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Manchester United 3:0 Watford

Post-match discussion


Sun, 23 February 2020

Fletchageddon

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One of the stupidest posts in a while. Some people have genuine blind hate.
I don't hate Pogba at all. I just know he needs two guys to tidy up after him. He is half assed when he tracks back. He sometimes wants to play and sometimes does not. Bruno wants the ball all the time, he wants to run the game. He tracks back to get the ball. He's got the mentality.

The way this team plays we can't afford to carry anyone in midfield. James and Martial are desperate when they track back. Add Pogba to that and we will just get picked apart.

Bruno is Pogbas replacement. That's why he wasn't signed in the summer. It's kind of obvious. The two of them playing together is a lovely idea and would be brilliant in FM/FIFA. It probably won't happen in real life.
 

alexthelion

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I've just watched Ole's post match presser and I have to say I agree with everything he is saying. He knows martial can do more, he wants the team to play forward fast and more often. Still not happy despite a 3-0 win as we did not start well or have a good first half.

If the players take on board what he is clearly trying to get across the team will achieve it's goals and despite all the setbacks and false dawns this season could be pivotal in our return to the top table of English and European football. We do not have a divine right to it but you can see the direction of travel and it is very positive after 7 aimless years imho.
:)
 

gerdm07

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I think it was a pretty ordinary game up until the Bruno penalty and even after that we ave away the ball pretty cheaply at times. I still think Matic was slow in transition and also i think we fear to push the ball forward. We hardly keep the ball if a defender or a midfielder pushes the ball forward to Martial, James or Greenwood. We still don't string 4 or 5 passes together when pressed profusely. We don't make one touch passes until the second half in every game which irritates me the most because we've been seeing this pattern for the last 6 years where we hardly get off the blocks in the first half and our managers have to give them a talking to in every game after the first half for players to realize they can actually play through a teams defense if they pass around faster.
I really noticed James loosened up after going 3 up and was making one-touch passes more and more which created space for the ball. Like you, I was wondering why don't we play like that from the start? I guess it's because the team has been through some hard times and they don't quite believe in themselves yet. Hopefully, Bruno and results will change this over time.
 

gerdm07

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I don't hate Pogba at all. I just know he needs two guys to tidy up after him. He is half assed when he tracks back. He sometimes wants to play and sometimes does not. Bruno wants the ball all the time, he wants to run the game. He tracks back to get the ball. He's got the mentality.

The way this team plays we can't afford to carry anyone in midfield. James and Martial are desperate when they track back. Add Pogba to that and we will just get picked apart.

Bruno is Pogbas replacement. That's why he wasn't signed in the summer. It's kind of obvious. The two of them playing together is a lovely idea and would be brilliant in FM/FIFA. It probably won't happen in real life.
You could be right about Bruno and Pogba. On the other hand they might just gel very well together as both like quick 1,2 passes. They could also share defensive duties if they are managed right. I really want to see it though. They could be a duo like Motta and Veratti were with PSG a couple of years back. I only watched them a few times but were they fun to watch as they completely dominated the middle of the park and wore down their opponents.
 

Gasolin

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It's all up to Pogba now. Let him have a talk with Ole and figure this out. No one is coming for him at our price tag anyway.
 

OleTheGreat

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I really noticed James loosened up after going 3 up and was making one-touch passes more and more which created space for the ball. Like you, I was wondering why don't we play like that from the start? I guess it's because the team has been through some hard times and they don't quite believe in themselves yet. Hopefully, Bruno and results will change this over time.
Yeah i hope that Bruno can influence a few things but i'm scared he'll become like Pogba and lose interest if we keep constantly losing the ball. I still remember the early days of Jose's reign when Pogba played some fantastic games with Zlatan upfront but he gradually lost interest with the likes of Lukaku, Matic, Fellaini, Valencia, Young, Smalling and some such losing the ball constantly. I hope for Pogba to make his return and learn that all those lose heads are out and we have a better team now and he can really influence a title winning team with Bruno if he gets going. I hope Ole can get Pogba and Bruno working together in sync and somebody like Mctominay or Fred to have their back in mopping up any lose balls. With Rashford, Martial and maybe Sancho up front, we can become a lethal team who cannot stop scoring!
 

