Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[DSG]

What sides has murtogh built and how many trophies has been won ?

Classic Whataboutism! Not relevant! I ask again, what major trophies did Ralf win as either a club builder or a manager in 30 years In the game????

we are Manchester fecking United. We should be getting the absolute cream of the crop for managers, CEOs and DoFs. Murtagh’s failures don’t change Rangnick’s track record. Ultimately, I blame the Glazers.

 

[DSG]

Indeed, his only failure was that he unable to put the fire out.

The people who started the fire are still here calling the shots while the interim gets all the blame and the fans lap it up.

There can be two things here mate. The owners, board and CEO can be idiots and Ralf can be an idiot too. Please, please defend his managerial stint, after all we’ve learned about how he FURTHER poisoned the dressing room, his selection of coaches, the lack of match preparation, how he relied on coaches not even at the matches to suggest substitutions, last minute game day prep. Seriously, criticize Ole all you want, but you have 28,883 posts on this forum, and your next post will render the previous ones irrelevant if you say the wrong thing.

 

[Ted Lasso]

There can be two things here mate. The owners, board and CEO can be idiots and Ralf can be an idiot too. Please, please defend his managerial stint, after all we’ve learned about how he FURTHER poisoned the dressing room, his selection of coaches, the lack of match preparation, how he relied on coaches not even at the matches to suggest substitutions, last minute game day prep. Seriously, criticize Ole all you want, but you have 28,883 posts on this forum, and your next post will render the previous ones irrelevant if you say the wrong thing.

ominous

 

[Slysi17]

No amount of that sort of thing is going to change the simple fact that Rashford, Martial, Bruno and Shaw all played the best football of their United careers under OGS. By some margin, and for protracted periods (Bruno the most, Martial the least). De Gea on the other hand suffered through the weakest part of his United career under OGS, so it's interesting that you bring him into the picture. If the arrival of Alex Telles was the only reason Shaw temporarily upped his game, then I can't wait to see what'll happen now that we've Malacia, who as far as I can tell is a much bigger threat to his position than Telles ever was.

"Stoke style of play" is really just nonsense.

And I'm not attempting to argue that OGS was a resounding success, if that's what you think. But facts are facts.

Well we didn't play attacking football under Ole. It was defensive. It's nonsense arguing otherwise.

 

[Foxbatt]

Wow, the delusion is really strong in you people. He wasn't even brought in to do that.

I guess you are being absolutely delusion. Nowhere I said that he was brought to build the structure at Manchester United.. I said his forte is that.

 

[Foxbatt]

It’s easier to “work out the numbers” because they don’t look as bad as when you review his tenure in totality. By the numbers, Ralf was the worst manager we’ve had In 50 years, he was worse than Ole even just taking into account last season, and much worse when compared to Ole’s full tenure. Furthermore, Ralf had a cream puff schedule when he joined, but the longer he was with the team, the worse the performances became. By the end, forget the opponent, we were shit no matter who we played.

‘Your crap about injuries is exactly that, utter shite. Every manager has to deal with injuries. Pogba was injured constantly under Jose and Ole as well, same with Shaw, Rashford (under Ole), Cavani wasn’t fully available for Ole either.

The thing I hate about the Ralf cult is, when you say he’s a fraud, the Ragnites always compare him to Ole, which puts you in the difficult position of defending Ole. Well let me say one thing here. Ole is a club legend, and he always will be. He’s done more in football in one year than Ralf has in a lifetime. Of course, he was a top player who has won every trophy at the club level. As a manager, he was clearly not good enough to manage United. Fine. Ralf, on the other hand, was billed as some sort of tactical genius and club building guru who was going to change United. If he was so great, why isn’t he DoF at Real or PSG? Why was he toiling in Moscow? Why hasn’t he won any major trophies in two decades as a manager? You’re literally defending a bloke who, despite 4 decades in football, has done very, very little in terms of hardware.

This is about his consultancy role and not his managerial skills. There was/is a thread about it somewhere. Only an idiot would say that he does not know how to structure a football club from bottom up.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I didn't really want him sharing the Austrian job with us. Before that I wanted him

 

[NZT-One]

Why isn't Rangnick currently busy 'building a club' somewhere else if he's some kind of genius at it?

Maybe we could all calm down a little and stop with the hyperbole. Ralf clearly has a reputation of "knowing his stuff", be that on the tactical side of things or (even more so) creating a working football environment. The word genius is poisened, I guess, some people were just happy to get rid of Ole so the happiness got to them. Just look at some of the posts in last 24 hours in this thread - you see the exact same thing just the other way around when an interim manager is labeled a fraud.

