[RMD83]

Last night was no reflection on where we are at the moment. We put out a team that can beat spurs or any of the other top 6. It was a game that was swung by two freak events. No matter who he deployed or whatever formation we set up with you don’t expect to concede a goal after 11 seconds nor do you expect to score a freak own goal like that. It was one of those nights. Jose shoulders some of the blame with the two man midfield, they were getting swamped and the most concerning part was the lack of spirit when we were up against it. We looked like we had accepted defeat. It was a blip and nothing else, a bad day at the office.

 

[bosnian_red]

Thinking about it... Yesterday's lost was probably up there with the most disappointing performances since Fergie retired. With Moyes, everyone knew we were hopeless from the start. With Van Gaal we had a tiny bit of hope at first, but there was never too many reasons for optimism and we were a decent team but nothing special. Boring as feck, so it's not like anyone expected much. Last season with Mourinho we were constantly moving things around, never quite looking set, but switched our priorities to the Europa League after countless of home draws and won that, so it was fine in the end. The first half of this season, we've mostly done well, and then when we have lost or performances been shit, you could usually point to key players being unavailable, or being out of form or whatever else. Yesterday the fixture came was basically when there was the most optimism there's been at the club since Sir Alex was here. We were in good form finally heading into a big game, we had pretty much everyone fit, but not only fit, but the players were in form. Martial, Lingard and Pogba were all in good form for the most part, we didn't concede in 6, we just signed fecking Sanchez and it was going to be his real debut.

So getting beaten like we did was a real sickener, as it just killed so much of the optimism around the place, and even if we win our next 3 games comfortably (home to huddersfield, away to newcastle, away in the FA cup), we still probably won't feel too optimistic about a good performance in the next few as we then play away to Sevilla, home to Chelsea, away to Palace (ok..) then home to Liverpool and Sevilla. We basically need to get through all these games positively to get that feel good factor back. Give fans a sense of optimism that we aren't just a group of individuals who are hopeless on the pitch. And by that, basically get through the champions league and win all those games in the league, as we really should be beating all those teams if we want to reach the level that we should be reaching with the players we have. If we have a bad run in those big games, then I'll probably start losing hope in Mourinho ever really stepping it up for us in those big games. Genuinely think it's come to a now or never type situation with Mourinho to prove he can still do it in big games.

 

[eat_grass]

Maybe im a little more pessimistic but 22 shots to 7, Kane had a bit of an off day, on another day Kane and Son both had some good chances it could have been a lot more than 2-0.

I agree with all of that. But I think it stems from conceding the second goal. IOW, United responded well after conceding the first goal, but completely collapsed mentally (emotionally?) after the second. And it was in that collapsed mental state that Tottenham were able to put on a clinic. At 1-0 the game was in United's control (more shots on target than Tottenham), but at 2-0 the wheels fell off and Spuds ran away with the show.

That's how Mourinho adjudged the game too in his post-match press conference and interviews.

 

[haram]

On Alli, I wouldn’t wish injury on him. If someone was to make a bad tackle on him which left him with a bad injury I’d have no sympathy for him though. He obviously doesn't care if he seriously injures other players or not.

 

[crossy1686]

I know it's probably still too early...but those 3 chances created between Sanchez, Martial and Lingard in the first 150 seconds after Spurs scored were just nasty. PSG-esque

One of those goes in and it's a completely different dynamic.

 

[GiddyUp]

I agree with all of that. But I think it stems from conceding the second goal. IOW, United responded well after conceding the first goal, but completely collapsed mentally (emotionally?) after the second. And it was in that collapsed mental state that Tottenham were able to put on a clinic. At 1-0 the game was in United's control (more shots on target than Tottenham), but at 2-0 the wheels fell off and Spuds ran away with the show.

That's how Mourinho adjudged the game too in his post-match press conference and interviews.

Should've been 1-3 up after 4 minutes.

 

[eat_grass]

Should've been 1-3 up after 4 minutes.

