Bring Redondo out of retirement, he would do a better job than him
Potential Matic Replacements
- Thread starter FootyGirl88
- Start date
But it depends very much on the type of football that the team plays. I am in general against comparing players cross teams. Generally. Its very different to be a #6 in Barcelona or City compared to Liverpool for example. And even more compared to a Mourinho team.
My basic opinion is that Pogba will not be at his best in a defensively oriented team to begin with. But we are, and it showed last year with Pogba, playing in his "favored" left #8 position. He did not get on the ball nearly enough and when he sometimes just had Lukaku in front of him. A waste of talent.
He was much better when he played deeper with Matic.
That said Pogba is never a #6 for a Barca or City team, but I would argue that its his best position in our team as we are currently set up.
What happened to Julian Weigl? I remember him 2 years ago thinking he is the future Busquets type of player
Neves at Wolves looks a good player but has a Pep signing next summer written all over him.
I think Pogba struggling as number 8 last year was more because of lack of movement from the attackers mainly Lukaku who doesn't move and Sanchez playing left getting into Pogbas area it was a mess.
But I remember Everton away we played Martial, Mata and Lingard an interchanging front three and Pogba played one of his best games on the left. It can be effective if we have the right players in the right areas.
But I agree with you in home games especially we don't need 3 midfielders. Only in the big games.
I would choose a midfield of Herrera, Fred, Pogba which imo gives us the best balance.
Either way we lack creators in the team so it's something to address for the future.
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Witsel and Delaney are playing quite well for Favre in a double pivot — Weigl hasn't quite been the same since Tuchel's departure and has faced some positional/injury-related issues in recent years. If United want to sign a young player in the mold of Busquets (holding midfielder who's press resistant and good at retaining possession and more cerebral than brutish), we could do worse than this guy, I think...
Rodri was the breakout young #6 in La Liga last season and is doing quite well back at Atlético, now Roca is emerging as one of the better players at second-placed Espanyol (who also have the second best defensive record from a statistical standpoint). Hope we're monitoring him after missing out on the likes of Rodri and Ruiz (versatile central midfielder who's now at Napoli) in the summer...has a relatively reasonable ~£30 million release clause, too. Spain has quietly produced a handful of good midfield prospects in recent years, and we might be missing a trick by not prioritizing at least one of them — of course, some might not progress further than Illarramendi or worse yet, Romeu, but a couple have the potential to develop into watered down versions of Busquets or peak Martínez over the next 2-3-4 seasons.
Most obvious one that comes to mind. But there is no fun in just blurting out "Kante!"
Ruben neves, or Allan..
Allan from napoli
I think you have to look at the composition of the midfield, in Pogba we have a bit of a hybrid AM /CM who creates in the final third and off the wing, if he comes out of the team his most natural replacements are our kinda #10's, Mata and Lingard. We have the worker Bee's in Herrera and Fred, now the jury is out on one and Herrera may leave for free in the summer, but that's a different replacement issue. The piece we miss is the consistent, accurate forward passer who can set the tempo for the team, a one touch and pass kind of CM.
Now some teams like Barca and City play with more than one but I thiunk we'd likely set up more like the previous Juve midfield where Pogba was in with Pirlo and Vidal or Marchisio, Or Sarri's Napoli or current Chelsea midfield.
Neves remains by far our best option that is at a team we might be able to convince into selling with vast amounts of cash. Paredes is a riskier option but has the skillset and then there's Rabiot (Free in the summer @bucky @JPRouve ) who isn't as good on the ball as the other 2 but is still a very good player and passer.
Now some teams like Barca and City play with more than one but I thiunk we'd likely set up more like the previous Juve midfield where Pogba was in with Pirlo and Vidal or Marchisio, Or Sarri's Napoli or current Chelsea midfield.
Neves remains by far our best option that is at a team we might be able to convince into selling with vast amounts of cash. Paredes is a riskier option but has the skillset and then there's Rabiot (Free in the summer @bucky @JPRouve ) who isn't as good on the ball as the other 2 but is still a very good player and passer.
Neither are better on the ball, in fact Rabiot and Neves are strangely similar.
I think Neves is a better passer, but is Rabiot free in the summer?
