B20
HEY EVERYONE I IGNORE SOMEONE LOOK AT ME
Not even any room for the Welsh or Scots.You brexiter are proven liar straight away by your own words. How about look at gem by yourself a bit earlier :
Not even any room for the Welsh or Scots.You brexiter are proven liar straight away by your own words. How about look at gem by yourself a bit earlier :
He one of those who hate McTominay probably.Not even any room for the Welsh or Scots.
That's terrible. Let's see what happens if @Blackice64 and co are ever asked to do that. The immigrant workers had nowhere to turn but needed to work.There's a reason why 'low-skilled immigrant workers' were so often welcomed here: they were ripe for exploitation by disgraceful, law-breaking bosses. From my own experience, I've seen foreign workers pressurised to work another 16-hour shift straight after completing an 8-hour one...and at no overtime rate.
I don't see any other way. The UK needs the immigrant workers as there aren't enough British willing or able to do all the jobs, and the EU can't have all those people being sent home to sit on the dole in countries where they don't have enough jobs for the people that are there now.Unfortunately this will be the likely outcome.
If small European Leagues could hold on to their talented youngsters instead of them getting plundered by the PL and other European superpowers they would make even more money and elevate their own leagues.Beyond all else, doesn't the business model of foreign clubs depend on British clubs paying over the odds for foreign talent? I never hear anybody make the argument but I've always presumed it to be true.
I was referring to football specifically, not the broader immigration argument. I think limitations on immigration would benefit English and European football. The status quo only helps football's behemoths to consolidate their power. It's a perfect illustration of the hard left argument against the EU.I don't see any other way. The UK needs the immigrant workers as there aren't enough British willing or able to do all the jobs, and the EU can't have all those people being sent home to sit on the dole in countries where they don't have enough jobs for the people that are there now.
There is no chance the PL will get special treatment.
They're absolutely ruining the Sunday leagues. The illegal ones are always diving.Low-skilled immigrant footballers
Italy coach Roberto Mancini bemoaned the dearth of Italian players in Serie A as he focuses on youth in his attempt to get the Azzurri back to the top of international football.
The national team is at a low point after missing the World Cup for the first time in nearly six decades.
According to statistics cited by Italian national news agency Ansa, only 30 percent of footballers who ply their trade in Serie A are eligible to play for the national team -- compared to 60 percent 12 years ago.
"The use of Italian players has never been so low here and so we need to invent something," Mancini said at the Azzurri's Coverciano training complex in Florence on Monday.
"So for that reason I have called up certain players. Because I believe that there are very good Italians, certainly better than so many foreigners who are playing in their place."
Exactly.
Full English please.
This could mean more British lads getting a chance.. (where as they normally wouldn't think of lads like Morrison etc) The Premier League has too many foreigners in! it's hurting our national teams TBH, as good as the product is to watch.
Instead of seeing Brexit as this big negative.. let's give it a chance and see it as an opportunity to make things better, and fairer, across the board.
I think it would probably help the league too, but in the giant behemoth that is Brexit the Premier League is a minor footnote. They've got 6 months left to salvage something out of the mess so far, there's no way football gets special treatment ahead of something like finance or IT.If small European Leagues could hold on to their talented youngsters instead of them getting plundered by the PL and other European superpowers they would make even more money and elevate their own leagues.
I was referring to football specifically, not the broader immigration argument. I think limitations on immigration would benefit English and European football. The status quo only helps football's behemoths to consolidate their power. It's a perfect illustration of the hard left argument against the EU.
Why do you believe British clubs are discrimating against the native citizens just to hire players that either inferior or at same level? Makes no sense. No club in their right mind would prefer a foreign player over a home grown one if they are at same level. Even financially british talent still attracts the best bids in English market. You have the mixed up causation with correlation here. Decreasing quality of english talent as compared to foreignplayers is one of the the causes of reduction in number of home nations' players in top leagues. I doubt british clubs suddenly developed a fetish for foreign players and start discrimianting against local talent due to the same.The best players can still live and work in England, but it would mean the rift-raft of expensive foreign imports that are no better than our own British lads will stop. Win-win really is like the poster above said, it is better for smaller European leagues too.
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Good GodCan’t have it both ways
Brexit played on the dumb white racist crowd and the strangely fanaticals much like trump did in the US
Trump should be in jail by now
Brexit is a disaster for the uk
It's about developing talent. When you can bring in a cheap 'experienced' foreign import their is little impetus to develop a youngster through their growing pains.Why do you believe British clubs are discrimating against the native citizens just to hire players that either inferior or at same level? Makes no sense. No club in their right mind would prefer a foreign player over a home grown one if they are at same level. Even financially british talent still attracts the best bids in English market. You have the mixed up causation with correlation here. Decreasing quality of english talent as compared to foreignplayers is one of the the causes of reduction in number of home nations' players in top leagues. I doubt british clubs suddenly developed a fetish for foreign players and start discrimianting against local talent due to the same.
