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Manchester United 3:0 West Ham United

Post-match discussion


Sun, 04 February 2024

SonOfFergie

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Strangely good performance. :) Some crisp passing. Hojlund goal masterfully taken. Martinez injury a big worry. Bruno not wasteful. Rashford not moody. But what I would like to emphasize is how Shaw bullied Kudus who tore us to shreds in previous game. For 95% of the time Shaw had him in his pocket with physical dominant display. The other 5% the rest of the team was aware and helped him when things got dangerous. All in all a good solid game from the team. Let's build on that.
 
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If you honestly believe that, great. I don’t think it makes a huge difference i.e. if Garnacho was Antony’s level but right footed, he’d be just as ineffective.
Put it this way: Rashford for expample is twice the player Antony is and is just as bad on the right 9/10 times. Thus 'being more effective than Antony' alone isn't reason enough to better Antony there.

And when Rashford is in his "fish monger" mode on the left he is just as ineffective as right wing Antony on a bad day. Thanks to offering neither width nor creativity due to cutting in only to shoot or get into positions to score. Garnacho was beginning to emulate their example till the switch to the right. Currently we have no winger offering what he does on that natural side, without the loss of goal threat. He is also currently pretty unique in the league as a natural side wide player
 

Buster15

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Strangely good performance. :) Some crisp passing. Hojlund goal masterfully taken. Martinez injury a big worry. Bruno not wasteful. Rashford not moody. But what I would like to emphasize is how Shaw bullied Kudus who tore us to shreds in previous game. For 95% of the time Shaw had him in his pocket with physical dominant display. The other 5% the rest of the team was aware and helped him when things got dangerous. All in all a good solid game from the team. Let's build on that.
Yes indeed. I certainly agree with you about Shaw. Garnacho stole the headlines with his 2 goals. And Martinez was great but a bit silly to come back on after his knee injury.

So I gave the MoM to Shaw because of an outstanding performance both in defence and attack. He is in my opinion the outstanding LB in England. Top player.
 

Withnail

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I don’t think he did get bailed out by Dalot, they just blasted over
:lol: You’re right. 48th minute. He blasted it high.

Dalot saved our bacon on other occasions.

Maguire let them in twice. Once they blast over from a tight enough angle and then the second time he misjudged a ball over the top and was left running through treacle trying to get back. Dalot busted a gut to get across and block the shot.

He was decent aside from that, but always has a mistake in him. I don't see any of Varane/Evans/Lindelof/Maguire being reliable enough to be first choice next season and we've no left-footed back up to Martinez, so we probably need to bring in two quality CBs in the Summer which won't be easy.
 

tomaldinho1

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Put it this way: Rashford for expample is twice the player Antony is and is just as bad on the right 9/10 times. Thus 'being more effective than Antony' alone isn't reason enough to better Antony there.

And when Rashford is in his "fish monger" mode on the left he is just as ineffective as right wing Antony on a bad day. Thanks to offering neither width nor creativity due to cutting in only to shoot or get into positions to score. Garnacho was beginning to emulate their example till the switch to the right. Currently we have no winger offering what he does on that natural side, without the loss of goal threat. He is also currently pretty unique in the league as a natural side wide player
I'm not sure about this. Garnacho on the right has the strength (which I didn't know he had until he rattled the bar the other week from the RW) of being two footed. Ironically, contrary to what you're saying, the threat he carries is that he still does come inside (2/4 goals from the Right have been longer range left footed shots) but obviously defenders can't guarantee he will i.e. with Antony. He's also more dynamic than Antony which is the latter's real weakness, he's just too slow. Case in point, Rashford has played 2 full games on the right and even out of form has 1 goal.

If you look at Garnacho's goals form that side, he's scored with his right foot twice on the counter. Both the goal versus Villa and last one against WHUM were similar - on the break, ball played to him and a relatively simple finish each time. The longer range goals from his left foot, cutting in from the right are what we have missed. If you look at his heatmap he's not playing like an RM or RW either, so ETH is still asking him (or he's just doing it) to cut inside and create the overlap when we're attacking and the opponent has players behind the ball. The difference is Antony would get the ball in a lot of decent situations on the right but they would fizzle out, now Garnacho is actually causing more threat and getting a few goals.

He can still be a lot better, particularly regarding making simple passes to assist players - he does get the blinkers on when near goal - but the potential is there.
 

Maticmaker

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He was decent aside from that, but always has a mistake in him.
Yes, and on two other specific occasions Maguire thwarted dangerous West Ham counters with determined tackling, but his speed on the turn is always going to be his problem.
 
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I'm not sure about this. Garnacho on the right has the strength (which I didn't know he had until he rattled the bar the other week from the RW) of being two footed. Ironically, contrary to what you're saying, the threat he carries is that he still does come inside (2/4 goals from the Right have been longer range left footed shots) but obviously defenders can't guarantee he will i.e. with Antony. He's also more dynamic than Antony which is the latter's real weakness, he's just too slow. Case in point, Rashford has played 2 full games on the right and even out of form has 1 goal.

If you look at Garnacho's goals form that side, he's scored with his right foot twice on the counter. Both the goal versus Villa and last one against WHUM were similar - on the break, ball played to him and a relatively simple finish each time. The longer range goals from his left foot, cutting in from the right are what we have missed. If you look at his heatmap he's not playing like an RM or RW either, so ETH is still asking him (or he's just doing it) to cut inside and create the overlap when we're attacking and the opponent has players behind the ball. The difference is Antony would get the ball in a lot of decent situations on the right but they would fizzle out, now Garnacho is actually causing more threat and getting a few goals.

