Potential Matic Replacements

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
4,358
Early this season we struggled to break teams that sat deep because of our lack of creativity, post lock down we have won teams that sat deep.

However we have struggled against Southampton and to some extent CP that pressed high.I suspect that lesser teams will adopt this approach against us.
Magic replacement should be press resistant, good passer of the ball, positionally disciplined and have the ability to retain possession.

Scot and Fred don't have these abilities, they're more box box and should be rotating Pogba or play in a match that we are expected to sit back and give up possession.

I really feel that we may need a CDM, more than we need a RW ,though we should get both.
Like I said in above post I am convinced we are going to take the Sancho approach in this position too.
 

Devil may care

Full Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
32,580
This, to me, is an even more important question to answer than RW. Yes, bring in Sancho first, whatever it takes. But it's clear as crystal that we need to prioritize this role if we're to have any hope of bringing in a PL or CL trophy.

Rely on Fred and McSauce for this job, despite how fantastic each has been, and we will not lift major trophies.
Agreed, people are strangely ignoring this while pining for grealish, Matic offers control but lacks mobility when pressed and his engine runs out after a few 90 minutes back to back. Fred and Mctominay aren't the answer, both are decent box to box midfielder's, not holders who can control play, putting them there is a square peg in a round hole deal.
 

redDNA

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
188
Location
Berlin
Not saying we will find an absolute worldie in that position but a player that fits what Ole needs there
I hope he is looking at the position, I hope he's not serious about playing Scot there going by his recent comment
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
4,358
I hope he is looking at the position, I hope he's not serious about playing Scot there going by his recent comment
My feeling is that next season Matic will remain as first choice,however in games where he needs a rest Scott will given chance to prove himself there.

I think if he doesn't do enough over the course of the season then fully expecting Ole to go into the market next summer.
 

Bojan Djordjic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
76
I think Garner is a much better fit as the long term solution to Matic growing old rather than McTominay. He has the attributes required stylistically but it just remains to be seen if he can make the step up like McTominay has.
 

redDNA

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
188
Location
Berlin
My feeling is that next season Matic will remain as first choice,however in games where he needs a rest Scott will given chance to prove himself there.

I think if he doesn't do enough over the course of the season then fully expecting Ole to go into the market next summer.
I hope that it works
 

In Rainbows

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
5,445
I think Garner is a much better fit as the long term solution to Matic growing old rather than McTominay. He has the attributes required stylistically but it just remains to be seen if he can make the step up like McTominay has.
Even Mejbri can do the job, albeit it will be more like 2015 Real Madrid's midfield of James, Kroos, and Modric. You can dominate the midfield provided they're all comfortable with the ball, technically great, have enough workrate, and are press resistant.
 

beingshe7don

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
2,526
I think Garner is a much better fit as the long term solution to Matic growing old rather than McTominay. He has the attributes required stylistically but it just remains to be seen if he can make the step up like McTominay has.
Garner is more of a No. 8 than 6. He's goal scorer
 

DarkXaero

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,725
Location
NJ, USA
Still haven’t seen a better fit than Koopmeiners IMO.
First time I've heard of him, but after watching some yt clips, and reading up on him, he seems like an intriguing option. Seems to have really good passing range from deep, good technique, strong physical frame, left footed, and already a club captain at 22. Any Eredivisie fans to elaborate?
 

lenny_1248

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 31, 2019
Messages
230
Garner is more of a No. 8 than 6. He's goal scorer
Nonsense. Just because he scored some goals this season in shit U-23 league does not say he's "number 8 and a goalscorer". He always played as a number 6 or in double pivot.
 

BenitoSTARR

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
2,641
First time I've heard of him, but after watching some yt clips, and reading up on him, he seems like an intriguing option. Seems to have really good passing range from deep, good technique, strong physical frame, left footed, and already a club captain at 22. Any Eredivisie fans to elaborate?
Been watching a lot of AZ (bit of a fan myself!) and absolutely his passing is outstanding and because people watch his highlights they think that’s all he does which results in posters on here who haven’t watched him a lot (or in some cases at all) seem happy to pigeon hole him for it.

He’s a very well rounded DM/CM could comfortably play the Pogba style raking passes into Rashford but equally adept at line breaking passes from deep positions.

He’s by far AZ’s best player, more people know of Stengs and Boadu (probably from Fifa or because they are attacking players) but take Koopmeiners out of AZ and they’d really struggle.

He’s defensively similar to Matic in that he doesn’t dive in and engage in high risk defensive play unless he knows he’s covered he’s excellent at positional defence (delaying attacks until support is available).