I am in agreement with a Liverpool fan.No sarcasm? White text?
I guess you're right. I can't wait to flog Salah & trying our best to repel transfer interest for Danny Ings from Man City.
(International football is kinda unimportant to me, and there's absolutely no way I'd want to sacrifice 2 years of proper high quality football for a false sense of patriotism).
People really exaggerate this point. One of the reasons why England makes the most money is b/c of the market is captures from being an English league. English is the most ubiquitous language in the world, thus companies see larger marketing opportunities in English speaking countries. Brexit won't change that. There is a reason why clubs like Liverpool and Arsenal see huge commercial success without winning much in the last 20 years. Secondly, Brexit has nothing to do with the other European super powers. They can plunder to their hearts content.If small European Leagues could hold on to their talented youngsters instead of them getting plundered by the PL and other European superpowers they would make even more money and elevate their own leagues.
I was referring to football specifically, not the broader immigration argument. I think limitations on immigration would benefit English and European football. The status quo only helps football's behemoths to consolidate their power. It's a perfect illustration of the hard left argument against the EU.
I concede that you have a point on the fact that the EU will remain the same for the other European clubs regardless, thus the plundering can continue.People really exaggerate this point. One of the reasons why England makes the most money is b/c of the market is captures from being an English league. English is the most ubiquitous language in the world, thus companies see larger marketing opportunities in English speaking countries. Brexit won't change that. There is a reason why clubs like Liverpool and Arsenal see huge commercial success without winning much in the last 20 years. Secondly, Brexit has nothing to do with the other European super powers. They can plunder to their hearts content.
Just because the Hoffenheims and Lilles of the world can keep their players doesn't mean they will magically grow their market size and revenues. Perhaps through competition bonuses but there is very little trickle down effect in vying for European football. If that were the case Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Bayern should have twice as large of a following than all of the top 6 english clubs, but of course it doesn't work that way. An addressable market is difficult to change and no amount of economic voodoo with change that.
Furthermore, it's a contradiction to say "this will reduce the amount for low-skilled foreign footballers in England" and in the same breath say "the lower leagues will make more money from keeping their players". You actually think selling the Markovics, Herreras, Batshuayis, Mkhitaryans, and Capoues isn't a good thing for these clubs? There are only a finite amount of clubs willing to play 20M+ for players and most of them reside in the premier league (look what newly promoted teams spent this summer)
Lastly, British talent will be even more costly. Why? Because Brexit artificially raises demand for British players. The Barkeys and Wilshires of the world will be grossly overpaid relative to the talent of their foreign peers. This is already happening right now, but I believe you will see an explosion in the transfer fees and wages for British players.
Everything I stated above sounds like a worse league and the only really benefactors are the Madrids, Barecelona, Bayerns, and Juves of the world (of which there are only a handful). As someone stated earlier, foreign footballers occupy the highest tax bracket and unquestionably a net positive to the British economy. The arguments for Brexit to be applied to English football striker me as xenophobic and poorly thought out.
Personally I don't think clubs prefer foreign players to British ones but the likes of Chelsea and City have been hoovering up all the good British youth players. It's basically caused inflation in the market. No other club can compete with the wages they're offering these youngsters and this makes good British players unavailable and more valuable.Why do you believe British clubs are discrimating against the native citizens just to hire players that either inferior or at same level? Makes no sense. No club in their right mind would prefer a foreign player over a home grown one if they are at same level. Even financially british talent still attracts the best bids in English market. You have the mixed up causation with correlation here. Decreasing quality of english talent as compared to foreign players is one of the the causes of reduction in number of home nations' players in top leagues. I doubt british clubs suddenly developed a fetish for foreign players and start discrimianting against local talent due to the same.
Oh I agree with you but it'd require long term thinking and all clubs to agree to something.If small European Leagues could hold on to their talented youngsters instead of them getting plundered by the PL and other European superpowers they would make even more money and elevate their own leagues.
Somebody finally gets it.
Its not the Premier League wanting it both ways. As for Brexit: They absolutely can create exemptions if they so desire, that was kind of the point in Brexit, that they werent being dictated to by a foreign power.
Oh that was the point of Brexit. Those nasty Europeans dictating stuff that we had power to veto. We will all be much better off when NewsCorp, Apple, Amazon and the like are dictating us and the EU no longer has our back.
Its not the Premier League wanting it both ways. As for Brexit: They absolutely can create exemptions if they so desire, that was kind of the point in Brexit, that they werent being dictated to by a foreign power.
