[Garethw]

I never mentioned Mourinho - I mentioned Moyes and LvG.

Of course Moyes isn't a bad manager - in the right kind of club. He was perfect for Everton, but you seem to forget he was a disaster at United, a disaster at Sociedad, a disaster at Sunderland and a disaster at West Ham in his first spell there. Before he took charge at West Ham for the 2nd time - he had won 56 games in 5.5 seasons, a win percentage of under 30 - and that includes one year at United. So maybe you are right - maybe OGS would not have taken West Ham to where they are today, but I can guarantee that Moyes would never take United to where they are today, so that goes both ways.

But just to clarify - you think we should have hired a more experienced manager who has won trophies, rather than Solskjaer ?

I had no issue in Solskjaer taking over on an interim basis. But Woodward should have stuck to his word and waited until the summer before making a permanent managerial appointment.

I do not personally think that Solskjaer or his entire coaching staff are anywhere near good enough.

Manchester United should be appointing the very best managers out there. That is why appointing Moyes made zero sense to me.

The LVG and Mourinho appointments I could understand as they were proven winners, albeit on the decline when they came to us.

The Solskjaer appointment on the other hand, makes zero sense to me.

 

[Leftback99]

This was a game we were supposed to lose. A team that decided to sit deep and deny us the chance to counter. A team that has an excellent record at scoring from set-pieces (which we tend to be crap at defending) A team that was fresher than us, having had more time to recover from their last match. And a team that’s been in good form and recently pushed City all the way.

The writing was on the wall. To win as comfortably as we did - with our keeper not needing to make a save - is actually very impressive. So, yet again, I’m finding the redcafe negativity very hard to understand. If you can’t even enjoy winning games what’s the fecking point?!

It's been a really good week but you wouldn't know it on here. I'm pretty sure nearly everyone would have taken 6 points in the league and a draw with Milan if offered last Sunday but you would think we'd just lost all 3.

 

[lysglimt]

I had no issue in Solskjaer taking over on an interim basis. But Woodward should have stuck to his word and waited until the summer before making a permanent managerial appointment.

I do not personally think that Solskjaer or his entire coaching staff are anywhere near good enough.

Manchester United should be appointing the very best managers out there. That is why appointing Moyes made zero sense to me.

The LVG and Mourinho appointments I could understand as they were proven winners, albeit on the decline when they came to us.

The Solskjaer appointment on the other hand, makes zero sense to me.

Ok - fair enough.

 

[hubbuh]

Please tell me you didn't really think we could win the league this year? We are 14 points off a great Man City team that could make history this year with a quadruple. That is acceptable to me this year and next year, with a couple of key additions, we should be able to compete with City and a full strength Liverpool.

Manchester United does not have a divine right to win titles and always compete for titles, period.

Who on earth said we should have won the title this year? I certainly didn't. But the reason we are so far off City is our own damn fault in the first place. We just beat them 2 nil at their place. The reason we're as far behind as we are is because in the past 6 weeks or so we've lost to relegation fodder Sheffield United (at home), drawn to West Brom and Crystal Palace, and threw 2 points away to Everton in the last kick of the game. We also completely bungled what was basically a guaranteed place in the last 16 of the CL. There are bigs questions surrounding Ole and how we perform in the cups and in our remaining games need to be answered before we even consider next season.

 

[Brightonian]

This was a game we were supposed to lose. A team that decided to sit deep and deny us the chance to counter. A team that has an excellent record at scoring from set-pieces (which we tend to be crap at defending) A team that was fresher than us, having had more time to recover from their last match. And a team that’s been in good form and recently pushed City all the way.

The writing was on the wall. To win as comfortably as we did - with our keeper not needing to make a save - is actually very impressive. So, yet again, I’m finding the redcafe negativity very hard to understand. If you can’t even enjoy winning games what’s the fecking point?!

I just seem to be agreeing with you everywhere today but hear hear. You didn't even mention that half our attacking players were injured.

 

[podurban2]

This was a game we were supposed to lose. A team that decided to sit deep and deny us the chance to counter. A team that has an excellent record at scoring from set-pieces (which we tend to be crap at defending) A team that was fresher than us, having had more time to recover from their last match. And a team that’s been in good form and recently pushed City all the way.

The writing was on the wall. To win as comfortably as we did - with our keeper not needing to make a save - is actually very impressive. So, yet again, I’m finding the redcafe negativity very hard to understand. If you can’t even enjoy winning games what’s the fecking point?!