Oles time was over, the club didn't manage to find another person to come in and do the interim. All the circumstances around are somewhat unclear. It made sense to some degree, as RR is known to be proficient tactics wise (as seen in his role in defining some terms that are still relevant today). The reasons it didn't work are various, I am sure, there aren't many around here who would say it did everything perfectly but everything else failed him.

And the reason he isn't at another top club might also be, that most of them already have a structure ready and don't need somebody to set up stuff from the start (like RR did with the RB universe). He obviously knows what he is doing, he has a track record. Throwing his expertise away, just comes across as massively arrogant and daft. Especially knowing, that the people in charge since quite some time, aren't really cracks as well.

Which league winning sides has Ralf built again? In his 30+ years in football, how many major trophies has he won, either as a manager or DoF?

I was in camp that Ole needed to leave after the Liverpool debacle. I was actually looking forward to Ralf, but wow was I wrong. I would flip it on you and say that the Ole outers have generally tried to defend Ralf as a decent manager, to somehow justify Ole being sacked. The Ole sacking doesn’t need to be justified. 99% of the Caf agrees, it was time for him to go. He wasn’t good enough. All of that is true, but it is also true that Ralf was an absolute fraud, was an awful, awful manager and he actually created more problems than he solved. Oh, and he had the worst record for a United manager in 50 years.

Maybe you could ask yourself, why you are ready to state that Ole simply wasn't up for it, "not good enough" - but with RR, you label him an awful fraud. Something is fishy seeing so many react so emotionally about this topic. I didn't really understand anybody in this thread to glorify RRs achievements as a coach. The thread has been bumped because we seemingly dismissed all his advices with (again seemingly) the sole reason being that he wasn't able to turn the tide as a manager. As stated above, that alone comes across at least as not very proactive and self-reflective - knowing that the people in charge have no real trackrecord or visible potential, it appears even daft and arrogant. The most dangerous thing in business is people who aren't aware of their own shortcomings. That is, why RR advices are still a topic for some fans. Because the current decision makers, in connection with our demeanour in the transfer window to this day, are seemingly not even aware of being in need of every help and support they could get.

Personally I am not fixated on RR. I think, he said a lot things that made quite some sense. The way the RB universe handles recruitment is very good, it is definitely something we could learn a thing or two from but ultimatively we could just bring in a nobody as long as he has a certain plan in mind that the whole hierarchy can buy in then. Because this is what we are lacking. And for all we know, either Murtough isn't powerful enough or he isn't very good at being the one responsible for streamlining all footballing matters.

 

[DSG]

This is about his consultancy role and not his managerial skills. There was/is a thread about it somewhere. Only an idiot would say that he does not know how to structure a football club from bottom up.

Okay… where are the incredible successes of his as a DoF and football executive? Trophies?

RB Leipzig is a situation where they had unlimited spending power and avoided the German 50+1 rule. Seriously, where are the trophies???

 

[DSG]

Maybe we could all calm down a little and stop with the hyperbole. Ralf clearly has a reputation of "knowing his stuff", be that on the tactical side of things or (even more so) creating a working football environment. The word genius is poisened, I guess, some people were just happy to get rid of Ole so the happiness got to them. Just look at some of the posts in last 24 hours in this thread - you see the exact same thing just the other way around when an interim manager is labeled a fraud.

Oles time was over, the club didn't manage to find another person to come in and do the interim. All the circumstances around are somewhat unclear. It made sense to some degree, as RR is known to be proficient tactics wise (as seen in his role in defining some terms that are still relevant today). The reasons it didn't work are various, I am sure, there aren't many around here who would say it did everything perfectly but everything else failed him.

And the reason he isn't at another top club might also be, that most of them already have a structure ready and don't need somebody to set up stuff from the start (like RR did with the RB universe). He obviously knows what he is doing, he has a track record. Throwing his expertise away, just comes across as massively arrogant and daft. Especially knowing, that the people in charge since quite some time, aren't really cracks as well.


Maybe you could ask yourself, why you are ready to state that Ole simply wasn't up for it, "not good enough" - but with RR, you label him an awful fraud. Something is fishy seeing so many react so emotionally about this topic. I didn't really understand anybody in this thread to glorify RRs achievements as a coach. The thread has been bumped because we seemingly dismissed all his advices with (again seemingly) the sole reason being that he wasn't able to turn the tide as a manager. As stated above, that alone comes across at least as not very proactive and self-reflective - knowing that the people in charge have no real trackrecord or visible potential, it appears even daft and arrogant. The most dangerous thing in business is people who aren't aware of their own shortcomings. That is, why RR advices are still a topic for some fans. Because the current decision makers, in connection with our demeanour in the transfer window to this day, are seemingly not even aware of being in need of every help and support they could get.

