Ralf Rangnick vs Paul Mitchell

[Shipperley]

Do we know anything about Dougie Freedman?

Would be a massive blow to lose him and I’m not surprised there’s interest, I’d say he’s the most important person at our club. The number of teams that have come and gone (and come back again in some cases) with much bigger budgets than us is quite amazing really.

He built our promotion side whilst Manager, signing some absolute gems like Joel Ward, Damien Delaney, Mile Jedinak, Yannick Bolasie and Glen Murray for literal peanuts. Since coming back as DoF he’s managed us through periods of having literally no money with smart signings like Vicente Guaita, Gary Cahill and Jordan Ayew who have all been vital, and in more recent times when he has been given some cash he’s got in the likes of Andersen, Guehi, Doucoure, Olise and Eze who would all sell for 3x what we paid for them.

Wouldn’t be a flashy appointment but I am sure you could do a lot, lot worse. Dougie with an actual budget is a scary prospect.

 

[Loon]

Do we know anything about Dougie Freedman?

Blimey, I remember the name when he was a player! Is he doing good work BTS now?

 

[Rojofiam]

Would be a massive blow to lose him and I’m not surprised there’s interest, I’d say he’s the most important person at our club. The number of teams that have come and gone (and come back again in some cases) with much bigger budgets than us is quite amazing really.

He built our promotion side whilst Manager, signing some absolute gems like Joel Ward, Damien Delaney, Mile Jedinak, Yannick Bolasie and Glen Murray for literal peanuts. Since coming back as DoF he’s managed us through periods of having literally no money with smart signings like Vicente Guaita, Gary Cahill and Jordan Ayew who have all been vital, and in more recent times when he has been given some cash he’s got in the likes of Andersen, Guehi, Doucoure, Olise and Eze who would all sell for 3x what we paid for them.

Wouldn’t be a flashy appointment but I am sure you could do a lot, lot worse. Dougie with an actual budget is a scary prospect.

Thank you!

 

[Lash]

Would be a massive blow to lose him and I’m not surprised there’s interest, I’d say he’s the most important person at our club. The number of teams that have come and gone (and come back again in some cases) with much bigger budgets than us is quite amazing really.

He built our promotion side whilst Manager, signing some absolute gems like Joel Ward, Damien Delaney, Mile Jedinak, Yannick Bolasie and Glen Murray for literal peanuts. Since coming back as DoF he’s managed us through periods of having literally no money with smart signings like Vicente Guaita, Gary Cahill and Jordan Ayew who have all been vital, and in more recent times when he has been given some cash he’s got in the likes of Andersen, Guehi, Doucoure, Olise and Eze who would all sell for 3x what we paid for them.

Wouldn’t be a flashy appointment but I am sure you could do a lot, lot worse. Dougie with an actual budget is a scary prospect.

He's certainly warranted the opportunity to operate with a bigger budget. It's odd how none of his strikers seemed to have truly worked out though. They have at least been consistent in style, so seems to know what he's looking for.

 

[Shipperley]

He's certainly warranted the opportunity to operate with a bigger budget. It's odd how none of his strikers seemed to have truly worked out though. They have at least been consistent in style, so seems to know what he's looking for.

We’ve had some near misses on some class attacking players to be fair, the three that come to mind are Ollie Watkins when he was at Exeter (the money men didn’t have £10m for him at the time), we almost signed Jarrod Bowen before West Ham came in for him and we also went in hard for Eddie Nketiah before he renewed with Arsenal, that deal was very close from what I’ve been told.

Of the strikers he has signed, we made a profit on Sorloth who’s gone on to have a reasonable career and Edouard’s on course for 10- 15 goals, though his all-round game isn’t good enough in my opinion. The rest have been punts (eg Mateta for 8m) or loans when we had little money (Tosun, Batshuayi etc). He hasn’t yet had an opportunity to throw £20m-30m at a striker, I’d back him if he did.

 

[didz]

He's certainly warranted the opportunity to operate with a bigger budget. It's odd how none of his strikers seemed to have truly worked out though. They have at least been consistent in style, so seems to know what he's looking for.

