The pain in the arse battle is we all end up having to put down one greats abilities to make a case for the others. I find it incredibly hard to pick just one all time best. I feel like we have a top 10 who are all really close to each other on the football pitch, different strengths and weaknesses but still gods all of them.
Rank Maradona, Messi, Pele and Ronaldo
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
A lie
Trying to rank them is daft. Different eras. But in case you are too young to have seen him in action, Pele was magnificent - and he did it with heavy balls and against tackles that would be booking/sending off offences today in every game (he was kicked to bits and out of the 1966 World Cup). And he was the star of the 1970 Brazil team that was the best I've ever seen. Maestro. RIP.
mmm ok, guys - I'm italian, I was a kid back then, but old enough to remember that era.
Ask some other gen.X italian here if you want.
No way I'm trying to diminish Maradona impact on Napoli.
From '86 to '90 that team did 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st; got a Scudetto-Coppa Italia double in 86-87, Uefa cup in '89.
The only reasons that they didn't win an astonishing 4-in-a-row were:
- spectacular blunder toward the end of the 87-88 season which allowed an epic comeback from Sacchi's Milan (a blunder that's still talked about today, with allegations of huge locker-room infightings, and even the suspect that the neapolitan Camorra had collected illegal bets on Napoli from like half the city which they really didn't want to end up paying...)
- Trapattoni's Inter pulling the most perfect season out of the blue in 88-89 with their new buys, which included Mattheus and Brehme (their points record for a 18-teams league still stands today).
The team was never the best on paper in any of those four seasons, and would've very probably won exactly jack sh*t without him.
Maradona was the heart, soul and brain of that team, he elevated and inspired them day-in day-out for 4 years straight, and was undisputedly recognized as the very best among the bests in a league that had just everybody playing in at the time.
So yeah, massive achievement. No downplaying, it is what it is.
BUT.
Napoli was by no means whatsoever a mediocre team from '86 to '90.
They were just an average mid-table club when Maradona joined them in '84, yeah.
An average mid-table club with massive ambitions and the guts and means to steal the best player in the world from Barcelona and build from there.
Sporting director was a certain Luciano Moggi, of later Lippi/Capello Juventus fame, who apart from the issue of being a cheater and a convicted criminal, is certainly a dude who knew a thing or two about how to effectively assemble a team.
The team that won the first scudetto two years later, I believe their first-11 featured three players tops that were already at Napoli when Maradona joined.
They had crazy horse Garella in goal, who had won the Scudetto with Verona in '85.
Pillar of the defense was Ciro Ferrara who later on will play more than a decade with Juventus featuring in 4 CL finals.
Renica and Bruscolotti names won't mean nothing to anybody here but they were very solid and competent old school italian defenders.
Midfield engine was Bagni - De Napoli who were the first-choice midfield for Italy at WC '86.
Strikers, they had Bruno Giordano, again a name that may ring no bells today but he was a very gifted and respected Serie A forward.
His partner Andrea Carnevale was no slouch either, selected for WC '90.
The team that won the second in 89-90 was rejuvenated, again 6-7 new names in the first eleven, they had added Luca Fusi as DM (again, obscure name but very solid and competent, long career), Alemao as CM (Brazil first teamer at Italia '90) and Careca upfront, again first choice striker for Brazil, extremely gifted, only Van Basten IMHO was better than him in Serie A at the time.
Really, as others have mentioned it's hard to compare teams from different leagues and ages, but just for reference with today's Premier, you really can't go lower than Tottenham as a comparision of relative strengths. At worst.
Also, regarding the opponents: the hottest teams in Serie A when Maradona arrived were Juventus and Roma. Milan were in tatters. Inter was doing ok but was trying to figure out how to truly improve.
When Napoli was hot and ready to compete in '86-'87, Roma and Juventus were end-of-cycle (and indeed Hellas Verona had already been able to pull a Leicester in 84-85).