The problem with the inflation of a British player's price tag is only a few teams can afford these players and talent will be concentrated at the top. Believe it or not, foreign players actually allow the Leicesters and Watfords of England a puncher's chance to compete with the top 6. After their academy's are drained of talent where do they turn to? They aren't getting a Kante or Marhez anymore. No offense, but this trickle down theory people try to push is a load of crap (look up Reganomics and how miserably it failed in the US).I concede that you have a point on the fact that the EU will remain the same for the other European clubs regardless, thus the plundering can continue.
That said, I believe there will be some benefit in the biggest culprit being restricted.
I don't really see the issue with the inflation of British player's price tag. With the right restrictions i.e. prevent a talent arms race from taking place at academy level, this means that the wealth will remain in England with a trickle down effect to our unique lower league system.
You third point is attributing a quote to me that I didn't make. Nonetheless, those players that you listed would get work permits anyway (with the exception of Hererra but his club didn't want to sell him anyway) I believe as they are established international players and qualify for exemption under the current rules. It would be non capped players, so yes, some gems like Kante wouldn't have arrived as young players on the cheap but only when they were established.
There is a sound economic argument regarding the tax that even your 'low skilled' players would pay but I just don't agree that having a higher bar for work permit qualifications for footballers is in anyway xenophobic. It just seems like a weak attempt a shutting down any discussion. There would still be loads of foreign players in the Premier League.
I also think its perfectly reasonable to view the current state of football as 'poorly thought out'.
Who is this person?Exactly.
Full English please.
This could mean more British lads getting a chance.. (where as they normally wouldn't think of lads like Morrison etc) The Premier League has too many foreigners in! it's hurting our national teams TBH, as good as the product is to watch.
Instead of seeing Brexit as this big negative.. let's give it a chance and see it as an opportunity to make things better, and fairer, across the board.
Yes and no, and I am not British. But as an United fan, and as someone who likes the EPL, I really don't care, exemptions should be granted to footballers so that we can still attract talents.If you are out, you are out. You can't use positive things and dismiss negative. It is not open buffet where you pick stake and skip spinach. Uk voted for exit and that goes for every area in country, from economy to sport.
Wow someone is triggered. At no point did I say this was my opinion, or that I agreed with it, or that there was even any logic in it, but it doesn't detract from the fact this was one of the key discussion points around Brexit. To now state Britain will be unable to create it's own exceptions and exemptions within it's own immigration law is as dumb as those you gleefully mock every chance you get. Still, I'm happy for the discussion to return to point at hand and for you to explain to me why Brexit will mean it will be impossible for clubs to sign the "next Kante."Oh that was the point of Brexit. Those nasty Europeans dictating stuff that we had power to veto. We will all be much better off when NewsCorp, Apple, Amazon and the like are dictating us and the EU no longer has our back.
I guess we won’t be looking to trade with our biggest trading partner either because obviously we’re not going to be dictated by a foreign power’s regulations.
We’re going to be so much better off when we’re out, right? Lower quality of life in basically every criteria, but at least we will be out.
Not sure what Ronald Regan did in the 1980s in America would have to do with how the Premier League would implement any policy in 2018.The problem with the inflation of a British player's price tag is only a few teams can afford these players and talent will be concentrated at the top. Believe it or not, foreign players actually allow the Leicesters and Watfords of England a puncher's chance to compete with the top 6. After their academy's are drained of talent where do they turn to? They aren't getting a Kante or Marhez anymore. No offense, but this trickle down theory people try to push is a load of crap (look up Reganomics and how miserably it failed in the US).
The third point wasn't meant to be attributed to you specifically. I was just using my post to address another point (I only have 5 a day). Regardless, players like Coutinho, Cesc Fabregas, Lukaku, and Ronaldo can't come to England when they do. So it's not really some gems it's A LOT of gems and some on the best players in the league.
There is a reason I said it "strikes me a xenophobic". Stating so isn't shutting down any discussion. In my view, the reasons being given are so frivolous that it seems like a weak attempt to compensate for the fact that some British people just don't want foreigners. That's xenophobia to me. My argument wasn't there wouldn't be any foreign players in the PL so I'm a bit confused as to why that even matters.
It's fine to view the current state of football as poorly thought out, but I was mainly addressing the points you made to illustrate how blanket statements like "it would benefit English and European football" and "the status quo only helps football's behemoths to consolidate their power" are extremely exaggerated and don't take into account very basic economic factors like addressable market size and the positive effects on foreign players.
It's nothing to do with the EU. After Brexit the UK could put a measure in allowing any immigrant that earns £60k + (top tax bracket) a year to be granted a WP. This would encompass all players. As a broader economic measure it seems eminently sensible.If you are out, you are out. You can't use positive things and dismiss negative. It is not open buffet where you pick stake and skip spinach. Uk voted for exit and that goes for every area in country, from economy to sport.