IIRC, he is supposed to imminently sign a new contract otherwise he is free this summer.
Rabiot is on his way from PSG soon. He has looked a decent player.
Thanks, just read that Barca are tipped to make a move for him, just thought he could be a good option, especially for free given we also need to spend big on CB ad RW.
I don't think Paredes is good enough right now. He's got good vision and through balls, but isn't really a consistent pace setting kind of passer and Zenit always struggle to control midfield. His movement and workrate are often suspect with players like Kuzyaev and Erokhin doing a lot of running for him. He's also a hothead that seems easily antagonised.
Weight or Pelegrini.
Can't turn our noses up at Rabiot if he's on a free, he's a quality player and still only 23, you'd imagine other top clubs will be sniffing around him too though. Neves is a must if we can get him. I would take a punt on Weigl still just simply because I imagine his price has dropped a little now and he could probably be gotten for a reasonable fee from Dortmund.
Like the kid but have doubts that trio would offer enough defensive cover
For Matic`s replacement to play, Matic has to leave first and we just got him, already talking about replacing, sound tactic.
I would personally go for Rabiot, still fairly young, good height on him (Jose's requirement), position awareness and good on the ball too. Think he's going thru some contract issues, so could potentially get on the cheaper side vs the names stated above.
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My issue with Weigl is his injuries. Could end up like a Hargreaves aka nightmare!
He could, I don't think he's as much of a crock as Hargreaves, but, when Hargreaves was fit he was pretty good for us I thought. He's still young, it would definitely depend on price I think.
isnt rabiot more a CM than a DM?
It all depends on where we want to go and style of play.
There's two options:
Deep-lying playmaker (DLP)
Ball winner
A perfect example would be Idrissa Gueye. Not great on the ball, but is fantastic at winning the ball. Actually, the last four seasons, he has been in the top 3 at tackles made in the premier league, and is currently on top this season with 55.
Personally, as I said before, it depends on the system.
To me, a DLP is more suited to a 433. It allows them to drop in between the centre backs and start attacks. This means, the two midfielders above the holding midfielder can play higher up and look to play in between the lines, knowing that the DLP has the ability to either find them or find another pass to start play.
With a ball winner as the single pivot, due to them not possessing the range of passing a DLP would have, it means the two midfielders above have to drop.
This is the problem I feel we have with Matic. On the ball, whilst his passing isn't poor, it isn't at the required standard of a DLP, i.e. Busquets, Jorginho, Pjanic, etc, which is why you see Pogba dropping so deep for the ball to start play.
In a 4231, however, you can get away with a ball winner in a double pivot, as long as you have a creative player next to you. For example, Pogba and Kante for France.
Going forward, i'm not sure whether it's Jose's style, but he should really be looking to go with a DLP. It would also help out our centre backs, who are not particularly great on the ball.
I would like to see Periera given a run of games there to see how he gets on. Showed promising sides as the single pivot in the last couple of pre seasons. Has a really good passing range and is dynamic.
If it doesn't quite work out, players I would like to see are:
Marco Verratti
Toni Kroos
Thiago Alcantara
Pogba Verratti Herrera
There's two options:
Deep-lying playmaker (DLP)
- Sits in front of the defence
- Creative play-maker from deep
- Distributes to teammates, near and far
- Sets the team’s tempo
- Capable of tackling, though a secondary task
Ball winner
- Sits in front of the defence
- Wins the ball back with tackles and interceptions
- Covers teammates when they go forward
- Harries opposition attackers
- Physically fit and tenacious
A perfect example would be Idrissa Gueye. Not great on the ball, but is fantastic at winning the ball. Actually, the last four seasons, he has been in the top 3 at tackles made in the premier league, and is currently on top this season with 55.
Personally, as I said before, it depends on the system.
To me, a DLP is more suited to a 433. It allows them to drop in between the centre backs and start attacks. This means, the two midfielders above the holding midfielder can play higher up and look to play in between the lines, knowing that the DLP has the ability to either find them or find another pass to start play.
With a ball winner as the single pivot, due to them not possessing the range of passing a DLP would have, it means the two midfielders above have to drop.