Especially Juventus: Trapattoni had just moved to Inter after ten years there coaching what many consider the best Juventus ever, they were in a situation very similar to Man. Utd right post Ferguson. They tried to keep putting up a fight that season but capitulated in spring.
(and '86-'94 ended up being the driest spell in Juve's history. From '88 to '90, their "star" foreign players were Zavarov and Rui Barros. Decent guys but, yeah, not the Juventus that people usually think of).
Milan: Berlusconi had just arrived, coach was still Liedholm, legendary name, but pretty old, ended up being sacked towards the end of the season.
That legendary Milan back-four was already there, and they had just bought Donadoni, but: no Gullit, Van Basten, Ancelotti, Rijkaard, Evani yet that season. And no Sacchi.
Inter: as mentioned they were just starting to build with Trapattoni.
The following seasons were another story: Sacchi's Milan shocking the world, Trap's Inter firing on all cylinders, and that wondrous Sampdoria (phenomenal team... Vialli, Mancini, Vierchowod, Cerezo, Mykhaylychenko, Dossena, Lombardo, Pagliuca...), they all were really top top top notch competition for Napoli's 2nd.
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1) Messi
2) Pelé
3) Maradona
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7) Cristiano
2) Pelé
3) Maradona
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7) Cristiano
Great post.
They're all great players of the game. Its silly to rank them.
Very very hard to do; you have to put them all at their peak. Ronaldo had great strength in the air, power on the ground. He made himself great through willpower. Both Pele and Messi had more vision, perhaps Messi stronger there. Pele was a cooler cat, blessed with bottomless natural talent with a ball. Maradona incredible too. I never saw any of them in real life. Privileged to have seen all …. Plus Eusebio, plus Best, Cantona and Hagi too … on TV. All these people brought colour to our lives.
Pele and Maradona
Messi.
Messi.
1 - Maradona
2 - Pele
3 - Messi
4 - Cruyff
5 - Puskas
6 - Best
7 - Ronaldo (R9)
8 - C. Ronaldo
9 - Beckenbaeur
10 - Charlton
Quick list, though ask me again tomorrow and I'd probably change it. De Stefano probably deserves to be in there in all honesty.
2 - Pele
3 - Messi
4 - Cruyff
5 - Puskas
6 - Best
7 - Ronaldo (R9)
8 - C. Ronaldo
9 - Beckenbaeur
10 - Charlton
Quick list, though ask me again tomorrow and I'd probably change it. De Stefano probably deserves to be in there in all honesty.
1. Messi
2. Pele
3. Maradona
4. Ronaldo
Inches between Pele and Messi, could go either way. Don't really get how Maradona can still be spoken of in the same breath as those two, despite how brilliant he was. Ronaldo, despite also being extrodinary is never breaking into that top 3.
2. Pele
3. Maradona
4. Ronaldo
Inches between Pele and Messi, could go either way. Don't really get how Maradona can still be spoken of in the same breath as those two, despite how brilliant he was. Ronaldo, despite also being extrodinary is never breaking into that top 3.
Messi
Pelé
Maradona
Not fair for El Fenomeno to be compared to the absolute greats. He was a fantastic football but a tier below. So bad, his peak was short and his career plagued by injuries.
Pelé
Maradona
Not fair for El Fenomeno to be compared to the absolute greats. He was a fantastic football but a tier below. So bad, his peak was short and his career plagued by injuries.
Pele/Maradona
Messi/Ronaldo
Fully agree. People don't realise what playing on very uneven pitches, footballs like a lead balloon, and people who would continually take you out without getting a yellow. Those footballs when wet would take your leg of when you tried to shoot. The balls nowadays are so easy to play with, pitches very easy and tackles easy.
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I think the criteria for who the GOAT is differentiates for each person, and it will never be clear cut. I never watched Maradona or Pele, but my opinion on the GOAT sucess criteria metrics is as follows.