Personally I am not fixated on RR. I think, he said a lot things that made quite some sense. The way the RB universe handles recruitment is very good, it is definitely something we could learn a thing or two from but ultimatively we could just bring in a nobody as long as he has a certain plan in mind that the whole hierarchy can buy in then. Because this is what we are lacking. And for all we know, either Murtough isn't powerful enough or he isn't very good at being the one responsible for streamlining all footballing matters.

Ole was a caretaker that we could all kind of see was not going to win us a bunch of trophies, not an incredible tactician, but would keep us relevant and in the CL spots while we built a platform at the youth level and in the transfer market for success. At some point, it was clear he would move on.

Ralf was sold to the fan base as an innovative tactician, a club builder. He was a fraud because he’s neither. It’s not his fault necessarily, his image has been built by the media. He’s very good in a press conference and he’s loved by journalists because he provides great sound bytes. But we’ve learned that he’s a one trick pony, he can’t manage a big club, he’s a poor day-to-day and in game tactician and he literally could not analyze video and build a game plan. His career win % is 47%… He’s never won a major trophy as a manager. Given that, I would say he was not capable enough to manage one of the top clubs in the world. So, yes, it seems like he’s a fraud. He had a coach in Russia send him lineups, substitutions and game prep. At this level, it’s unacceptable. Can you imagine Conte, Pep, Klopp, Tuchel or Ancelotti doing that?

 

[DSG]

ominous

Just a bit over dramatic

 

[MadDogg]

The thing I hate about the Ralf cult is, when you say he’s a fraud, the Ragnites always compare him to Ole, which puts you in the difficult position of defending Ole. Well let me say one thing here. Ole is a club legend, and he always will be. He’s done more in football in one year than Ralf has in a lifetime. Of course, he was a top player who has won every trophy at the club level. As a manager, he was clearly not good enough to manage United. Fine. Ralf, on the other hand, was billed as some sort of tactical genius and club building guru who was going to change United. If he was so great, why isn’t he DoF at Real or PSG? Why was he toiling in Moscow? Why hasn’t he won any major trophies in two decades as a manager? You’re literally defending a bloke who, despite 4 decades in football, has done very, very little in terms of hardware.

The thing is I don't want to be defending Ralf, just like you don't want to be put in the difficult position of defending Ole.

As I've said in every post, Ralf wasn't good enough as a manager. But completely ignoring the extenuating circumstances that he was having to deal with to categorically call him the worst we've had had doesn't sit right with me. He didn't have any input whatsoever into building the team. He came into a dressing room that was already blatantly broken and filled with with numerous players having the worst season of their career. He had a huge injury list (other managers of course had to deal with injury-hit periods, but they lasted for a relatively short period of their managerial career whereas for Ralf it was about half, with a number of them barely available for his entire time). He had to deal with the coaches of the club leaving, and then not being able to get any decent coaches in during the middle of the season for an interim period.

Ralf didn't manage to improve things from where Ole had left them. That is on him. But everything that he had to deal with started under Ole. Who I absolutely love as a player and will always have a soft spot for even as a manager, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that he was far more at fault for what happened last season than Ralf was. The players quite blatantly giving up and not bothering to work under either manager are also more at fault for me (and by extension, since Ole had those players for multiple years that again does come back on him).

 

[Volumiza]

The thing is I don't want to be defending Ralf, just like you don't want to be put in the difficult position of defending Ole.

As I've said in every post, Ralf wasn't good enough as a manager. But completely ignoring the extenuating circumstances that he was having to deal with to categorically call him the worst we've had had doesn't sit right with me. He didn't have any input whatsoever into building the team. He came into a dressing room that was already blatantly broken and filled with with numerous players having the worst season of their career. He had a huge injury list (other managers of course had to deal with injury-hit periods, but they lasted for a relatively short period of their managerial career whereas for Ralf it was about half, with a number of them barely available for his entire time). He had to deal with the coaches of the club leaving, and then not being able to get any decent coaches in during the middle of the season for an interim period.

Ralf didn't manage to improve things from where Ole had left them. That is on him. But everything that he had to deal with started under Ole. Who I absolutely love as a player and will always have a soft spot for even as a manager, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that he was far more at fault for what happened last season than Ralf was. The players quite blatantly giving up and not bothering to work under either manager are also more at fault for me (and by extension, since Ole had those players for multiple years that again does come back on him).