The Benteke curse probably. Signed to a big contract for big money a year before Freedman got the job, I'd imagine that limited what he could do in that position.

Sorloth looked like a really good signing at the time. Surprised that one didn't work out. Maybe just got him too early.

 

[Lash]

We’ve had some near misses on some class attacking players to be fair, the three that come to mind are Ollie Watkins when he was at Exeter (the money men didn’t have £10m for him at the time), we almost signed Jarrod Bowen before West Ham came in for him and we also went in hard for Eddie Nketiah before he renewed with Arsenal, that deal was very close from what I’ve been told.

Of the strikers he has signed, we made a profit on Sorloth who’s gone on to have a reasonable career and Edouard’s on course for 10- 15 goals, though his all-round game isn’t good enough in my opinion. The rest have been punts (eg Mateta for 8m) or loans when we had little money (Tosun, Batshuayi etc). He hasn’t yet had an opportunity to throw £20m-30m at a striker, I’d back him if he did.

I wasn't aware of those near misses, so definitely has a good eye for players and can keep to a budget.

It wasn't suggesting they were bad, I like a lot of them, more that it was a surprise they haven't worked out. Sorloth particularly, I thought would make it.

The Benteke curse probably. Signed to a big contract for big money a year before Freedman got the job, I'd imagine that limited what he could do in that position.

Sorloth looked like a really good signing at the time. Surprised that one didn't work out. Maybe just got him too early.

Exactly, looking at his work in the round, it does look very impressive.

 

[Sara125]

I swear to God I read that as Phil Mitchell

 

[Bwuk]

What about Davie Weir at Brighton?

He's the Technical Director. According to Brightons website; Weir will oversee all football operations; including recruitment, analysis, medical and player welfare, across both the men's and women's set-up.

That sounds like something we desperately need?

 

[Withnail]

I don't know a huge amount about Mitchell but Rangnick hasn't been a DOF in quite some time, never at a big club and has burned his bridges at United from what I can see.

I'm not sure United would have him back on Optics alone. He's also a bit of a waffler who loves the sound of his own voice.

 

[Mainoldo]

What about Davie Weir at Brighton?

He's the Technical Director. According to Brightons website; Weir will oversee all football operations; including recruitment, analysis, medical and player welfare, across both the men's and women's set-up.

That sounds like something we desperately need?

How long has he been in the job as over the last 24 months they‘ve lost their main guy to Newcastle and the rest to Chelsea. So be careful on who is actually doing a good job.

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't know a huge amount about Mitchell but Rangnick hasn't been a DOF in quite some time, never at a big club and has burned his bridges at United from what I can see.

I'm not sure United would have him back on Optics alone. He's also a bit of a waffler who loves the sound of his own voice.

Rangnick is crap.

 

[Baxquux]

Rangnick is crap.

As a club manager, it would seem (though that group of players could make anyone look bad if they felt indifferent to trying, and RR was asking them to play an intense style, much like many teams around us) : as discussed previously, that shortlist he gave to the club (and which was leaked) would by and large have set us up much better than the purchases that were made based upon ETH's judgement.

 

[Mainoldo]

As a club manager, it would seem (though that group of players could make anyone look bad if they felt indifferent to trying, and RR was asking them to play an intense style, much like many teams around us) : as discussed previously, that shortlist he gave to the club (and which was leaked) would by and large have set us up much better than the purchases that were made based upon ETH's judgement.

Not being funny but I remember that Schalke semi final.. easiest UCL semi final we’ve ever had.

The shortlist he gave to the club was a myth. A bunch of players that had already been lined up to other clubs or not good enough. I mean Haidara and Laimer… deadwood pending.

 

[CM]

That's why I think it shouldn't be a role undertaken by one person as their concepts may mean very different things to others and they're effectively committing transactions of hundreds of millions.

Agreed. We need a dedicated team to do their due diligence and work towards the same goal otherwise the whole exercise is pointless.