All up for discussion, though my insights as to how I would evaluate a sportsman.
| Messi | Ronaldo | |
| Mentality | 9 | 10 |
| Training | 10 | 10 |
| Talent | 10 | 8 |
| Longevity/Consistency | 10 | 10 |
| Achievements | 10 | 9 |
| Adaptability | 8 | 10 |
All up for discussion, though my insights as to how I would evaluate a sportsman.
The only really fair way i think is to go by era. An interesting article by bleacher report back in 2012:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...test-soccer-player-of-every-decade-since-1920
Picking the Greatest Soccer Player of Every Decade Since 1920
Here are the greatest players, one from each decade, from the 1920s to now.
1920s: Ricardo Zamora
When a goalkeeper performs so well over an extended period of time that a century later a trophy is still handed out with his name attached to it, you know that the talent has been of an exceptional standard.
Ricardo Zamora was Spain's greatest goalkeeper ever for a time and perhaps even still is.
Having started out as a youngster with Espanyol, he spent three seasons with Barcelona, despite his parents preferring him to join them in the medical profession, before enjoying an extended spell back at Espanyol and finishing up his career with Real Madrid.
Zamora won two league titles, five Spanish cups and an Olympic silver medal, along with 46 Spanish national team caps.
To this day, the award handed out in La Liga at the end of the season to the best goalkeeper is the Zamora Trophy. This goes to the 'keeper with the best goals-conceded coefficient; the most recent holder being Victor Valdes for the past four seasons.
1930s: Giuseppe Meazza
Like Zamora from the decade previous, the star of the 1930s has his name etched into the modern-day world of football, this time in a stadium name.
Giuseppe Meazza is the name, and the stadium dedicated to his honour and memory is that of AC and Inter Milan in Italy.
Meazza was a showman, a match-winner and a footballing genius who remains Internazionale's highest all-time goal scorer, with 287 strikes to his name.
He won two World Cups as he claimed more than 50 caps for his country and added three Italian championships to his collection.
Playing either as an out-and-out striker or an attacking midfielder, as he did for his country in the first of his World Cup appearances, Giuseppe Meazza proved a true great of the game with his dribbling ability, trickery and composure.
After spending more than a decade with Inter, Meazza also appeared for AC Milan for two years.
1940s: Stanley Matthews
Fans in England in the 1940s were blessed to watch two of the finest players around at the time in Tom Finney and Stanley Matthews.
Finney arguably reached his very peak during the following decade, while Matthews graced the game for no less than 33 years at the professional level—his last top-flight appearance came after his 50th birthday, a phenomenal achievement.
Stanley Matthews played almost 800 games during his career and was never booked a single time.
Great pace, tremendous dribbling and over 50 caps for his country made him a true legend of the game.
1950s: Alfredo Di Stefano
The 1950s saw an explosion of talent, or at least much more of it was brought to the attention of the world at large.
From John Charles at Leeds to Fritz Walter at Kaiserslautern, players from around Europe showcased their abilities and laid claim to the title of best in the world.
No 50s list would be complete without a mention of Just Fontaine of course, but in truth there was a superpower at this time and they played in Spain.
Real Madrid won four league titles and four consecutive European Cups during the decade as they dominated the landscape of football, and though they had other star players—Francisco Gento being one—it was Alfredo Di Stefano who rightly should be acknowledged as the best of the 50s.
Di Stefano played in all of those trophy wins and netted over 300 times for Real Madrid.
Curiously, he also played international football for three countries during his career—though only for Spain during the 1950s.
1960s: Ferenc Puskas
If the 50s were special, then the 1960s were nothing short of mind-blowing in terms of football talent around the globe.
From the legendary Russian goalkeeper Lev Yashin through to Manchester United's Bobby Charlton and George Best, the Brazilian Garrincha and the Portuguese striker Eusebio, truly there were some timeless players in this generation whose feats will be remembered for decades yet to come.
Inter Milan's attacking full-back, Giacinto Facchetti, one of the first and finest in the game, should not be overlooked also.