Agree with pretty much all of that. Thumbsup.gif

 

[frostbite]

It’s easier to “work out the numbers” because they don’t look as bad as when you review his tenure in totality. By the numbers, Ralf was the worst manager we’ve had In 50 years, he was worse than Ole even just taking into account last season, and much worse when compared to Ole’s full tenure. Furthermore, Ralf had a cream puff schedule when he joined, but the longer he was with the team, the worse the performances became. By the end, forget the opponent, we were shit no matter who we played.

‘Your crap about injuries is exactly that, utter shite. Every manager has to deal with injuries. Pogba was injured constantly under Jose and Ole as well, same with Shaw, Rashford (under Ole), Cavani wasn’t fully available for Ole either.

The thing I hate about the Ralf cult is, when you say he’s a fraud, the Ragnites always compare him to Ole, which puts you in the difficult position of defending Ole. Well let me say one thing here. Ole is a club legend, and he always will be. He’s done more in football in one year than Ralf has in a lifetime. Of course, he was a top player who has won every trophy at the club level. As a manager, he was clearly not good enough to manage United. Fine. Ralf, on the other hand, was billed as some sort of tactical genius and club building guru who was going to change United. If he was so great, why isn’t he DoF at Real or PSG? Why was he toiling in Moscow? Why hasn’t he won any major trophies in two decades as a manager? You’re literally defending a bloke who, despite 4 decades in football, has done very, very little in terms of hardware.

You are correct 100%.

Let me add that after he left United he did not get a position as a DoF. He got a position as a manager of Austria. So, he considers himself a football manager, not a DoF. (Or basically he is happy to find any football related job. After all, he is 64 and does not have too many choices. )

Another thing is the "two years as a consultant". It seems to me that the Ralf cult confuses the word "consultant" with the position "DoF". It is not the same thing. Ralf was never considered for the DoF position at Man Utd. The "consultant" thing was a vague part-time gig so that he wouldn't be unemployed, and the club gave him this because he left his position in Russia. Since he did find another job this was scraped.

 

[RedPed]

I guess you are being absolutely delusion. Nowhere I said that he was brought to build the structure at Manchester United.. I said his forte is that.

Even that is a myth. Everyone keeps throwing those claims around without any substantive corroboration. Can you actually specify definitively what he has done? Break it down for me....please!

 

[RedDevilFan01]

You are correct 100%.

Let me add that after he left United he did not get a position as a DoF. He got a position as a manager of Austria. So, he considers himself a football manager, not a DoF. (Or basically he is happy to find any football related job. After all, he is 64 and does not have too many choices. )

Another thing is the "two years as a consultant". It seems to me that the Ralf cult confuses the word "consultant" with the position "DoF". It is not the same thing. Ralf was never considered for the DoF position at Man Utd. The "consultant" thing was a vague part-time gig so that he wouldn't be unemployed, and the club gave him this because he left his position in Russia. Since he did find another job this was scraped.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...-ralf-rangnick-appointment-as-interim-manager
They have written,
at first -
" Following this period, Ralf and the club have agreed that he will continue in a consultancy role for a further two years. "
Next -
“ Everyone at the club is looking forward to working with him during the season ahead, and then for a further two years in his advisory role.”

Here, a Consultant and an Advisory are two terms and meanings. It seems to me that the club itself is not even sure what his (Ralf) position is going to be at this club. A new long-term manager will have a different approach and thus might not go with Ralf which seems more obvious to me and that is what exactly happened. So, I believe this is why Ralf Rangnick's consultancy or advisory role has been scrapped.

Now, it will be very harsh to say - his performance might be the reason that he is not with the club today. This is not fair, knowing the amount of time he was given with the club as an Interim (which is until the end of the season 2021/22) and on the other side, the club was hoping to extend his contract for 2 years after this interim.

Correct me if I'm wrong here - I have not seen any consultancy or Advisory position for the men's team in the club available before, such roles are only for emergency needs which they were hoping to make one. That's what I think.

 

[frostbite]

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...-ralf-rangnick-appointment-as-interim-manager
They have written,
at first -
" Following this period, Ralf and the club have agreed that he will continue in a consultancy role for a further two years. "
Next -
“ Everyone at the club is looking forward to working with him during the season ahead, and then for a further two years in his advisory role.”

Here, a Consultant and an Advisory are two terms and meanings. It seems to me that the club itself is not even sure what his (Ralf) position is going to be at this club. A new long-term manager will have a different approach and thus might not go with Ralf which seems more obvious to me and that is what exactly happened. So, I believe this is why Ralf Rangnick's consultancy or advisory role has been scrapped.