As much as I despise what City represent and the artificial way they've gone about it, one of the reasons they've flourished is because they built their structure specifically for Guardiola. We haven't shown a hint of that joined up thinking, even if we can't compete with the level of resource they've committed to their project.

 

[sunama]

Rangnick is more accomplished than Mitchell but also 23 years his senior.

Paul Mitchell is the best candidate for Manchester United. He was at Southampton when they were the production factory for the league, he was at Spurs during their best years. And then he went to Leipzig and they had their best ever finish (3rd). And most recently he was at Monaco.

At only 42 he has so much left to offer and would be able to grow into the role.

That's a damn good summary and I'm already sold on Paul Mitchell.
The question is: would he join a club like MUFC which is in decline and is showing no sign of improvement?

 

[Loon]

That's a damn good summary and I'm already sold on Paul Mitchell.
The question is: would he join a club like MUFC which is in decline and is showing no sign of improvement?

Jesus, wept.

 

[sunama]

Random caf member would probably have managed better results than Ralf. Absolutely atrocious reign as caretaker manger.

To be fair, RR was not a manager. He is the guy who sits in the board room and strategies the moves we make as a club.
The head coach (that would be ETH), would the man who coaches and manages our players/team.

 

[lex talionis]

Jesus, wept.

I laughed out loud when I read that too. But there is more than a grain of truth in the sentiment. However, it's precisely the challenge of taking on a club which the Glazers flushed down the toilet with bonehead decisions like hiring Moyes, Van Gaal, Jose and then Ole that appeals to men with high aspirations or restoring a tarnished club back to its rightful place among the premier clubs of world football.

 

[SRB87]

I mean, some of you in here criticizing his coaching stint here have the right to call him out on it. Pretty much everyone who comes to United will flop for the exact reasons Rangnick listed. His speciality is building clubs, not coaching and some of you here fail to remember that.
Without a doubt in my mind, Ralf would have used that 400 million the exact opposite way thats its been used and its very likely united would be a much better team playing much nicer football. Theres not a single thing he said that wasnt accurate. I think it was a huge mistake to let him go and its for sure that Manchester united would have not been worse off with him here.

EDIT: just take a look who he suggested to buy and who United ended up buying instead. He picked out Enzo, Gvardiol, Alvarez, Diaz etc before they became as hyped as they were. I remember reading a report that said Ralf got super pissed when he found out he didnt get Alvarez.

 

[Jordi Cruyff 99]

I mean, some of you in here criticizing his coaching stint here have the right to call him out on it. Pretty much everyone who comes to United will flop for the exact reasons Rangnick listed. His speciality is building clubs, not coaching and some of you here fail to remember that.
Without a doubt in my mind, Ralf would have used that 400 million the exact opposite way thats its been used and its very likely united would be a much better team playing much nicer football. Theres not a single thing he said that wasnt accurate. I think it was a huge mistake to let him go and its for sure that Manchester united would have not been worse off with him here.

EDIT: just take a look who he suggested to buy and who United ended up buying instead. He picked out Enzo, Gvardiol, Alvarez, Diaz etc before they became as hyped as they were. I remember reading a report that said Ralf got super pissed when he found out he didnt get Alvarez.

You're absolutely right. Everything he said was accurate. Erik ten Hag doesn't seem to have the cognitive faculties that Rangnick has. When Rangnick spoke, I listened. With Erik ten Hag it's the same old dross. Of course, that might be a front, but he doesn't fill me with confidence in anything he has done. The entire club is a shambles.

 

[Ayoba]

I mean, some of you in here criticizing his coaching stint here have the right to call him out on it. Pretty much everyone who comes to United will flop for the exact reasons Rangnick listed. His speciality is building clubs, not coaching and some of you here fail to remember that.
Without a doubt in my mind, Ralf would have used that 400 million the exact opposite way thats its been used and its very likely united would be a much better team playing much nicer football. Theres not a single thing he said that wasnt accurate. I think it was a huge mistake to let him go and its for sure that Manchester united would have not been worse off with him here.

EDIT: just take a look who he suggested to buy and who United ended up buying instead. He picked out Enzo, Gvardiol, Alvarez, Diaz etc before they became as hyped as they were. I remember reading a report that said Ralf got super pissed when he found out he didnt get Alvarez.