This is the problem I feel we have with Matic. On the ball, whilst his passing isn't poor, it isn't at the required standard of a DLP, i.e. Busquets, Jorginho, Pjanic, etc, which is why you see Pogba dropping so deep for the ball to start play.
In a 4231, however, you can get away with a ball winner in a double pivot, as long as you have a creative player next to you. For example, Pogba and Kante for France.
Going forward, i'm not sure whether it's Jose's style, but he should really be looking to go with a DLP. It would also help out our centre backs, who are not particularly great on the ball.
I would like to see Periera given a run of games there to see how he gets on. Showed promising sides as the single pivot in the last couple of pre seasons. Has a really good passing range and is dynamic.
If it doesn't quite work out, players I would like to see are:
Marco Verratti
Toni Kroos
Thiago Alcantara
Pogba Verratti Herrera
What you really need to worry about is the ball winning capability of your midfield. You have to have enough playmaking and ball winners in the midfield trio.
Busquets and Casemiro are ball winners not DLPs but they are successfully anchoring a midfield trio that builds from the back cos they have Xavi+Iniesta and Kroos+Modric respectively. Jorginho is successful at Chelsea cos he has Kante to deal with the ball winning responsibility.
Assuming its Pogba and regular CM like Fred, or Pogba in a dual pivot, then then DM needs to be more of a ball winner than a playmaker. What he lacks in playmaking can be made up by Pogba, the other CM and a ball playing CB (see Madrid setup). You can only prioritize a DLP if you have a player like Kante in the trio.
In my opinion, we should be looking for a great ball winner that is able to cover the LB/RB pushing forward either by dropping into the CB position (Matic type) or has the speed and work rate to cover side to side (Kante type).
We also need to get a good backup/prospect
Hence why I put Herrera in there, instead of Fred. Herrera, like Kante, Gueye, etc, is a fantastic ball winner. When played often, especially under Van Gaal, we saw how effective at pressing high and winning the ball Herrera was.
If a ball-winner has priority, then maybe Wilmar Barrios from Boca Juniors is an interesting option.
Hd a great WC, Spurs have been sniffing for 15 million apparently.
Good post @Walters_19_MuFc for that DLP role we could easily develop Pereira. He fits everything we're looking for, my only concern is his positioning but he can do the rest no problem.
Thanks.
I agree. He had some really good displays there in pre season. Unfortunately, he didn't get run of games going into this season. As soon as Matic was fit, he more or less came straight back in.
As for positioning, it's only something he'll learn from playing and learning the role - a bit like Carrick.
How about Thomas Partey from Atletico?Scored a screamer today. Apparently not playing much and possibly looking to leave in the January window.
He doesnt have the battery to sustain it 2x a week and is only a year younger than Matic. To plan based on him is to have us looking for a new ball winner this summer or a year later at the most.
Also with the ball winner ahead of the DLP, you need to worry when your LB/RB push forward as the ball winner is more easily bypassed and need that same DLP to cover the space.
I dont think one should go that route unless you have either an exceptional DLP or exceptional ball winner. we have neither
Excellent post.
The system with the DLP requires pressing when the possession is lost, it helps DLP when the team press high and prevent the opposition making incisive passes. The DLP can win the ball back by intercepting without having to chase opponents and make tackles.
The system with the ball winner(which is what we play with) doesn't necessarily require pressing higher, as the CMs are already dropping deep to collect the ball and the ball winner can chase and make tackles. The problem with our system is Matic is not a ball winner, he is quite a decent playmaker but he doesn't have the physical attributes or skills needed to play like a ball winner. That's why Matic is struggling as we don't press at all. If we play with a highline and press as a team, Matic would look far better IMO.
Starting to think this is our number one priority.
We should go all out for Frenkie De Jong. He's the type of talent we need to bring into the club. His close control and dribbling in central areas is exactly what we need to bridge the gap between us and Abu Dhabi..
Mourinho needs to be fecked off before that. We shouldn't even think about spending big on another promising young player, while we're still infested by that disease.
De Jong is where it's at. Our coach will probably prefer Kondogbia.
Not whilst Mourinho is still here. He'll be left to warm the bench alongside Fred otherwise.