What annoyed me most last night was the effort or lack thereof that we put into scoring a fourth......its a half assed, sloppy in possession approach which drives me nuts, we need to play as if we are searching for an equaliser until the game is beyond reach.

We should have been home and hosed with half an hour to spare, instead it was backs to the wall for the last 5 minutes and required that save from Henderson in the dying moments.

What? We had several chances that should have been scored on after the 3-1

 

[Red Shorts]

We must be the most interesting team to watch in the premier league from a neutral perspective?

My god is it nerve-wracking to be a United fan, but they do show they can fight when we are down and that is great character.

I wish we would show this fight from the start rather than have to fight at a disadvantage.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Way closer that should have been but 3 points anyway. Henderson is not the answer.

He made a sloppy start to the game, I understand but he made some crucial saves, especially the one right in the end was spectacular.

 

[The Urban Goose]

More like 2001-02

Now there's a Pogba debate that hasn't been had... Pogba or Véron?
FFS, kill me now.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Now there's a Pogba debate that hasn't been had... Pogba or Véron?
FFS, kill me now.

Oh no.

I was thinking more of : Brown/Neville- Blanc CB partnership or Lindelof-Maguire.

 

[OleTheGreat]

What the heck was Donny doing when he came on?! Absolutely atrocious.

True. I think he missed a crucial pass to Rashford that was destined to be a goal and his hattrick. I'm sure Rashford is pretty pissed off with DVDB for that. Bruno would've placed the pass perfectly. I'm thinking so would've anybody in that team. That was atrocious indeed.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Henderson has a shaky game in his 2nd league start for us and people want to bin him. Jesus wept. De Gea was shaky for his first 12 months for us.

True. I thought Henderson did everything right since his mistake. That save in the end was brilliant.

 

[justsomebloke]

I would say the bolded part sums up what I believe we are going through as a team right now.

Except you haven't bolded anything.

Other than that, I think what you write is pretty much spot-on.

 

[Bilbo]

I don't know but i bet you're someone that claims we don't have a style of play or identity. Playing it out from the back is very much a distinct style of play that we try and purposefully do to break the press and spring against the opposition that has pushed up, it didn't work for the opener because of a mistake but look how it did work for the second goal.

I'm not a massive fan of it to be honest especially in the opening minutes when the oppo are full of energy (and make no mistake SHU were well up for this and came out of the traps fast) but it is a clear tactic/style that we use.

We won, we played well, looked fast and sharp with some really really good attacking football but some shaky moments at the back particularly at either end of match. We've finally got MMM up-top again for one of the few times this season and i think they'll start against Leeds too so hopefully re-create the form we saw from them last season.

This week's results leaves us well in contention with a decent run of games to come leading up to the Liverpool game. This season is going to be a rollercoaster, lets at least try to enjoy it.

Good post. The part in bold is pretty clearly a strategy of ours. We are possibly the most dangerous team in the league when we have final third space. It would be a poor strategy NOT to try to draw teams out to us so we can try to create that.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Another shite performance. Another 3 points though.

 

[georgipep]

I'm talking before he was making the last substitute.

putting 2 guys on that can't run and then leaving rashford on the wing where he was cheating - no wonder they were getting cross after cross into the box.

With no Rashford we would be on the back foot the whole time. I wouldn't have subbed him as well.

 

[OleTheGreat]

I personally don't think we are a team who can play out from the back because our CBs and wing backs are not good at passing through the lines or good to find Bruno from far. We always almost go backwards immediately. With a better CDM, we can start passing out from the back because a CDM will come in and take the ball from the keeper or the center backs and proceed forward. Matic was literally part of that defense line and he was useless in carrying the ball forward. Pogba had a great game and so did the forward 4. It was a good game to watch but it will definitely not be the same on Sunday against Leeds. They're a good team and we need to be better in the midfield against them. I hope we carry on this form and get some wins at home as well.

 

[Nick7]

We were fairly shite for most of the game.

 

[Adam-Utd]

With no Rashford we would be on the back foot the whole time. I wouldn't have subbed him as well.

For the last 10 minutes? he did literally nothing but walk around watching his marker run off him. He was about to get subbed but then the 2nd goal happened and Ole decided for Mctominay. Watch their 2nd goal again and you'll see what I mean.

 

[ChaddyP]

Yeah, his finishing still isn't what it should be. Even his second, he didn't catch it right. That first goal was brilliant af though.

Agreed second goal was a bit lucky... He didn't catch it right. First goal was a work of art

 

[red woppit]

Henderson has a shaky game in his 2nd league start for us and people want to bin him. Jesus wept. De Gea was shaky for his first 12 months for us.

Absolutely. A lot of fans thought we had made a big mistake when we bought De Gea, he was so lightweight, would never come for crosses, and was bullied from corners. He obviously improved significantly over the years, but it was mainly his shot saving ability that saved us on numerous occasions, rather than his ability at crosses and corners.

 

[georgipep]

For the last 10 minutes? he did literally nothing but walk around watching his marker run off him. He was about to get subbed but then the 2nd goal happened and Ole decided for Mctominay. Watch their 2nd goal again and you'll see what I mean.

Being a threat has nothing to do with what you do and everything to do with what the opponent things and fears you are capable of doing. Rashford, just being there, forced them not to commit even more bodies.

