[noodlehair]

I don't get why we've changed to this dumb 3 man midfield system? We only have one competent midfielder so playing a system with an extra one in it is just very obviously a terrible idea.

There was nothing wrong with the system at all in the first few games. You can generally tell when a sytem/tactics are ok because you watch the game, and even if it's going wrong you're thinking "he's playing shite", "we're not doing this very well", "wake up you twats" etc.

When the system is wrong, like against Fayenoord and yesterday, you spend the whole game thinking "what in the feck is going on...what are any of our players actually suppossed to be doing?"

Pogba doesn't need to be ahead of the midfield. He especiially doesn't need to be if Rooney is also going to be, and he ESPECIALLY doesn't need to be if it means playing Fellaini and Schneiderlin together. Play Pogba IN midfield. That's where he plays. He's a midfielder...the only non shite one we have.

Other things that don't help:
- Rooney
- Zlatan missing open goals, and generally being so terrible at either beinng alive to our play, or keeping the ball, that it's impossible to build attacks.
- Smalling coming back into the team and then spending the first half hour of the game getting out of bed
- General inability of our players to look like they're not daydreaming.


One thing that really fecks me off, and it's been the case for a long while, is that when you watch City or Liverpool, or even some of the less decent teams, they play with purpose. They are alert, they move the ball quickly. THey understand that even though they are talented footballers, they have to go out and want and deserve to win a game, before their ability allows them to. We don't have this. Our players go out, and just seem to think because they're United the game will win itself. They all want to take an eternity to play a pass. When the ball goes loose, it is ALWAYS an opposition player who reacts first. They get caught out constantly where other teams don't due to not being fully alert to what's going on around them (see all six of the goals we conceded last week). It is embarassing. We basically have a team of complete knobheads.

 

[BlakeUtd]

One thing that really fecks me off, and it's been the case for a long while, is that when you watch City or Liverpool, or even some of the less decent teams, they play with purpose. They are alert, they move the ball quickly. THey understand that even though they are talented footballers, they have to go out and want and deserve to win a game, before their ability allows them to. We don't have this. Our players go out, and just seem to think because they're United the game will win itself. They all want to take an eternity to play a pass. When the ball goes loose, it is ALWAYS an opposition player who reacts first. They get caught out constantly where other teams don't due to not being fully alert to what's going on around them (see all six of the goals we conceded last week). It is embarassing. We basically have a team of complete knobheads.

This x10. Its really fecking annoying. Its like they show all their nerve in the pressers or interviews on the official site and never show up to the games. If they do its always after the first half. How many games in the past year or so have we started with top class passion/ aggression and focus like the best teams. Its sort of like when we always used to complain about Fergies teams waiting till after christmas to show up. But at least then we knew it would be like clockwork and when they showed up they reaally showed up. Now we just walk into games daydreaming and only seem to want to win it when we are behind or after 70 mins when it is too late. SMFH

 

[noodlehair]

This x10. Its really fecking annoying. Its like they show all their nerve in the pressers or interviews on the official site and never show up to the games. If they do its always after the first half. How many games in the past year or so have we started with top class passion/ aggression and focus like the best teams. Its sort of like when we always used to complain about Fergies teams waiting till after christmas to show up. But at least then we knew it would be like clockwork and when they showed up they reaally showed up. Now we just walk into games daydreaming and only seem to want to win it when we are behind or after 70 mins when it is too late. SMFH

Exactly. At this evel you shouldn't get situations where oe team is better than another because it tries harder, but in our games this is often what happens. We play without any real purpose, or urgency. If a ball loose, our players either jog over to it, or back away from it. Opposition players sprint to it. If an opposition players miscontrols a ball, or is played a dodgy pass, our players jog over to press them and give them time to recover. If one of our players does this, they have two opposition players hounding them before they have a chance to recover the situation.

It all sounds really clliched buut it's what actually does happen in our games and to be honest it's absolutely pathetic. I could count the players in our squad who aren't guilty of this on one hand. It's like its just become accepted practice. It doesn't explain everything but we wont be winning titles or doing anything particullarly special until our players want to show they're made of the right stuff.

