Rank Our Current Reserves / Youth by Potential or Likelihood of Making 1st Team

[DSG]

This is a thread for those of you who follow the reserves and youth teams. I’m always curious as to which of the reserves we may see make the senior squad.

Watching the preseason tour, some of the players I thought we’d see haven’t played, so I’m wondering what the pecking order is in terms of talent and potential to make the top level. For instance, why hasn’t Mejbri and Garner gotten game time so far on the tour? Based on hype and experience, aren’t these two most likely to make the first team squad?

My list, in order of my perception of greatest potential or highest ceiling:

Mejbri
Guarnacho
Shoretire
Iqbal
Savage

Then we have the mini loan army, also in order of potential:

Garner
Diallo
Pellistri
Tuanzebe
Mengi
Chong

Is this accurate, or how would those in the know order them?

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

This is a thread for those of you who follow the reserves and youth teams. I’m always curious as to which of the reserves we may see make the senior squad.

Watching the preseason tour, some of the players I thought we’d see haven’t played, so I’m wondering what the pecking order is in terms of talent and potential to make the top level. For instance, why hasn’t Mejbri and Garner gotten game time so far on the tour? Based on hype and experience, aren’t these two most likely to make the first team squad?

My list, in order of my perception of greatest potential or highest ceiling:

Mejbri
Guarnacho
Shoretire
Iqbal
Savage

Then we have the mini loan army, also in order of potential:

Garner
Diallo
Pellistri
Tuanzebe
Mengi
Chong

Is this accurate, or how would those in the know order them?

No-one knows their potential or ceiling as they are still too young.

Ranking youth players is really difficult because we aren't close enough. Athletes need to develop four critical things to make it:

1. Technical excellence
2. Physical strength
3. Mental resilience and emotional intelligence
4. Tactical awareness and vision

All of these develop at different times for different players. Very few have all four at the same time. Rooney would be an example of someone who did. Only the coaches who see them every day would have a decent or accurate view on this.

Some players develop early and others later. Lot's of players plateau but you never know if that is the final plateau or not.

It's an interesting exercise but you might as well just throw all their names in a hat and see who comes out first.

My experience tells me, apart from a handful of dead certs, all the other players are maybes and you never know who will make it and who won't.

Oh...and luck plays a part too!

 

[Skills]

I think we need to be more ruthless. For each age group - we should think of them as a maximum of 1 who has first team potential, another maximum of 1 who has potential to make it in the squad. Then the rest are just there for us to profit off.

 

[Trequarista10]

This is a thread for those of you who follow the reserves and youth teams. I’m always curious as to which of the reserves we may see make the senior squad.

Watching the preseason tour, some of the players I thought we’d see haven’t played, so I’m wondering what the pecking order is in terms of talent and potential to make the top level. For instance, why hasn’t Mejbri and Garner gotten game time so far on the tour? Based on hype and experience, aren’t these two most likely to make the first team squad?

My list, in order of my perception of greatest potential or highest ceiling:

Mejbri
Guarnacho
Shoretire
Iqbal
Savage

Then we have the mini loan army, also in order of potential:

Garner
Diallo
Pellistri
Tuanzebe
Mengi
Chong

Is this accurate, or how would those in the know order them?

I'd say it's hard to compare the lads who have only played reserves and youth level with those who have spent time playing actual mens football. It's one thing tearing it up against teenagers and looking like a future world beater, it's a different game playing against developed adult players in front of thousands of fans, TV cameras and when results actually matter.

Therefore I'd say:

1. Elanga, Garner, Diallo - have shown some good promise in men's football and ready to be a squad player at United and could push on to be a first team player in the future if they do well

2. Tuanzebe, Williams - have done well on loan in both the Championship and PL, but have not taken chances at United and it may be too late for them to make it here unless a manager thinks they can reinvigorate them, but would likely be solid PL players elsewhere.

3. Chong, Pellistri, Mengi, Levitt, Galbraith, Laird - have done OK on loan but don't particularly look like future United first team players - would be a surprise if they even feature as a squad player for our first team, but not impossible if the manager identifies something in them, or if they have another loan and kick on another level

4. Mejbri, Garnacho, Fernandez, Shoretire, Mainoo, Savage, Iqbal - look great against teenagers, virtually no experience of playing real mens football. Can't possibly predict until they've shown what they can do against adults regularly in competitive matches.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

I think we need to be more ruthless. For each age group - we should think of them as a maximum of 1 who has first team potential, another maximum of 1 who has potential to make it in the squad. Then the rest are just there for us to profit off.