Now, it will be very harsh to say - his performance might be the reason that he is not with the club today. This is not fair, knowing the amount of time he was given with the club as an Interim (which is until the end of the season 2021/22) and on the other side, the club was hoping to extend his contract for 2 years after this interim.

Correct me if I'm wrong here - I have not seen any consultancy or Advisory position for the men's team in the club available before, such roles are only for emergency needs which they were hoping to make one. That's what I think.

Right, he would be just a consultant, a nobody, not a DoF.

He preferred to become a manager of Austria, rather than become a mere consultant that nobody gives a fart about.

 

[LazyGoal]

Rangnick as a manager at United was a failure. This thread is not about his managerial capabilities. It's about him building the football structure of a club.
People who are slating this aspect of him are the same people who were strong Ole in brigade. They are upset that he got the job and their golden boy got the sack and RR said we need to get a lot more new players. Players Ole indulged in.
The same people are completely ignoring the fact that ETH should have no say in who is the DOF or any consultant they hire. It's not his job or remit.

No thats not it atleast not for me.

My problem with him was the lack of focus on winning games, he tryd instead to build teams and squad for the long run. Well here we are in the long run, but we have nothing.

 

[justsomebloke]

Well we didn't play attacking football under Ole. It was defensive. It's nonsense arguing otherwise.

Well, if you think that there's no point arguing with you about that I guess. Also, it's irrelevant to the point under discussion.

 

[RedPed]

Ralf didn't manage to improve things from where Ole had left them. That is on him. But everything that he had to deal with started under Ole. Who I absolutely love as a player and will always have a soft spot for even as a manager, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that he was far more at fault for what happened last season than Ralf was. The players quite blatantly giving up and not bothering to work under either manager are also more at fault for me (and by extension, since Ole had those players for multiple years that again does come back on him).

Not saying you are one, but this is what the Rangnites do...they have a unique set of excuses that only apply to Wreck-It and no other manager in world football.

98% of all managers join a club because something has gone wrong with the previous guy, whether it be players not playing for him, losing the dressing room, poor team selections, just plain bad luck or whatever the reason. But the new guy is always brought in because the club believe he can stop the rot at least and reverse their fortunes. He's aware of the situation he's going into, usually, and must have assured the board that he can do something with the team he is inheriting. So when he takes the job, the responsibility becomes his.....forget the previous guy.

Ole was in the same position when he took over at United and let's not forget he was only also interim at the time. But United gave him the gig, full time. Why? Because he actually got results and went on that 15-game unbeaten run culminating in that historic PSG reversal. Were United a bit hasty in making him manager? Maybe, but that's a different conversation.

Wreck-It knew what he was going into and must have assured the bosses that he can do something and work with what he is inheriting. He didn't take the job with a guarantee that United would make one or two immediate signings etc., to get him through the season. So taking the easy route and absolving him of any responsibility is just bullshit. If he had got us top 4, nobody would be thanking Ole for it. But he couldn't even muster the new manager bounce out of the team. It was pretty obvious he wasn't even bothered and out of his depth.

 

[justsomebloke]

It's worth noting that Ralf's period in charge wasn't even the worst of that season. He had a superior points per game and goal differential than what Ole had before he got sacked. Indeed he was superior than Mourinho was the season he was sacked as well. The league results of all the managers we've had since Fergie in their final season (not counting the couple of games of Carrick and Giggs):

Rangnick 21/22
24 matches
37 points (1.54 points per game)
0 goal difference

Ole 21/22
12 matches
17 points (1.41 points per game)
-1 goal difference

Mourinho 18/19
17 matches
26 points (1.52 points per game)
0 goal difference

LVG
38 matches
66 points (1.73 points per game)
+14 goal difference

Moyes
34 matches
57 points (1.67 points per game)
+16 goal difference

Considering Moyes inherited the defending champions full of absolute winners (albeit on their last legs) and the other three built their teams themselves, I'd say all of them bar LVG were worse in their final seasons than Ralf was. Ralf had a terrible end to the season which makes it feel worse than it was, but before that he was actually doing fairly well (his first 12 games had 7 wins, 4 draws and 1 loss). Don't get me wrong, he obviously didn't do well. But how bad it actually was gets over-stated. Like I said, he wasn't even the worst of that season. Combine that with him taking over a dressing room that obviously had immense problems (thanks to the the previous guy who had done even worse), and I have some sympathy for him. It was bad, but there were things contributing to that that were completely out of his control.