Some of the worst culprits I don't think are actually good enough to be playing at the level we want to be at anyway, and you'd think if you were a limited player, you'd WANT to make sure you're doing everything in a game you can, but no.

 

[VP89]

I don't get why we've changed to this dumb 3 man midfield system? We only have one competent midfielder so playing a system with an extra one in it is just very obviously a terrible idea.

I don't think its dumb, its the best system to play if we deploy the right players(IMO Pogba Herrera pivot with Blind holding).

Agreed that a 3 man midfield should never take shape if 2/3rds of it is Rooney and Fellaini.

There was nothing wrong with the system at all in the first few games. You can generally tell when a sytem/tactics are ok because you watch the game, and even if it's going wrong you're thinking "he's playing shite", "we're not doing this very well", "wake up you twats" etc.

I disagree with this. We were just OK in our opening games (bar Hull where despite a last minute goal, we created many chances) and were found out against City.

Pogba doesn't need to be ahead of the midfield. He especiially doesn't need to be if Rooney is also going to be, and he ESPECIALLY doesn't need to be if it means playing Fellaini and Schneiderlin together. Play Pogba IN midfield. That's where he plays. He's a midfielder...the only non shite one we have.

Pogba has shown multiple times (Derby being most recent) that he lacks the discipline to play in a midfield two.

Other things that don't help:
- Rooney
- Zlatan missing open goals, and generally being so terrible at either beinng alive to our play, or keeping the ball, that it's impossible to build attacks.
- Smalling coming back into the team and then spending the first half hour of the game getting out of bed
- General inability of our players to look like they're not daydreaming.

I agree with most of this, but how did Smalling look like he spent the first half hour getting out the bed? The replay of the DDG clash suggested DDG never called for the ball in the first place.

 

[noodlehair]

I don't think its dumb, its the best system to play if we deploy the right players(IMO Pogba Herrera pivot with Blind holding).

Agreed that a 3 man midfield should never take shape if 2/3rds of it is Rooney and Fellaini.

I don't think it is. Pogba allways llooks really poor to me in that role. He jogs about, he plays sideways passes, he faffs around with the ball, and he has utterly ludicrous attempts on goal. He's ineffective there.

He can drive forwards from midfield. He commits players, and he can also pick a pass. He doesn't need to be holding if the guy next to him is doing that. The problem is the guy next to him isn't very good, but this isn't a problem that is solved by moving Pogba somewhere else.

I disagree with this. We were just OK in our opening games (bar Hull where despite a last minute goal, we created many chances) and were found out against City.

Pogba has shown multiple times (Derby being most recent) that he lacks the discipline to play in a midfield two.

I don't disagree that we were only ok, even against Hull we made it more difficult than it should have been, but we had a shape and we had a system, and a way of playing. What we also had was a situation where certain things needed working on and needed time to really come together. We weren't good at closing spaces down when sitting off teams, our front players hadn't really clicked, etc.

City found us out because they turned up, started the game alert and on the front foot, and we didn't. I don't think it would have made any difference what system we'd started the game with, to be honest. Sometimes it's down to you just not playing well enough, and there was nothing about the first hallf against City that was good enough. What we've seen in the two games since is a complete mess that clearly isn't working on any level.

IF Pogba lacks the discipline to play in a midfield two, then how does moving him forwards so it effectively becomes a midfield one, in anyway solve this problem? It is impossible that this does anything other than make the problem worse.

You can play him ahead of a midfield two, but then you have two problems 1) you scarifice a no10 which, on evidence of how Pogba plays when he's in that role, isn't worth it, and 2) It means you have to play Fellaini AND someone else. You have Schneiderlin, who's positional discipline and awareness is quite frankly pathetic, Carrick, who's old, or Herrera, for who you could apply the same arguments that apply to Pogba.

There's allso Blind, but if it were up to me I'd be considering playing him instead of Fellaini. Certainly not with him. The only trio I really see having a chance of being effective is Blind, Herrera and Pogba, but I'm not sure how you set the three of them up in a way that works. I'm not sure it offers enough to justify losing the extra forward player.

I agree with most of this, but how did Smalling look like he spent the first half hour getting out the bed? The replay of the DDG clash suggested DDG never called for the ball in the first place.