Again, there is cost associated with brining in foreign talent too. There is no reason that so many clubs would be overlook local talent for similar quality of players they are getting from abroad. Only reason some top clubs have to go shopping abroad was the disctance rule brought in some time back but even then there are so many clubs in England in every area that it should not impede a local talent from getting noticed.It's about developing talent. When you can bring in a cheap 'experienced' foreign import their is little impetus to develop a youngster through their growing pains.
Remember that the length of the average management tenure in the PL is 2 seasons. Managers are under a lot of pressure to deliver in a short space of time so take the easy option.
Those low-skilled immigrant workers are often doing jobs that the British don’t want to do. They contribute to our economy.It's the low-skilled immigrant workers and low-skilled immigrant footballers that Brexit should (if done properly) stop, and that means better and fairer for all Brits which is what we should care about.
The risk of buying a foreign player with a resume in the senior game is less than a playing a domestic youngster with no senior experience.Again, there is cost associated with brining in foreign talent too. There is no reason that so many clubs would be overlook local talent for similar quality of players they are getting from abroad. Only reason some top clubs have to go shopping abroad was the disctance rule brought in some time back but even then there are so many clubs in England in every area that it should not impede a local talent from getting noticed.
The risk might be less but the cost is definitely more, so it still doesn't make sense to prefer a foreigner over your own youth.The risk of buying a foreign player with a resume in the senior game is less than a playing a domestic youngster with no senior experience.
To me that is obvious, perhaps you disagree.
The point is that English clubs are so rich the cost factor is completely negated! That's like the whole point!!!The risk might be less but the cost is definitely more, so it still doesn't make sense to prefer a foreigner over your own youth.
If you're good enough, you will come through (e.g. Alexander-Arnold and Rashford). Foreigners are not impeding English talent, there simply aren't that many talented English young players at the moment.
We shall see in the next few years how true this is. England are currently U17 and U20 world champions. Let's see how many of those players come through to the first teams of their clubs and how many go into an endless cycle of loans and lower tier clubs. I suspect not many of them.The risk might be less but the cost is definitely more, so it still doesn't make sense to prefer a foreigner over your own youth.
If you're good enough, you will come through (e.g. Alexander-Arnold and Rashford). Foreigners are not impeding English talent, there simply aren't that many talented English young players at the moment.
I was referring to the trickle down comment you made (Reganomics = trickle down economics). My point is you can't assume benefits will trickle down to the lower leagues. Given the reduced labor market the big clubs could (and probably will) snatch up British youngsters from these academies at an increased rate and much earlier (if there are less foreign teenagers in top class academies they have to get the talent from somewhere). Increased competition for British talent isn't necessarily a good thing for lower leagues.Not sure what Ronald Regan did in the 1980s in America would have to do with how the Premier League would implement any policy in 2018.
I don't buy your xenophobia argument. When it comes to football I'd say 95% of fans do want foreign players in the league, even among Brexit supporters. Engineering a system to be develop youth domestic talent doesn't equate to xenophobia, even if a minority of foreign players are excluded from transferring to the league early in their career.
I don't believe my comments are exaggerated, debatable but not exaggerated. Truth is that we don't know how such measures would impact.
Sorry but fans can’t have it both ways. They can either scream NOW NOW NOW and accept foreign experienced players being bought cheaply or they can STFU and accept it will take years to develop young players and there will be bumps along the road. We live in a NOW society and never more so than within footballIt's about developing talent. When you can bring in a cheap 'experienced' foreign import their is little impetus to develop a youngster through their growing pains.
Remember that the length of the average management tenure in the PL is 2 seasons. Managers are under a lot of pressure to deliver in a short space of time so take the easy option.
Or people disillusioned by the current issue of immigration. It is no coincidence that UK crime has risen with the influx of immigrants over the last 40 years. That along with peoples fear of terrorism in the UK which has increased in the last 10 years. Also the increase of areas in the UK that can’t be accessed by white british due to being uwelcome and danger to their safety. Just see the rise in foreign areas of the UK that have no white habitants. I.e many areas in London, Manchester, Birmingham, Bradford, Leeds, Blackburn, Rochdale etc.Can’t have it both ways
Brexit played on the dumb white crowd and the strangely fanaticals much like trump did in the US
Trump should be in jail by now
Brexit is a disaster for the uk
The likes of Rashford and Wan Bissaka, two young players who happened to be 'good enough' only got their breaks through very fortuitous circumstances.We shall see in the next few years how true this is. England are currently U17 and U20 world champions. Let's see how many of those players come through to the first teams of their clubs and how many go into an endless cycle of loans and lower tier clubs. I suspect not many of them.
Yes. I think you are being ridiculous. I would bet the number of football fans that wouldn't want any foreign players in their side would be less than 5%. The vast majority are pro having foreign players in their side.Again, with all these frivolous arguments is it that crazy to think we are just dealing with plain old xenophobia? (and that isn't the same as racism)