Just tell him to watch De Bruyne or Modric basically.
Ralf’s 4-2-2-2
- Thread starter Desert Eagle
- Start date
Regardless of any formation, its basically down to player’s willingness to press or being lazy. A smart way of pressing is closing down the opposition channels without running like crazy, even those small movements were missing agains wolves.
Its either the players don’t understand the instructions or not being bothered and seriously they are making misplaced passes every single match.
Hopefully in the summer a huge clear out happens with a new manager and that rebuild must be a long term one.
Its either the players don’t understand the instructions or not being bothered and seriously they are making misplaced passes every single match.
Hopefully in the summer a huge clear out happens with a new manager and that rebuild must be a long term one.
We really do seem to be overcomplicating things. As my brother pointed out to me at the game on Monday; Sancho showed glimpses of his talent at RW then immediately stopped getting played there!
I think we need to play either 4-2-3-1 but with Sancho RW and either Telles/Rashford or Greenwood as LW. However, because our full backs aren’t particularly good in attacking areas both wingers need to stretch play not come inside. This will make room for Bruno instead of having Greenwood and Rashford cutting inside and crowding the middle of the park.
Or we play 4-3-3 and Bruno needs to be told to keep the ball and only try crazy passes in the opposition final third. Then you can play Rashford and Greenwood as inverted wingers because they will be attacking an empty no10 space. The full backs need to bomb forward to create the width.
If you wanted to be radical I’d maybe even try Pogba as deepest of a midfield three. Yes, I know he’s not defensive minded and gets caught dithering on the ball. But he does have the passing range to move the ball upfield. If he had a Fred harrying in front of him then it could work in a similar fashion to Kante and Jorginho. I just think you’d need to get Pogba to buy into it by saying everything is going run through you. You set tempo, recycle the ball etc.
I think we need to play either 4-2-3-1 but with Sancho RW and either Telles/Rashford or Greenwood as LW. However, because our full backs aren’t particularly good in attacking areas both wingers need to stretch play not come inside. This will make room for Bruno instead of having Greenwood and Rashford cutting inside and crowding the middle of the park.
Or we play 4-3-3 and Bruno needs to be told to keep the ball and only try crazy passes in the opposition final third. Then you can play Rashford and Greenwood as inverted wingers because they will be attacking an empty no10 space. The full backs need to bomb forward to create the width.
If you wanted to be radical I’d maybe even try Pogba as deepest of a midfield three. Yes, I know he’s not defensive minded and gets caught dithering on the ball. But he does have the passing range to move the ball upfield. If he had a Fred harrying in front of him then it could work in a similar fashion to Kante and Jorginho. I just think you’d need to get Pogba to buy into it by saying everything is going run through you. You set tempo, recycle the ball etc.
Ridiculous formation the more it's considered. This type of setup works for a team with personnel such as a Bayern or Madrid. A Kroos / Casemiro or Modric. Two players who can dictate play but are not pushovers to get overrun in the midfield.
Shaw, AWB terrible consistency going forward. Luke offers more but has this shell he can go into with his performances. Sancho on the left and Greenwood on the right, neither player offers any width playing inverted with both going inside. Rashford the exact same conundrum which provides no output to the strikers. If Ronaldo / Cavani make runs who picks them out ? The formation is too narrow and the players aren't suitable.
Ragnick has fundamentally contributed to all these issues with a bad choice of shape.
Shaw, AWB terrible consistency going forward. Luke offers more but has this shell he can go into with his performances. Sancho on the left and Greenwood on the right, neither player offers any width playing inverted with both going inside. Rashford the exact same conundrum which provides no output to the strikers. If Ronaldo / Cavani make runs who picks them out ? The formation is too narrow and the players aren't suitable.
Ragnick has fundamentally contributed to all these issues with a bad choice of shape.
