'Powerful' Pogba and 'unintelligent' Lukaku | Debunking media stereotypes

[Adnan]

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Must read article, and I agree wholeheartedly with the way the media portray black player's in comparison to white player's.

 

[Lay]

I was having this conversation recently. I think it was either Clarke Carlisle or someone similar who said a lot of black players get referred to as unintelligent, clumsy etc moreso than white players

 

[NYAS]

It really has been clear as day since the beginning. Don't forget the "big lump" and "donkey" references on here. It's really pathetic. Why would you even use those terms to describe someone with a perceived lack of technical ability? It's a really strange choice to make.

 

[Womp]

It really has been clear as day since the beginning. Don't forget the "big lump" and "donkey" references on here. It's really pathetic. Why would you even use those terms to describe someone with a perceived lack of technical ability? It's a really strange choice to make.

TBF those terms have been used to describe a few white players too. On the topic at hand, I agree though. Such a joke that it's 2017 and racism is still prevalent in our World.

 

[AR87]

Good article. Read it yesterday.

 

[Harry190]

I was listening to someone talk about Lukaku's touch on French tv. He only had good things to say. Mentioned how the player himself was aware of his lack of finesse( personally believe it's because of the size of his feet) and that he'd spend hours and hours and hours as a child training in the garage to improve.

 

[edcunited1878]

I believe a lot of English pundits don't take their job seriously and put in the hours and study time required to be really good at being an analyst and therefore should be considered much more lazy than many of the players they are trying to analyze on the television. In addition, the English media are very partial to their national team players and dare not to stir the pot too much.

How many English journos are colored, doing match commentary (not studio sound bites), etc. I don't believe there's a lot.

 

[The BlackGaijin]

Thank God some are starting to get it. Pogba is here as a creative midfielder Matic and harrera are the more combative ones. But his skin means he will always be described as a fast, athletic workhorse. Sometimes I feel like I am in the matrix when people compare Kane and Lukaku

 

[Sweet Square]

Very good article.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

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Must read article, and I agree wholeheartedly with the way the media portray black player's in comparison to white player's.

Absolute tosh. Utter horror show of an article. Go looking for an angle and you'll find one.

Lukaku is not as nuanced as Sheringham or as naturally talented with his feet as Ibra and I'd argue he doesn't have that natural ability that Ruud had. Yet I could trade those three out for Djorkaeff, Henry and Weah. It's not a black/white thing.

But he's never called out for being 'unintelligent' by the majority. He always comes across as measured and is referenced for being cerebral more often than the opposite. People often cite him as a huge study of the game and his ability to speak several languages.

Lukaku is more like Ronaldo than anyone else. 'How do I get better? Because I'll do it all'. He's not the guy that floats and plays intricate one-twos. He doesn't ghost into penalty boxes. He's frickin huge. He's a danger that defenders have to pay attention to all the time. He works on his movement to find space. He works on his weaknesses. That's a far better character trait to have than almost anything else.

The Henry comment was not "Oh, people say black players are stupid". Peoples say that footballers are stupid.

ALL footballers get called stupid more often than not. Clumsy footballers get called clumsy. We didn't call Wellbeck Bambi because he's black. We did it because he couldn't stay on his feet. Ditto for Falcao. Forlan copped the same kind of flack. Roy Keane would have been called all the same things if he was White & English or Black & French.

The starting point for the article could, and should have been "Lukaku and Pogba don't get enough credit for how damn good they are". But that will provoke zero controversy, so let's go with race.

To be clear : I'm sure there are some in the media with daft ideas and ideals. Not really shining a light on that. Just pointing out that the 'article' is shite.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Good article.

Highlights the lack of understanding most former players have for the game, to think you have former England internationals whose best analysis is that Pogba is big & strong is ludicrous. The trick of drawing a line along a back four on a big screen to demonstrate the pundit's 'tactical knowledge' is also wearing thin.