I’d like to think the negative ones are few but loud. Personally I couldn’t be happier with three points! And looking forward to next season with Ole as manager.

 

[bsCallout]

OK performance in a game I didn't expect us to win. Fantastic result though.

Can't wait for Pogba to be back, and Cavani.

 

[gerdm07]

Who on earth said we should have won the title this year? I certainly didn't. But the reason we are so far off City is our own damn fault in the first place. We just beat them 2 nil at their place. The reason we're as far behind as we are is because in the past 6 weeks or so we've lost to relegation fodder Sheffield United (at home), drawn to West Brom and Crystal Palace, and threw 2 points away to Everton in the last kick of the game. We also completely bungled what was basically a guaranteed place in the last 16 of the CL. There are bigs questions surrounding Ole and how we perform in the cups and in our remaining games need to be answered before we even consider next season.

You said "Since when was finishing 2nd acceptable at United?"

This implies you are not happy with 2nd and the only step up is 1st. What am I missing here?

We were never guaranteed a place in the CL 16.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Did we like hit the post 3 times in the game? I think we didn't play all that well considering West Ham were trash. They invited us into their half, sat very deep and hardly pressed us on the ball and still we played at snail's pace. We could've easily scored a couple in the first half and then thrown Diallo and Shola into the mix for Bruno and James and played a better game but we didn't really go at them. I know it seems too critical of me but that's how I saw it. We were given all the space in the world except in the final third and our passes were slow and sometimes shabby at the top. It is still a good result, West Ham United scored and Man United won the game. I hope we get the players back from injury, we seriously need the Pogba from January back and quickly.

 

[hubbuh]

You said "Since when was finishing 2nd acceptable at United?"

This implies you are not happy with 2nd and the only step up is 1st. What am I missing here?

We were never guaranteed a place in the CL 16.

Because you explicitly stated everyone should 'jump on the bandwagon'? I'm not happy with second if we're 14 points behind the leaders, hence my not wanting to 'jump on the bandwagon'. Is it that complicated?

Oh give over re. the CL catastrophe. No one is guaranteed anything but what we did was a complete cock up. You can back Ole but still admit that ffs.

 

[Foxbatt]

Still no one can answer why Ole keeps on persisting with this defensive/negative double-pivot system?

It's not the players that he played. He has no one else but was too scared to push McTominay forward. I think Ole is a lot more cautious manager than people think. Counter attacking itself alone is a defensive action. The same with Moyes.

 

[Foxbatt]

Who was Maguire telling to "do it fecking quick!" while defending our box? I want to see more of that leadership from him in particular.

AWB. The last time he showed that " leadership" he was called a fecking knobhead by Rashford.

 

[Raveneye]

Neither Fred and especially not McTominay are reliable defensive midfielders. Solksjaer doesn't trust either to be left totally alone while the other bombs forward. Pogba offers so much attacking prowess that it is worth giving him more license (and even then Pogba s expected to ping long passes when he can and carry the ball when need be) but McTominay isn't quite there yet, hence the caution. And it worked, with West Ham getting zero shots on target.

The defensive double pivot was needed today not because of West Ham, but because of our injuries. And it worked as well as it could. We still dominated, had several good chances, hit the post, and were the only team going to win. Glad to see Mason have his first good game leading the line as a no. 9.

 

[big rons sovereign]

So let me get this straight, yes last night we beat serial bus parker and crossing fanatic David Moyes' West Ham.
But we're not happy about it, seemingly it wasn't a good enough victory, own goals are unacceptable and the manager should be sacked for not only winning but also not conceding any goals.

We're Manchester United and all must tremble before us, multiple goal victories are an absolute given, and substitutions should be made when demanded by the vastly knowledgeable members of the redcafe bed wetting committee, regardless of necessity or availability.

Our manager is utterly clueless after defeat and even more clueless after victories, as the defeated opposition were clearly either shit, ravaged with injuries or ravaged with injuries and shit.

Comparisons between the manager and previous managers are strictly forbidden, unless of course it's to prove just how clueless and deserving of the sack he is. (The 4 years between fergie joining and winning a trophy don't count because....reasons)

Although previous managers have spent a fortune on dogshit, this is the current managers fault for not stopping them spending it despite not being employed by United and being a different country.
Trying to clear out all the dogshit and balancing the squad also makes him shit and is a very sackable offence.