Right. it's just that the operative word there is "sacked". Having a better record than two other managers in the season they were sacked is not actually much of an argument. To defend RRs results during his tenure is absurd - it was atrocious, and it is to me completely obvious that he was nothing other than a clear failure in that role.

 

[InspiRED]

Wow any posting in here is clearly triggering for some posters in here. Odd.

I don’t really see how those who have seen how this transfer window has gone, how the opening game went and then concluding that RR had some poignant recommendations which are completely at odds with current strategy are therefore some kind of cult who set themselves up with RR shrines to worship at. It’s ridiculous. What does it even contribute? Just sounds like ‘blah blah I’m right you’re s d*ckhead!’ to me. Great..

Probably the umpteenth time this has been said, but our transfer strategy is clearly not working that great. We have struggled for years to get signings over the line due to penny pinching and becoming less attractive to high profile players due to a malaise. Therefore, probably was a salient recommendation that, given those circumstances, we should target young hungry players who are at an earlier stage of their career and are well scouted to give a good probability they can make the step up, it’s surely undisputed that RR had some success with recruiting players in his time at Red Bull clubs. Do they have to win trophies or these recruitments were just useless nothings hired by the worst fraud who ever lived? Anyone else struggling with the logic of this?

 

[El Jefe]

The Rangnites are going to try to keep this thread relevant all year aren't they?

The Ole threads have been inactive since we hired EtH because it's only right but the Ralf boys just won't give up. Kicking up a fuss about a remote 6 days a month consultancy is pretty hilarious as is defending his horrible tenure.

 

[justsomebloke]

Wow any posting in here is clearly triggering for some posters in here. Odd.

I don’t really see how those who have seen how this transfer window has gone, how the opening game went and then concluding that RR had some poignant recommendations which are completely at odds with current strategy are therefore some kind of cult who set themselves up with RR shrines to worship at. It’s ridiculous. What does it even contribute? Just sounds like ‘blah blah I’m right you’re s d*ckhead!’ to me. Great..

Probably the umpteenth time this has been said, but our transfer strategy is clearly not working that great. We have struggled for years to get signings over the line due to penny pinching and becoming less attractive to high profile players due to a malaise. Therefore, probably was a salient recommendation that, given those circumstances, we should target young hungry players who are at an earlier stage of their career and are well scouted to give a good probability they can make the step up, it’s surely undisputed that RR had some success with recruiting players in his time at Red Bull clubs. Do they have to win trophies or these recruitments were just useless nothings hired by the worst fraud who ever lived? Anyone else struggling with the logic of this?

Yep. Though in fairness, there are posts here that (amazingly) argues for RRs results as a coach, or assumes he was brought in to be DoF.

 

[NZT-One]

To be fair, I am not entirely sure, if there is really anything like a Ralf cult going on. I might be able to understand the perspective of some people who were wildly dissatisfied, with what he achieved, fair enough. I could also understand, that their expectations were a bit shattered because Ralf came in with a bit of a hype he then wasn't able to fulfill. But maybe, maybe what is going on here could be seen as some sort of witch hunt and just like with Ole at some point in his tenure, Ralf is the target in this. And some people feel the need to step in for his case, just like some people felt that necessity for Ole.

For me, the single pain point at this point in time is, why would we ignore any advice from a competent football person with a proven trackrecord. We are talking about advices here, no obligations, no forces, no strings attached. Just advice. Seeing the way we conduct our recruitment this summer isn't really good. Having some support might have helped. Maybe that could be the common ground for all of us.

 

[sugar_kane]

Hopefully someone has already pointed out that our transfer window might have been a bit more straightforward had Ralf not shat the bed last season as a coach?

The Ralf worship on here is really nauseating, he only has such status because he acted like he was a member of Red Cafe, “we need ten new signings… all the players are shit!” then wondered why the players wouldn’t run for him.

No manager survives or gets results when he turns on the players publicly.

There’s no doubt he is an excellent DoF, but acting like he was anything other than just another out of his depth hire from the Man United banter years is deluded.

 

[NZT-One]

Ole was a caretaker that we could all kind of see was not going to win us a bunch of trophies, not an incredible tactician, but would keep us relevant and in the CL spots while we built a platform at the youth level and in the transfer market for success. At some point, it was clear he would move on.

Aren't you doing the same thing now that you complain about other people doing? Loading more stuff and intentions into Oles tenure? Who said, his job was to keep us relevant and build a platform at the youth level? Why would you think, that those objectives would be exclusive to Ole ^^ The club spent what 400 millions on his transfer targets, if you really think, the mere target was to "keep us relevant", I think, your view isn't really clear.