He’s so good defensively that he does also play CB from time to time and would comfortably be able to drop back into CB roles like Matic has done on occasion.

I honestly do not see a better mix of potential, current ability, age, price, mentality and availability on the market at the moment. There are other DMs I like Zakaria and Rice being the other two but they would be more expensive options.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
2,790
Been watching a lot of AZ (bit of a fan myself!) and absolutely his passing is outstanding and because people watch his highlights they think that’s all he does which results in posters on here who haven’t watched him a lot (or in some cases at all) seem happy to pigeon hole him for it.

He’s a very well rounded DM/CM could comfortably play the Pogba style raking passes into Rashford but equally adept at line breaking passes from deep positions.

He’s by far AZ’s best player, more people know of Stengs and Boadu (probably from Fifa or because they are attacking players) but take Koopmeiners out of AZ and they’d really struggle.

He’s defensively similar to Matic in that he doesn’t dive in and engage in high risk defensive play unless he knows he’s covered he’s excellent at positional defence (delaying attacks until support is available).

He’s so good defensively that he does also play CB from time to time and would comfortably be able to drop back into CB roles like Matic has done on occasion.

I honestly do not see a better mix of potential, current ability, age, price, mentality and availability on the market at the moment. There are other DMs I like Zakaria and Rice being the other two but they would be more expensive options.
Would be worth a punt if he's cheap. I think if he's as you described he is the perfect fit. Our game flows much better when we play a left footed player on the left of the double pivot. His young and can learn from Matic and Carrick. Sure his from a weak league but he probably won't be an immediate starter as Matic is still good but just needs his minutes managed. He's also the captain at 21? Indication that his has character we need
 

BenitoSTARR

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
2,641
Would be worth a punt if he's cheap. I think if he's as you described he is the perfect fit. Our game flows much better when we play a left footed player on the left of the double pivot. His young and can learn from Matic and Carrick. Sure his from a weak league but he probably won't be an immediate starter as Matic is still good but just needs his minutes managed. He's also the captain at 21? Indication that his has character we need
I see it really as a low risk no brainer in my eyes. At very least he’ll be a great addition to the squad and if he plays as he can I believe we’d have got a bit of a bargain.

AZ aren’t in a position to get big money for players at the moment so £15-20m max and we could get him. Everyone else Zakaria, Rice etc and you’re looking at £40m plus maybe £50m for Rice.
 

BenitoSTARR

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
2,641
For those who want a bit of context the last time I was this impressed by an AZ midfielder was Dembele and I think Koopmeiners will be better.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
2,790
I see it really as a low risk no brainer in my eyes. At very least he’ll be a great addition to the squad and if he plays as he can I believe we’d have got a bit of a bargain.

AZ aren’t in a position to get big money for players at the moment so £15-20m max and we could get him. Everyone else Zakaria, Rice etc and you’re looking at £40m plus maybe £50m for Rice.
I'd take him for that price. However I think the club is invested in making Mctominay Matic's replacement/backup.
 

Bojan Djordjic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
76
Garner is more of a No. 8 than 6. He's goal scorer
Anytime I've seen him at youth level, he's shown great anticipation, tackling and progressive passing. Yeah, he scores goals at that level too but I just think that adds that bit more to his locker. I just think he has the skillset to be a deep lying playmaker. I see Mejbri as more of an understudy to Pogba.
 

Devil may care

Full Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
32,580
People keep saying Garner but he has only played one competitive senior game for us, he likely needs a loan or two to evaluate his level.

I don't get the appeal of Rice, he's another Maguire imo, decent but limited and overhyped and overpriced due to his nationality. We need someone that can cover ground and with better mobility than Matic but not downgrade on him when it comes to ability on the ball.
 

beingshe7don

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
2,526
Same could have been said of Scholes at 18. He was more of a #10 and a goal scorer.
Scholes made a transition to midfield happen much later as we stopped playing with a No. 10 and SAF wanted to make the best use of Scholes' vision which made better sense to have him moved to midfield. You can't compare the two. Levitt and not Garner is a better fit for No. 6. At the end of the day, you've got to understand the strengths/ weaknesses as a player and use them accordingly.
 

DarkXaero

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,725
Location
NJ, USA
Been watching a lot of AZ (bit of a fan myself!) and absolutely his passing is outstanding and because people watch his highlights they think that’s all he does which results in posters on here who haven’t watched him a lot (or in some cases at all) seem happy to pigeon hole him for it.