It's frustrating. It's frustrating to Mourinho, too.

But even Klopp is at a loss of how to fix it. His solution is to keep attacking (at the expense of his defense) knowing that some are eventually bound to go in.

How do you teach efficiency?

 

[roonster09]

What makes you think, you can't play negative tactics with 4 attacking players? Mourinho had cesc Fabregas, hazard, William, Ramires, Oscar and Costa at Chelsea, he usually deployed atleast 4 of them, that didn't stopped him from deploying negative tactics.

Common sense. You don't play 4 attacking players and Pobga in 2 man midfield to park the bus. You go for 3 at the back and 3 CMs to do it.

Negative tactics is not parking the bus. People should stop abusing the phrase.

 

[eat_grass]

When they refused to show any replays of Lloris' possible handball just prior to scoring the second goal, I immediately thought, "ABU at it again!" Turns out it wasn't a handball anyway, but still ....

Spoiler

 

[edgar allan]

Valencia should have done better there tbh. Schoolboy error - we need a captain who can win the toss ffs.

Sure he hasn't learned English yet.....he called the side of the coin.

 

[Bestietom]

Heads dropped, which is not good to see from top players.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Record premier league attendance 81,978, pretty impressive. You can see why Danny is trying to squeeze in a few more seats to the new WHL.

http://m.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/81978-a-new-record-league-attendance-010218/

 

[Trizy]

Record premier league attendance 81,978, pretty impressive. You can see why Danny is trying to squeeze in a few more seats to the new WHL.

http://m.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/81978-a-new-record-league-attendance-010218/

You do realize that's because you were playing United? . Can bet any money the stadium had a massive amount of tourist and neutrals who wanted to see a the big game. You won't have those going to WHL.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

You do realize that's because you were playing United? . Can bet any money the stadium had a massive amount of tourist and neutrals who wanted to see a the big game. You won't have those going to WHL.

Ummmmmmmm what? Have you seen the average attendances this season? We're averaging 67000 at home, 5000 over the new WHL capacity. Wembley is also one of the worst stadiums to get to and get home from, and a bit of a lifeless place. Why does every post have to be a dig, pretty childish.

 

[Lash]

Ummmmmmmm what? Have you seen the average attendances this season? We're averaging 67000 at home, 5000 over the new WHL capacity. Wembley is also one of the worst stadiums to get to and get home from, and a bit of a lifeless place. Why does every post have to be a dig, pretty childish.

Oh my word this.

Oh and the second part is because it's North London, pal .

I think you'll be making a tonne of money with the new stadium, even if it's not full with die hard fans, you'll get the neutrals because you play more attractive football and a more exciting game than Arsenal.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You do realize that's because you were playing United? . Can bet any money the stadium had a massive amount of tourist and neutrals who wanted to see a the big game. You won't have those going to WHL.

Spurs will easily fill up the new stadium week on week. They're not stupid, they wouldn't have built it with that capacity otherwise. It's not like City who increase theirs just.. because they can.

 

[Trizy]

Spurs will easily fill up the new stadium week on week. They're not stupid, they wouldn't have built it with that capacity otherwise. It's not like City who increase theirs just.. because they can.

I never said they won't fill it. In fact, I'm pretty sure they'll have full attendance. It's the above 81,978 I was arguing with.

 

[Fergus' son]

Pogba, Matic, Jones and Lukaku should be fined for putting in such a performance.

 

[horsechoker]

When they refused to show any replays of Lloris' possible handball just prior to scoring the second goal, I immediately thought, "ABU at it again!" Turns out it wasn't a handball anyway, but still ....