100%.

Has it been confirmed anywhere that it was ETH that refused to work with RR?

 

[tenhagsimp]

100%.

Has it been confirmed anywhere that it was ETH that refused to work with RR?

Yes. He declined to even meet with RR. What a knob.

 

[RedBanker]

Jesus, wept.

Yes. Klopp too

 

[Dazzmondo]

What about Davie Weir at Brighton?

He's the Technical Director. According to Brightons website; Weir will oversee all football operations; including recruitment, analysis, medical and player welfare, across both the men's and women's set-up.

That sounds like something we desperately need?

From what I know about Brighton's recruitment it's actually their data search engine model that leads them to be so successful instead of individuals within the recruitment team. As far as I know only Brighton and Brentford know the formula/design for this search engine. It's really a sophisticated ai that gives them their insights.

 

[Tony Clifton]

Mitchell has been on my radar for a while and seems the perfect fit. The Caf has also had previous threads on Mitchell by the way, one of them as early as 2018 and the other one from just last year.

2018:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-mitchell-potential-dof.443740/

2022:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-mitchell-sporting-director.469495/

Also noticed that Mitchell's personal Wikipedia page already has been edited…poorly though since it's not correctly linked to United's wiki. Expecting it will be removed any second now.

Paul Alexander Mitchell (born 26 August 1981) is an English football scout and former professional player who is the sporting director of [Manchester United]|Man Utd]].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mitchell_(footballer,_born_1981)

 

[FootyGirl88]

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[horsechoker]

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Oh dear, I hope Menu can recover

 

[wolvored]

Always preferred Billy. Only one that seemed to have a keen interest in football.

Warren, the West Ham fan on TV was a good laugh as well.

 

[arthurka]

Jesse March ok then..

 

[The Mitcher]

You know what bthe Caf needs? More vs threads!

 

[frostbite]

What about Ralf Rangnick vs Paul Mitchell ... for interim manager?

 

[Gordon Godot]

Yes. He declined to even meet with RR. What a knob.

This was a massive, massive red flag for me early on. I cant imagine a Klopp or Pep doing this. The best want to learn from everyone, they are like sponges. Ralf guy had a unique insight into both the internal mess at United and a good knowledge of talent in Europe. Of course Erik only wants to fish in his tiny Dutch league pond.

 

[Adisa]

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Even a sporting director can't resolve suc issues. This starts from the top.

 

[The Firestarter]

Cringe's back on the MenU lads.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Which restaurant is he talking about?

 

[horsechoker]

Which restaurant is he talking about?

Red Café

 

[devilish]

We need a rocky 5 remake here.

Seriously, Mitchell made a name for himself as Head of Recruitment while rangnick did the same as sporting director. Its more appropriate to compare rangnick to ashworth. Even then I can't see rangnick returning. He talks too much and our major shareholders are thin skinned

 

[Big Ben Foster]

This was a massive, massive red flag for me early on. I cant imagine a Klopp or Pep doing this. The best want to learn from everyone, they are like sponges. Ralf guy had a unique insight into both the internal mess at United and a good knowledge of talent in Europe. Of course Erik only wants to fish in his tiny Dutch league pond.

This. One thing I was looking forward to was a bit of continuity and sharing of notes from the old regime to the new, so that the usual suspects wouldn't be given yet another clean slate and the new manager wouldn't have to waste the first few months of his tenure assessing the state of the squad.

 

[Lee565]

This was a massive, massive red flag for me early on. I cant imagine a Klopp or Pep doing this. The best want to learn from everyone, they are like sponges. Ralf guy had a unique insight into both the internal mess at United and a good knowledge of talent in Europe. Of course Erik only wants to fish in his tiny Dutch league pond.

He basically committed a familiar mistake that moyes made of wanting the backroom staff gone, I can not believe we made the same mistake again of giving manager full control after all the previous disasters and hugely naive to think ten hag could build a great side when it was others behind the scenes at ajax that handled a majority of the recruitment.