He actually looked and saw DDG coming and just didn't really react, but it wasn't really that incident, as daft as it was. He was just really sluggish most of the first half. He wasn't the only one. It's infuriating how often loose balls in our half are collected by opposition players before a United player even reacts. You almost never see this happen at the other end

 

[VP89]

I don't think it is. Pogba allways llooks really poor to me in that role. He jogs about, he plays sideways passes, he faffs around with the ball, and he has utterly ludicrous attempts on goal. He's ineffective there.

He can drive forwards from midfield. He commits players, and he can also pick a pass. He doesn't need to be holding if the guy next to him is doing that. The problem is the guy next to him isn't very good, but this isn't a problem that is solved by moving Pogba somewhere else.

But didn't he play on the left midfield 3 alongside Pirlo/Marchisio for Juventus? I think it works well for him if we have complimentary players in a screener and actual box to box player capable of interchanging play. Obviously Rooney and Fellaini couldn't be further from that.

I've also noticed Pogba is more deep than he should be but I'm really concerned seeing him in a midfield two. His discipline is not there, and he went for walkies multiple times versus City.

City found us out because they turned up, started the game alert and on the front foot, and we didn't. I don't think it would have made any difference what system we'd started the game with, to be honest. Sometimes it's down to you just not playing well enough, and there was nothing about the first hallf against City that was good enough. What we've seen in the two games since is a complete mess that clearly isn't working on any level.

I think one big problem versus City is simply we that we let them play their game , so I agree to an extent that they turned up and we didn't. However our midfield wasn't structured accordingly to deal with them in the first place. Pogba in a midfield two didn't work in that regard.

Spoiler

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...down-paul-pogbas-manchester-derby-performance

IF Pogba lacks the discipline to play in a midfield two, then how does moving him forwards so it effectively becomes a midfield one, in anyway solve this problem? It is impossible that this does anything other than make the problem worse.

I think the best structure from our midfield, which also makes best use of Pogba is moving from a 4-2-3-1 (where we shoe-horn Rooney in) to an actual structured midfield unit with a screener and box to box pivot to compliment Pogba. Link below because the image fails to work for some reason.

http://startingeleven.co.uk/user-formation/142390

Having a screener in Blind will ensure some composure in the middle of the park whilst also freeing Pogba more from his defensive duties. He will be able to interchange quicker with Herrera who is far more agile and nimble than Ronney in the middle of the park. I think its more what you eluded to also in the rest of your post.

He actually looked and saw DDG coming and just didn't really react, but it wasn't really that incident, as daft as it was. He was just really sluggish most of the first half. He wasn't the only one. It's infuriating how often loose balls in our half are collected by opposition players before a United player even reacts. You almost never see this happen at the other end

Maybe I'l have to rewatch. The entire team was sluggish, I agree. I remember when SAF wanted a result he would reveal that his words were to pass the ball around quicker. We never once looked like doing that against Watford nor Feyenoord. Regardless of the system, if you're not playing at a fast tempo when required to you won't win the game. Its why we are screaming out for a player like Blind/Carrick to sure up the midfield when in possession.

 

[sunama]

Lvg broke them mentally, they're afraid to play football. Only cure is booting half the team out and starting again

In the LVG OUT thread, I remember this subject did come up.
After playing 2 years of risk averse football and playing as if we are fighting relegation, will our players be able to change their playing style, when this instruction comes.
The answer seems "no".
In our last 2 games it was as if I were watching an LVG team (especially in the 1st halves), with players reluctant to attack and content to wind down 90 minutes, then come off the pitch, happy with another pay-cheque.

 

[CS@SG]

Yes yes yes, keep blaming the previous managers, things will get better by doing that.

