And they only won it once, Hazard has how many PL titles?
Prime Hazard or Prime Salah?
- Thread starter tentan
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Hazard you pay to watch
Salah is a numbers man he is the modern day stats obsessed dream. I am choosing Hazard
Salah is a numbers man he is the modern day stats obsessed dream. I am choosing Hazard
The question is prime Hazard or prime Salah and I made my pick. You are welcomed to have a different opinion.
Ok, so I looked:
Hazard played 19 times against United, scoring 5 and assisting 2. In those 19 games, Chelsea won 8 times.
Salah, in 12 games against United has 12 goals and 4 assists. In those 12 games, Liverpool won 6 times.
I'm not a stats person, I only looked it up for my own curiosity. It does, however, paint a picture of Salah being more dominant, by every metric. If Chelsea would have won say 12 or 13 of those games, you could say that goals and assists don't paint a full picture. They didn't though, and this includes times when Chelsea were challenging on all fronts. Honestly, other than personal preference, I can't see how Hazard is better in any way.
Messi. Not likening them, just saying that only Messi has been as influential in that RWF position the last few years.
Yep and once he recovered from that injury he was fantastic again.
Not as easy as it seems. Chelsea never an all out attacking side like Pool under Klopp so Eden‘s stats will definitely look poorer. Still think prime Salah edges it because he was incredible clinical, prime Hazard more easy on the eye though imo.
I always wonder what can Hazard become if he has Ronaldo's work ethics and dedication.
Jose Mourinho and others had said this before that Hazard was awful in training.
“When he gets onto the pitch you don’t see the reflection of a week of work, you just see a reflection of his talent.....But in terms of his fitness, his speed, his condition, he would be a much better player [if he trained properly]. What you see is just the talent that got Eden to where he is."
John Obi Mikel, his former teammate at Chelsea, chipped in with his opinion in comments carried by Diario AS. “When we were training, he’d stand and wait for us until we finished,” he said. “He was the laziest player, but then on Sundays he was always the best in the game. He was incredible.
“He sometimes said ‘yes, I want to be so good, I can be. Not as good as Messi because he’s from another planet, but I think I can be close to Cristiano and even better’. Those were the words that came out of his mouth, but he’s not that dedicated. He doesn’t train well. He’s the worst trainer I’ve ever played with.”
Jose Mourinho and others had said this before that Hazard was awful in training.
“When he gets onto the pitch you don’t see the reflection of a week of work, you just see a reflection of his talent.....But in terms of his fitness, his speed, his condition, he would be a much better player [if he trained properly]. What you see is just the talent that got Eden to where he is."
John Obi Mikel, his former teammate at Chelsea, chipped in with his opinion in comments carried by Diario AS. “When we were training, he’d stand and wait for us until we finished,” he said. “He was the laziest player, but then on Sundays he was always the best in the game. He was incredible.
“He sometimes said ‘yes, I want to be so good, I can be. Not as good as Messi because he’s from another planet, but I think I can be close to Cristiano and even better’. Those were the words that came out of his mouth, but he’s not that dedicated. He doesn’t train well. He’s the worst trainer I’ve ever played with.”
Overrated is complete nonsense. How can a player be overrated when what people rate him for he was brilliant at?.
Scored over 100 goals in 7 seasons at Chelsea, created the most chances in EPL in his 7 seasons.
Arguably the best dribbler in Prem history, the most take ons. Had the most MOTM in Prem history until last season when Kane went ahead.
First player since Henry to get 16 goals and 15 assists, only 4th player to do so.
And arguably should of won 3 PFA awards instead of one and he won a young player of the season in 2014.
The difference between Messi and Ronaldo is bigger.
Messi is as "productive" and much better on the ball, meanwhile each is better at one of these things in Hazard and Salah comparison.
Not really ? Salah is the far better goal scorer and as good of a creator as Hazard going by the assists number.
Also the difference between Messi and Ronaldo wasn't that big while they were both in their prime.
Hazard has been washed out since he was 28 which is embarrassing in comparison to most of the elite players of his era, not just Salah.
Also, this concept of productivity is so badly used.