Smiling, just no. Never under any circumstances should a man smile, ever. Certainly not after a defeat and absolutely not after victory, are you mad?
Not even out of common courtesy to colleagues or opposition.

Now I've cleared some of that up, I may be able to enjoy my time as a supporter of my lifelong chosen club.
Or not, as I'm not sure enjoyment is allowed.

 

[0le]

Good win but Ole's lack of substitutions is really worrisome.

 

[DSG]

I hate to admit it because he is so inconsistent, but we really miss Pogba. When fielding both Pogba and Bruno, the West Ham park the bus tactic doesn’t really work. With McFred, it’s just difficult to create chances. Nice win though!

 

[Hughie77]

Luke Shaw motm

Totally agree

 

[Hughie77]

So let me get this straight, yes last night we beat serial bus parker and crossing fanatic David Moyes' West Ham.
But we're not happy about it, seemingly it wasn't a good enough victory, own goals are unacceptable and the manager should be sacked for not only winning but also not conceding any goals.

We're Manchester United and all must tremble before us, multiple goal victories are an absolute given, and substitutions should be made when demanded by the vastly knowledgeable members of the redcafe bed wetting committee, regardless of necessity or availability.

Our manager is utterly clueless after defeat and even more clueless after victories, as the defeated opposition were clearly either shit, ravaged with injuries or ravaged with injuries and shit.

Comparisons between the manager and previous managers are strictly forbidden, unless of course it's to prove just how clueless and deserving of the sack he is. (The 4 years between fergie joining and winning a trophy don't count because....reasons)

Although previous managers have spent a fortune on dogshit, this is the current managers fault for not stopping them spending it despite not being employed by United and being a different country.
Trying to clear out all the dogshit and balancing the squad also makes him shit and is a very sackable offence.

Smiling, just no. Never under any circumstances should a man smile, ever. Certainly not after a defeat and absolutely not after victory, are you mad?
Not even out of common courtesy to colleagues or opposition.

Now I've cleared some of that up, I may be able to enjoy my time as a supporter of my lifelong chosen club.
Or not, as I'm not sure enjoyment is allowed.

Spot on mate, nice post.

 

[Hughie77]

West ham got what they deserved, I thought we were far far the better side, most just see OG , more than that to game, Shaw immense, Maguire , Lindelof very good again, James had another decent game, bar for Fabianski it would be a bigger margin, him and Rice were there best players.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Maguire and Shaw were both on it big time. Most were pretty mediocre including Bruno. Then some poor performances such as AWB, which wasn't too bad, but not normal for his level. Better make up for it against AC Milan or we'll be out.

 

[gerdm07]

Because you explicitly stated everyone should 'jump on the bandwagon'? I'm not happy with second if we're 14 points behind the leaders, hence my not wanting to 'jump on the bandwagon'. Is it that complicated?

Oh give over re. the CL catastrophe. No one is guaranteed anything but what we did was a complete cock up. You can back Ole but still admit that ffs.

Okay, you can remain a miserable critic all because you don't think Ole is good enough even though we keep improving.

We are out of the CL because Matic forgot he was the last defender, Martial missed a sitter, DDG doesn't come off his line, and Ole got the tactics wrong vs RBL. I'm pretty sure similar things have happened to SAF, Mourinho and other managers.

 

[United Junkie]

Not the best performance but nothing terrible. A good 3 points against a team that showed good spirit after conceding.

Shaw excellent. Maguire and Lindelof brilliant as usual. Bruno and McT were decent too.

I'm a bit worried about Mason's inability to score if we're going to play him up top. Why are all our strikers like this?

Because there is no hairdryer treatment. And the guy who used to practice it is living his life drinking French wine. Deservedly of course.

 

[hubbuh]

Okay, you can remain a miserable critic all because you don't think Ole is good enough even though we keep improving.

We are out of the CL because Matic forgot he was the last defender, Martial missed a sitter, DDG doesn't come off his line, and Ole got the tactics wrong vs RBL. I'm pretty sure similar things have happened to SAF, Mourinho and other managers.

I'm a miserable critic because I'm not all in on the Ole bandwagon? Give over ya softie. I'm not even saying Ole out! I'm just exercising caution and don't think we should be offering a new contract until we see how the season pans out.