 

[Jaybomb]

If the signings were reversed, we would be getting mugged off by the media for paying 75m for a bench warmer and Chelsea would be favourites for the league after signing "the next Drogba"

It's typical ABU bollocks. Even when Ferguson won 13 league titles, they never gave us the credit we deserved. Always talking about corruption and other nonsense without any evidence to back it up.

The fact that we have been so dominant over the years, people start to question how fair it was is actually a pretty big compliment when you put it like that.

 

[Martial]

Yep, certain negative traits are definitely used more when referring to Black players than the average player.

There will always be people who deny racism exists anymore, insisting that minories have the same rights to vote and equal rights by law now etc and insisting that people must just reaching for something that does not exist anymore, but the reality is that racism is a lot more nuanced than that.

 

[ATXRedDevil]

Absolute tosh. Utter horror show of an article. Go looking for an angle and you'll find one.

Lukaku is not as nuanced as Sheringham or as naturally talented with his feet as Ibra and I'd argue he doesn't have that natural ability that Ruud had. Yet I could trade those three out for Djorkaeff, Henry and Weah. It's not a black/white thing.

But he's never called out for being 'unintelligent' by the majority. He always comes across as measured and is referenced for being cerebral more often than the opposite. People often cite him as a huge study of the game and his ability to speak several languages.

Lukaku is more like Ronaldo than anyone else. 'How do I get better? Because I'll do it all'. He's not the guy that floats and plays intricate one-twos. He doesn't ghost into penalty boxes. He's frickin huge. He's a danger that defenders have to pay attention to all the time. He works on his movement to find space. He works on his weaknesses. That's a far better character trait to have than almost anything else.

The Henry comment was not "Oh, people say black players are stupid". Peoples say that footballers are stupid.

ALL footballers get called stupid more often than not. Clumsy footballers get called clumsy. We didn't call Wellbeck Bambi because he's black. We did it because he couldn't stay on his feet. Ditto for Falcao. Forlan copped the same kind of flack. Roy Keane would have been called all the same things if he was White & English or Black & French.

The starting point for the article could, and should have been "Lukaku and Pogba don't get enough credit for how damn good they are". But that will provoke zero controversy, so let's go with race.

To be clear : I'm sure there are some in the media with daft ideas and ideals. Not really shining a light on that. Just pointing out that the 'article' is shite.

Well put.

Also, there's a difference between being racist and acknowledging the innate differences between races. Calling someone an unintelligent footballer because they're black is just ignorant. Calling someone powerful and athletic who happens to be black might very well have to do with the fact that they're black... The NFL and NBA is black-dominated in a majority white country for a reason...

 

[Adnan]

Danny Murphy's analysis of Pogba was shocking on MOTD. Completely overlooking his technical qualities and highlighting his physical ones.

Black player's are also referred to as 'beasts' much more often compared to non black player's due to their physicality.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Good article.

Highlights the lack of understanding most former players have for the game, to think you have former England internationals whose best analysis is that Pogba is big & strong is ludicrous. The trick of drawing a line along a back four on a big screen to demonstrate the pundit's 'tactical knowledge' is also wearing thin.

This doesn't happen. People mention his athleticism a lot. But they always highlight his touch, several key passes. His ability to carry the ball through lines in midfield.

Pundits have routinely highlighted that it's not Pogbas game to sit in a two and break up play and that it's a waste of money if Jose expects that of him. That his talents are as an attacking threat and as a ball carrier.

If anything they've been highlighting how big and strong Matic is. A white guy. They did the same with Ibra "He'll beat up defences".

You could re-write that whole article and quote how Serbs/Russians etc are all tagged with 'Big, tough, hard men".

Yes, sometimes descriptors are used that are lazy. But they're not grounded in racism ffs.