Player 1 gets the ball on the half-way line, dribbles two or three opposing players and reaches the front of the box(thing the Hazard did TONS of times, at least once in almost every game he played between 2013-2019); the player 2 runs through the space created and receives the ball from the player 1, then passes it to the player 3, who scores.
Productive players: Player 2 and Player 3
Non-productive player: Player 1
Player 1 gets the ball on the half-way line, dribbles two or three opposing players and reaches the front of the box(thing the Hazard did TONS of times, at least once in almost every game he played between 2013-2019); the player 2 runs through the space created and receives the ball from the player 1, then passes it to the player 3, who scores.
Productive players: Player 2 and Player 3
Non-productive player: Player 1
Last edited:
Yeah, but "going by the assists number" to measure creativity and playmaking is lazy and dumb.
Last edited:
Salah has the better numbers, and better stats not only against us. However i don’t remember Chelsea ever embarrassing us in the last 10 years like Liverpool have done in the same period and it was never down to Salah.
Hazard’s quality can never be described in stats, he was never a pure goalscorer or assist machine. However with his dribbling and rare ball carrying capability he was absolutely priceless and a joy to watch.
I guess on the same basis Thiago Silva is levels above Terry, Ferdinand, Vidic? Or almost any defender to ever walk this earth for that matter.
You can compare players in the same era only due to the advance in sport science and nutrition.
Hazard is a year older but still has more than 60 appearances at club level than Salah. If we factor that in instead of just the age than Salah is even younger than Hazard. Hazard also has 35 more caps so it's almost 100 more appearances.
Thought this was interesting so looking deeper into the numbers, they both played at the highest level for around the same time. The difference seems to be that when hazard first broke through at Lille he played a bit more than Salah. Other than that, he just doesn't take care of himself and it shows every summer. Imagine if he was professional, like Ronaldo.
I'd rather watch prime Hazard but I'd rather have prime Salah on my team.
Depends on the squad. For a midtable side, I would take Hazard. For a team pushing for trophies, I take Salah.
There was a fear to facing Hazard that I haven’t felt for many players as a Manchester United fan. Hazard has many games where he has toyed with us, Arsenal and Liverpool.
Salah has had many great games and scored worldies in big PL games but Hazard has at times looked by far the best player on the pitch with playing with and against world class players.
He fecked us so often that the one game we totally neutralised him, we treated Herrera like a god and still remember it to this day. That was how good he could be.
Hazard is the anti-stats player. It can’t be downplayed that he should have more goal involvements than he ended up with but in the flow of the game he was absolutely ridiculous. The last 15mins of his game against Brazil in the World Cup is the best example of this. It was world class play at a hugely vital moment for Belgium but nothing he did in that period resulted in a goal or assist.
Salah has had many great games and scored worldies in big PL games but Hazard has at times looked by far the best player on the pitch with playing with and against world class players.
He fecked us so often that the one game we totally neutralised him, we treated Herrera like a god and still remember it to this day. That was how good he could be.
Hazard is the anti-stats player. It can’t be downplayed that he should have more goal involvements than he ended up with but in the flow of the game he was absolutely ridiculous. The last 15mins of his game against Brazil in the World Cup is the best example of this. It was world class play at a hugely vital moment for Belgium but nothing he did in that period resulted in a goal or assist.
Everyone's favourite site Fbref does a decent job showing the differences between the two. One primarily a freak goalscorer and the other who is basically great at everything.
Salah 17/18
Hazard 18/19
Would've loved to see them play together for 2-3 years in their primes as the contrast in styles would've been devastating for opponents.
Salah isn’t primarily a goalscorer for at least the last 3 years, for exampleEveryone's favourite site Fbref does a decent job showing the differences between the two. One primarily a freak goalscorer and the other who is basically great at everything.
Salah 17/18
Hazard 18/19
Would've loved to see them play together for 2-3 years in their primes as the contrast in styles would've been devastating for opponents.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Hes created more ‘big chances’ than any other player in the top 5 leagues this season, I think he is more of a creator nowadays than he is a goalscorer.