He’s a very well rounded DM/CM could comfortably play the Pogba style raking passes into Rashford but equally adept at line breaking passes from deep positions.

He’s by far AZ’s best player, more people know of Stengs and Boadu (probably from Fifa or because they are attacking players) but take Koopmeiners out of AZ and they’d really struggle.

He’s defensively similar to Matic in that he doesn’t dive in and engage in high risk defensive play unless he knows he’s covered he’s excellent at positional defence (delaying attacks until support is available).

He’s so good defensively that he does also play CB from time to time and would comfortably be able to drop back into CB roles like Matic has done on occasion.

I honestly do not see a better mix of potential, current ability, age, price, mentality and availability on the market at the moment. There are other DMs I like Zakaria and Rice being the other two but they would be more expensive options.
Thanks for the info. That all sounds great, it's a bit surprising that I haven't seen his name pop up in random transfer rumor stories or him being linked to us (as media tends to link every player to us at some point). His positional play in clips did remind me of Matic, and he seems disciplined in that sense. It's also a nice bonus that he is a left footed free kick taker and penalty taker for his club.
 

GDaly95

Sexist Pig
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
3,772
Location
Wicklow, Ireland
Think Ruben Neves would be perfect but we don't really know how hard it is to get a player from Wolves.

Would probably be a nightmare
 

MackRobinson

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Messages
2,498
Location
Terminal D
Supports
Football
Lampard won't sell, let alone sell to United. Kante is 29 and he'll cost atleast 60 to 70m. I'm a huge fan but not a great deal. We are building a young team. We've already signed Matic on a 3 year deal. We need someone perhaps 25 and below to fill in the Matic role.
I would still take him. Like I said, even if he's only good for 2-3 seasons it could make a difference between winning things and not. The point of football is not to amass a young team.
 

LuckyScout78

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
319
The only and best Matic copy out there is Fabian Ruiz from Napoli. If you want a Makele or Roy Keane beast. Then model and type is different. Cup of tea is different.

The best upcoming Cm out there right now in this world football market is Sandro Tonali from Brescia. Clear as day.
 

Name Changed

weso26
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
26,591
Location
Dublin
Same here. Would love Declan Rice at OT. Very mobile, great passing range, always going forward, sniffs the danger. He is my pick too.
He can play centre back as well. I think he would be a fantastic signing, although as others have said, the cost would be huge.
 

Jibbs

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
1,003
If Pogba doesn't leave, we need to sign Ndidi this year to play Matic role. If Pogba does leave, we need to sign two... ideally Ndidi and VdB or Neves.
If we can't sign Ndidi, we should look for VdB, who can very well play number 6 role.
 

Jibbs

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
1,003
Been watching a lot of AZ (bit of a fan myself!) and absolutely his passing is outstanding and because people watch his highlights they think that’s all he does which results in posters on here who haven’t watched him a lot (or in some cases at all) seem happy to pigeon hole him for it.

He’s a very well rounded DM/CM could comfortably play the Pogba style raking passes into Rashford but equally adept at line breaking passes from deep positions.

He’s by far AZ’s best player, more people know of Stengs and Boadu (probably from Fifa or because they are attacking players) but take Koopmeiners out of AZ and they’d really struggle.

He’s defensively similar to Matic in that he doesn’t dive in and engage in high risk defensive play unless he knows he’s covered he’s excellent at positional defence (delaying attacks until support is available).

He’s so good defensively that he does also play CB from time to time and would comfortably be able to drop back into CB roles like Matic has done on occasion.

I honestly do not see a better mix of potential, current ability, age, price, mentality and availability on the market at the moment. There are other DMs I like Zakaria and Rice being the other two but they would be more expensive options.
He will be a very good signing but don't think Ole is in favour of making budget signings for first team. He either goes big or signs youngsters.
 

Green_Red

Full Member
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
7,837
I've seen Kondogbia mentioned online as a potential signing for us this summer. Don't know much about him other than he starred for me in the redcafe online manager games, must be quality!
 

Man Yusuf united

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
19
If Pogba doesn't leave, we need to sign Ndidi this year to play Matic role. If Pogba does leave, we need to sign two... ideally Ndidi and VdB or Neves.
If we can't sign Ndidi, we should look for VdB, who can very well play number 6 role.
I am not sure Ole will be looking for another holding mid fielder in this window especially after giving Matic a three years contract he has a reason for doing that and i also doubt that Ndindi is the type of a defensive mid fielder that can fit Ole's system