1. How do you know?
2. WHO makes those decisions?
3. We’ve got it right 99% of the time for 80 years…maybe the coaches know what they are doing.
4. let’s just leave them to it.
5. It’s not about profit

FFS

 

[lysglimt]

Mr Mujac is usually spot on with his posts on youngsters. I have followed the youngsters very close over the last 15 years, but not anywhere as close as him but here are my thoughts.

Talent is a huge part - but unless you are as talented as Giggs, Messi, Ronaldo - not as important as you think. There have been so many talented youngsters who have failed for different reasons - lack of effort, poor mentality, injuries, poor coaching, poor off-the-pitch choices - there are hundreds of reasons.

There is almost no such thing as a certain thing - maybe 1 in 100 in youngsters is skilled enough with the ball to be a certain thing - but as Greenwood and Morrison have shown us - what they do off the pitch is just as important as what they do on the pitch.

Or having the right mentality when you are given the chance. Because let's face it - at United you are given a chance if you are good enough. If Iqbal and Savage had played safe passes - taken no risks, and just given the ball to a team-mate without expressing themselves - there is no way they would have been given a chance again in the first-team. But they expressed themselves with the ball - took chances, showed they werent fazed - that might not be enough - but suddenly they look a lot closer to being ready for first-team football. Then you can have the temperament working against you - I have often said that Hannibal is a loose cannon in football matches. Hannibal has the skills to be a first-team regular - but he still can't accept when someone fouls him - and often retaliates or mouths off at the ref. Once he improves that part of his game - he can as far as he wants. But unless he improves it, he wont get many chances simply because he would be likely to be sent off if the match got really really competitive. And the opponents will learn to target him - he has to deal with it.

Mentality in training and off the pitch is extremely important - ask Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher. They will be the first to admit there were 10-20-30 youngsters more talented than them. But they just worked harder - as Gary wrote it in his book - if the coaches asked him and his teammates to run 5 miles - they ran 8. Or never going to a birthday or a party, and always being in bed by 9. Most players can't do that, unless you are Gary Neville or Ronaldo. Effort will always beat talent. And after watching Tom Cleverley at youth level a few times, I am willing to bet his mentality is quite superb as well - because there is no way he was close to being among the most talented in that age-group.

And you need a lot of luck - you need a coach / manager who believes in you at your club or if you go out on loan. And you need to have chances to break into the first-team. James Garner at Watford vs at Nottingham is a good example. Average at one club - brilliant at the other when Forest discovered how to use Garner the best.

 

[Remember the geese]

It's all a bit of a guessing game and practically impossible to predict who will and who will not make it here. Despite some of them being younger, I would put the following above Zidane and Savage in terms of talent, if not current ability for one or two of them just yet.

Hannibal
Garnacho
Mainoo
Shoretire
Hansen-Aarøen
Gore

These are just the midfield options, plus Garnacho. Maxi Oyedele is a decent young player, but perhaps isn't expansive enough in possession to make it here. I haven't seen enough of Toby Collyer, nor the likes of McAllister or anyone under the 18's. In terms of defensive talents, Fernandez is the most talented in my opinion. I would also consider Jurado to be a bit of a dark horse. Again, I would need to see more of Jackson and Ogunneye etc to have a more informed opinion.

Then of course you have the guys who have been out on loan and that becomes even more of a lottery.

 

[Revaulx]

1. How do you know?
2. WHO makes those decisions?
3. We’ve got it right 99% of the time for 80 years…maybe the coaches know what they are doing.
4. let’s just leave them to it.
5. It’s not about profit

FFS

I agree we ought to be more ruthless, but the criteria the poster you responded to suggested seem ridiculously restrictive.

We have tended to hang onto youth products for too long (and overpay them) in recent years. While this hasn’t hurt United particularly, it may well have unnecessarily frustrated the careers of a few players.

Also, United is a business so it’s always about profit to an extent. If I were a Glazer and saw the academy doing a good job both providing an entry to the first team squad and providing good careers as well as generating fees for the won’t-make-it-heres, I’d be more inclined to invest in it.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Garner should be in the top level of anyone’s predictions.

He’s the only one with any kind of decent level of experience and success.

I’d argue he’s our best youngster

 

[youmeletsfly]

This is a thread for those of you who follow the reserves and youth teams. I’m always curious as to which of the reserves we may see make the senior squad.