He can still be a lot better, particularly regarding making simple passes to assist players - he does get the blinkers on when near goal - but the potential is there.
We are largely on the same page. For me Garnacho carries more threat on the right because the threat of him going on the outside is real. Most fullbacks are used to cut in Merchants or wingers playing with their strongest foot inside. Furthermore unlike a Rashford he is super comfortable playing off his natural side
 

mitchmouse

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Maguire let them in twice. Once they blast over from a tight enough angle and then the second time he misjudged a ball over the top and was left running through treacle trying to get back. Dalot busted a gut to get across and block the shot.

He was decent aside from that, but always has a mistake in him. I don't see any of Varane/Evans/Lindelof/Maguire being reliable enough to be first choice next season and we've no left-footed back up to Martinez, so we probably need to bring in two quality CBs in the Summer which won't be easy.
Varane if he stays uninjured is still world class - he reads the game better than others. I'd keep Lindelof too - he has done a pretty good job when needed this season and deserves a chance to play withouyt having to cary Mr Nine Point Turn/Speed of a Snail Maguire
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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Varane, Lindelof and Maguire been on the sidelines in recovery so this could be a disaster until they are all fully up to game speed. Varane might never be as he will just get hurt again
 

Withnail

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Varane if he stays uninjured is still world class - he reads the game better than others. I'd keep Lindelof too - he has done a pretty good job when needed this season and deserves a chance to play withouyt having to cary Mr Nine Point Turn/Speed of a Snail Maguire
I don't have as much faith in Lindelof as you. He's been here long enough that he's not going to turn into a world beater. He's fine as a squad option so I'm not saying we should get rid of him too.

That's a big if on Varane. The reason I'm saying we need two is because we can't rely on Varane to be fit. He's only capable of 20 - 25 games a season.
 

Red in STL

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I don't have as much faith in Lindelof as you. He's been here long enough that he's not going to turn into a world beater. He's fine as a squad option so I'm not saying we should get rid of him too.

That's a big if on Varane. The reason I'm saying we need two is because we can't rely on Varane to be fit. He's only capable of 20 - 25 games a season.
Between Evans, Maguire, Varane, Lindelof and big Willy we'll be fine for the rest of the season
 

NLunited

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frankly, i feel we’ve started
We are largely on the same page. For me Garnacho carries more threat on the right because the threat of him going on the outside is real. Most fullbacks are used to cut in Merchants or wingers playing with their strongest foot inside. Furthermore unlike a Rashford he is super comfortable playing off his natural side
I think Garnacho is effective from both sides. He would have played Rashford out of the team, if we had a world class right winger.

He‘s cutting in more often than going on the outside , even on the right. Those are instructions: we are seeing those patterns more and more, with Dalot and Shaw providing the overlapping run, creating space for Garnacho/Rashford to go inside.

He is on great form, relentless and a threat from both sides. It is great he does well on the right, as it allows us to play Rashford on the left in his best position , if he can be bothered to put in a good effort.
 

mitchmouse

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I don't have as much faith in Lindelof as you. He's been here long enough that he's not going to turn into a world beater. He's fine as a squad option so I'm not saying we should get rid of him too.

That's a big if on Varane. The reason I'm saying we need two is because we can't rely on Varane to be fit. He's only capable of 20 - 25 games a season.
20-25 games sounds good to me with someone of his quality... back in the day, we had a good enough squad for a CB (or pretty much anyone) to do that, if Peter S was given time of now and then
 

lex talionis

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What I saw is that between the boxes West Ham put up a decent fight, but in the boxes our finishing was great (did we have two goals disallowed for offside or was that another game?) and theirs was poor.

We talk a lot about control of midfield and while that is an important factor in judging who deserved victory, as well as chance creation, in the end it almost always is about which side takes their chances more effectively.
 

justsomebloke

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Varane if he stays uninjured is still world class - he reads the game better than others. I'd keep Lindelof too - he has done a pretty good job when needed this season and deserves a chance to play withouyt having to cary Mr Nine Point Turn/Speed of a Snail Maguire
Actually, looking at other needs across this squad, I'm tempted to think that provided everyone stays healthy, we could actually get by with our current group of CBs. Even Maguire has played himself back into consideration, and seems to have accepted his new position in the squad too.
 

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Score Predictions

133,12,14
  • Man Utd win
  • West Ham win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 29% Man Utd 2:1 West Ham
  • 14% Man Utd 3:1 West Ham
  • 13% Man Utd 2:0 West Ham
  • 11% Man Utd 3:2 West Ham
  • 9% Man Utd 3:0 West Ham
  • 4% Man Utd 2:2 West Ham
  • 4% Man Utd 1:1 West Ham
  • 3% Man Utd 4:1 West Ham
  • 3% Man Utd 1:2 West Ham
  • 2% Man Utd 1:0 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 0:0 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 4:2 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 2:3 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 1:3 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 5:4 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 1:4 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 0:1 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 0:2 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 5:0 West Ham
  • 1% Man Utd 2:6 West Ham
Compiled from 159 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. West Ham
Possession
51% 49%
Shots
12 22
Shots on Target
5 3
Corners
5 8
Fouls
10 5

Referee

Andy Madley