Ralf was sold to the fan base as an innovative tactician, a club builder. He was a fraud because he’s neither. It’s not his fault necessarily, his image has been built by the media. He’s very good in a press conference and he’s loved by journalists because he provides great sound bytes. But we’ve learned that he’s a one trick pony, he can’t manage a big club, he’s a poor day-to-day and in game tactician and he literally could not analyze video and build a game plan. His career win % is 47%… He’s never won a major trophy as a manager. Given that, I would say he was not capable enough to manage one of the top clubs in the world. So, yes, it seems like he’s a fraud. He had a coach in Russia send him lineups, substitutions and game prep. At this level, it’s unacceptable. Can you imagine Conte, Pep, Klopp, Tuchel or Ancelotti doing that?

A) He is is exactly that, he has a track record to define terms that are relevant today. Those days are in the past though. A bit like with LVG. And he is a club builder, as seen with RB universe, which, in contrast to what you are depicting it, hasn't unlimited funds in the slightest. RB has deep pockets but that is shared between at least three football clubs. Yes, the money they had made it easier for them to march through the lower leagues but until then it hasn't been extraordinary in the slightest. On the other hand, RB must be one of the best sellers of talent these days. Obviously nobody will want to replicate that on United 1:1. But RBs model is based on identifying talented players and put them together in a good and fitting, modern tactical setup to max the output.
B) This is what marketing and public relations does. It is how betting companies try to connect fun and adventure to put money on football results. Or how ladies hygiene products are connected with freedom and Independence. As I said, I am sorry, that all this led to expectations he couldn't fulfill. Isn't that somehow always the case? The louder the voices against a coach, the louder the voices for a new coach, and the ones who were defending the old coach will be even louder critizing the new one.

You calling him a fraud seems very unreasonable to me. Same as it felt when People called Ole a fraud. As if those people intentionally creating a false image of himself to get into a certain position to then reap the rewards. How would that go in an environment where the spotlight is as bright as it is in top flight football. Calling somebody a fraud will always lead to somewhat pointless discussions just because people are getting triggered. And again, the same patterns emerge as with Ole, we have one side calling the other a cult ^^ It is insanity.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

Hopefully someone has already pointed out that our transfer window might have been a bit more straightforward had Ralf not shat the bed last season as a coach?

The Ralf worship on here is really nauseating, he only has such status because he acted like he was a member of Red Cafe, “we need ten new signings… all the players are shit!” then wondered why the players wouldn’t run for him.

No manager survives or gets results when he turns on the players publicly.

There’s no doubt he is an excellent DoF, but acting like he was anything other than just another out of his depth hire from the Man United banter years is deluded.

Ralf's biggest mistake was accepting the United job as an " interim manager". He should have been more straightforward: "Give me a job befitting my strong points, or go away!". At least we wouldn't still have arguments on the CAF about him until now.

Imagine Raf is a high-profile engineer who creates racing cars. Manchester United is a racing car that is old and broken-down. Raf agreed to use his engineering skills to fix us. But the old driver (Ole) was fired mid-way when the race was still ongoing, and Raf was offered to try driving that car to "get to know its issues better". Guess what? He didn't finish the race in top 4 because he obviously just was not a racer. So the board fired him because "He didn't drive that well". A nonsense scenario, yet it happened. The engineer was not even given a chance to do his job.

So people can criticize Raf as a manager (Driver) in whatever way they want. That would ultimately be a moot point because he just is not. The criticism should only fall on the board who decided to fire an engineer because he could not drive as well as professional racers. If you ONLY want a racer and not an engineer, hire one from the beginning.

 

[stefan92]

Okay… where are the incredible successes of his as a DoF and football executive? Trophies?

RB Leipzig is a situation where they had unlimited spending power and avoided the German 50+1 rule. Seriously, where are the trophies???

They just won the German cup and established themselves as a CL level club in record time, while not having significantly more spending power than other company clubs like Leverkusen or Wolfsburg and also not being on par with Dortmund or even Bayern in that regard. So the outcome for the money invested in Leipzig is excellent so far and look quite sustainable (which is also his contribution, building a structure that can compete in Germany without the need for unlimited spending, which RB just couldn't afford.

When you think RB has unlimited spending power you are absolutely delusional and simply don't know the facts about the club.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

The thing is, Manchester United does need "open heart surgery", as he suggested. And regardless of what Murtough, Glazers, Arnold and even ten Hag say, this club is not going to be competitive with current players and setup.

The only thing we are going to achieve without, as it was called, "open heart surgery", is another wasted season.