Undoubtedly there will be those who champion Pele, one of the finest players of the game ever, as the best of this decade.
But there was a greater player than Pele in this era—Ferenc Puskas, the legendary Hungarian, one of the "Magical Magyars."
Puskas shone as he led his national team to the World Cup final, where they lost in 1954.
It was in the 60s though, when Puskas enjoyed arguably his finest moments and certainly the most successful spell of his career, despite being more than 30 years of age when he joined Real Madrid.
He hit four goals in the 7-3 thrashing of Eintracht Frankfurt in the 1960 European Cup final—Real's fifth consecutive triumph—and went on to win five league titles with the club in the years that followed.
Puskas was one of the greatest four or five players to have ever played the game of football and perhaps would be more roundly regarded as so had he been of a different nationality, or had his Hungary team ended successfully in 1954.
1970s: Johan Cruyff
The 1970s had its fair share of top-class talent, but one man stands firmly above them all: Johan Cruyff.
Hugo Sanchez, Teofilo Cubillas, Falcao, Rivelino, Ruud Krol and the Bayern Munich duo Sepp Maier and Franz Beckenbauer were all true greats, but none come close to eclipsing Cruyff.
Having spent his formative years making himself a worldwide phenomenon with Ajax, Cruyff moved to Barcelona in 1973, where he went on to win a Copa del Rey and a Spanish league title, having already won a hat-trick of European Cups with his former club.
Cruyff was one of the most respected players of the Dutch "Total Football" era under Rinus Michels and was an elegant, visionary player who was capable of achieving on the field of play that which others wouldn't even dream about. He is a three-time European Footballer of the Year.
1980s: Diego Maradona
Much like the previous decade, there were a whole host of outrageously talented footballers on display in the 1980s—but all of them were eclipsed by a true genius, a once-in-a-generation talent who perhaps remains the greatest individual the game has ever seen.
Diego Maradona played for Boca Juniors and Barcelona but it was at Napoli that perhaps his greatest talents were on display most regularly—as well as for his national team of Argentina, of course.
Maradona won a UEFA Cup and two Italian league championships with Napoli, but will be forever remembered for his incredible displays at the 1986 World Cup in Mexico, which he had a huge hand in Argentina winning.
Diego's legendary "Goal of the Century" was widely regarded as the greatest of all time, and for many people still is because of the occasion as much as the skill it took.
It still behooves us to at least give a cursory nod to those who, though they reached not the majestic heights which the man who brought us "the Hand of God" attained, were certainly standout players in their respective leagues and the game at large.
Michel Platini was one of the game's greats, as was Karl-Heinz Rummenigge for Bayern Munich and his teammate Lothar Matthaus. In Italy, Zbigniew Boniek was perhaps the greatest Polish player ever and plied his trade at Juventus in his prime, while Kenny Dalglish of Liverpool and Zico at Flamengo were also truly amongst the greatest players in the world.
Franco Baresi and Dino Zoff make up just a handful of these other memorable players.
1990s: Michael Laudrup
While the rest of Europe and South America have contributed players to each decade up until now, many of the very best of the footballing world resided firmly in Italy for much of the 1990s.
Serie A was the top flight for entertaining, quality football, and the fact that Italian sides made up nine of the European Cup finalists between '89 and '98 was testament to this.
In fact, the 1991 final was the only one in this period of time which did not contain a side from Italy.
Paolo Maldini and Marcel Desailly held sway for AC Milan, while Roberto Baggio dazzled everybody at Juventus, AC Milan and Bologna for a time. George Weah was another who made the majestic seem easy at times, though perhaps not with the consistency that others achieved.
Outside of Italy, Abedi Pele and Peter Schmeichel were legends in their own right, and Ronaldo perhaps was at his most devastating while playing for PSV and Barcelona in this period before his move to Inter Milan and the beginnings of his injury problems.
One more bears mentioning before we move on to the greatest of the decade: Zinedine Zidane began his rise late in this decade to become one of the best in the world from any time period.
