Rafael for captain!

Walrus

Oppressed White Male
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
11,203
You may laugh and jibe, but I'm semi serious here.

The lad has often been MoM for me this season, he has been a breath of life into otherwise awful team performances. Not once have I seen a game with him that he hasn't given his all, kept trying to the final whistle and tried to drag up other teammates who at times have looked like they simply cannot be bothered.

He is the future. He has the passion, the energy, the presence on-field and certainly the talent to lead us. And it would also be a hell of a statement to the underperformers in the squad.
 
Rafael's performances have been over hyped to high heaven on here.

How about "Rafael to hold down a regular spot in the side" first?
 
cw1984 said:
Rafael's performances have been over hyped to high heaven on here.

How about "Rafael to hold down a regular spot in the side" first?
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I disagree. His first team spot is surely no longer in question.
 
Walrus said:
You may laugh and jibe, but I'm semi serious here.

The lad has often been MoM for me this season, he has been a breath of life into otherwise awful team performances. Not once have I seen a game with him that he hasn't given his all, kept trying to the final whistle and tried to drag up other teammates who at times have looked like they simply cannot be bothered.

He is the future. He has the passion, the energy, the presence on-field and certainly the talent to lead us. And it would also be a hell of a statement to the underperformers in the squad.
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Vidic is leading by example out there and barring injury I can't see him losing the armband for a good few years yet. Rafael certainly has all the passion needed to be captain one day but right now he's just far far too inexperienced right now. I personally don't mind his firey attitude as I think it's important having someone like him in the dressing room. Certainly makes up for the lack of balls shown by one or two others in there. In 5-7 years time I can see Rafael being captain, certainly.
 
cw1984 said:
Rafael's performances have been over hyped to high heaven on here.

How about "Rafael to hold down a regular spot in the side" first?
Click to expand...

I agree. He's had a mixture of good and bad performances this season. The signs look promising, but to suggest he should be made captain at this point is laughable.

We're talking about a player whos on the verge of crying when he's sent off ffs.
 
Walrus said:
I disagree. His first team spot is surely no longer in question.
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Eh? Of course it's in question. He'll get there 1 day but right now he's not made that spot his own.

Wayne_Rooney said:
I agree. He's had a mixture of good and bad performances this season. The signs look promising, but to suggest he should be made captain at this point is laughable.
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Exactly. The potential is there but he's still very much a work in progress.
 
cw1984 said:
Rafael's performances have been over hyped to high heaven on here.

How about "Rafael to hold down a regular spot in the side" first?
Click to expand...

No it hasn't given his age, his performances have been absolutely top notch, heck take away the age factor and he's still up there in the top 15 full backs in europe right now. Given just how much hype the likes of Henderson have got, then Rafael's hype is more than justified. The reason we rotate is because we have such a huge squad, the majority of the squad are rotated. Its not a sleight on his ability, not one bit.
 
Walrus said:
I disagree. His first team spot is surely no longer in question.
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You say this after one of his worst ever games for us.

He is great and will be even better. But far from the finished article. O'Shea as of now is the better defender.

He has been over hyped a hell of a lot on this site.
 
The thing is the underperformers haven't been in defence, so it would be a silly statement as the likes of Vidic and Rio would be much more suitable captains.
 
Devil_forever said:
No it hasn't given his age, his performances have been absolutely top knotch, heck take away the age factor and he's still up there in the top 15 full backs in europe right now.
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On here it was claimed he was among the best right backs in the league. Some even claiming the best.

Devil_forever said:
...the majority of the squad are rotated. Its not a sleight on his ability, not one bit.
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No, the reason he's rotated is because he's still hot headed and inconsistant.
 
Randall Flagg said:
You say this after one of his worst ever games for us.

He is great and will be even better. But far from the finished article. O'Shea as of now is the better defender.

He has been over hyped a hell of a lot on this site.
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His defending has improved hugely in the last year or so, yes he's prone to being rash but he'll curb that with time. This site has been guilty of overhyping some average players but Rafael's hype is more than warranted.