If ten Hag doesn't acknowledge the shitshow he is in, then I'm sorry, but he is probably a bit of a yes man to hierarchy.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

The Rangnites are going to try to keep this thread relevant all year aren't they?

The Ole threads have been inactive since we hired EtH because it's only right but the Ralf boys just won't give up. Kicking up a fuss about a remote 6 days a month consultancy is pretty hilarious as is defending his horrible tenure.

This thread is being kept relevant for a couple of reasons. The first one being that Rangnick has a lot more experience than Murtough in his respective position so people are calling out the club for not using that experience and instead sticking with someone who doesn't have the first clue on what it takes to successfully build a squad capable of winning titles.

The second reason is calling out posters who keep regurgitating absolute garbage that Ralf has done nothing in the footballing world. Its getting beyond ignorant at this point.

 

[Foxbatt]

Okay… where are the incredible successes of his as a DoF and football executive? Trophies?

RB Leipzig is a situation where they had unlimited spending power and avoided the German 50+1 rule. Seriously, where are the trophies???

He was not only a DOF for one club but the whole Red Bull empire. Just Google as to what he has done. By the way even as a poor coach he won the German Cup with a team that's not predicted to win it.
Why are big clubs not hiring him? No need as they have a proper structure in place and hence why they are successful.

 

[DSG]

He was not only a DOF for one club but the whole Red Bull empire. Just Google as to what he has done. By the way even as a poor coach he won the German Cup with a team that's not predicted to win it.
Why are big clubs not hiring him? No need as they have a proper structure in place and hence why they are successful.

He won one German Cup in 20+ years of management when he came in around mid March of that year when they were already in the finals. Shalke beat a 2nd division team for the cup…

Since RB Leipzig gained promotion to the Bundesliga, they’ve won one single trophy, the German Cup in 21/22. Ralf was long gone.

They just won the German cup and established themselves as a CL level club in record time, while not having significantly more spending power than other company clubs like Leverkusen or Wolfsburg and also not being on par with Dortmund or even Bayern in that regard. So the outcome for the money invested in Leipzig is excellent so far and look quite sustainable (which is also his contribution, building a structure that can compete in Germany without the need for unlimited spending, which RB just couldn't afford.

When you think RB has unlimited spending power you are absolutely delusional and simply don't know the facts about the club.

Their spending power during their rise from lower leagues to the Bundesliga was much much more than the clubs around them.

Since joining the Bundesliga in 2016, they are 3rd in total spending, behind Dortmund and Bayern. They are closer to Bayern and Dortmund in total spend than Leverkusen is to them. They spent roughly 200m more than Leverkusen and Wolfsburg during that time. In net spend, they are also 3rd in transfer deficit, behind Bayern and 15m behind Wolfsburg.

‘It’s a big club, it subverted many of the rules in German football, and Red Bull have used their special status to invest much more in a relative sense than the clubs around them. This has continued in the Bundesliga.

When you really dig into what RB Leipzig has done, it’s certainly impressive how quickly they’ve moved up, but then you realize that basically, Ralf was outspending everyone else in the Bundesliga bar Dortmund and Bayern, it’s not surprising.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/bundes...&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

I just don’t see genius here, I see a guy who got in at the right time, had clear advantages in spending power and made some good buys in the transfer market, FM style.

 

[stefan92]

I just don’t see genius here, I see a guy who got in at the right time, had clear advantages in spending power and made some good buys in the transfer market, FM style.

It was a lot of money well spend. Looking at for example Wolfsburg wasted their money it was a job well done.

Though I would agree it's not necessary to call Rangnick a genius for that.

 

[Tommy79]

Rangnick's 24 league games in charge: 37 points
Van Gaal's first 24 league games: 44 points
Mourinho: 45 points
Moyes: 40 points
Solskjaer: 44 points

Works pretty well as a ranking of all of them, actually! Rangnick and Moyes managing to stand out in the sea of mediocrity

Thanks for the info mate, damn didn't realise how close Ole, José and the mad man were.

 

[RedDevilMachine]

He is the most pointless manager we've ever had. All he does is complain. He is even worse than Ole. At least Ole gives us the occasional high. This guy just reeks of defeatist. Has to go down as the WORST interim manager for a big club. We never seem to do well with Germans or anyone coming in from Germany.

 

[Ayoba]

We do need open heart surgery

 

[IrishRedDevil]

10 new players. He called it.

 

[paulscholes18]

Knee-jerk post of the week but feck it. We would have been better off giving Rangnick an 18 month contract and backing him in January and we would be in a much better position then we are right now.

 

[Swordsman]

so 10 in 10 out is a must.