 

[GiddyUp]

First thing I will say is that it was another inept display by a premier league referee. This league has a serious problem with such inconsistent officiating. If I had control I would replace everyone of them. I listened to that old fecker David Pleat totally ignore Oliver's running in the opposite direction of play and failure to award a foul to martial for the goal yet praise him three minutes later for running forty yards to catch foul for a run of the mill foul in the least advantageous position on the field.
My next point is Smalling. I have never rated him and feel he would not be out of place back at Fulham. His positioning was very naive for both goals especially the second. He cannot fight for the ball without a push or pull, every fecking time. Did anyone else see him pulling our own players shirt when going for a defensive header yesterday, crazy. I would have blind in there any day of the week before Smalling.
The mindset off these players needs to be coached out of them but some are too dumb or limited to move forward with this team. I was in shock how bad every first team player became when SAF retired. Professionals on astronomical salarys should not crumble just because of a change. These same players find it almost impossible to play on instinct now after a few seasons under Van Gaal.
It will take a window or two but here is my list of players that must be let go, Rooney, Smalling, Depay and Young. First three because they are shit and Young because of the lack of quality but can't fault his attitude. Fellaini, Valencia, jones and Carrick should be squad and cup only.

 

[ravi2]

Not sure what else Jose needs to see to know that Fellaini-Pogba-Rooney is not going to work in the centre.

While the refereeing was suspect, I wish folks would stop bitching about the refs.
We are playing rubbish at the moment and it isnt the fault of the refs or previous managers.

I dont think Rooney can be any more worse even if he tried and shame on Jose for continually playing him despite the glaring evidence that he is past it. If he keeps starting Rooney and Fellaini and he is asking for it.

 

[Shark]

The more I think of this defeat today, the more I think we're destined for another season of mediocrity and failure.

 

[ravi2]

Mourinho has not lost 3 games in a row for 14 years.
MUFC have not lost to Watford for 30 years.
The roll of negative records has been resumed.

I am seriously beginning to buy into the theory that we are cursed.

Even Jose is probably thinking to himself, wtf have I got myself into.

Jose only has to look in the mirror....starting Rooney and Fellaini continually in the centre will be the death of him.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

 

[sunama]

I was never excited by the news Jose will be our manager. Simply because I know what happens wherever he has been before.

Wins trophies?

Who will replace him? In the perfect world Giggs will take over and do a "Guardiola"/"Enrique"/"Simeone"

 

[sunama]

Jose only has to look in the mirror....starting Rooney and Fellaini continually in the centre will be the death of him.

Rooney and Fellaini (along with 9 other players, who happen to be very good), should be enough to beat Watford.

 

[RedCurry]

Where the hell is the passion? How are we so terrible that we keep getting caught out on counter attacks?

Rooney will certainly be on the bench for next PL game, I have no doubt. But that isn't going to just solve our problem. We aren't playing for each other and there is no positional awareness. Mourinho looks clueless already, he has to get this team to start pressing. They are just jogging for most game. No team jogs along to glory. I would bench any player who doesn't at least give us 11km, all out sprinting, for the next game.

 

[ravi2]

Rooney and Fellaini (along with 9 other players, who happen to be very good), should be enough to beat Watford.

In Theory ...yes.
Rooney cant even seem to pass a ball these days, with him in the #10 everything grinds to a halt around him.

TBF Fellaini hasnt preformed badly this season, but to have him as the only DM is just asking for shit. There is no positional/tactical awareness or creativity coming from the middle.

 

[rockerlad]

Jose needs to drop Rooney

 

[MUFAN79]

Rooney has failed to assist a goal from a corner in 84 Premier League games, his last was vs. Cardiff City in 2013

Where the hell is the passion? How are we so terrible that we keep getting caught out on counter attacks?

Rooney will certainly be on the bench for next PL game, I have no doubt. But that isn't going to just solve our problem. We aren't playing for each other and there is no positional awareness. Mourinho looks clueless already, he has to get this team to start pressing. They are just jogging for most game. No team jogs along to glory. I would bench any player who doesn't at least give us 11km, all out sprinting, for the next game.

I would too.

 

[f_to_z]

There is still a big problem with the team which is obvious. It is not only certain players not playing well. It is not only about the right formation. It is not only about Rooney. After watching United lose the last three games in a row I can surely see the the problem is much bigger.

I can see a team with no fighting spirit. I can see many mistakes in passing, movement, and even first touches which should be the basics of any football team yet alone a team full of big names. I can see a team playing as individuals no teamwork at all. I can see a team mentally fragile and going down 1-0 shatters their confidence as if its made from glass. I can see a team with no flexibility as to change a formation and instructions if things are not working well. I can see players playing with scared faces with no bravery what so ever.

