Quantity over Quality?

[032Devil]

Last summer Jose Mourinho bought three players for about £160m and one free transfer.

What the season of 2016-17 showed was that although these new acquisition undoubtedly added to the quality of the team, there were other areas that desperately needed improving:

Defence: rightback, left back and another centre back (Smalling & Jones highly injury prone)
Midfield: Still lacking in depth
Attack: SAF had four quality strikers at the height of his success - Mourinho has an aged temporary solution (Ibrahimovic), and 2 young strikers

That's roughly half-a-dozen or more players we need to be a consistent force again. Should Mourinho continue in the vein he did last summer by buying another 3 to 4 again that will leave us short in some departments or should he sacrifice quality (and avoid buying someone for say £100m), and buy shrewd quantity that would solve most of problem areas?

If he buys another 3 or 4, our overall performances will improve but we will continue to have problems. But if he buys the second, third or fourth best we might be able to solve more of our problems. After all, Tottenham have a quality team with possible only 1 or 2 star. SAF too had stars in his team but also had solid performers like: Denis Irwin and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer who had no reputation and Edwin van der Sar with his best years behind him. There were many others, but on the whole they had pedigree.

What do you think?

 

[Crashoutcassius]

It's a good question but it just seems like there's no value at all out there any more. Makes the ibra deal from last summer so good.

I would be happy with a few bailly type signing. Someone like Naingollan would be great too if we could get it done at 35m because or age of whatever. A ready made player that isn't going to come at the 80m fee that a 21 year old would cost

 

[Damien]

I think we'll make five first team signings at most.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Quality every single day of the week. Our biggest issue this season has been not finishing very good chances made so even one outstanding striking addition would IMO make a greater impact than 4 back up players.

I firmly believe it is better to get the right personnel in rather than spend money on make weights who really should be made up of academy graduates a la Lingard. These kinds of players will want to play for you regardless of how little involvement they have.

In fact the game today has shown that when in need, we can dip into the academy albeit in more extreme circumstances.

When you consider that we have now got the basis of a very good side:

De Gea
Valencia Bailly Rojo LB
Herrera Pogba
Mkhitaryan No10 Martial
Rashford/ST

It makes little to no sense to plug squad gaps especially at the expense of potential world class players.

 

[settembrini]

Absolutely we should buy quality over quantity. We don't need as many new signings as some people seem to think anyway.

edit: BenitoSTARR's post above is spot on.

 

[Attila]

Quality over quantity for me, fix this squad properly even if it takes longer

 

[el3mel]

At this time we need both quantity and quality, but 4 or 5 new starters are not low by any means imo.

Jose brought 4 players last season, 3 of them ( Bailly, Pogba and Mikhi ) are supposed to part of the team next season if Zlatan leaves. Adding 5 more starters to the them this summer we'll be talking about 8 changes in our starting line-up, with the 3 remaining players from our current starting XI are the ones deserving to be starting, as for example Valencia.

The team will be very different next season if we brought 5 quality players that immediately enter the starting line-up and perform.

 

[Dan]

I think we'll make five first team signings at most.

6 if De Gea leaves.

 

[Wallez]

I think we have a lot of cover in defense already, with some players on the top of their career, some really big talents, and players that can cover several positions. All we need to do is to bring Luke Shaw back to his best level, and replace one of Jones/Smalling with a top level centre back.
RB: Valencia, Darmian, TFM, Varela
CB: Bailly, Rojo, Tuanzebe, Jones, Smalling Blind
LB: Shaw, CBJ, Young

In midfield, I think the depth is ok if Carrick signs a new contract and Andreas Pereira and Januzaj come back form loan. Bring in an unfashionable defensive midfielder (a new John Obi Mikel), and a new top level number 10 or winger.

Up front, I agree that we are lacking depth. With Martial looking most comfortable as a winger, we really only have Rashford and Wilson (who will probably be sold or sent on loan). However, we don't need 4 brilliant strikers as Mourinho tend to play with one man up front. Sign a top level striker, use Rashford as backup and Martial as third choice.

 

[Handré1990]

It's quite simple, we need more quality. We brought four new players last summer, all four, I'd argue, have been among our best performers. Mkhi the odd one out, but he looks set to start the EL final, our most important game of the season. So ya, please don't take a book out of the LVG playbook and toss shit at the wall to see what sticks.

No problem with bringing in a couple of young talented cover/competition players mind, it's just that they shouldn't be relied upon to carry us. If these succeeed, it will be a bonus.

 

[Jericholyte2]

I think the issue at this point is we see players who are at "squad level" quality in our first team. I'll say in advance this is very much fantasy football thoughts, it it gets my point across.

CB: we've seen how reliant we were on Rojo since he's been injured but he shouldn't be a starter. Buy a top CB (easier said than done) and have Rojo as no.3

CM: Carrick (through age) and Fellaini (through being Fellaini) can do a job but shouldn't be relied upon. A Niangollan / Verratti moves them to no. 3 or 4

WING / ST: Lingard is the very definition f squad player for example. Can play cups etc but will never be a first team squad consistent player. Look at Bale, pre injuries, and move Lingard to bench.