Spoiler

They would have replayed it several time if it was De Gea who did that.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I never said they won't fill it. In fact, I'm pretty sure they'll have full attendance. It's the above 81,978 I was arguing with.

he never said they'd get above 81,000 though.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Thinking about it... Yesterday's lost was probably up there with the most disappointing performances since Fergie retired. With Moyes, everyone knew we were hopeless from the start. With Van Gaal we had a tiny bit of hope at first, but there was never too many reasons for optimism and we were a decent team but nothing special. Boring as feck, so it's not like anyone expected much. Last season with Mourinho we were constantly moving things around, never quite looking set, but switched our priorities to the Europa League after countless of home draws and won that, so it was fine in the end. The first half of this season, we've mostly done well, and then when we have lost or performances been shit, you could usually point to key players being unavailable, or being out of form or whatever else. Yesterday the fixture came was basically when there was the most optimism there's been at the club since Sir Alex was here. We were in good form finally heading into a big game, we had pretty much everyone fit, but not only fit, but the players were in form. Martial, Lingard and Pogba were all in good form for the most part, we didn't concede in 6, we just signed fecking Sanchez and it was going to be his real debut.

So getting beaten like we did was a real sickener, as it just killed so much of the optimism around the place, and even if we win our next 3 games comfortably (home to huddersfield, away to newcastle, away in the FA cup), we still probably won't feel too optimistic about a good performance in the next few as we then play away to Sevilla, home to Chelsea, away to Palace (ok..) then home to Liverpool and Sevilla. We basically need to get through all these games positively to get that feel good factor back. Give fans a sense of optimism that we aren't just a group of individuals who are hopeless on the pitch. And by that, basically get through the champions league and win all those games in the league, as we really should be beating all those teams if we want to reach the level that we should be reaching with the players we have. If we have a bad run in those big games, then I'll probably start losing hope in Mourinho ever really stepping it up for us in those big games. Genuinely think it's come to a now or never type situation with Mourinho to prove he can still do it in big games.

I agree mate... it was even worse because I was there! Had to queue for 45 minutes to get the tube in the freezing cold. One of the biggest letdowns I can remember.

 

[Handsome Devil]

I agree with all of that. But I think it stems from conceding the second goal. IOW, United responded well after conceding the first goal, but completely collapsed mentally (emotionally?) after the second. And it was in that collapsed mental state that Tottenham were able to put on a clinic. At 1-0 the game was in United's control (more shots on target than Tottenham), but at 2-0 the wheels fell off and Spuds ran away with the show.

That's how Mourinho adjudged the game too in his post-match press conference and interviews.

This state of mind has been around for a longtime now. United used to be famous for their "never say die" attitude. I remember Law say once about the championship winning 60s teams that, if they were two down at half-time, they knew they were good enough to put in three in the second half. I always thought Fergie's teams were second half teams too. That was when they upped a gear and often turned the match around. Hell, sometimes they were a second half of season team - remember catching up with Newcastle who were miles ahead at Christmas. How would this lot have coped in '99, 1-0 down to Bayern with minutes to go?
I don't know how they turn this mental state around.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Think the biggest issue for me is that we just looked like a bunch of individuals, completely lacking in spirit. We went 2-0 down and they seemed to give up. It was like a friendly game.

There are obviously tactical issues as well: None of our current back four looks comfortable on the ball, so we have to play it long, and our striker can't hold the ball up. Oh yeah, and we play two in midfield so we're always going to struggle against teams that press like Spurs. It's a complete recipe for disaster.

But more than those tactical points which even I, as a layman, can see, it just seems we have no plan, no identity. What's our strategy for winning big games? Parking the bus and hoping for the best on the counter-attack? Mourinho's tactics could be justified if we were getting results but we aren't: against the other top five teams (Arsenal don't really count anymore) we've scored one goal in the last eight away games and managed zero wins, three draws and five defeats.

Mourinho's obviously improved us defensively and the results are better, but he's replacing two of the worst managers in United history and if you'd presented Moyes or LVG with Pogba, Mkhi, Bailly, Matic, Ibra and another £75m striker they'd probably be in the top four as well.

To be honest, I feel the same way about Mourinho as I did about Moyes and LVG, just before results really started to go south. It feels like we'll reach a turning point one way or another very soon.