Getting through the season with a top four finish should have been Ralf’s sole priority, not reinventing our tactics. We don’t have the squad for a full pitch press for even 15 minutes. Ok, so Ralf dropped the full pitch press but he kept the shape, which invites us to be exploited by small clubs. As hideous as it would have been for us to watch, Ralf should have just has us go a 352 and use Sancho and Shaw for width and AWB in the back 3. He could still play his precious McTominay as a trailing runner into the box (or better yet, play Donny in the B2B role ) and rotate between Matic and Fred for the anchor until we bring in a proper CDM in January.
But no, he had to polish the turd.
It would have been hideous, but we wouldn’t been bitchslapped by relegation fodder.
But no, he had to polish the turd.
It would have been hideous, but we wouldn’t been bitchslapped by relegation fodder.
Still dont know why we bought Sancho in to play RW and we keep putting him on the left where he is average at best.
The formation has to change as we dont have the full backs to play his system.
Sell all those that want to leave, use the money to buy a cdm, and use youth to fill squad places vacated by those that have left.
Any money left over keep until summer to boost the new managers transfer kitty.
The formation has to change as we dont have the full backs to play his system.
Sell all those that want to leave, use the money to buy a cdm, and use youth to fill squad places vacated by those that have left.
Any money left over keep until summer to boost the new managers transfer kitty.
Arsenal played 4222 earlier this season and went on a great run. The system is not obsolete but there needs to be players in correct positions.
There is to many attacking options and not enough midfielders.
Ralf uses Sancho and Greenwood as 2 attacking midfielders but in reality they should be used as forwards.
I've watched some videos of Ralfs formations with RB Leipzig and he usually used Werner and Poulsen as two forwards. One who is pretty quick (Werner) and one who drops back and help with bild up.
His two attacking midfielders were Sabitzer and Forsberg. They are actual AMs who can create things and are good at quick passing.
To effectively play this formation we should sign defensive midfielder(this is really a must) and another attacking midfielder. And offload a bunch of forwards (Martial, Cavani, Lingard, etc).
In ideal world my 4-2-2-2 formation would be:
Ralf uses Sancho and Greenwood as 2 attacking midfielders but in reality they should be used as forwards.
I've watched some videos of Ralfs formations with RB Leipzig and he usually used Werner and Poulsen as two forwards. One who is pretty quick (Werner) and one who drops back and help with bild up.
His two attacking midfielders were Sabitzer and Forsberg. They are actual AMs who can create things and are good at quick passing.
To effectively play this formation we should sign defensive midfielder(this is really a must) and another attacking midfielder. And offload a bunch of forwards (Martial, Cavani, Lingard, etc).
In ideal world my 4-2-2-2 formation would be:
De Gea
Dalot - Varane - Lindelof - Shaw
Fred(maybe Pogba) - DM
Bruno - AM
Sancho - Greenwood(Rashford, Ronaldo)
Dalot - Varane - Lindelof - Shaw
Fred(maybe Pogba) - DM
Bruno - AM
Sancho - Greenwood(Rashford, Ronaldo)
whatever about the formation, this is just his formation and won't change, the tactics are far far more important
many fans said we abandoned the press, but ralf said in the interview we got into some pressing situations in the wolves game - does anyone remember any? I would be interested to know if he is still pursuing the press every game or if we have moved away temporarily.
also - ralf has said many times in the pass that he doesn't like square and backwards passes. we have seen an awful lot of these in the time he has been here, maybe even more in recent games. Im surprised he hasn't mentioned this in post match press conferences as it is easily the second most notable different between what was advertised vs what we are getting. he mentions 'control' a lot, and i think people mistake that for possession or similar, but I think that is more to do with positioning. he mentions over and over again physicality, which i assume is related to the lack of a press. but he doesn't mention that we don't play a high % of passes forward.
possible that one follows the other ie. if you can't win the ball back a lot then you don't get the right opportunities to move the ball forward quickly?
many fans said we abandoned the press, but ralf said in the interview we got into some pressing situations in the wolves game - does anyone remember any? I would be interested to know if he is still pursuing the press every game or if we have moved away temporarily.