Watching the preseason tour, some of the players I thought we’d see haven’t played, so I’m wondering what the pecking order is in terms of talent and potential to make the top level. For instance, why hasn’t Mejbri and Garner gotten game time so far on the tour? Based on hype and experience, aren’t these two most likely to make the first team squad?

My list, in order of my perception of greatest potential or highest ceiling:

Mejbri
Guarnacho
Shoretire
Iqbal
Savage

Then we have the mini loan army, also in order of potential:

Garner
Diallo
Pellistri
Tuanzebe
Mengi
Chong

Is this accurate, or how would those in the know order them?

Chances to make it into the 1st team and be a regular: (the higher, the better)
Mejbri - 6
Guarnacho 6
Shoretire- 0
Iqbal - 7
Savage - 6
Garner - 8
Diallo - 0
Pellistri -0
Tuanzebe - 0
Mengi - 0
Chong - -1 billion

 

[DSG]

Mr Mujac is usually spot on with his posts on youngsters. I have followed the youngsters very close over the last 15 years, but not anywhere as close as him but here are my thoughts.

Talent is a huge part - but unless you are as talented as Giggs, Messi, Ronaldo - not as important as you think. There have been so many talented youngsters who have failed for different reasons - lack of effort, poor mentality, injuries, poor coaching, poor off-the-pitch choices - there are hundreds of reasons.

There is almost no such thing as a certain thing - maybe 1 in 100 in youngsters is skilled enough with the ball to be a certain thing - but as Greenwood and Morrison have shown us - what they do off the pitch is just as important as what they do on the pitch.

Or having the right mentality when you are given the chance. Because let's face it - at United you are given a chance if you are good enough. If Iqbal and Savage had played safe passes - taken no risks, and just given the ball to a team-mate without expressing themselves - there is no way they would have been given a chance again in the first-team. But they expressed themselves with the ball - took chances, showed they werent fazed - that might not be enough - but suddenly they look a lot closer to being ready for first-team football. Then you can have the temperament working against you - I have often said that Hannibal is a loose cannon in football matches. Hannibal has the skills to be a first-team regular - but he still can't accept when someone fouls him - and often retaliates or mouths off at the ref. Once he improves that part of his game - he can as far as he wants. But unless he improves it, he wont get many chances simply because he would be likely to be sent off if the match got really really competitive. And the opponents will learn to target him - he has to deal with it.

Mentality in training and off the pitch is extremely important - ask Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher. They will be the first to admit there were 10-20-30 youngsters more talented than them. But they just worked harder - as Gary wrote it in his book - if the coaches asked him and his teammates to run 5 miles - they ran 8. Or never going to a birthday or a party, and always being in bed by 9. Most players can't do that, unless you are Gary Neville or Ronaldo. Effort will always beat talent. And after watching Tom Cleverley at youth level a few times, I am willing to bet his mentality is quite superb as well - because there is no way he was close to being among the most talented in that age-group.

And you need a lot of luck - you need a coach / manager who believes in you at your club or if you go out on loan. And you need to have chances to break into the first-team. James Garner at Watford vs at Nottingham is a good example. Average at one club - brilliant at the other when Forest discovered how to use Garner the best.

It seems unfair to evaluate a 16 or 17 year old, and I get why those of you who follow the youth teams are reluctant to give an assessment.

In my experience with youth football, the standouts are very easy to spot. I’m not talking about the flashy forwards, I’m talking about those who are clearly way above others in technical attributes, positioning, tactical awareness and maturity. That being said, there is definitely a place for the Scott McTominay, a player who maybe doesn’t stand out early, but because they grew later on, the combination of smart play and newly acquired elite physical attributes allow them to make the step up to the first team. How many academy graduates in the last 10 years have made 20 appearances for the first team? 50? 100?

In no particular order, using the baseline of 20 appearances, we have:

Tuanzebe
Williams
Greenwood
Rashford
McTominay
Elanga
Henderson
Lingard
Cleverley
Welbeck

Did I miss any? That’s roughly one per season going back 10 years. Out of that group, we’ve got one bonafide star, four solid internationals, and three fringe internationals. And one tragedy.

I do think that this crop of youth players has more potential than other generations with Garner, Mejbri, Elanga, Guarnacho and some would say Diallo, though I would not. If we could get 3 or 4 that can rise to the level of CL club squad regular, that would be quite an accomplishment.