Yeah, but Fergie had earned credit so was afforded a cock ups. Ole isn't quite there yet, is he?

 

[Gator Nate]

So let me get this straight, yes last night we beat serial bus parker and crossing fanatic David Moyes' West Ham.
But we're not happy about it, seemingly it wasn't a good enough victory, own goals are unacceptable and the manager should be sacked for not only winning but also not conceding any goals.

We're Manchester United and all must tremble before us, multiple goal victories are an absolute given, and substitutions should be made when demanded by the vastly knowledgeable members of the redcafe bed wetting committee, regardless of necessity or availability.

Our manager is utterly clueless after defeat and even more clueless after victories, as the defeated opposition were clearly either shit, ravaged with injuries or ravaged with injuries and shit.

Comparisons between the manager and previous managers are strictly forbidden, unless of course it's to prove just how clueless and deserving of the sack he is. (The 4 years between fergie joining and winning a trophy don't count because....reasons)

Although previous managers have spent a fortune on dogshit, this is the current managers fault for not stopping them spending it despite not being employed by United and being a different country.
Trying to clear out all the dogshit and balancing the squad also makes him shit and is a very sackable offence.

Smiling, just no. Never under any circumstances should a man smile, ever. Certainly not after a defeat and absolutely not after victory, are you mad?
Not even out of common courtesy to colleagues or opposition.

Now I've cleared some of that up, I may be able to enjoy my time as a supporter of my lifelong chosen club.
Or not, as I'm not sure enjoyment is allowed.

Perusing my checklist... glancing back and forth...

Oh, and Player X obviously should have been in the Starting XI over Player Y. We'd have had loads of goals then.

Other than that, I think you got 'em all.

You really do have to wonder sometimes.

We've only lost 4 league games this year. City have lost 3. Chelsea have lost 6.

We've won 16 (of 29) league games this year. City have won 22 (of 30). Leicester have won 17.

I think the real problem is all the draws. Fullham and Brighton have 11, we have 9 along with Chelsea, Burnley, and West Brom.

The biggest difference between us and City at the moment, and lots of people admit it even when complaining about Ole, is a talented bench. While ours is significantly better than last year's squad, City have loads of starters waiting for a space in the starting XI.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Perusing my checklist... glancing back and forth...

Oh, and Player X obviously should have been in the Starting XI over Player Y. We'd have had loads of goals then.

Other than that, I think you got 'em all.

You really do have to wonder sometimes.

We've only lost 4 league games this year. City have lost 3. Chelsea have lost 6.

We've won 16 (of 29) league games this year. City have won 22 (of 30). Leicester have won 17.

I think the real problem is all the draws. Fullham and Brighton have 11, we have 9 along with Chelsea, Burnley, and West Brom.

The biggest difference between us and City at the moment, and lots of people admit it even when complaining about Ole, is a talented bench. While ours is significantly better than last year's squad, City have loads of starters waiting for a space in the starting XI.

Dammit, I knew I was missing something.

Yeah, I really can't get my head round it all. I mean, can you imagine if we lost 6 in a row at home like the vermin have?
This place would explode.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Perusing my checklist... glancing back and forth...

Oh, and Player X obviously should have been in the Starting XI over Player Y. We'd have had loads of goals then.

Other than that, I think you got 'em all.

You really do have to wonder sometimes.

We've only lost 4 league games this year. City have lost 3. Chelsea have lost 6.

We've won 16 (of 29) league games this year. City have won 22 (of 30). Leicester have won 17.

I think the real problem is all the draws. Fullham and Brighton have 11, we have 9 along with Chelsea, Burnley, and West Brom.

The biggest difference between us and City at the moment, and lots of people admit it even when complaining about Ole, is a talented bench. While ours is significantly better than last year's squad, City have loads of starters waiting for a space in the starting XI.

I agree that your last point is a very good one. I like Dan James, but a huge difference between the 2 sides....they have Mahrez and we have Dan. That, and they are technically so much better on the ball in most areas of the squad.

 

[Bilbo]

I'm just exercising caution and don't think we should be offering a new contract until we see how the season pans out.

On the surface what you are saying is totally right, in a way. This season could still go horribly wrong.

I think what we all need to understand from this is that this club doesn't want to be firing managers. It has happened and will happen if things become untenable, but we are obviously far from that right now. Everything we are doing is with the longer term in mind, and that includes the manager who is buying into this plan and (who knows) has possibly been the main driving force behind it too.