Therefore I can say again the issue is a lot bigger than we are imagining. Can it be solved of course yes but it will need a comprehensive look at the issues and not just changing first team players here and there.

 

[RedCurry]

Rooney has failed to assist a goal from a corner in 84 Premier League games, his last was vs. Cardiff City in 2013


I would too.

There is something we can learn from this season's liverpool and last season's leicester teams. Workrate is hell of a lot more important than talent. We need our players to want to be a part of each attacking move. Sprint up to support the forwards, play one touch football, try some flicks around the box, put in the ball early when we can, everyone has the responsibility to try and play a decisive pass, everyone needs to score. When we lose the ball sprint back, recycle and attack again at full throttle till we break the team and score. If you haven't made a tackle in the game, you should ask yourself why. None of this needs a lot of talent, just motivation and drive. When we do this, the talented players will naturally shine.

If any player isn't capable of doing that, they can warm the bench no matter what their name is.

 

[The Mad Manc]

He was captain though, wasn't he...

Without the armband, how do we know? His "performance" certainly didn't indicate he was leading the side

 

[The Mad Manc]

We need to be looking at a midfield 3 if we are going to play Pogba. NO ONE will be good with Pogba unless we play a midfield 3, he leaves them far too vunerable.

And we have stop playing Pogba and Rooney, both of them should not be able to "express themselves" as it just has us looking like a chicken with our heads cut off.

Agreed. I'd have Pogba and Herrera in front of Blind or Carrick. Blind/Carrick can dictate from deep and allow Pogba and Herrera to be positive and push on. Rooney's performances simply don't justify a place in the starting XI or his exorbitant wages.

 

[shaggy]

I am feeling slightly more optimistic today, if only for the fact that surely Rooney WILL be dropped for the next league game. There is not a single reason why he should be playing in the next match after that performance. Even coward Schneiderlin is a better option than current Rooney and therefore whoever we play it is in improvement. I would hope some of the players are itching to go out and prove themselves and aren't shitting themselves like usual.

If Jose continues to play Rooney then I really do fear for us.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I am feeling slightly more optimistic today, if only for the fact that surely Rooney WILL be dropped for the next league game. There is not a single reason why he should be playing in the next match after that performance. Even coward Schneiderlin is a better option than current Rooney and therefore whoever we play it is in improvement. I would hope some of the players are itching to go out and prove themselves and aren't shitting themselves like usual.

If Jose continues to play Rooney then I really do fear for us.

I haven't seen anything to suggest Rooney will be dropped.

He won't play midweek. He'll play our next league game again. I think Mourinho has blind faith in him.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

For the second goal, the player is free because Fellani is attempting to make up for Pogba's getting caught out. The interesting thing is all 3 Watford players are goal side of their defender, which is pretty shocking. The first goal, is Fellani proving he is not a defensive or holding midfielder. He is totally unaware of Capoue, and Rooney looks like he has just identified the danger, but it is all too late. Again, Valencia letting the attacker get goal side. Pretty poor in both cases.

 

[Xoe]

The fix of 'dropping' Rooney didn't work for the Europa game did it??

Still, drop him, play Pogba further up the field, bit of pace of the flanks hopefully...

 

[xplatformjedi]

I don't get why we've changed to this dumb 3 man midfield system? We only have one competent midfielder so playing a system with an extra one in it is just very obviously a terrible idea.

There was nothing wrong with the system at all in the first few games. You can generally tell when a sytem/tactics are ok because you watch the game, and even if it's going wrong you're thinking "he's playing shite", "we're not doing this very well", "wake up you twats" etc.

When the system is wrong, like against Fayenoord and yesterday, you spend the whole game thinking "what in the feck is going on...what are any of our players actually suppossed to be doing?"

Pogba doesn't need to be ahead of the midfield. He especiially doesn't need to be if Rooney is also going to be, and he ESPECIALLY doesn't need to be if it means playing Fellaini and Schneiderlin together. Play Pogba IN midfield. That's where he plays. He's a midfielder...the only non shite one we have.

