Potential for new strategies with the 5 sub rule

Skills

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Do you expect to see some new strategies being used because of the 5 sub rule? The ability to change 1/2 your outfielders is potentially huge, if someone is particularly good at it.

At the moment a sub in most managers repertoire is used for at most :
  • Injuries
  • Resting players
  • Wasting time at the end
  • Occasionally stick another forward on to get a goal
But, I feel a lot of the average managers in football who are averse to making subs will get heavily punished if they're not using them properly. If the opposition can all of a sudden have a constantly supply of fresh legs/energy levels on the pitch (even if the quality isn't there), and is capable of switching tactics more easily now - they'll get exposed a lot more.
 

romufc

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Do you expect to see some new strategies being used because of the 5 sub rule? The ability to change 1/2 your outfielders is potentially huge, if someone is particularly good at it.

At the moment a sub in most managers repertoire is used for at most :
  • Injuries
  • Resting players
  • Wasting time at the end
  • Occasionally stick another forward on to get a goal
But, I feel a lot of the average managers in football who are averse to making subs will get heavily punished if they're not using them properly. If the opposition can all of a sudden have a constantly supply of fresh legs/energy levels on the pitch (even if the quality isn't there), and is capable of switching tactics more easily now - they'll get exposed a lot more.
How many squads in the PL have 5 like for like players?

I can understand why it had been brought in but really, can you see 5 subs every game? if a team is 1-0 and then you go and make 5 changes, it could backfire.
 

Pexbo

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I expect it will be used as 1,(2/3),(1/2) with the final subs just reserved for injuries and cramp.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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I heard it's been brought in to encourage managers to bring someone on from the bench only to sub them back off again more often. We need more ritual humiliation in the game and managers worry about using two-thirds of their subs just to put some cocky twat in their place.
 

Beachryan

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I'd suggest you swap all 4 widemen. Make em work ridiculously hard for 55 mins / 35 mins respectively.
 

Peyroteo

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It changes everything especially in these first few weeks where players will tire out quickly. The players coming off the bench will be in much better shape to change the game when compared to the players already on the pitch.

Having midfield depth and one or two fast forwards to come off the bench will be a big advantage.
 

Skills

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Sorry for my ignorance, is this just for this period or is this going to the law going forward? To have 5 subs?
Just the end of the season, but I can see the bigger clubs pushing to keep this permanently.
 

SilentWitness

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Should help City quite a bit as their squad is thicc in terms of like for like quality.
 

flappyjay

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Sorry for my ignorance, is this just for this period or is this going to the law going forward? To have 5 subs?
It's supposed to be for this season only but you never know with these things. Fifa and Uefa might like it and keep it
 

KW2006

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If it is with Fergie and players like Park, Fletcher and Tevez, Fergie will tell 1-2 players that they will be subbed in the 60th minutes, so they should run their ass off during that 60 mins. In our current squad, players like James and Lingard might be useful.
 

DWelbz19

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Should help City quite a bit as their squad is thicc in terms of like for like quality.
The bigger sides in general, really. This is definitely a bit of lopsided rule (on paper) that one assumes would disadvantage the smaller sides.
 

SirAnderson

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Just the end of the season, but I can see the bigger clubs pushing to keep this permanently.
It's supposed to be for this season only but you never know with these things. Fifa and Uefa might like it and keep it
Cool thanks. Yeah I envision they will want to push for this to be permanent. I like it but it definitely could widen the gap between rich and average clubs. From a player perspective I think it will help a lot, and create less injuries, from a tactical perspective, it will be quite interesting to see how it develops, but I definitely it will have a major impact, whether negative or positive remains to be seen.
 