The 1990s though belonged to Michael Laudrup, the Danish attacking midfielder playing at both Real Madrid and Barcelona.
The great Franz Beckenbauer even stated how highly he rated Laudrup, comparing him to greats of the years gone past.
Laudrup might have missed out on European Championships glory with his country in 1992 but he still collected a European Cup, an Italian league title, five league titles in Spain, another in Holland and won over a century of caps during his magnificent career.
The Danish playmaker maybe showed his best abilities at Barcelona but still had plenty left to give to rivals Real Madrid, whom he directly transferred to in 1994.
2000s: Zinedine Zidane
Zinedine Zidane at Real Madrid—there has been perhaps no finer exponent of playing the game of football to the absolute highest level without the need for breakneck speed.
Zidane moved from Juventus to Real in 2001 and, in his five years in Spain, picked up a haul of medals including a Champions League, a Spanish league title and another FIFA World Player of the Year award—his third overall.
Incredible poise, vision, accuracy of passing and sublime control made Zidane peerless in the most recently passed decade, with perhaps only Ronaldinho of Barcelona able to even closely compare to him.
The French midfielder also won a European championship while he was with Real to go alongside the World Cup he won in 1998—but his career ended on a less-than-perfect note when, in the 2006 World Cup, he was sent off in the final instead of winning it.
2010s: Leo Messi
There are only two candidates for this particular fledgling decade: Cristiano Ronaldo and Leo Messi.
And it isn't even a particularly close decision.
The two are the standout players in the most modern version of the game, athletically a world apart from the likes of Puskas or Fontaine.
In terms of pure talent, though, Messi stands head and shoulders above anybody else, and given he is yet just 25 years of age he seems set to go on and dominate the rest of the 2010s.
Playing in a fantastic team he has already won five league titles and three Champions Leagues, is a three-time winner of the Ballon d'Or, is the all-time leading goalscorer for Barcelona and is chasing down the all-time world record of scoring the most goals during one calendar year.
That currently stands at 85, held by Gerd Muller—Messi so far has 82, and several games to play in December.
He's undoubtedly the star of the present decade
Pele once said that a certain George Best was the greatest player so:
1) George Best
2) .....the rest
1) George Best
2) .....the rest
Puskas was not better than Pele in the 1960s. His best football was probably in the 1950s although he had a great late career.
I stop reading it when the title of greatest player in 1960s goes to Puskas but not Pele.
Certainly easier to compare with players of the same era. There are a few dodgy shouts in that article and it all feels too Euro-centric. Every single player played their club football in Europe, even though the strength of the club game in both continents was comparable until the 1990s and South American football was mostly ahead of Europe up until the 1960s. Would have one of the all-conquering Uruguayans and Argentinians for the 1920s and 1940s respectively. Puskas os in the wrong decade and Pele has to be Mr 1960s, while as much as I love Laudrup it’s got to be Ronaldo for the 1990s.
This. I would apply the following corrections:
1910s (added) - Arthur Friedenreich (BRA)
20s - José Nasazzi (URU)
30s - OK
40s - José Manuel Moreno (ARG)
50s - OK
60s - Pelé (BRA)
70s - OK
80s - OK
90s - Romario (BRA), altough this could be contested
00s - OK, altough this could be contested
10s - OK
- best peak of all 4 in terms of potential and who I'd want in my team to win me a game : 23 year old CR7
- best career overall : Messi by a mile
- best talent : Maradona without a shadow of a doubt
Overall: Diego, Leo, CR7, Pele
- best career overall : Messi by a mile
- best talent : Maradona without a shadow of a doubt
Overall: Diego, Leo, CR7, Pele
23 year old CR7 having the best peak is laughable. It's not even his own peak and he wasn't a great big game player at 23.
He was a much better player at Real.