Teja

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Shaw was my MOTM. Strong, great work rate, tireless. Fernandes is just a joy to watch - close second for MOTM.
I mean tirelessness is good, but the man assisted all 3 goals (even though the stats say otherwise) and scored one. No way he's not MoTM.
 

Gator Nate

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Finally got to watch the game late last night. Thought Ole nailed it with the lineup, though I'd picked Bailly over Lindelof, the former probably needed rest. Didn't think we were all that bad in the first half, just couldn't finish off chances and Watford pushed hard.

I thought Bruno really opened up our offense. There was a lot more movement with the ball - it seemed to me that team as a whole started taking more chances yesterday.

Great to see McTominay back on the field. We now have different options, because each of our midfielders has pros and cons, and we can now afford to rest someone each game. And Bruno hasn't been here long enough to fully integrate. Think about that.

Martial seemed looser than he has been, and James was much better on the left. Greenwood wants the ball and is taking good shots. Ighalo will score soon. More options.

Shaw was a beast, and with Williams so young, we're two deep!

For all the complaints against our defense, that's three consecutive clean sheets in the league (and five of of the last six in all comps), and our goal differential is now 4th best.

We're still in the FA Cup and Europa League, and sitting 5th in the league, 3 points behind Chelsea and 9 behind Leicester. Tasty stuff coming up!
 

Bilbo

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Finally got to watch the game late last night. Thought Ole nailed it with the lineup, though I'd picked Bailly over Lindelof, the former probably needed rest. Didn't think we were all that bad in the first half, just couldn't finish off chances and Watford pushed hard.

I thought Bruno really opened up our offense. There was a lot more movement with the ball - it seemed to me that team as a whole started taking more chances yesterday.

Great to see McTominay back on the field. We now have different options, because each of our midfielders has pros and cons, and we can now afford to rest someone each game. And Bruno hasn't been here long enough to fully integrate. Think about that.

Martial seemed looser than he has been, and James was much better on the left. Greenwood wants the ball and is taking good shots. Ighalo will score soon. More options.

Shaw was a beast, and with Williams so young, we're two deep!

For all the complaints against our defense, that's three consecutive clean sheets in the league (and five of of the last six in all comps), and our goal differential is now 4th best.

We're still in the FA Cup and Europa League, and sitting 5th in the league, 3 points behind Chelsea and 9 behind Leicester. Tasty stuff coming up!
Good post. The next four games will define our league season I feel. Everton, City, Spurs & Sheff Utd. We wont win them all, but if we still sit within one result of Chelsea after that we have to be confident looking at the remaining fixtures.
 

Nicoseth

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I mean tirelessness is good, but the man assisted all 3 goals (even though the stats say otherwise) and scored one. No way he's not MoTM.
He wasn't just tireless. He saved our asses in the first few minutes after Maguire and Matic ran into each other. He gave us width and good options going forward and was like a rock at the back. It was close, can totally see why people would give it to Bruno, he was excellent too. And agree that he should have 3 assists.
 

mancan92

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I don't hate Pogba at all. I just know he needs two guys to tidy up after him. He is half assed when he tracks back. He sometimes wants to play and sometimes does not. Bruno wants the ball all the time, he wants to run the game. He tracks back to get the ball. He's got the mentality.

The way this team plays we can't afford to carry anyone in midfield. James and Martial are desperate when they track back. Add Pogba to that and we will just get picked apart.

Bruno is Pogbas replacement. That's why he wasn't signed in the summer. It's kind of obvious. The two of them playing together is a lovely idea and would be brilliant in FM/FIFA. It probably won't happen in real life.
Wait you don'tthink pogba wants the ball? He always has the most touches out of all our players when he plays. All the other stuff is just waffle to me. Pogba doesn't run less than any other player in the team, he's pretty much always in the top 6 for distance covered.
 

arthurka

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Most of them come from having counter attacking setup and us having many 1 v 1 between quick attackers and a heavy CB.
 

Reducation

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I don't think it was a dive; but so fecking what! He got there first and knew the contact was coming, smart play! Well done Bruno. If he didn't do that, the game could of ended very differently as Watford were causing all sorts of issues prior to that. That opened the game up nicely and got us going.
Hmm. Your words suggest that you think he made the decision to hit the deck, which is diving.
 