 

[DSG]

Chances to make it into the 1st team and be a regular: (the higher, the better)
Mejbri - 6
Guarnacho 6
Shoretire- 0
Iqbal - 7
Savage - 6
Garner - 8
Diallo - 0
Pellistri -0
Tuanzebe - 0
Mengi - 0
Chong - -1 billion

It’s mystifying as to why Garner hasn’t made an appearance on the preseason tour. Funny, in terms of accomplished performances, Axel Tuanzebe had an incredible match vs PSG where he consistently shut down Mbappe and we went through. That alone should at least give him a shot. The fact we paid 20m for Diallo and 7m for Pellistri is disturbing.

 

[youmeletsfly]

It’s mystifying as to why Garner hasn’t made an appearance on the preseason tour. Funny, in terms of accomplished performances, Axel Tuanzebe had an incredible match vs PSG where he consistently shut down Mbappe and we went through. That alone should at least give him a shot. The fact we paid 20m for Diallo and 7m for Pellistri is disturbing.

Garner got a slight injury in the 1st session of the tour, no worries about that.

Tuanzebe indeed had a great match against PSG, but in all of his other outings he made quite a few mistakes. I still don't think he makes it here, to be honest.

 

[RedRonaldo]

A. Ready for some first team action:
- Iqbal (I think he has the biggest chance to make it under ETH, as he looks very much like ETH type of player)
- Garner (I think he is ready for PL, but whether he suit to play under ETH remain to be seen)
- Meijbri (our most talented youngster, but not sure how discipline he would be under ETH system)
- Garnacho (he is clearly very talented for his age, I heard some top European clubs are monitoring the situation should his contract expired in like 3 years time, we better give him some chance to avoid any potential Pogba situation)

B. Not quite ready here yet, would benefit for some loan action:
- Savage
- Diallo (looks talented but too small/weak for this league, I've heard he is working on it, but he really need to grow stronger to have any chance to make it in this league)
- Pellistri

C. Don't think they will ever make it here:
- Tuanzebe
- Chong

Future potential (may go either A, B or C in future):
- Mainoo
- Shoretire
- Hansen-Aarøen (he is my favourite out of this group, his playing style reminds me of Scholes, but still at youth level so its hard to tell)
- Gore
- Mengi

 

[DSG]

Garner got a slight injury in the 1st session of the tour, no worries about that.

Tuanzebe indeed had a great match against PSG, but in all of his other outings he made quite a few mistakes. I still don't think he makes it here, to be honest.

That’s a relief about Garner. For Tuanzebe, he has all of the physical tools. He made some awful errors in a few matches which soured Ole on his potential. You know who else made errors, more than Tuanzebe? DeGea, Fred, Bailly, Maguire, Dalot, Telles, Pogba…. Frankly, I’d rather keep Tuanzebe and play him in Carabao and Europa matches, sell off Jones (impossible) and Bailly (10m-15m?). Tbf, Bailly has looked good in preseason.

 

[pocco]

Right now...

Savage
Garnacho
Iqbal
Hannibal


Based purely on the fact that I think Hannibal might have an attitude problem and that ETH isn't even giving him or Garnacho a sniff. Still think Hannibal and Garnacho are probably the more talented maybe. Laird also has a shot at being or backup RB this season. Thought he was decent the other day and needs to take his chances this pre season.

 

[youmeletsfly]

That’s a relief about Garner. For Tuanzebe, he has all of the physical tools. He made some awful errors in a few matches which soured Ole on his potential. You know who else made errors, more than Tuanzebe? DeGea, Fred, Bailly, Maguire, Dalot, Telles, Pogba…. Frankly, I’d rather keep Tuanzebe and play him in Carabao and Europa matches, sell off Jones (impossible) and Bailly (10m-15m?). Tbf, Bailly has looked good in preseason.

Yeah, you're right. It's a bit odd to judge him based on Ole's setup. Maybe in ETH's setup he's a different player.
Guess we'll see this season if he makes it or not.

 

[DSG]

No-one knows their potential or ceiling as they are still too young.

Ranking youth players is really difficult because we aren't close enough. Athletes need to develop four critical things to make it:

1. Technical excellence
2. Physical strength
3. Mental resilience and emotional intelligence
4. Tactical awareness and vision

All of these develop at different times for different players. Very few have all four at the same time. Rooney would be an example of someone who did. Only the coaches who see them every day would have a decent or accurate view on this.

Some players develop early and others later. Lot's of players plateau but you never know if that is the final plateau or not.

It's an interesting exercise but you might as well just throw all their names in a hat and see who comes out first.

My experience tells me, apart from a handful of dead certs, all the other players are maybes and you never know who will make it and who won't.

Oh...and luck plays a part too!

I think those categories are generally correct. I would add hard working to that list unless you include that under #3.