Please name 15 better right backs than him in Europe right now?
 
Wayne_Rooney said:
I agree. He's had a mixture of good and bad performances this season. The signs look promising, but to suggest he should be made captain at this point is laughable.

We're talking about a player whos on the verge of crying when he's sent off ffs.
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If that were your namesake it would just be "passion". Don't think there is anything wrong with being upset at being sent off.

cw1984 said:
Eh? Of course it's in question. He'll get there 1 day but right now he's not made that spot his own.

Exactly. The potential is there but he's still very much a work in progress.
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I think you are in the minority with that first statement. He is first choice RB at the moment by a fair margin.


To iterate again to other posters. You need someone with some balls and a bit hotheaded, and if it were Rooney or someone else he would be lauded for it, but because it's rafael it is perceived negatively. Roy keane and Eric cantona were "hot headed" too.

I do concede that within defence, vidic and rio have been great and I am certainly not criticising vidic as captain. I think with rios fitness hecant really be given the armband anymore though.
 
cw1984 said:
On here it was claimed he was among the best right backs in the league. Some even claiming the best.



No, the reason he's rotated is because he's still hot headed and inconsistant.
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He definitely is among the best right backs in the league right now, name me 10 who're better than him? This is before you take into consideration his age.

We rotate in order to keep the whole squad happy and he's just a victim of that. Its funny how when a young player who's not in a united shirt performs well, this place is full of people saying that we should spend an 8 figure sum on them but as soon as its one of our own, people start doubting them at every opportunity.
 
Walrus, let's go ahead and pretend Rafael has been the best player on the pitch for us. He bloody well hasn't been, but let's pretend.

He's still feckin' twenty.

No he should not be the captain of Manchester bloody United.
 
Excal said:
Walrus, let's go ahead and pretend Rafael has been the best player on the pitch for us. He bloody well hasn't been, but let's pretend.

He's still feckin' twenty.

No he should not be the captain of Manchester bloody United.
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I probably should have amended my original post to include the phase "within a few years" or similar.

Just to play devils advocate though, I genuinely can't think of that many of our current squad I would take over him as captain. Granted there is vidic, and evra would be another - but otherwise?
Giggs, scholes and rio I don't think will play enough games anymore to realistically be able to be club captain, due to either age or fitness or both.

Who else? This time last season Rooney would be popular choice but now? No chance. Nani? Carrick? Frankly when it comes to something like this, I am less concerned with age but more interested in personality and temperament.
 
Walrus said:
I think you are in the minority with that first statement. He is first choice RB at the moment by a fair margin.
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You say t hat like it's a statement of fact when it's obviously not the case. In the last 2 months it's been between him and O'Shea.

Devil_forever said:
He definitely is among the best right backs in the league right now, name me 10 who're better than him? This is before you take into consideration his age.
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I could list a number that I consider better or of similar level right now but it won't go anyway to proving my point as you're obviously one of the posters that are currently hugely over rating him.

Devil_forever said:
We rotate in order to keep the whole squad happy and he's just a victim of that.
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I agree that we rotate on a regular basis and it's necessary and you're right, Rafael is certainly a victim of that. So wouldn't you say the fact he's such a regular victim of that means he's not considered our automatic first choice right back?

Devil_forever said:
Its funny how when a young player who's not in a united shirt performs well, this place is full of people saying that we should spend an 8 figure sum on them but as soon as its one of our own, people start doubting them at every opportunity.
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You seem to be having multiple arguments here. I'm not "doubting" Rafael. Not in the slightest. I think he's ace and will one day be among the best in the World. All i'm saying is that right now he is not and his performances so far this season have been over hyped by the majority of posters on here.
 