Gasolin

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Don't look now but are we, dare I say it, hitting some form finally? Those clean sheets are stacking up and we just scored 5 without reply in the PL. Ah feck, jinxed it now.
We are. Next 5 games are crucial for us. Win them all and we will be in prime condition.
Those include City and Spurs in the EPL.
 

Mickson

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I mean tirelessness is good, but the man assisted all 3 goals (even though the stats say otherwise) and scored one. No way he's not MoTM.
Imagine picking a left-back who did not offer ANYTHING going forward for your motm against one of the worst teams in the league. At home.
 

Bilbo

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Hmm. Your words suggest that you think he made the decision to hit the deck, which is diving.
Happens a thousand times a season. Its arguably cheating, but if I'm running at full speed and I know I'm going to get clipped, I'll do what I can to try to control how I fall.
 

gerdm07

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Happens a thousand times a season. Its arguably cheating, but if I'm running at full speed and I know I'm going to get clipped, I'll do what I can to try to control how I fall.
If you haven't played the game and if you played but you weren't much of a dribbler, you may not understand why players go down when there is minimal contact. The main reasons are injury prevention and, secondarily, to win free kicks/pks. A dribbler or runner is at his most vulnerable when he loses his balance and this is more so when you are near top speed. If you have your balance and you see a tackle coming you can hop out of the way or ride the tackle to escape injury. When unbalanced, you might not be able to react quick enough and your foot might be planted when the tackle comes. All good players learn this early if they want a long career.

Bruno had every right to go down because if he doesn't he is chasing the ball off balance which means he is vulnerable and he might not be able to recover to score.
 
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Isotope

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Finally got to watch the game late last night. Thought Ole nailed it with the lineup, though I'd picked Bailly over Lindelof, the former probably needed rest. Didn't think we were all that bad in the first half, just couldn't finish off chances and Watford pushed hard.

I thought Bruno really opened up our offense. There was a lot more movement with the ball - it seemed to me that team as a whole started taking more chances yesterday.

Great to see McTominay back on the field. We now have different options, because each of our midfielders has pros and cons, and we can now afford to rest someone each game. And Bruno hasn't been here long enough to fully integrate. Think about that.

Martial seemed looser than he has been, and James was much better on the left. Greenwood wants the ball and is taking good shots. Ighalo will score soon. More options.

Shaw was a beast, and with Williams so young, we're two deep!

For all the complaints against our defense, that's three consecutive clean sheets in the league (and five of of the last six in all comps), and our goal differential is now 4th best.

We're still in the FA Cup and Europa League, and sitting 5th in the league, 3 points behind Chelsea and 9 behind Leicester. Tasty stuff coming up!
Good man. There are as many positives as negatives. Why not just focus on positives.
 

TRUERED89

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Hmm. Your words suggest that you think he made the decision to hit the deck, which is diving.
Looking back at it, maybe it was. But the stupidity of the keeper pretty much made the decision inevitable for him to go down at the slightest of touch. And at full speed looked a nailed on pen.
 

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But my main concern is that we are becoming happy with mediocrity
There's a difference between becoming 'happy with mediocrity' and being patient with a coach who is rebuilding; Ole took over a huge mess and whilst it would have been great if the initial bounce had continued, it was never going to. A lot of deadwood/uncommited have gone, more need to and we still need 2-3 key signings to bring the squad into the shape needed for a top three challenge.

But have no doubt, we are on that journey, even if it is frustrating at times. Just think where the team would be without AWB, Maguire and Bruno F and also factor in the emergence of Mason G, who will only get better in the next year or two.

We've missed Pogba's creativity this season and the arrival of Bruno shows what a difference those types of skills make to the team - after a single game against Wolves where he was learning, suddenly he is triggering chances and looking dangerous - that was a great pass to Martial to split the Watford defence and it's not once a game, either; he also fed the simple ball for Mason G perfectly, to set him up to score.

Another good midfielder, a wide right player and possibly a striker will see us challenging hard - maybe next season, maybe the season afterwards.

Ole may not be the best coach in the world, but IMO, he's the coach we need now and his tough work is paying dividends, even though it feels like two steps forward, one back at times.
 

Buster15

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There's a difference between becoming 'happy with mediocrity' and being patient with a coach who is rebuilding; Ole took over a huge mess and whilst it would have been great if the initial bounce had continued, it was never going to. A lot of deadwood/uncommited have gone, more need to and we still need 2-3 key signings to bring the squad into the shape needed for a top three challenge.