SilentWitness

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The bigger sides in general, really. This is definitely a bit of lopsided rule (on paper) that one assumes would disadvantage the smaller sides.
Definitely but in terms of bench quality City are by far the best. If the lead at the top wasn't so stretched out then it could have made things a bit more interesting for sure.
 

flappyjay

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Cool thanks. Yeah I envision they will want to push for this to be permanent. I like it but it definitely could widen the gap between rich and average clubs. From a player perspective I think it will help a lot, and create less injuries, from a tactical perspective, it will be quite interesting to see how it develops, but I definitely it will have a major impact, whether negative or positive remains to be seen.
If it's to be made permanent I would rather it's given to 2 academy players maybe under the age of 21. Or just for injuries.
 

SweetRightFoot

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Not sure I like this idea. Will undoubtedly suit the bigger clubs with more talent on the bench to call from. You'll see teams like City and Liverpool switching their entire midfields out to keep a ridiculously high level of pressure all game.

However, this will make it better for the neutral viewer, with a higher speed of play in the final 30 minutes, and in the long run will benefit younger players at all clubs trying to break into the first team.
 

fps

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It should absolutely not be made permanent. Half the players on the pitch being replaced, would hardly feel like he same match. Plus the clear advantage to the richest clubs.
 

Maluco

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This is an awful idea and takes the gloss off the restart. It just adds to the feeling that these are not proper games. I absolutely hate it and think it takes away from the game.

I fully expect to see more stoppages during games too, as a yellow no longer has the same weight. More tactical fouling incoming.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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We can use it to bring on Pogba, Ighalo, Lingard and Pereira to change the game. Could be great, but also make us worse.
If Pogba starts on the bench then a fresh Pogba to bring on after 60 minutes would be great.
 

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If it is with Fergie and players like Park, Fletcher and Tevez, Fergie will tell 1-2 players that they will be subbed in the 60th minutes, so they should run their ass off during that 60 mins. In our current squad, players like James and Lingard might be useful.
Also Fred and McTominay, both being dynamic hard-working players and very equally matched. As far as I'm concerned we should always give each of them 45 and have them bust an absolute gut and dominate.
 

Brightonian

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Can you make 5 separate substitutions, by the way? I remember some talk that you could make five changes but in three 'groups' so as to try not to disrupt the game more than usual. I liked that idea.
 

Skills

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Can you make 5 separate substitutions, by the way? I remember some talk that you could make five changes but in three 'groups' so as to try not to disrupt the game more than usual. I liked that idea.
Halftime + 3 other stoppages IIRC
 

Brightonian

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Halftime + 3 other stoppages IIRC
Then that seems like a good approach to me. Shouldn't cause much extra disruption. I don't expect managers will overuse it. In fact they'll probably mostly underuse it at first, football managers being a stubborn, change-averse breed for the most part. But it'll be interesting to see what tactical options it opens up.

I wouldn't support it long term, but for the rest of this season it's a solid shout.
 

Skills

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Then that seems like a good approach to me. Shouldn't cause much extra disruption. I don't expect managers will overuse it. In fact they'll probably mostly underuse it at first, football managers being a stubborn, change-averse breed for the most part. But it'll be interesting to see what tactical options it opens up.

I wouldn't support it long term, but for the rest of this season it's a solid shout.
One of the points I'll be making in the OP. A lot of managers are already quite poor with subs, but if the opposition can now change up to 5 players the neanderthals will get obliterated and left behind.

If this is here to stay, you might even see a change in the makeup of the top managers around if they can't adapt quick enough or someone else does it better.
 

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Many of you seem a little ignorant to the rule and looks like you haven't been watching any Bundesliga the past month or so...which is fine, but should be more questions than assumptions.

It's 3 the traditional rounds of substitutions and halftime. Nowhere in the amended rules does it say that the a team cannot make 5 wholesale changes during a round of substitutions. But many teams have done double substitutions twice per game, in addition to a single sub in/out.

Then in European competition, if a match goes into extra time, each team is awarded an additional substitution round - how many subs you can use is based on how many changes you made prior to the extra time as unused subs and unused rounds rollover into extra time. So theoretically, in a European match (i.e. CL or EL), a sixth player can be changed.