Other things that don't help:
- Rooney
- Zlatan missing open goals, and generally being so terrible at either beinng alive to our play, or keeping the ball, that it's impossible to build attacks.
- Smalling coming back into the team and then spending the first half hour of the game getting out of bed
- General inability of our players to look like they're not daydreaming.


One thing that really fecks me off, and it's been the case for a long while, is that when you watch City or Liverpool, or even some of the less decent teams, they play with purpose. They are alert, they move the ball quickly. THey understand that even though they are talented footballers, they have to go out and want and deserve to win a game, before their ability allows them to. We don't have this. Our players go out, and just seem to think because they're United the game will win itself. They all want to take an eternity to play a pass. When the ball goes loose, it is ALWAYS an opposition player who reacts first. They get caught out constantly where other teams don't due to not being fully alert to what's going on around them (see all six of the goals we conceded last week). It is embarassing. We basically have a team of complete knobheads.

+1 to this post.

Also, even though the tandem got skinned by the best team in the league, I think Bailly and Blind complement each other way better than Bailly with Smalling. Imho I've seen Smalling have more poor games than Blind.

Blind got skinned in the final West Ham game last season but he's been solid since.

Swap Rooney for Mky, keep a back line of Valencia/Bailly/Blind/Shaw, swap Herrera for Fellaini, have a front line of Martial(or Memphis if Marial is hurt)/Ibra/Rashford...and ride that exact lineup for 5 games. It either works or it doesn't.

Yes, I'd like Carrack as the holding mid...but I'm not sure of his health or his pace to cover more than the back. Herrera gets the nod because he can cover the entire pitch.

 

[Salfordlad70]

Just got back from Madagascar to find we've lost three on the bounce. Struggled to get an Internet connection and I am thinking of going back to hide in the jungle. How bad were we?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The fix of 'dropping' Rooney didn't work for the Europa game did it??

Still, drop him, play Pogba further up the field, bit of pace of the flanks hopefully...

But for an officiating mistake we would have got something from that game. We weren't great but not as bad as when Rooney came back into the side. Watford was a lot worse.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Just got back from Madagascar to find we've lost three on the bounce. Struggled to get an Internet connection and I am thinking of going back to hide in the jungle. How bad were we?

A lot better in 2nd half against City, then ripped off by referee. EL not great, no Rooney, but again ripped off by officials otherwise it would have been a 0-0 draw. Sunday, Rooney back, absolutely abysmal.

 

[montpelier]

Just got back from Madagascar to find we've lost three on the bounce. Struggled to get an Internet connection and I am thinking of going back to hide in the jungle. How bad were we?

City - slaughtered 1st half but somehow only 1-2 at HT. Improved 2nd half, got in the game, didn't get a penalty but didn't look brilliant either. Credit where it's due but we could have lost by lots. Or maybe we deserved a point. One of those afternoons.

Feyernoord - awful game, surprise offside goal for the home team, Utd looked like a team thrown together in early pre-season for a game no one is bothered about winning. One of those evenings.

Watford - Referee had a shocker, Utd were far worse. One of those flights back to the jungle.

 

[do.ob]

I think the biggest problem us that the squad is a patch work of entirely different styles.
From Moyes to van Gaal to Mourinho is not in the least bit showing any kind of overarching philosophy, in fact it's the complete opposite.

I reckon that Liverpool's and City's squads were already rather compatible with their new coaches, because they aren't polar opposites from their predecessors and on addition to that they are completely ruthless when it comes to players who don't fit their philosophy.

Another thing is that Mourinho's idea of football is imho much more negative to begin with so even under ideal conditions it wouldn't look as exciting as the other two's.

I think these past years the club is paying the price for not establishing a DoF during SAF's final years.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Gaping hole in the middle. Fellaini alone in midfield won't do at all. He's like the proverbial Dutch boy trying to put his fingers in all the many holes in the dam. I think he needs help, and he doesn't get it from the likes of Rooney and Pogba.