But have no doubt, we are on that journey, even if it is frustrating at times. Just think where the team would be without AWB, Maguire and Bruno F and also factor in the emergence of Mason G, who will only get better in the next year or two.

We've missed Pogba's creativity this season and the arrival of Bruno shows what a difference those types of skills make to the team - after a single game against Wolves where he was learning, suddenly he is triggering chances and looking dangerous - that was a great pass to Martial to split the Watford defence and it's not once a game, either; he also fed the simple ball for Mason G perfectly, to set him up to score.

Another good midfielder, a wide right player and possibly a striker will see us challenging hard - maybe next season, maybe the season afterwards.

Ole may not be the best coach in the world, but IMO, he's the coach we need now and his tough work is paying dividends, even though it feels like two steps forward, one back at times.
That is a sound analysis and I don't disagree with most of it.

I am still in two minds about Ole.
I am happy with the recruitment side.
But it seems pretty clear that he has and is being given more time than his predecessors. Not that that is a bad thing.

I am less convinced about his coaching and tactical leadership.
In particular is he really good enough to take United back to the top.
I guess that we will have to wait and see about that.
 

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I am still in two minds about Ole.
I am happy with the recruitment side.
But it seems pretty clear that he has and is being given more time than his predecessors. Not that that is a bad thing.

I am less convinced about his coaching and tactical leadership.
In particular is he really good enough to take United back to the top.
I guess that we will have to wait and see about that.
I tend to agree with you, the jury is out on his coaching and tactical leadership, so we will have to wait and see how he develops - he is still very new to coaching at this level and it may or may not work out in the longer term.

My comment about he is the coach we need now is based on the fact that he has got stuck into sorting the squad out and made some decent additions; I trust him to recruit wisely in summer and also cut some more deadwood - after seven years of wandering about (at managerial level) I can live with this for the time being, as it is a far healthier approach than we've seen in recent years.
 

Fts 74

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I changed to Ole out after the Burnley horror show after being in for so long and I haven't changed my mind since.

I said previously he's done a lot of good in his time here and I'm hoping for a strong finish to the season with players coming back and dare I say it, us finding a bit of form.

For me, this summer is huge, do we trust Ole for the foreseeable or get someone else in?

It's a massive decision that could effect the next 5 years although if he wins EL(so qualifying for CL) or or gets 4th, he'll stay as that seems to have been the minimum requirement for all previous managers.

If that's the case, he'll have done very well considering all the problems we've had this season and I'll take my hat off to him and he would deserve our support.
 

Buster15

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I tend to agree with you, the jury is out on his coaching and tactical leadership, so we will have to wait and see how he develops - he is still very new to coaching at this level and it may or may not work out in the longer term.

My comment about he is the coach we need now is based on the fact that he has got stuck into sorting the squad out and made some decent additions; I trust him to recruit wisely in summer and also cut some more deadwood - after seven years of wandering about (at managerial level) I can live with this for the time being, as it is a far healthier approach than we've seen in recent years.
Yes. Nothing is guaranteed in football that is true.

As far as I am concerned, you have a much better chance if you recruit the best people. Guardiola and Klopp.

To be successful you need the whole package and Ole has a very long way to go to attain that level of competency.

He may recruit some of the best players, but the big question is can he use them optimally.
 

Fletchageddon

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Wait you don'tthink pogba wants the ball? He always has the most touches out of all our players when he plays. All the other stuff is just waffle to me. Pogba doesn't run less than any other player in the team, he's pretty much always in the top 6 for distance covered.
There's a difference. Pogba gets the ball, makes the pass, if it's not successful he loses the head. Bruno gets the pass off, if it's successful or not he's on the hunt again. He doesn't bollock the other player, he just gets on with the game.

Re the running I never said he doesn't track back. He covers the ground but his main focus is not getting the ball. It's like defending for appearances (statistics) sake.

It's the same with James and Martial, they make the runs but they aren't really defending as such.
 

mancan92

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There's a difference. Pogba gets the ball, makes the pass, if it's not successful he loses the head. Bruno gets the pass off, if it's successful or not he's on the hunt again. He doesn't bollock the other player, he just gets on with the game.