For example against Spurs:
Round One - Matic and Shaw (OUT) -> McTominay and Williams (IN) - 2 subs used
Round Two - Pogba (OUT) -> Fred (IN) - 1 sub used
Round Three - Rashford and Martial (OUT) -> Greenwood and Ighalo (IN) - 5 subs used

Three total rounds of subs - 5 players out, 5 players in. United have much better squad depth and quality now that Bruno, Ighalo, Rashford, and Pogba are in the team/fit again. This is an absolute advantage for United.
 

edcunited1878

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This rule is only valid for all 19/20 competitions that have an end of 31 December 2020, so it's temporary.

https://www.fifa.com/who-we-are/new...emporarily-allowed-for-competition-organisers


Law 3 – The Players – Temporary amendment

In summary:

  • Each team will be permitted to use a maximum of five substitutes.
  • To reduce disruption to the match, each team will have a maximum of three opportunities to make substitutions during the game; substitutions may also be made at half-time.
  • If both teams make a substitution at the same time, this will count as one of the three opportunities for each team.
  • Unused substitutions and opportunities are carried forward into extra time.
  • Where competition rules allow an additional substitution in extra time, teams will each have one additional substitution opportunity; substitutions may also be made before the start of extra time and at half-time in extra time.
The use of return substitutes is not an option for senior competitions.

In addition, there will be two, one (1) minute water breaks - with one break occurring either side of halftime. So a minute water break around the 26th minute and potentially another minute water break around the 75th minute.
 

Robbo*

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Will certainly lead to lots of defenders being on the pitch to defend a lead. How about teams starting with an extra attacker to try and pinch a couple of early goals, then sacrificing them for a midfielder after 15 mins if the game falls into a more balanced pattern? We could try that with Greenwood and still have Ighalo on the bench for later in the game if needed.
 

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They should give Mou a big cardboard cut out of a bus and let him lead out his 5 defender subs in it in the 60th minute
 

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This will benefit Utd, especially now we have the choice of Matic, Fred, McTominay, Pogba and Fernandes in central midfield

Whichever two don't start (assuming we stick with pre-lockdown formation) could be brought on after 55mins or so and give us fresh legs without really reducing the quality of the personnel, which could be a massive advantage after the break
 

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One of the points I'll be making in the OP. A lot of managers are already quite poor with subs, but if the opposition can now change up to 5 players the neanderthals will get obliterated and left behind.

If this is here to stay, you might even see a change in the makeup of the top managers around if they can't adapt quick enough or someone else does it better.
Well, obliterated might be a bit much, substitutions can only do so much. But certainly it could be significant.

I highly doubt it'll be here to stay. It's a solution to a temporary problem. It's not even to do with the coronavirus in general, it's specifically to help with the intense fixture congestion. And that's fine by me - there's nothing inherently improvable about the three substitution standard.
 

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This rule is only valid for all 19/20 competitions that have an end of 31 December 2020, so it's temporary.

https://www.fifa.com/who-we-are/new...emporarily-allowed-for-competition-organisers


Law 3 – The Players – Temporary amendment

In summary:

  • Each team will be permitted to use a maximum of five substitutes.
  • To reduce disruption to the match, each team will have a maximum of three opportunities to make substitutions during the game; substitutions may also be made at half-time.
  • If both teams make a substitution at the same time, this will count as one of the three opportunities for each team.
  • Unused substitutions and opportunities are carried forward into extra time.
  • Where competition rules allow an additional substitution in extra time, teams will each have one additional substitution opportunity; substitutions may also be made before the start of extra time and at half-time in extra time.
The use of return substitutes is not an option for senior competitions.

In addition, there will be two, one (1) minute water breaks - with one break occurring either side of halftime. So a minute water break around the 26th minute and potentially another minute water break around the 75th minute.
Cheers, finally clear.
 

VeevaVee

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It has the potential to affect things massively, when you consider that once teams have nothing to play for they'll be rotating all over the show and potentially affecting how other teams do. Bit of a farce really, but then this whole thing is.