 

[dichinero]

It's sad but it's standard stuff these days

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

This reminded me of a video I just watched today from my favorite youtuber Deluded Gooner. Very honest, unbiased Arsenal fan who I would definetely recommend to any football fan, speaks his mind on a range of topics every day

 

[Soski]

I'm shocked at how many people on here are saying that is a good article. The amount of black players that have been lauded for their intelligence and skill with the ball has been historic and is ongoing. Lukaku seems a very intelligent person from the interviews I've seen, and I have no doubt he works hard and studies the game to improve further....but he still comes off as clumsy at times in the build up. He has a great eye for a finish...but he is not a refined footballer in any other aspects of the game. This has nothing to do with race, or build...and it's just who he is as a footballer. This isn't even worthy of thread...just close it.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Well put.

Also, there's a difference between being racist and acknowledging the innate differences between races. Calling someone an unintelligent footballer because they're black is just ignorant. Calling someone powerful and athletic who happens to be black might very well have to do with the fact that they're black... The NFL and NBA is black-dominated in a majority white country for a reason...

Exactly. It's one of many descriptors. As long as it's not the only one used it's not racism or even wrong.

People called Vardy unintelligent. Ditto for Rooney. If either of those players were black some people would have a problem with that I guess?

Also, for what it's worth, Yaya Toure is often lazy. Everyone knows it. He's been a world class midfielder for months at a time. But sometimes he clearly just thinks 'Fcuk it' and it's like playing with 10 men. Aaron Ramsey does the same. It's a measure of attitude not skin colour.

 

[Offside]

For years pundits have been labelling black players with attributes of strength and pace and nothing else. Murphy saying it about that Pogba goal which was a delicate chip in front of the net is hilarious. What a clown.

 

[SteveJ]

Tv companies need to stop employing pundits just because they're 'big names'; and also those who merely phone it in.

 

[Ramshock]

This stuff has been prevalent in US sports for a long time. The old chestnut was until recent times that black players werent smart enough to play QB.

 

[The BlackGaijin]

Well put.

Also, there's a difference between being racist and acknowledging the innate differences between races. Calling someone an unintelligent footballer because they're black is just ignorant. Calling someone powerful and athletic who happens to be black might very well have to do with the fact that they're black... The NFL and NBA is black-dominated in a majority white country for a reason...

Hehe.. "Differences between the races" . What differences? That black players tend to be more athletic but lack cleverness while it's the opposite for white players?

Also do you guys think we are making this shite up? American football has dealt with this for a long time. There was a time it was said black players didn't have the intelligence to play quarter back. At least it seems now football is starting to talk about it. I know the topic will make some feel uneasy and defensive.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Danny Murphy's analysis of Pogba was shocking on MOTD. Completely overlooking his technical qualities and highlighting his physical ones.

Black player's are also referred to as 'beasts' much more often compared to non black player's due to their physicality.

See @ATXRedDevil post above. It's not racism that sees that happen.

Andy Carroll, Duncan Ferguson, John Terry, Ibra... all have been called 'Beast' at some point. The list goes on. If you're big and muscular you're going to be called a beast (or similar). There are a far higher number of black players that are tall and muscular. As humans, they carry muscle better and in different ways*. That's not racist.

[*Don't take that comment to it's Nth degree. There are various kinds of white people and black people. I'm clearly not talking about Black South-Eastern Africans vs White Icelanders]

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Hehe.. "Differences between the races" . What differences? That black players tend to be more athletic but lack cleverness while it's the opposite for white players?

Also do you guys think we are making this shite up? American football has dealt with this for a long time. There was a time it was said black players didn't have the intelligence to play quarter back. At least it seems now football is starting to talk about it. I know the topic will make some feel uneasy and defensive.

Americans have a very different attitude to race.

 

[macheda14]

I believe a lot of English pundits don't take their job seriously and put in the hours and study time required to be really good at being an analyst and therefore should be considered much more lazy than many of the players they are trying to analyze on the television. In addition, the English media are very partial to their national team players and dare not to stir the pot too much.

How many English journos are colored, doing match commentary (not studio sound bites), etc. I don't believe there's a lot.

Just so you know you can't say coloured anymore. The correct term is person of colour.