Pelé
Maradona
Messi
Ronaldo
Maradona
Messi
Ronaldo
I agree..you cannot rank, you can only watch old videos of Pele to see what pure football is. People are missing the point a little when they try to compare stats. In Pele's case his name is synonymous with football and always will be. He made so many young kids not just in Brazil but around the world start kicking around a ball or even a can....He made them try tricks, a bicycle kick etc...He was such a gentleman and true spokesperson for the sport. We will miss him.
Pele
Messi
Maradona
Ronaldo
Messi
Maradona
Ronaldo
People need to put nostalgia aside. Cant compare different eras. Today have much more professional players, more tactics, nutrition experts, football is much faster etc etc.
1. Messi (And its not even close, just look at player of the match awards)
1. Messi (And its not even close, just look at player of the match awards)
My criteria are:
1 - Peak performance
2 - Longevity and Consistency
3 - Achievements
Based on that, my top 4 is:
1 - Pele
2 - Messi/CR7
4 - Maradona/DiStefano/Cruijff/Beckenbauer
1 - Peak performance
2 - Longevity and Consistency
3 - Achievements
Based on that, my top 4 is:
1 - Pele
2 - Messi/CR7
4 - Maradona/DiStefano/Cruijff/Beckenbauer
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1. Messie/Cruyff
2. Pele
3. Maradonna
2. Pele
3. Maradonna
cant compare eras then you put someone from this era no1.Also most of the awards didnt exist in the 40s, 50s,60s,70s.
Dont forget if messi was born in the 60s or 70s he wouldnt have made it as a professional footballer. Nothing to do with his talent. The Growth Hormone Disorder (GHD) therapy he had (daily injections) didnt exist back then. But thats an aside.
Very good point about strength of south american football and often overlooked.
Slim margins between…
Pele
Messi
Ronaldo
Maradona
Not that this what was asked, but I have Beckenbauer fifth. Obviously not the goal scorer those four were, but Beckenbauer was astonishing in the range of his game. Without any question, he’s the most complete footballer of all time. But in the end it’s Pele v Messi and it can go either way but Pele shades it.
Pele
Messi
Ronaldo
Maradona
Not that this what was asked, but I have Beckenbauer fifth. Obviously not the goal scorer those four were, but Beckenbauer was astonishing in the range of his game. Without any question, he’s the most complete footballer of all time. But in the end it’s Pele v Messi and it can go either way but Pele shades it.
By the way, if anyone doubts this ranking, consider this:
Messi at age 17: playing in the World Youth Championship
Maradona at age 17: not selected to play in the 1978 World Cup
Ronaldo at age 17: had not yet made his senior debut
Pele at age 17: 6 goals on the biggest stage of all, including arguably the greatest individual goal ever scored in a World Cup final.
Well you have to put someone from this era as number 1 for the reasons I've mentioned. Fair point regarding Messi but if you put Pele or Maradona into todays football they would struggle a lot.
Also most of the awards didnt exist in the 40s, 50s,60s,70s.
Dont forget if messi was born in the 60s or 70s he wouldnt have made it as a professional footballer. Nothing to do with his talent. The Growth Hormone Disorder (GHD) therapy he had (daily injections) didnt exist back then. But thats an aside.
No you don't. It's the level of dominance v your peers.
But Pele and Maradona would also be subject to modern diet, training methods etc, not just their opponents.
Isn't it fair enough to consider Pele the best of his era (even if you have never seen him play) due to the fact that he is viewed as the best footballer of his era by pretty much everyone?
Same as Maradona (who I'm sure was compared to other players as Messi is to Ronaldo nowadays) who is widely regarded as the best player of his era.
When future generations talk about Messi I would hope that they take the vast majority of our feelings about him into account when they are weighing up if their prospect is as good as him.
Same as Maradona (who I'm sure was compared to other players as Messi is to Ronaldo nowadays) who is widely regarded as the best player of his era.
When future generations talk about Messi I would hope that they take the vast majority of our feelings about him into account when they are weighing up if their prospect is as good as him.
True, but much more professional players so much harder to win titles/score goals/assists.