Hazard was a top player though and was hamstring by playing under defensive managers, at times Chelsea tactic was literally keep tight at the back and past it to Hazard, at his peak he could do everything and was an underrated finisher, why he didn’t get more goals I would say apart from being under more defensively inclined managers was due to his movement, he didn’t have movement on par with other great wide forwards of the time, like Son Salah and of course Ronaldo.
He was the best player at that World Cup.
Yeah I was going to say that in recent times he's surprised me at how he's improved creatively. 17/18 is probably considered his peak season so didn't want to be disingenuous by picking and comparing another one.
Different players but great in their own way. I feel Salah has more chance to play without shackles at Pool. Hazard has had a ridiculously poor end to his career, it is kinda embarrassing for the player he was...so I have to comfortably pick Salah. Shame by these accounts that Hazard was so lazy for a professional athlete.fantastic player during his best days. Wish we could have signed him.
Messi has been a GOAT level playmaker and dribbler while Ronaldo has been none of those even at his prime.. Ronaldo can only claim to match him in goal scoring and that's where it ends.
And no you can't go just by assist numbers to compare creation skills, that makes Haaland a better playmaker/creator than Xavi, Modric, Scholes
Very few players are unstoppable and Hazard certainly wasn't. He was excellent and had some brilliant games but he's certainly no better an individual player than Salah. He was a pretty dribbler though. I think your bolded comment speaks to why some people may rate him above Salah. Though I think it's crazy as he hasn't shown anything like the productivity or consistency that Salah has. Also, to dismiss Salah as 'just' the tip of Liverpool's attacking sword is silly.
Please don't make this thread about Messi vs Ronaldo!Messi has been a GOAT level playmaker and dribbler while Ronaldo has been none of those even at his prime.. Ronaldo can only claim to match him in goal scoring and that's where it ends.
And no you can't go just by assist numbers to compare creation skills, that makes Haaland a better playmaker/creator than Xavi, Modric, Scholes
I think you just suffer from the short football memory syndrome. I've never seen Salah to dominate a game like Hazard has done, never. And when shit hit at Liverpool, it was mostly Mane who pulled them out when it counted. And yeah as an individual player Hazard was better easily. Some people pull the stats sheet and determine their standings.
And it's not like Hazard was a season wonder, he did it on consistent basis for Chelsea, but obviously suffered from the managerial socket changes with Abramovic. Salah has had the luck to work with one of the best coaches of the last 20 years for a consistent basis, outside of that Liverpool team, he'd never get those numbers he did.
you'd think Salah is just some pace merchant poacher going on some of the posts in this thread.
Prime Salah, easy. Much more influent player than Hazard was for Chelsea.
How so?
Ronaldo was a great dribbler when he was younger. Watch some of his videos.Messi has been a GOAT level playmaker and dribbler while Ronaldo has been none of those even at his prime.. Ronaldo can only claim to match him in goal scoring and that's where it ends.
And no you can't go just by assist numbers to compare creation skills, that makes Haaland a better playmaker/creator than Xavi, Modric, Scholes
I can and I will.
I see a lot of you talking about longevity where Salah wins easily. But talking prime performance. Hazard was able to beat half the team himself and score a goal out of nothing. Salah comes close but in terms of dribbling and entertainment value Hazard comes out on top for me. And he also doesn't play for Liverpool. Give them nothing but take from them everything. 
Iniesta isnt really captured by those metrics
A united forum is overwhelmingly supporting Salah. Take what you get and run!
Very often(mostly, I'd say) the assist is a trivial pass, when the assistant and the finisher are already in great positions, whereas some players who operate deeper on the field can produce great runs, passes and link up plays without get the same amount of assists.
Hazard wasn't this kind of winger attacker who receives the ball in the final third to cut inside and shot or run to the line to cross; he had to get the ball from DM and start creating by himself.
Not when it correlates with the chance creation.
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created
Salah has been in the top 10 players creating big chances every season in the league for the last 6 years, and he's leading the list this current season.
What about this ?
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Salah is the main force in Liverpool's attack either scoring or creating chances and assisting. The idea Hazard is a lot better creator than Salah is just a fantasy. In 2018/2019 when they played together in the league, the difference was only 2 big chances created between both, Hazard created 18 and Salah 16.