 

[Giggsy13]

This game highlighted how good and bad we can be. We have real attacking flair but are absolutely moronic at the back. What’s frustrating is that you can see the potential and we’re arguably 2 to 3 players away from mounting a title challenge. RW, CB and a striker and this team could be right up there.

 

[alexthelion]

Pretty decent performance and an important three points. We recover yet again from an early setback and we looked pretty dangerous up front, thanks largely to MOM Rashford.

It was clear we'd settled at 3-1. Henderson with a bad error. Welcome to United. You cant do that here son.

Thats now 10 straight away league wins. 5 wins and a draw from our last 6 games. Any chance we can knock the Ole out talk on the head for a few days?

Good luck with that, they've already started.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Being a threat has nothing to do with what you do and everything to do with what the opponent things and fears you are capable of doing. Rashford, just being there, forced them not to commit even more bodies.

yet that makes zero sense as they were throwing everybody forward to score. We were already winning 3-1 and needed to stop the ball getting into the box and he failed to help Telles effectively.

 

[Bilbo]

Good luck with that, they've already started.

Painful isnt it? Nobody will ever accept that they have agendas on anything, but 16 pts from 18 and it still just keeps going around and around.

 

[Devil may care]

Amazon Prime's stupid delayed replay system means I only saw the highlights, the 3 goals we scored were quality, especially the first and third. The ones we conceded were self inflicted again though, we can't keep getting away with these stupid errors.

 

[georgipep]

General reflection: I think it's really hard to figure out just where we are right now. When you watch them play, there are recurring things that just doesn't look good. The dawdling around with the ball and the insistence on playing through the press without being very good at it. The positional lapses from the full backs. The swings in intensity, particularly in terms of movement when in possession. The lack of concentration at the start of games. The persistent conceding of the first goal.

But then again, we're now undefeated in six (not sure if anyone else has managed a streak like that this season, I doubt it), and have scored 3 goals in 3 straight away games. There's a mismatch between what the games make you feel, and the results. So, what gives? Are some of the things that don't look good in fact unavoidable side-effects from things that are required in order to enable us to be so proficient? Are things being looked at in the wrong way?

For instance, does it actually matter if we look offensively dominant only in limited spells, as long as we score three goals? And is the fact that we're able to score those goals in some way connected to doing things in a way that means we'll only look dominant in short spells? Maybe it's not such a bad idea after all to try to play through the press patiently - hold on to the ball and just wait for the good opportunities?

Maybe people more versed in tactics and patterns can tell better than I can. But the experts and pundits sound just as lost as I am. You hear mostly critical comments underway, but then we score three wonderful goals. And given how often and regularly that happens, it has to somehow be connected with style, shape and tactics, not just with the skills of individual players.

Pundits aim to create sound bites and quotable witty sentences. That's the clickbait culture in action.

We persist with playing from the back because that's the only way we can learn and be better at it. At the moment we are in the worst phase of that tactical element development because we are both not very good at it while opposition know it and press us extra hard, committing more people to the press. Once we get better, they will get burned more and will gradually stop committing so many players to press us high. Compare how teams play against us to how they play against Liverpool and City. The intensity of their press is very different. Because they know those teams will bypass the press and then will exploit them as they've committed men forward. We just need to be patient and hope our players learn quicker. McT and Matic are the two midfield players who help out our defenders the most in that regard.

As for perception versus reality. That has a lot to do with the recent seasons from City and Liverpool when they've completely distorted expectations of what a strong season means. Because our fans, in their majority, do not watch every game our opponents play, but only see them in highlights, MOTD, etc., they believe City and Liverpool dominate every game from the first until the very last second of those games. That's completely untrue.

It's absolutely normal to have periods during the game when the opposition is on the front foot and try to make something out of it. We are extremely arrogant and disrespectful for assuming every team we face just accepts they'll get beaten and doesn't even put up a fight. That's completely untrue. And it is the same when they play Liverpool, City, Spurs or any other team. The only thing that changes is their specific approach to maximise their chances. Against us that is high press and targeting the wide spaces because they know our fullbacks tuck inside.

 

[HaliRed]

What? We had several chances that should have been scored on after the 3-1

Don't you know that on the Caf, one never lets the facts get in the way of a good story!

 

[city-puma]

Henderson has a cruel lessen but it is good to face it in such early stage of his manutd career and the error eventually does not result in material impact. He showed his character and perform really well after the error. I feel quite assured when the opponent takes the set pieces because he are more commanding and proactive in the box. His distribution is also good to get us attack quickly.

One thing I think Ole did wrong is substitutes. We wanna rest Bruno and Rashford for Leeds game. The substitutes should be,
Mata -> Bruno
James -> Rashford
Why did he substitute Mason first?
Other than above, we are playing amazingly. But as always, once Bruno is off, the whole team downgrades significantly. We need a solution quickly.

 

[noodlehair]

Thinly veiled ole out post. Sad really, rather than enjoy the win you've managed to turn the whole thing into one big negative.

What does this even mean. How do you "thinly veil" an Ole out post?

I'm mostly in the "no point being in Ole in or Ole out camp because it's stupid" camp.

Sad is wasting your time on a discussion forum using baseless assumptions to discredit other people's opinions, rather than actually discussing anything.