Yep. It stems from the higher ups. Just feel everyone is working with their hands tied behind the back.
Ralf Rangnick | Austria manager
- Thread starter Livewire1974
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Maybe that goes beyond the starting XI. I'm fully convinced that whatever we do, we ain't gonna do any better because of the people in charge of running this club.
Cheap owners, clueless CEO and co.
I think the mere fact that you wouldn't trust any of the players mentioned to succeed at United is an indictment in itself. How many players signed post SAF can we say have been bonafide successes at United? We have signed them young, old, cheap, expensive, English, exotic etc... There's absolutely no variable that we can point to and say this is why player x will more likely than not do well for United. United could sign Mane, Salah & Firmino (we realistically could have) and we wouldn't have gotten the same output Liverpool got out of them.
Can we therefore say including Ragnick himself?
Any dimwit can go and say we need to replace 10 players and invest £1B. The one player he wanted to keep declined hard and is now replaced with Onana. Mr Snakeoil salesman was one in the long line to get his free handout and move on.
I think it's simple really Klopp and Guardiola who have relatively decent success for their signings are better managers than any United manager prior to SAF. Their ability to integrate the talent acquired into a functioning team is a reflection of their credibility and their staff.
Another issue with United and one that isn't resolved is that the DOF has no vision. If for instance United maintained under Woodward that they wanted to be a possession orientated team, the transition from LVG to Mourinho wouldn't have happened and the likes of Daley Blind probably would have played longer due to being the type of profile a manager would require when playing out the back for example.
The transitions from LVG to Jose to Ole each time is amassing the club's NET spend while one team assembled under one manager is totally dispensable under another. So what happens is United spend money on reshaping the spine of the team which is something that should happen over an 8 year span, almost every three years. I remember hearing recently from Rio that when a young or unproven player comes into an established team the integration process is far more smooth compared to coming into a team that's not established and having to go out on merit and prove themselves. So my question is name one transfer United have made when the player is going into an established team ? It's never happened in ten years.
This is the fruit of when the manager leads the vision for the club and it doesn't come from a cohesive leadership in the hierarchy. United are unequivocally the worst run club of a prestigious team in world football. Until the business is corrected their will be implications on field such as we have witnessed beforehand.
I still firmly believe Ragnick as DoF was the way to go, regardless of his managerial record. What we needed was a complete rebuild from the bottom up with a new manager at the helm and his track record in building football clubs is there for all to see. Instead, we got a new paint job in ETH to distract from the creaking foundations which were there for all to see.
No guarantee Ragnick would have been a success, but he'd sure be a lot more competent than the Murtough/Fletcher combo we have right now running things.
No guarantee Ragnick would have been a success, but he'd sure be a lot more competent than the Murtough/Fletcher combo we have right now running things.
100% agree and that is the point I was inherently making. Apparently, anyone can suggest players yet we see weaker players performing wonders for other teams while our so-called best players have a good game every other month. We would have had a better transfer success rate if our transfer policy was coherent and in line with the overall strategy of the club as outlined by the director of football. ETH simply cannot fail because this is the bed the club has chosen to lay in. Else, where does the club go from here?
Are you satisfied with the current snake-oil salesmen running the club?
They are loyalists to our owners, we have no choice in them. Owners are the problem.
You can't be a consultant with integrity and suggest a raze on +90% of the multi million assets, use media to relay points and create controversies, be abrasive and throw everything under a bus. He did shit here, he alienated everyone almost right off the bat, and he won a shockingly low 37% of games only. Guy grifted us for a neat Payday.
Its not that difficult, you can have an open heart surgery but if the surgeon replaces the faulty valve with another faulty valve will the surgery succeed? ETH, like his predecessors, went about the rebuild the wrong way and could leave us lumped with another expensive but not fit for purpose squad.
For me the midfield and attack were the major issues but even though Casemiro is a superstar he is on the wrong end of his career to be truly transformative to this side, he lacks other aspects of what we desperately need ie build ability and recovery pace. Antony is a dud and Hoijlund is still young, carrying a difficult injury. Mount is the wrong profile especially when partnered with Bruno, who is a turnover magnate and Casemiro who is not the most assured of passers.
Signings not working out is not the problem but the cost at which this was done and the wages which these players earn make it near impossible to move on from this era if shit hits the fan. Rangnick's faults were on the pitch not the front office, we recruited him to do what he was worst at and proceeded to judge him harshly on a completely different role. Now look at Newcastle, we might beat them on the odd one off game, but they look miles ahead of us and they were building from relegation fodder not a 6th placed team with a 2nd and 3rd place finishes behind it.