 

[The Mitcher]

As a mixed race person, I never see this as a black thing. I have lost count on this forum how many times we've called footballers of all races, athletic, powerful, big and praised their technical ability. I don't see this bias that everyone else seems to see in labeling black players "powerful and athletic". If a footballer is powerful and athletic, its because they are powerful and athletic and there's plenty of white and black footballers who fit that description, Lukakku included, and its not racist to point that out. But i also see lukkaku praised for his abilities as a striker too, not just his physical prowess. Neymar doesn't get that, he's named as a technical wizard and superstar. Article is stupid.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

Brilliant article. Would read again.

I never really took much notice of Lukaku's interviews and such before being linked to us but was impressed by how he studies the game and articulated various aspects - so when Pardew mentioned the thing about 'cleverness' the other day I was thinking what an ignorant wanker.

We still have a long way to go with racism in general though. Certain perceptions have been sewn so deep in to the fabric of society's consciousness, it will take another couple generations yet of calling this stuff out to truly begin to dismantle it.

 

[The Mitcher]

Just so you know you can't say coloured anymore. The correct term is person of colour.

There's literally no difference in those terms. Its the exact same phrase just one is a euphemism essentially.

 

[Adnan]

It's not just pundits, I've seen alot of the same stuff growing up from teachers at schools to just everyday people having the same opinion on black player's due their physical traits.

 

[The BlackGaijin]

Americans have a very different attitude to race.

Cmon we all have biases. Those who are willing to accept that maybe they have biased views of others can actually do something to change it. Why did some people go so defensive so quickly?

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

It's not just pundits, I've seen alot of the same stuff growing up from teachers at schools to just everyday people having the same opinion on black player's due their physical traits.

Have you ever seen someone call a Black player strong, or athletic, or explosive, that wasn't any of those things?

If you're big, tall and fast, I'm going to say "That guy is big tall and fast".

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

Have you ever seen someone call a Black player strong, or athletic, or explosive, that wasn't any of those things?

If you're big, tall and fast, I'm going to say "That guy is big tall and fast".

It's more about how those qualities are accentuated over others tbh

 

[The BlackGaijin]

Have you ever seen someone call a Black player strong, or athletic, or explosive, that wasn't any of those things?

If you're big, tall and fast, I'm going to say "That guy is big tall and fast".

That's not the point. We are saying that a player like pogba is not only that. His best attribute is his technical ability, his vision, his creativity. But he is seldom given credit for that same as many other black players.

 

[SteveJ]

I mentioned the book Heart of Darkness in a post recently. For nigh-on a century, the book was regarded by Western critics as a humane masterpiece which exposed the rapacious hypocrisy of white traders exploiting & mistreating black people. It took a famous black novelist, respected by white academics, to upset the self-congratulatory complacency and point out the racist content in the book; it took the novelist's heartfelt rage and eloquence to make me understand a different perspective on a work I admired with all too little discernment. On that note, I'd like to read opinions on the article from the Caf's black posters, as their views should surely be prioritised.

 

[Adnan]

Have you ever seen someone call a Black player strong, or athletic, or explosive, that wasn't any of those things?

If you're big, tall and fast, I'm going to say "That guy is big tall and fast".

I've seen a former PE teacher put a black kid on the wing in football practice cos he assumed he would be fast due to the colour of his skin. I can give many more examples.

 

[Listar]

Do we think Henry is one of the most intelligent striker ever? Is Henry a person of colour? If both are yes then I am not sure if the point of this article is valid.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

It's more about how those qualities are accentuated over others tbh

How so? As humans we identify the things that deviate from our sense of normal.

I highly doubt you've ever heard a science teacher say "Yep, Jon is one of my best students. He's athletic and powerful"

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I've seen a former PE teacher put a black kid on the wing in football practice cos he assumed he would be fast due to the colour of his skin. I can give many more examples.

Was he fast?

I was 5ft5in and fast as a kid. How many times do you think I got asked to play centre back at a new club?

Generalisations and assumptions are not racist commentaries.