Its obvious that he is highly regarded within the club, and people on here need to get on board with that because he will definitely be in charge next season and quite possibly for some time beyond that too.

 

[Old Ma Crow]

AWB. The last time he showed that " leadership" he was called a fecking knobhead by Rashford.

Yeah the stay onside one.. He’s had a go at Shaw too iirc. All justifiable IMO as long he’s pulling his weight too, which he seems to be these days.

 

[alexthelion]

This was a game we were supposed to lose. A team that decided to sit deep and deny us the chance to counter. A team that has an excellent record at scoring from set-pieces (which we tend to be crap at defending) A team that was fresher than us, having had more time to recover from their last match. And a team that’s been in good form and recently pushed City all the way.

The writing was on the wall. To win as comfortably as we did - with our keeper not needing to make a save - is actually very impressive. So, yet again, I’m finding the redcafe negativity very hard to understand. If you can’t even enjoy winning games what’s the fecking point?!

Oh dear, oh dear, common sense on the caf.

Whatever next?

 

[alexthelion]

So let me get this straight, yes last night we beat serial bus parker and crossing fanatic David Moyes' West Ham.
But we're not happy about it, seemingly it wasn't a good enough victory, own goals are unacceptable and the manager should be sacked for not only winning but also not conceding any goals.

We're Manchester United and all must tremble before us, multiple goal victories are an absolute given, and substitutions should be made when demanded by the vastly knowledgeable members of the redcafe bed wetting committee, regardless of necessity or availability.

Our manager is utterly clueless after defeat and even more clueless after victories, as the defeated opposition were clearly either shit, ravaged with injuries or ravaged with injuries and shit.

Comparisons between the manager and previous managers are strictly forbidden, unless of course it's to prove just how clueless and deserving of the sack he is. (The 4 years between fergie joining and winning a trophy don't count because....reasons)

Although previous managers have spent a fortune on dogshit, this is the current managers fault for not stopping them spending it despite not being employed by United and being a different country.
Trying to clear out all the dogshit and balancing the squad also makes him shit and is a very sackable offence.

Smiling, just no. Never under any circumstances should a man smile, ever. Certainly not after a defeat and absolutely not after victory, are you mad?
Not even out of common courtesy to colleagues or opposition.

Now I've cleared some of that up, I may be able to enjoy my time as a supporter of my lifelong chosen club.
Or not, as I'm not sure enjoyment is allowed.

Never a truer word written.

 

[RashyForPM]

So let me get this straight, yes last night we beat serial bus parker and crossing fanatic David Moyes' West Ham.
But we're not happy about it, seemingly it wasn't a good enough victory, own goals are unacceptable and the manager should be sacked for not only winning but also not conceding any goals.

We're Manchester United and all must tremble before us, multiple goal victories are an absolute given, and substitutions should be made when demanded by the vastly knowledgeable members of the redcafe bed wetting committee, regardless of necessity or availability.

Our manager is utterly clueless after defeat and even more clueless after victories, as the defeated opposition were clearly either shit, ravaged with injuries or ravaged with injuries and shit.

Comparisons between the manager and previous managers are strictly forbidden, unless of course it's to prove just how clueless and deserving of the sack he is. (The 4 years between fergie joining and winning a trophy don't count because....reasons)

Although previous managers have spent a fortune on dogshit, this is the current managers fault for not stopping them spending it despite not being employed by United and being a different country.
Trying to clear out all the dogshit and balancing the squad also makes him shit and is a very sackable offence.

Smiling, just no. Never under any circumstances should a man smile, ever. Certainly not after a defeat and absolutely not after victory, are you mad?
Not even out of common courtesy to colleagues or opposition.

Now I've cleared some of that up, I may be able to enjoy my time as a supporter of my lifelong chosen club.
Or not, as I'm not sure enjoyment is allowed.

It’s the nature of this forum. More people complained about the ref rather than praise the team after we beat Southampton 9-0.

 

[Foxbatt]

I agree that your last point is a very good one. I like Dan James, but a huge difference between the 2 sides....they have Mahrez and we have Dan. That, and they are technically so much better on the ball in most areas of the squad.

Also their coaching made them better team players. Anyone who knows anything about how Cruijff did it and how people like Bielsa, and Pep do it should know that.