Re the running I never said he doesn't track back. He covers the ground but his main focus is not getting the ball. It's like defending for appearances (statistics) sake.

It's the same with James and Martial, they make the runs but they aren't really defending as such.
No he never loses his head. Pogba will try stuff all game even if it's not coming off.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys even watch pogba play. He has never not made a pass and lost his head......
 

Reducation

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If you haven't played the game and if you played but you weren't much of a dribbler, you may not understand why players go down when there is minimal contact. The main reasons are injury prevention and, secondarily, to win free kicks/pks. A dribbler or runner is at his most vulnerable when he loses his balance and this is more so when you are near top speed. If you have your balance and you see a tackle coming you can hop out of the way or ride the tackle to escape injury. When unbalanced, you might not be able to react quick enough and your foot might be planted when the tackle comes. All good players learn this early if they want a long career.

Bruno had every right to go down because if he doesn't he is chasing the ball off balance which means he is vulnerable and he might not be able to recover to score.
Looking back at it, maybe it was. But the stupidity of the keeper pretty much made the decision inevitable for him to go down at the slightest of touch. And at full speed looked a nailed on pen.
It's interesting to see so many words sort of acknowledge the dive, but never castigate the diver. This tale about avoiding injury is nonsense that was dreamt up after diving became entrenched firmly in the English game. The first time I noticed this silly excuse was when Arsenal's Eduardo dived blatantly while playing against Celtic. He was punished - rightly - but Arsenal appealed, and sadly for football, Eduardo was let off. Fernandes' penalty area dive was nothing at all to do with avoiding injury. He may have found a slight physical contact, but he wasn't tripped; he left both his feet behind himself, which is simply a blatant dive.
 

TRUERED89

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It's interesting to see so many words sort of acknowledge the dive, but never castigate the diver. This tale about avoiding injury is nonsense that was dreamt up after diving became entrenched firmly in the English game. The first time I noticed this silly excuse was when Arsenal's Eduardo dived blatantly while playing against Celtic. He was punished - rightly - but Arsenal appealed, and sadly for football, Eduardo was let off. Fernandes' penalty area dive was nothing at all to do with avoiding injury. He may have found a slight physical contact, but he wasn't tripped; he left both his feet behind himself, which is simply a blatant dive.
Well what do you want me to say ? Bruno is a diving scum bag that should have been booked and he shouldn’t have gone down? When the keeper gave him the chance to instigate a penalty. Plus it was hardly a Neymar/Ashley Young type ridiculous dive. Only in slow mo does it look a soft pen, I’m sure when you saw it live you thought it was the correct decision in that moment.
 

gerdm07

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It's interesting to see so many words sort of acknowledge the dive, but never castigate the diver. This tale about avoiding injury is nonsense that was dreamt up after diving became entrenched firmly in the English game. The first time I noticed this silly excuse was when Arsenal's Eduardo dived blatantly while playing against Celtic. He was punished - rightly - but Arsenal appealed, and sadly for football, Eduardo was let off. Fernandes' penalty area dive was nothing at all to do with avoiding injury. He may have found a slight physical contact, but he wasn't tripped; he left both his feet behind himself, which is simply a blatant dive.
Did you ever play the game and were you ever injured from a tackle?
 

Sea-Cow

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DDG - Weird how the whole game passed without Deeney shoulder charging him in the face...or you know, just standing vaguely near him while our defence do nothing about it.

Bissaka - Actually can't remember him doing much
LIndelof - I don't like when he's the last man and decides to 360 turn the opposition striker while holding them off, when they're about 3 times his fecking size. Just clear it
Maguire - The "I've just signed for Arsenal" traits were back today.
Shaw - Think he's been very good recently, although feck me in the post match interview I'm not sure if it was just the angle of the camera but he looked huge! His shoulders were literally taking up half the screen. He looked like an American Football player with their padding still on, except also it was someone parodeeing an American football player by wearing overly large padding. Big shoulders.

Fred - After the first few times the opposition have succesfully barged you off the ball, maybe don't just stand there waiting for the opposition to try and barge you off the ball
Matic - Had a good second half. First half he basically just stood there watching Fred.
Fernandes - He just looks the part. His productivity in 3 games is about what you get from Lingard/Mata/Pereira in a season. I feel mean saying it but it's not even an exageration.