Perhaps he knew he was being messed around, that the club lied to him about the job he was signed up to do! Then he thought I'll expose what a sorry state all this is, he had nothing to lose as there was never an attempt to keep him on in the advisory role, but yeah, let's blame ragnick for his record.
The guy was literally working with both arms tied behind his back, inheriting a squad where they were not willing to work for anyone, he couldn't bring anyone in, yet expected to turn it around in an instant, he was completely undermined.
We employed a former coach, who hadn't coached in ages and never in the PL to stabilise the club and then blame him when he failed. It's like hiring a hospital administrator and then blame them when they failed to administer first aid at a multiple car crush with tens of victims.
The players you call multimillion pound assets were shockingly unprofessional that season and deserved much worse than alienation. This season looks like they have reverted to type, jogging back in position, not fighting with intensity etc. So the problem was always there and they needed to be called out because they are unreliable pieces of shit.
We needed to harness his expertise in our rebuild, we didn't need to make him manager but DOF and I am certain he would have done a much better job than blowing the best part of £400m on a RW with no skills, a crocked 20 year old, a former Madrid great on his last legs and a Chelsea reject. Ajax didn't trust ETH with signings and they operate at maybe a fifth of our budget now whose bright idea was it to handover recruitment to ETH? The same guys who have wet the bed since Fergie left.
Yeah erm, whilst I had sympathy for Ragnick and the clusterfeck he was dropped into, not least the disrespect from the likes of Ronaldo; hiring him full time wasn’t the answer.
The problem currently is that Man City back their manager year on year, and Chelsea are doing the same. Liverpool’s struggles began when they started doing similar to us. Yet we’re starting from a much worse position than the likes of City.
Currently we back ours once every two seasons at best. If we had backed ETH to the hilt again, we’d have a great season ahead of us, but currently we appear to have guaranteed upgraded just one position in our first eleven. If we’re lucky we might end up with two upgrades, depending on how Mount and Højlund settle in over the coming months.
The problem currently is that Man City back their manager year on year, and Chelsea are doing the same. Liverpool’s struggles began when they started doing similar to us. Yet we’re starting from a much worse position than the likes of City.
Currently we back ours once every two seasons at best. If we had backed ETH to the hilt again, we’d have a great season ahead of us, but currently we appear to have guaranteed upgraded just one position in our first eleven. If we’re lucky we might end up with two upgrades, depending on how Mount and Højlund settle in over the coming months.
Yeah we signed Diouf, Pellistri and other due to former players recommendations. We signed Maguire under Ole but we didn't want to pay the release clause for Haaland. This more likely means that Ole didn't even know how amazing Haaland was and probably didn't recommend him highly.
To be fair, Rangnick very clearly said that De Gea was fine for the way he has us playing that season, but if the new manager wanted us to play a different style then he would likely need a new keeper.
Similarly, people often bring up his comments on McTominay, ignoring the context that Rangnick made those positive comments after he'd only been here for a month or two and Scott was showing arguably the best form of his career. Scott proceeded to be absolutely terrible for the rest of the season, and I'm guessing Rangnick would have felt very differently as time wore on.
Still waiting for actual quote and no, posting gift wont make you look clever.
You realised haland's release clause was only valid last summer and ETH was our manager at that time? do tell me why you want Ole to pay his release clause? Heres the thing that irks me the most, Ole was crap manager but hes still our legend the fact so called united supporters made up story to badmouth him is unacceptable for us older fans
I'd agree but that's not an honest argument I am sorry to say. Clubs like United, Liverpool and Arsenal have limits on what they can afford notwithstanding the fact that we have been making losses since COVID. A major aspect of our failure rests on the sporting department and the subsequent failure of the executive to headhunt proper help to arrest the slide and this is where Rangnick comes in.
You can't honestly tell me that a manager that splashes 140m on ineffectual players like Mount and Antony is justified in crying for more backing. That's an argument I won't support, the failure was in talent ID and this manager insisted on having the final say on who comes in and who goes out. That's not on the Glazers it's on him and his insistence on these players weakened our negotiating power.
Maguire was a club target since at least the previous season, Haaland wanted release clauses signing for us as well which the club doesn't do. Ole wanted Haaland at United even before he was our manager.
I was referring to his transfer to Dortmund not from Dortmund. Maybe it didn't have a release clause though. But I m sure Ole was the manager then.