 

[Rossa]

So let me get this straight, yes last night we beat serial bus parker and crossing fanatic David Moyes' West Ham.
But we're not happy about it, seemingly it wasn't a good enough victory, own goals are unacceptable and the manager should be sacked for not only winning but also not conceding any goals.

We're Manchester United and all must tremble before us, multiple goal victories are an absolute given, and substitutions should be made when demanded by the vastly knowledgeable members of the redcafe bed wetting committee, regardless of necessity or availability.

Our manager is utterly clueless after defeat and even more clueless after victories, as the defeated opposition were clearly either shit, ravaged with injuries or ravaged with injuries and shit.

Comparisons between the manager and previous managers are strictly forbidden, unless of course it's to prove just how clueless and deserving of the sack he is. (The 4 years between fergie joining and winning a trophy don't count because....reasons)

Although previous managers have spent a fortune on dogshit, this is the current managers fault for not stopping them spending it despite not being employed by United and being a different country.
Trying to clear out all the dogshit and balancing the squad also makes him shit and is a very sackable offence.

Smiling, just no. Never under any circumstances should a man smile, ever. Certainly not after a defeat and absolutely not after victory, are you mad?
Not even out of common courtesy to colleagues or opposition.

Now I've cleared some of that up, I may be able to enjoy my time as a supporter of my lifelong chosen club.
Or not, as I'm not sure enjoyment is allowed.

Nice post, newbie btw, can you still be a newbie with almost 2000 posts?

No good games are played when one team is parking the bus like WH do. It's a terrible team to play against and watch. Teams like that definitely don't deserve top four.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Nice post, newbie btw, can you still be a newbie with almost 2000 posts?

No good games are played when one team is parking the bus like WH do. It's a terrible team to play against and watch. Teams like that definitely don't deserve top four.

I have that many posts?
I suppose I've never really bothered putting much content into posts until fairly recently, mostly just off the cuff one liners.
Every now and then I have something to say.

 

[The Mitcher]

Neither Fred and especially not McTominay are reliable defensive midfielders. Solksjaer doesn't trust either to be left totally alone while the other bombs forward. Pogba offers so much attacking prowess that it is worth giving him more license (and even then Pogba s expected to ping long passes when he can and carry the ball when need be) but McTominay isn't quite there yet, hence the caution. And it worked, with West Ham getting zero shots on target.

The defensive double pivot was needed today not because of West Ham, but because of our injuries. And it worked as well as it could. We still dominated, had several good chances, hit the post, and were the only team going to win. Glad to see Mason have his first good game leading the line as a no. 9.

That's not a lack of trust, that is common sense. When one midfielder goes up, the other stays back. We play with both our fullbacks pressing high up the pitch, there has to be someone to be that third man back. If we get caught on the counter, there's no one but the CBs potentially outnumbered.

 

[Jules_T]

I have that many posts?
I suppose I've never really bothered putting much content into posts until fairly recently, mostly just off the cuff one liners.
Every now and then I have something to say.

9 likes for you.
Come on scouts, just one more here!

 

[Tarrou]

I didn't watch the match but in the highlights I saw West Ham didn't have one chance of note

we had a bunch of good positions which we mucked up as per usual really

but a surprisingly comfortable game based on the highlights I saw

 

[Raveneye]

That's not a lack of trust, that is common sense. When one midfielder goes up, the other stays back. We play with both our fullbacks pressing high up the pitch, there has to be someone to be that third man back. If we get caught on the counter, there's no one but the CBs potentially outnumbered.

??? I think we both agree that Solksjaer's double pivot system ideally has one of the pivot being allowed to go forward more and the other covers the defense. So I'm not sure how "Solksjaer doesn't trust Fred or McTominay to be the defensive pivot by themselves" conflicts with what you're saying.

 

[The Mitcher]

??? I think we both agree that Solksjaer's double pivot system ideally has one of the pivot being allowed to go forward more and the other covers the defense. So I'm not sure how "Solksjaer doesn't trust Fred or McTominay to be the defensive pivot by themselves" conflicts with what you're saying.

Even in 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 none of the midfielders all go up at he same time.

 

[Raveneye]

Even in 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 none of the midfielders all go up at he same time.

Again, I'm not sure how this conflicts with what I said, since I never suggested that Fred and McTominay are both supposed to bomb forward. I said neither one is trusted to hold the defensive pivot position by themselves when they play together.