James - Looked better today. Not sure why you would keep giving the fastest white man in the world loads of room to run into.
Martial - Baffling player. Clearly would be a very good striker if he spent a bit more time playing as one. Can't play a 3 yard pass to Fernandes but can score a goal that was basically taking the piss out of the entire opposition team.
Greenwood - The king of the self created half chance.

VAR - This new thing where teams essentially aren't allowed to score against us is quite useful
Someone please fine Noodlehair a week's wages if he ever misses a post-match player rating.

I especially like the line for Fred. I swear he was barged off the ball five times in the first half.
 

Fletchageddon

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No he never loses his head. Pogba will try stuff all game even if it's not coming off.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys even watch pogba play. He has never not made a pass and lost his head......
He doesn't grab the game by the scruff of the neck. Is what I'm trying to say. He will quote visibly be annoyed with people rather than just getting on with the game. He doesn't really want to be here and it shows. Bruno does and that shows too.

He's a fine player when he wants to be but he's not the player we need now. We don't have the luxury of carrying anyone. We need 11 fully committed players.
 

mancan92

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He doesn't grab the game by the scruff of the neck. Is what I'm trying to say. He will quote visibly be annoyed with people rather than just getting on with the game. He doesn't really want to be here and it shows. Bruno does and that shows too.

He's a fine player when he wants to be but he's not the player we need now. We don't have the luxury of carrying anyone. We need 11 fully committed players.
Again that is not true. If we are in trouble we do nothing but give the ball to pogba and hope he does something. That has our style of play for a couple years. He doesn't hide and shouts at his team mates to do better or push up exactly the same way Bruno does. Only difference is Bruno is a new shiny toy and everyone wants to hate pogba.
 

Gasolin

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I don't hate Pogba at all. I just know he needs two guys to tidy up after him. He is half assed when he tracks back. He sometimes wants to play and sometimes does not. Bruno wants the ball all the time, he wants to run the game. He tracks back to get the ball. He's got the mentality.

The way this team plays we can't afford to carry anyone in midfield. James and Martial are desperate when they track back. Add Pogba to that and we will just get picked apart.

Bruno is Pogbas replacement. That's why he wasn't signed in the summer. It's kind of obvious. The two of them playing together is a lovely idea and would be brilliant in FM/FIFA. It probably won't happen in real life.
No I don't think so, I think we want to play with Bruno and Pogba, but initially, we thought Lingard or Pereira could be back ups for Pogba. We are not playing with just one world star player, so it's easy to imagine both Bruno and Pogba are in Ole's plan so far.
 

Fletchageddon

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No I don't think so, I think we want to play with Bruno and Pogba, but initially, we thought Lingard or Pereira could be back ups for Pogba. We are not playing with just one world star player, so it's easy to imagine both Bruno and Pogba are in Ole's plan so far.
Seeing today how he played Fred quite far forward you could be right. I don't think it will be Pogba for long but maybe he will appear towards the end of the season. To me Mata needs to play today instead of greenwood. I
 

Man of the Match

Bruno Fernandes image Bruno Fernandes 90% of 404 votes

Runners-up

Player Ratings

6.6 Total Average Rating

Highest Rated Player

Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 382 ratings.

Score Predictions

217,11,17
  • Man Utd win
  • Watford win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 29% Man Utd 2:0 Watford
  • 20% Man Utd 3:0 Watford
  • 16% Man Utd 2:1 Watford
  • 10% Man Utd 3:1 Watford
  • 5% Man Utd 1:0 Watford
  • 5% Man Utd 4:0 Watford
  • 5% Man Utd 1:1 Watford
  • 2% Man Utd 1:2 Watford
  • 2% Man Utd 5:0 Watford
  • 1% Man Utd 0:0 Watford
  • 1% Man Utd 0:2 Watford
  • 1% Man Utd 2:2 Watford
  • 0% Man Utd 4:1 Watford
  • 0% Man Utd 4:2 Watford
  • 0% Man Utd 0:5 Watford
  • 0% Man Utd 1:3 Watford
Compiled from 245 predictions.
Show more results Score Predictions League Table

Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Watford
Possession
58% 42%
Shots
21 7
Shots on Target
9 2
Corners
3 5
Fouls
6 15

Referee

Martin Atkinson