Ok delete Maguire and replace him with AWB. We sanctioned hundreds of millions for Ole, we even bought Diouf after his recommendation but we wouldn't bother spend 15 millions to bring Haaland. As I said most likely Ole couldn't even grasp how big talent Haaland was.
Absolutely bizarre to write off Mount after 2 games by the way…
How on Earth do we know Ragnick wouldn’t have signed either of these players? Or flops of his own?
We’ve had Moyes flops, Mourinho flops, LVG flops, the transfer board flops (AWB, Maguire, Sancho, Fred). Why would Ragnick be better?
The difference currently is that Pep has had lots of flops, but he then gets chance to correct them the following Summer, our managers don’t and nor would any sporting director. It’s the same with the scousers, the second they stopped hitting home runs with every single signing they’ve stalled.
The players signed by Ten Hag helped us last season to silverware & a good finish, our second best points total post Fergie, and that after a horrendous finish the previous season, which to me means that last year ETH did his job of scouting the right signings to move us forward.
If all that gets him is a GK, a CM and a young striker, well, it’s hardly surprising why we keep lingering behind the clubs that go all in. No DoF is stopping that unless he start hitting home runs with 90% of his signings. We did that same thing with Mourinho after getting us our best total since SAF.
What we need to appreciate is that we’re a long way behind and year on year improvement will require big investment for a few years and not once every second season.
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https://theathletic.com/4515644/2023/05/13/solskjaer-haaland-united-4m-glazers/
We got direct quote from Ole. Here the the most recent one.
Ole is mediocre manager but he knows good striker when he sees one. Greenwood is another example
I don't deny he recommended him. But he probably recommended 20 more players. I m also sure he definitely didn't recommend his a world class talent. Ole was here as a manager when Haaland was transferred twice (first time he was an interim indeed). Ole has proved as a manager that he is not really good at spotting any talent, so why would he understand that Haaland was a better player than Diouf?
Think you're confused. Ole tried to sign Haaland again when he was United manager. Haaland's entourage demanded a release clause in his contract, something that United would never allow. Dortmund then accepted it. How was it Ole's fault?
Saying Ole doesn't recognize talent is blatantly false when in fact he tried to sign the Nordic ogre for United at least twice.
Flops are recoverable if they are in the 30m to 50m range not in the 60m to 100m range. Even Pep is having to carry Grealish until he come/came good in his squad. Pep is not comparable to anyone because no one has his type of backing maybe Howe will have but not now so it's a moot point because you can't ask the Glazers or anyone else to go toe to toe with a state funded club that's also willing to cheat.
Right now we are not even in a conversation to look across the road, we talking of putting out a functional side, being realistic with tactics and making proper research and judgement on signings. Insisting on paying 80m+ on a winger who can't score or assist is criminal. Paying 60m on Mount, given what we all saw from him over the last two years and then asking him to play a role he has physicality and nous to play is just horrendous use of resources. Unforgivable.
A proper DOF stops this madness and spreads the risk. 140m maybe buys you three players and if two flop you have covered one and the other two haven't hurt your budget. You can't tell me we couldnt have gone for MacAllister/Maddison, spent 2/3 of the Mount fee and still be able to sign Amrabat too. Instead we go in for a player with major flaws for the role, are rinsed in the process, left with nothing in the bank and we want to blame the ownership!
I'd say Maguire was the exact opposite of a club target. Mourinho wanted him the season before and the club said no. Ole then came in and wanted the same player, so the club then went and signed him (for 10m more than they could have done the season before).
How can both of your points be true? If the owners are the problem then you can't really evaluate the actions of those under them. In the same way, we can't blame players if a manager is shit, we can't blame a manager if his manager is also shit. The thing is Ragnick called out the structures above and playing personnel below. Whether or not you agree that that was the right thing to do as a manager, you can't deny the facts about what he said. Everything he said was evident, Even the suggestion of the razing of multi-million assets we've gone and done anyway so he wasn't wrong there either.
Of course, any dimwit can see what's going on wrong with our club, but only a few people have the qualifications to fix it. The options the club had then were a) Stick with Ragnick, who was undoubtedly qualified for the role, b) hire a qualified DoF with similar or better experience than Ragnick, or c) keep the status quo. We chose to go with C. A bigger grift in my opinion.
Sure, Ragnick may have gone on to sign flops as well, but I believe signing player X under the reformed structures of the club, which he would have been involved in shaping, would have given the player a better chance to succeed than signing the same player X into our past and current structures. We have that many flops because we don't have the required platform for signings to succeed.