I would argue that being world class in one area and merely average in others as a youth would propel you into the first 11. The obvious case is Messi who was so good technically as a 17 year old, the other things didn’t matter.

Then you have a player like James Milner who is just world class in mentality and average to above average in the other categories…

I guess the question is, are there any dead certs in this crop? I feel like your answer is no…

 

[Cee90]

Pellistri is really underrated on here.

With a good run of games I think he could be the best of the bunch, or not far off Hannibal and Garnacho who I also rate very highly.

 

[SalfordRed18]

I think we need to be more ruthless. For each age group - we should think of them as a maximum of 1 who has first team potential, another maximum of 1 who has potential to make it in the squad. Then the rest are just there for us to profit off.

That's just dumb

 

[DSG]

I agree we ought to be more ruthless, but the criteria the poster you responded to suggested seem ridiculously restrictive.

We have tended to hang onto youth products for too long (and overpay them) in recent years. While this hasn’t hurt United particularly, it may well have unnecessarily frustrated the careers of a few players.

Also, United is a business so it’s always about profit to an extent. If I were a Glazer and saw the academy doing a good job both providing an entry to the first team squad and providing good careers as well as generating fees for the won’t-make-it-heres, I’d be more inclined to invest in it.

The well -run clubs have the right mentality in how to run the academy and youth/reserve teams.

It’s very difficult to evaluate young prospects, so the best way to build your youth teams is a large volume of players. Youth players are inexpensive / free, so you should be looking to add as many of the cream as possible, then loaning out once they become an asset, or keeping if you come across a Phil Foden, Mason Mount or Greenwood.

 

[DSG]

Pellistri is really underrated on here.

With a good run of games I think he could be the best of the bunch, or not far off Hannibal and Garnacho who I also rate very highly.

35 appearances in La Liga without a single goal. Granted, he’s the only one who has gotten significant time in a top league.

 

[pacifictheme]

I'd say it's hard to compare the lads who have only played reserves and youth level with those who have spent time playing actual mens football. It's one thing tearing it up against teenagers and looking like a future world beater, it's a different game playing against developed adult players in front of thousands of fans, TV cameras and when results actually matter.

Therefore I'd say:

1. Elanga, Garner, Diallo - have shown some good promise in men's football and ready to be a squad player at United and could push on to be a first team player in the future if they do well

2. Tuanzebe, Williams - have done well on loan in both the Championship and PL, but have not taken chances at United and it may be too late for them to make it here unless a manager thinks they can reinvigorate them, but would likely be solid PL players elsewhere.

3. Chong, Pellistri, Mengi, Levitt, Galbraith, Laird - have done OK on loan but don't particularly look like future United first team players - would be a surprise if they even feature as a squad player for our first team, but not impossible if the manager identifies something in them, or if they have another loan and kick on another level

4. Mejbri, Garnacho, Fernandez, Shoretire, Mainoo, Savage, Iqbal - look great against teenagers, virtually no experience of playing real mens football. Can't possibly predict until they've shown what they can do against adults regularly in competitive matches.

Diallo was generally abysmal for rangers. Nowhere near ready for the first team squad.

 

[Edwards6]

Really thought Mejbri would be getting games this season but the way Iqbal is playing on tour wouldn't surprise me if he steps up and Mejbri goes on loan.
Also think Garner, Laird and Garnacho can force there way into the team

 

[Woziak]

We won the Fa Youth cup this year in all honesty if we got 4 or 5 from that list, that would be success. I can only see Fernandez, Garnaucho, Garner, Savage and IQbal making the squad in the next 2 to 3 years, Pellistri could be a dark horse.

Antony Elanga is hugely overrated as is Amad Dialo. Due to the players leaving this year, some will get a better chance than normal and they have to Grab that opportunity but even if 2 or 3 make it, that’s still a success for the club

 

[Beaucoup]

Ten Hag has made it clear he doesn’t want older players in the 21s, so expect plenty of loans

 

[DSG]

Diallo was generally abysmal for rangers. Nowhere near ready for the first team squad.

From what I have seen of Diallo playing for us, I would agree. However, watching his Rangers performances highlights on YouTube, he looks pretty good.

3 goals in 10 league appearances, but it was only 347 minutes. That’s 0.78 goals per 90. There was a tap in I think, but in a very physical league, he didn’t look terrible.

I don’t follow Rangers, but at first glance, they are playing Ryan Kent ahead of Diallo, who is 24, and Morelos…. These are grown men.