Three signings that not only improve the first team, but automatically the squad by moving those not of the quality further away from the first team.

 

[davidmichael]

When you actually look at our squad as a whole and that's including youngsters from today or out on loan when on earth would we buy more filler to have quantity when what we seriously need is quality ?

Our bench is better than most if not all of the leagues bench as we have Romero, Shaw, Smalling, Jones, Carrick, Mata, Martial and before Zlatan was injured Rashford too and that's not including the youngsters or likes of Darmian, Rooney and Young who'll all likely be gone in the summer.

We need an alternative right back to Valencia, a centre back partner for Bailly, a left back, a defensive midfielder, a box to box midfielder, a right forward, a left forward and a striker and if De Gea goes then a goalkeeper but if we want to challenge for the title and IF we get Champions League football next season then we need quality.

 

[032Devil]

Quality every single day of the week. Our biggest issue this season has been not finishing very good chances made so even one outstanding striking addition would IMO make a greater impact than 4 back up players.

I firmly believe it is better to get the right personnel in rather than spend money on make weights who really should be made up of academy graduates a la Lingard. These kinds of players will want to play for you regardless of how little involvement they have.

In fact the game today has shown that when in need, we can dip into the academy albeit in more extreme circumstances.

When you consider that we have now got the basis of a very good side:

De Gea
Valencia Bailly Rojo LB
Herrera Pogba
Mkhitaryan No10 Martial
Rashford/ST

It makes little to no sense to plug squad gaps especially at the expense of potential world class players.

That’s fine but one aspect you are leaving out is the impact of injuries (in United’s case the enormous impact of injuries).

When Pogba is not playing our midfield is almost impotent. Same case with Ibrahimociv who has scored most of last season’s goals. Sadly, the squad players have not been of sufficient quality to be effective replacements for the likes of Pogba, Ibrahimovic or even Rashford and this is where we have a real problem. Our overall squad lacks quality and that, perhaps, needs attention too.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Bad idea. Throwing money.We must spend on proven quality. We have quantity in youth players. Is it better to have 100 mil midfield of pogba and tuanzebe or 100 mil midfield carvalho- schneiderlin?
Attack of Lukaku, rashford and wilson(harrop) or two new strikers of 50 mil each plus rashford.
Why spend 30 mil on new rb when you have tuanzebe for cover?
Lets just buy 3 world class players and put youth in backup. Quality wins games. Not quantity.

 

[DavosOfManc]

A balance between quantity and quality for me. While the team BenitoSTARR posted is indeed the basis being of a good side in my opinion, there are still 2/3 positions that need filling there - even if you are happy to accept Mkhi and Martial as being reliable enough to be regular starters. I'm not (and i don't think Mourinho is either), so that makes it 4/5. I'd love to throw some names in but i just don't feel comfortable doing so until Wednesday night is resolved...

 

[032Devil]

I think we have a lot of cover in defense already, with some players on the top of their career, some really big talents, and players that can cover several positions. All we need to do is to bring Luke Shaw back to his best level, and replace one of Jones/Smalling with a top level centre back.
RB: Valencia, Darmian, TFM, Varela
CB: Bailly, Rojo, Tuanzebe, Jones, Smalling Blind
LB: Shaw, CBJ, Young

In midfield, I think the depth is ok if Carrick signs a new contract and Andreas Pereira and Januzaj come back form loan. Bring in an unfashionable defensive midfielder (a new John Obi Mikel), and a new top level number 10 or winger.

Up front, I agree that we are lacking depth. With Martial looking most comfortable as a winger, we really only have Rashford and Wilson (who will probably be sold or sent on loan). However, we don't need 4 brilliant strikers as Mourinho tend to play with one man up front. Sign a top level striker, use Rashford as backup and Martial as third choice.

If we have an effective defence and midfield we might be able to revert to 442 instead of playing with just one striker up front. Even though Mourinho prefers to play with one striker up front, he does bring additional strikers on if we are not scoring goals in a game. And then there are injuries to consider. Would you really want Martial alone up front if other strikers are unavailable?

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

Id always advocate quality over quantity personally.

 

[Raoul]

Always quality over quantity.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

That’s fine but one aspect you are leaving out is the impact of injuries (in United’s case the enormous impact of injuries).

When Pogba is not playing our midfield is almost impotent. Same case with Ibrahimociv who has scored most of last season’s goals. Sadly, the squad players have not been of sufficient quality to be effective replacements for the likes of Pogba, Ibrahimovic or even Rashford and this is where we have a real problem. Our overall squad lacks quality and that, perhaps, needs attention too.

I took the question as being quality or quantity. Of course we have been affected by injuries but if you don't have the quality in the first place then your back up isn't going to matter one bit.

There are few players in world football that could possibly offer the same quality as Ibrahimovic and Pogba and those that do would never be content with a place on the bench in case they get injured so really it's a non option.

The best way to progress as a football club is to invest in quality additions to the first team and then at worst you have previous first team players as back up.