This is not even a Ragnick issue. Every single manager has complained about the club's way of doing things after they had left. He was the first person working within the club to call out the club's structures and players. Crucially, he also had the experience of fixing the damn thing he was complaining about. This isn't the same as a regular fan pointing out these same obvious issues. This is what irks me most when people argue that anyone could see what he saw, anyone could recommend players, etc. Unless this "anyone" excludes the current people in charge of running the club because seems they are the only ones not seeing it.
He was one of us; a true hero.
The only reason Rangnick was accepted here was because of the work he had done with the RB group, akin to what we still need now and needed then. To build a club from the ground up. The thing that irks me the most is that we could have bought all the players he recommended with what we splashed on Antony.
It was a matter of pride from Murtough, fear of a huge outlay from the Glazers and flapping about from Arnold whilst ETH saw an indecisive duo and grabbed power. I have seen this happen in many organisations or groups where an outspoken team member is sidelined because he is saying what people don't want to hear but he, if you look beyond the annoying noise, has a unique skillset needed by the exact group shunning him.
He might have been a genius inside his head or 20 years ago. But if you can't get your visions to register with people with executive power who gatekeep the change needed then those ideas dies with him.
The man embarrassed his bosses and players early on and rightly so got tossed out. He should have secured 4th with that genius of his and worked silently to report and exact proper change in a fashion realistically possible in the boardroom like the pro he claimed to be.
He was shockingly ineffective on every parameter...
You are judging his effectiveness as a PL manager, a job he should have never got and the Executives whose infallibility you are touting now should have been made to pay for that decision, and justifying his failure in that role as a reason to deny him the chance to do what he is really good at? Were all those he pissed off, executives and players, innocent of what he accused them off? If not so you are supporting the immaturity and egoism of people who put us in this very place, justifying the jettisoning of someone who could have helped just because he bruised a few ego of people who probably deserved much worse.
I already answered you on that, not sure if you also don’t read posts or it’s the only thing you have to go on?
Think confusion re timeline:
1st transfer from Molde - United don’t seem to be in for Haaland regardless of our discussion re why.
2nd transfer from Salzburg. United are in discussions with Haaland but refuse to insert a release clause (it wasn’t about him having a release clause that we didn’t activate).
3rd transfer from Dortmund. I assume United spoke to him given we’d had serious interest when he left Salzburg but the clubs reputation had really taken a hit by then. I doubt anyone bar City was going to pay the agent fee. Release clause looks low but when you add in the fees and wages it is a major transfer.
There are two release clause situations. 1st was we didn’t want him to have one in his contract when leaving Salzburg and 2nd was the release clause City paid when he left Dortmund.
Have a feeling this thread would get lively...
proposing a myth again. what makes you think youre correct this time after you got it wrong with halaand release clause?
1st transfer from molde where ole recommended him but united refused to sanction the move for mere 4m
2nd transfer from salzburg, again ole went to meet haland, his dad, and raiola to discuss the transfer but the club refused to sanction the move this time because raiola insisted on release clause,
3rd transfer from dortmund, nothing to do with ole because he was no longer our manager in summer 2022.
so yeah i was right when i said ole recommended halaand TWICE, and the club refuse to make move by the time he arrived at Dortmund it was all too late.
Dunno why people bumping this thread, guy sold out his ideas and went full shit as manager, got what he deserved at the end but didnt spend money, no pre season etc. good riddance overall. If only those really desperate ones arent poking trying to paint him as worst thing ever happened post SAF, which is just laughable, that title belongs to Ole by a long margin, spent fortune, wasted time, coached feck all, left bunch of unfit unlikeable cnuts on top being a loser manager that won feck all.
He had a release clause while at Salszubrg. So how I was wrong?
the club refused because raiola insisted putting release clause on halaand. so yeah you were wrong.
Why I was wrong? Because he couldnt convice Haaland and his family that he known for years and he was a mentor to come without a release clause, or he couldnt convice United that he was worth it even with a release clause? Or that he couldnt convince United even before Salsburg came that this kid was a generational talent, a team that he had convinced to spend the same amount (not event taking into account inflation) on Diouf? Ok you convinced me. Ole knew that Haaland was amazing but he has awful persuasion skills.
However, he managed to convice United that AWB was worth 55 millions
You get by posting the correct timeline you have proven yourself incorrect? You said Ole proposed Haaland twice (see the timelines we agree on) but the club never acted which you yourself disprove re Salzburg and release clause. Not sure why this has taken so long.
I think this charlatan’s thread being bumped is the worst thing about us losing.
RR Back in as a consultant??
Why is this thread getting any movement? Did Ralf say something recently to expose the Glazers more?