also - ralf has said many times in the pass that he doesn't like square and backwards passes. we have seen an awful lot of these in the time he has been here, maybe even more in recent games. Im surprised he hasn't mentioned this in post match press conferences as it is easily the second most notable different between what was advertised vs what we are getting. he mentions 'control' a lot, and i think people mistake that for possession or similar, but I think that is more to do with positioning. he mentions over and over again physicality, which i assume is related to the lack of a press. but he doesn't mention that we don't play a high % of passes forward.
possible that one follows the other ie. if you can't win the ball back a lot then you don't get the right opportunities to move the ball forward quickly?
in ralfs previous teams, the winger is more of a number 10, he doesn't really play wingers. think emil forsberg. more natural for sancho to try that position coming in on his right foot. he has plenty of experience playing left side for dortmund so shouldn't be an issue for him
This formation in theory is maybe good, but you have to play on the strengths of your team, not against. We can discuss about the reasons why we brought manager that we don't have players for (once again), but 4-2-2-2 won't ever work with these players.
For 4-2-2-2 to work you need to have top full backs capable to run all day long up and down, and we don't have those. You need to have those two players behind forwards that are good in both direction, and he is playing wingers there. Playing Greenwood and Sancho in those two positions is ridiculous. I would understand if he tried Bruno and VdB for example, or Bruno and Lingard, those two combinations at least would have some chance to do something with the ball. When you have wingers there, they will try to use wings, and block with FB's, while opening huge space in the middle. Also, you can't control midfield as space between McT/Fred or Matic and those two is huge, and we have problems even when we are closer.
I am not saying 4-2-2-2 is not good option, but not with our players.
For 4-2-2-2 to work you need to have top full backs capable to run all day long up and down, and we don't have those. You need to have those two players behind forwards that are good in both direction, and he is playing wingers there. Playing Greenwood and Sancho in those two positions is ridiculous. I would understand if he tried Bruno and VdB for example, or Bruno and Lingard, those two combinations at least would have some chance to do something with the ball. When you have wingers there, they will try to use wings, and block with FB's, while opening huge space in the middle. Also, you can't control midfield as space between McT/Fred or Matic and those two is huge, and we have problems even when we are closer.
I am not saying 4-2-2-2 is not good option, but not with our players.
An old Matic who played 4 days earlier at that.
I know what he is trying to do but I feel it is not going to work with Shaw and AWB. Telles and Dalot are better options. He is trying to block the space and in the final third but Matic is dropping into a third CB and leaving the middle all alone. Then none of the 2 players as attacking midfield players are attacking midfield players. If he plays DVB and Bruno there is may be better. The whole team has to move as one but now it is as if Ole is back in charge and they all move individually.
He should forget about the results and play like we did against CP.
He should forget about the results and play like we did against CP.
IF the players applied themselves like they're expected to, there would be no issues.
Let's tinker with the formation, great. But when they don't apply themselves in a 4231/433/343/532 then what?
Players need a serious wake up call!
Let's tinker with the formation, great. But when they don't apply themselves in a 4231/433/343/532 then what?
Players need a serious wake up call!
Its baffling alright, and i'm certain this formation does not suit us at all. He wants us to press, but how is that possible with a 33 year old Matic, 36 year old Ronaldo a 34 year old Cavani, all starting 2 games in 4 days? No wonder we had no control of the ball against wolves.
Playing 2 CM's in the PL will not work! Most teams have 3 midfielders for a reason. The only team who can do it is Chelsea, and that's because they have ngolo kante. We don't have anywhere near that quality of player, we have to play with a 3 man midfield, even if it means dropping Bruno slightly deeper. If KDB can do it, why can't bruno?
Playing 2 CM's in the PL will not work! Most teams have 3 midfielders for a reason. The only team who can do it is Chelsea, and that's because they have ngolo kante. We don't have anywhere near that quality of player, we have to play with a 3 man midfield, even if it means dropping Bruno slightly deeper. If KDB can do it, why can't bruno?
Because none of them are disciplined enough.