A balance between quantity and quality for me. While the team BenitoSTARR posted is indeed the basis being of a good side in my opinion, there are still 2/3 positions that need filling there - even if you are happy to accept Mkhi and Martial as being reliable enough to be regular starters. I'm not (and i don't think Mourinho is either), so that makes it 4/5. I'd love to throw some names in but i just don't feel comfortable doing so until Wednesday night is resolved...

E]

We obviously need a balance but right now what have we lacked most?

Gun to your head most here would rather see one outstanding player arrive than 4 average joes and rightly so.

We can only field 11 players each game and it is that first 11 that always has and always will be the most important barometer of success. Build the foundations before you paint the walls.

 

[Dong Fangzhuo]

Quality over quantity always. Even in our weakest positions we have enough quality to get us through a succesful season, provided we add to the overall quality of the team.

 

[Peanut Butter]

Liverpool are the best example of quantity over quality in recent times. The amount of dross they've signed is quite astonishing - to be fair, Klopp is trying to trim the squad and just rely on better players. We need to do the same.

 

[DavosOfManc]

We obviously need a balance but right now what have we lacked most?

Gun to your head most here would rather see one outstanding player arrive than 4 average joes and rightly so.

We can only field 11 players each game and it is that first 11 that always has and always will be the most important barometer of success. Build the foundations before you paint the walls.

To be fair, the thread's main question is pretty vague. Define quality and for that matter - define quantity. Like i said i'd prefer a mix of quantity and quality, and that doesn't mean i'd like to see us sign 4 Average Joes. You say there's a gun to my head so bear with me here. I'll talk as an optimist and assume we get the job done on Wednesday and, as such, can offer Champion's League to our new signings. There's no reason to my knowledge why we couldn't sign Griezmann and 2 or 3 other decent, more reasonably priced players. I accept your point that the core starting 11 will always be the most important thing for us to have a successful season, but this season and our injuries (as much as many other seasons) should show that having actual strength in depth is a close second in terms of importance. I'm not a finance-guru like some posters so i'm not entirely sure what Mourinho can expect to have to spend, but he's a shrewd guy and as a fan i trust him. Would i prefer he buys a player like Griezmann and 2 or 3 others who cost a lot less but perform well over him signing just Griezmann and, i dunno, Rodriguez? Yes, every time. Fact is we need some improvement or better backup all over the pitch.

 

[Mohammed Javed]

100% agree with quality over quantity. But i can easily see Jose signing at least 5 players in the summer. I do trust who will bring in. Jose believes in warriors who represent him on the field. I can't see many players who justify that so far. He doesn't seem to trust many of them out there. and ones that he does trust: a la Lingard don't have the quality to win titles. He has a good transfer record and knows what he needsso i do back him 100% in the transfer market.
On a side note it seems really hard for a player to win Jose over. I can see him selling a lot of players in the transfer window so expect to see many new players.

 

[KingMinger22]

Quality all day.

We lack it.

 

[Wallez]

If we have an effective defence and midfield we might be able to revert to 442 instead of playing with just one striker up front. Even though Mourinho prefers to play with one striker up front, he does bring additional strikers on if we are not scoring goals in a game. And then there are injuries to consider. Would you really want Martial alone up front if other strikers are unavailable?

No way that Mourinho will play with 2 strikers. If so, it will be more of a 4411 where the likes of Mata/Mkhitaryan/Lingard or even a new signing like Griezmann/James play behind a proper striker. Of course it would be a problem if we get long term injuries on two out of our thee strikers and have to play Martial up top, but we can't have a squad of 30 top players just because we might get some injuries. Look at the likes of Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Monaco and Chelsea, we have a lot more squad depth than any of them. The problem is that they have 12-13 top class players in their squad that start almost every game, while we have 4-5 players that are good enough to compete with them. We have too much quantity already, what we need to close the gap to the top teams in Europe is to give the squad a shot of quality.

 

[Successful]

I want quantity of quality. We will have to upper our scouts and find some huge talents. Anderson, Martial and Memphis kind of signings - but the ones that will work out. I also want some "on the verge of stepping up" signings like Vidic/Evra (Similar to some of Tottenham's players). I have a special wish for Piotr Zielinski. That should account for £60m at most. Then there should be a big signing.

With some players leaving we could do that with a net spending of 100m pounds.

 

[VeevaVee]

At the moment our players are crap at the fundamentals of football. Their passing, crossing, movement, and shooting is woeful. Upping the quality is what's needed.

 

[VeevaVee]

I want quantity of quality. We will have to upper our scouts and find some huge talents. Anderson, Martial and Memphis kind of signings - but the ones that will work out.

what terrible examples

 

[prtk0811]

You need quality for the first team, but quantity for backups , if the quality player is a injury prone player.

 

[RU Devil]

Quality all the time. One just has to remember Liverpool & Spurs splashing cash on a whole lot squad players with potential and going nowhere.

The problem is that we need a lot of new parts and even if we stay at only 4 new signings, the price is going to be astronomical. I realize the prices bandied about in the rumor stage are relatively high in comparison the final outcome, but I'd be shocked if Woody can bring in 4 quality players for less than 200mil, unless there is another Bailly-type signing out there. Maybe this is where agents clean up by 'facilitating' transfers. Yeah, maybe we're not paying the other club, but we're paying an arm & a leg to the agent.