I think only a prime Carrick can do what Fellaini is being asked to do. Fellaini's awareness and anticipation is just not on the same level.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Gaping hole in the middle. Fellaini alone in midfield won't do at all. He's like the proverbial Dutch boy trying to put his fingers in all the many holes in the dam. I think he needs help, and he doesn't get it from the likes of Rooney and Pogba.

I think only a prime Carrick can do what Fellaini is being asked to do. Fellaini's awareness and anticipation is just not on the same level.

Trouble is we don't have a prime Carrick, we have one that you are not quite sure what you are going to get season to season.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Trouble is we don't have a prime Carrick, we have one that you are not quite sure what you are going to get season to season.

Yeah. We'd have to go out there and get a ready made one, or hope that given time and games, one of Herrera, Fellaini or Schneiderlin can grow into the role.

 

[Red71]

I have to say I find myself agreeing with most of the thread one way or another. When I played football, admittedly not at particularly high level, me and my team knew we had to work hard. There were plenty of players better than me over the years but one thing I would do for 90 was work my balls off. If you get done by a bit of magic, fair play to the oppo but if they've outrun you and out fought you, shame on you. That's not good enough.

Whatever the tactics are, there's no excuse from United for that imo. We look like a strong team when we line up until we start to play and then we lose out in the tackle and are second to everything. With all the facilities at United, we should be able to outrun almost every team in the PL. As others have said, win the physical side and the superior skills should take over.

Going back to when I played, if you were ducking out of challenges or not committed, there'd be someone older (and usually scary) ready to put a rocket up you and lead by example with a couple of crunchers. Who's capable of doing that now tho? Where's the nasty bugger getting in their faces. Where's a Keane, Incey, Bruce, Robbo etc....where're the leaders?

 

[Stacks]

I don't get why we've changed to this dumb 3 man midfield system? We only have one competent midfielder so playing a system with an extra one in it is just very obviously a terrible idea.

There was nothing wrong with the system at all in the first few games. You can generally tell when a sytem/tactics are ok because you watch the game, and even if it's going wrong you're thinking "he's playing shite", "we're not doing this very well", "wake up you twats" etc.

When the system is wrong, like against Fayenoord and yesterday, you spend the whole game thinking "what in the feck is going on...what are any of our players actually suppossed to be doing?"

Pogba doesn't need to be ahead of the midfield. He especiially doesn't need to be if Rooney is also going to be, and he ESPECIALLY doesn't need to be if it means playing Fellaini and Schneiderlin together. Play Pogba IN midfield. That's where he plays. He's a midfielder...the only non shite one we have.

Other things that don't help:
- Rooney
- Zlatan missing open goals, and generally being so terrible at either beinng alive to our play, or keeping the ball, that it's impossible to build attacks.
- Smalling coming back into the team and then spending the first half hour of the game getting out of bed
- General inability of our players to look like they're not daydreaming.


One thing that really fecks me off, and it's been the case for a long while, is that when you watch City or Liverpool, or even some of the less decent teams, they play with purpose. They are alert, they move the ball quickly. THey understand that even though they are talented footballers, they have to go out and want and deserve to win a game, before their ability allows them to. We don't have this. Our players go out, and just seem to think because they're United the game will win itself. They all want to take an eternity to play a pass. When the ball goes loose, it is ALWAYS an opposition player who reacts first. They get caught out constantly where other teams don't due to not being fully alert to what's going on around them (see all six of the goals we conceded last week). It is embarassing. We basically have a team of complete knobheads.

Its arrogance. We have many egos. If Jose starts winding the axe then we will get a reaction. Look how hard cities players are working. They know they can get (sacked, dropped from CL squad)

 

[mitchmouse]

Not sure what game Jose was watching if he thinks Shaw was our worst player... maybe he doesn't know the names of at least eight of the others

 

[Giant Midget]

Not sure what game Jose was watching if he thinks Shaw was our worst player... maybe he doesn't know the names of at least eight of the others

When did he say Shaw was the worst player? If you watch the press conference, the point he was making was that he is trying to get players to press the ball more. It is a mental and tactical change from LVG's time, and it it will take some time for them to adjust. Case in point, the goal we conceded came from a situation where Shaw failed to press.

He hardly hung him out to dry or went on a rant. It's just the media blowing things out of proportion again.