He had a dip in form after his head injury which coincided with matches where SAF felt the need for experience in the right back position due to having Smalling on the right side of central defence. There's also the height aspect that needed to be considered against certain teams, and for those combined reasons Sheasy has had a good run recently. I don't think that can really be used as a stick to beat Rafael with, and I think under normal circumstances he's our first choice RB.

edit: forgot about the OP! He's far too young and inexperienced to be considered as captain material, the idea is ludicrous.
 
He has improved defensively, decision making, positioning etc but he still has that "streak" in him that cost us a place most likely in the CL final last season, he is still a work in progress but if he continues on the same path, what a player. Having said that, you have the difficulty of holding onto him given his roots and the added complication of his brother being there too, you get the feeling they are a "package" and they might fly the nest for "family reasons" if either have a hard time, love them, but I would love the assurance of a Denis Irwin\Gary Neville type over them any time.
 
Devil_forever said:
Please name me 10 who're better than him?
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This will prove nothing and will simply result in a reply from you stating Rafael is better than X number of them.

I consider these right backs to be currently better or of a similar level to Rafael:

Sagna, Ivanovic, Bosingwa, Zabaletta, O'Shea, Johnson, P.Neville.

EDIT: I would even argue you could put a case forward for the likes of Richards, Corluka and Hutton too but I imagine you're alreasy ranting about those 8 so i'll leave it there :)
 
cw1984 said:
This will prove nothing and will simply result in a reply from you stating Rafael is better than X number of them.

I consider these right backs to be currently better or of a similar level to Rafael:

Sagna, Ivanovic, Bosingwa, Zabaletta, O'Shea, Johnson, P.Neville.
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So he's the eighth best right back in the league then by your own admission, so how is he not amongst the best right backs in England already? So then how is he overhyped? I'd also argue that O'shea is at best on par with him and that Johnson and Zabaletta are inferior. Also once Bosingwa learns to defend, you can include him;)

To be the 8th best player in your position means you're a pretty good footballer, to be that at 20 means you're a damn brilliant one.
 
Devil_forever said:
So he's the eighth best right back in the league then by your own admission, so how is he not amongst the best right backs in England already? So then how is he overhyped? I'd also argue that O'shea is at best on par with him and that Johnson and Zabaletta are inferior. Also once Bosingwa learns to defend, you can include him;)

To be the 8th best player in your position means you're a pretty good footballer, to be that at 20 means you're a damn brilliant one.
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When iI hear the phrase "amongst the best" i'm thinking right up there mixing it with the very best. Right now Ivanovic, Zabaletta & Sagna are miles ahead of him in terms of all round consistancy.

I think it's important to remember i'm not trying to knock Rafael here. I think he's great and if I was in charge i'd have him in the team at every opportunity because I think he will be one of the best in the World. I just think lots of peoploe on here get/got very carried away with his performances this season. Some of them have been brilliant, some awful and some decent. About what you'd expect from a young defender still learning the ropes. But let's not try and make him something he isn't..... yet.
 
Its crazy talk for a couple more seasons depending on how he develops and what kind of experience he gains. One day, he definitely has the characteristics for it. Might need to work on his English too
 
Devil_forever said:
So he's the eighth best right back in the league then by your own admission, so how is he not amongst the best right backs in England already?
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Because we're talking top4 here. No one cares if Rafael is the 7th best RB just about shading Phil Neville.
 
His decision making and self control leaves a lot to be desired. He rushes in to a lot of tackles which can either lend himself to getting skinned or carded. Still a boy in terms of football and in terms of looking like he's fresh out of the U12 squad. He's no pillar of the first team which IMO is necessary and would only come with time/experience.
 
God, the Rafael ******** has reached new levels.
 
Eboue was a better fullback than Rafael but Wenger spent big on Sagna.
 
peterstorey said:
Eboue was a better fullback than Rafael but Wenger spent big on Sagna.
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Rafael's just a de facto right back. We're discussing his captaincy credentials.

I think he shares some common traits with many United captains of the Fergie era.

1) He's a fecking nutter.

2) He's a fecking nutter.

Maybe in a few years... not right now...
 
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