 

[NFM]

its the brittleness of the mentality that is the main problem, that and not many real 'winners' on the pitch. The players were probably just the same as the fans, on a high going into the match. Then the first 11 seconds happened. But they managed to dust themselves down and attacked a fair bit before the 2nd calamity goal. Then Young, who most of the dangerous moves went through, visibly stopped running forward, and Spurs increasingly took hold of United's weak , soft center.
Mourinho thought after last season's trophy wins that some sort of winning mentality had returned to the club. But alas with some of these players it will never last, they just aren't made of that sort of stuff. As I keep saying at the elite end of all major sports, its whats between the ears that ultimately makes the difference. Fergie picked players on that basis, and he was a magician at influencing players to 'believe'. Mourinho used to be similar, some of his own personal battles have dulled it a bit, but given the right material he is capable of moulding a winning team mentality.

 

[Macern]

 

[desmondisback]

For me , ever since Mourinho arrived I've been waiting for a moment to really inspire me. A big win away or a tactical masterclass. Something to get me off my seat and think "this team is really going places!".

Yes we won the Europa and the Carabao but still I wasn't off my seat somehow. Instead , too often , I've been on the edge of my seat and then had to slump back into it with results and performances like this one. I'm not even looking for instant success either , just something further down the line. Some green shoots maybe?

I sense this same feeling around the entire fan base. Something is missing and all the stats and rationalising can't hide it. Even Mourinho's reputation can't hold it back forever.

 

[Mozza]

Tottenham are the perfect illustration of the failure of Mouriniho. Tottenham have no great pace or dribblers in their side, all they achieve as an attacking unit comes from good movement. Look at the second goal, when's the last time we saw Valencia or Young receiving a ball to cross on the run?

Mouriniho is done, he must be sacked

 

[Irish Jet]

Tottenham are the perfect illustration of the failure of Mouriniho. Tottenham have no great pace or dribblers in their side, all they achieve as an attacking unit comes from good movement. Look at the second goal, when's the last time we saw Valencia or Young receiving a ball to cross on the run?

Mouriniho is done, he must be sacked

Jesus.

 

[RedorDead21]

Tottenham are the perfect illustration of the failure of Mouriniho. Tottenham have no great pace or dribblers in their side, all they achieve as an attacking unit comes from good movement. Look at the second goal, when's the last time we saw Valencia or Young receiving a ball to cross on the run?

Mouriniho is done, he must be sacked

He's probably the most successful manager on the planet still working?

 

[RedorDead21]

its the brittleness of the mentality that is the main problem, that and not many real 'winners' on the pitch. The players were probably just the same as the fans, on a high going into the match. Then the first 11 seconds happened. But they managed to dust themselves down and attacked a fair bit before the 2nd calamity goal. Then Young, who most of the dangerous moves went through, visibly stopped running forward, and Spurs increasingly took hold of United's weak , soft center.
Mourinho thought after last season's trophy wins that some sort of winning mentality had returned to the club. But alas with some of these players it will never last, they just aren't made of that sort of stuff. As I keep saying at the elite end of all major sports, its whats between the ears that ultimately makes the difference. Fergie picked players on that basis, and he was a magician at influencing players to 'believe'. Mourinho used to be similar, some of his own personal battles have dulled it a bit, but given the right material he is capable of moulding a winning team mentality.

We all know we need a real leader on the pitch....they are as rare as any world class player these days though in a sport dominated by cash given out to young kids.....

 

[Mozza]

He's probably the most successful manager on the planet still working?

It's not working any more

 

[eat_grass]

This state of mind has been around for a longtime now.
...
I don't know how they turn this mental state around.

I don't know either, but it's the most grating aspect of this United team. It got me thinking, though: which club does still possess that fighting spirit nowadays? I'm tempted to blame it on modern-day culture.

The team's capitulation pisses me off to no end. Alli's cut-down of Sanchez should have been met with balled up fists, not peacemakers.

 

[eat_grass]

They would have replayed it several time if it was De Gea who did that.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Another one who didn't watch the game properly.

No. He's just a scouse wum.