 

[DSG]

We won the Fa Youth cup this year in all honesty if we got 4 or 5 from that list, that would be success. I can only see Fernandez, Garnaucho, Garner, Savage and IQbal making the squad in the next 2 to 3 years, Pellistri could be a dark horse.

Antony Elanga is hugely overrated as is Amad Dialo. Due to the players leaving this year, some will get a better chance than normal and they have to Grab that opportunity but even if 2 or 3 make it, that’s still a success for the club

I don’t get the Elanga hate (not that you hate him). His absolute ceiling is a mid table PL winger / forward who gives 100% effort and bags 5-10 goals per year. Is he a top United player? No, probably not. But he’s already more accomplished than Pellistri, Diallo, and all of the other attackers in this generation of United youth. He’s basically the same age as those two and already has 20+ appearances for us.

Reminds me of a Danny Welbeck type.

 

[Woziak]

I don’t get the Elanga hate (not that you hate him). His absolute ceiling is a mid table PL winger / forward who gives 100% effort and bags 5-10 goals per year. Is he a top United player? No, probably not. But he’s already more accomplished than Pellistri, Diallo, and all of the other attackers in this generation of United youth. He’s basically the same age as those two and already has 20+ appearances for us.

Reminds me of a Danny Welbeck type.

I don’t hate him I just don’t think he’s all that and Danny wellbeck was hugely underrated as his England record shows, Wellbeck was 6’2 and a beast who could play as a 9 or an inverted striker, Elanga can’t play with his back to goal, I love the kids attitude I do but he’s just never going to be truly elite, just an opinion that I would dearly love him to prove me wrong.

 

[Trequarista10]

Diallo was generally abysmal for rangers. Nowhere near ready for the first team squad.

He was generally unused but did well when he played. He also looked ready in some games he played under Ole.

 

[pacifictheme]

He was generally unused but did well when he played. He also looked ready in some games he played under Ole.

He was unused because on his second or third game he was woeful and didn't get a proper look in for a while after.

 

[Trequarista10]

He was unused because on his second or third game he was woeful and didn't get a proper look in for a while after.

Correct, he (and the whole team) were poor against Celtic, and the on loan United player was the scapegoat.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

This is a thread for those of you who follow the reserves and youth teams. I’m always curious as to which of the reserves we may see make the senior squad.

Watching the preseason tour, some of the players I thought we’d see haven’t played, so I’m wondering what the pecking order is in terms of talent and potential to make the top level. For instance, why hasn’t Mejbri and Garner gotten game time so far on the tour? Based on hype and experience, aren’t these two most likely to make the first team squad?

My list, in order of my perception of greatest potential or highest ceiling:

Mejbri
Guarnacho
Shoretire
Iqbal
Savage

Then we have the mini loan army, also in order of potential:

Garner
Diallo
Pellistri
Tuanzebe
Mengi
Chong

Is this accurate, or how would those in the know order them?

I bet Savage would have been nowhere near the top of your list before he played against Melbourne

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

I agree we ought to be more ruthless, but the criteria the poster you responded to suggested seem ridiculously restrictive.

We have tended to hang onto youth products for too long (and overpay them) in recent years. While this hasn’t hurt United particularly, it may well have unnecessarily frustrated the careers of a few players.

Also, United is a business so it’s always about profit to an extent. If I were a Glazer and saw the academy doing a good job both providing an entry to the first team squad and providing good careers as well as generating fees for the won’t-make-it-heres, I’d be more inclined to invest in it.

Firstly it depends on your definition of being ruthless. There have been occasions over the years when we have been short of players for one reason or another, so just letting them go doesn't always make sense. There have been many occasions when I've looked at youth players and thought....'why are they here'? But then you are never going to have 15 star players in the same group. It just doesn't happen. To get 3-4 in the same year is a sign of excellence. But those 3-4 have to play alongside others. So fans can be overly critical expecting every player to be world class rather than looking at the big picture. United are better at this than virtually anyone else. Apart from the odd exception, we manage this ok.

In addition, we don't see the potential that the coaches do. The average fan would have sold Lingard, McTominay, Fletcher and many others before they showed how they could contribute to the benefit of the team.

Secondly, I don't know any players whose United career has suffered ('frustrated') because their pathway was held up in any way. If you're good enough you force your way in the team. Every club could be could be regarded as 'holding on too long' but I don't see that as a negative. In fact, we have had plenty of first team players bought in who have been given many more opportunities than youth players who have not necessarily been any better. Buttner, Bebe, Dong, Diouf, Darmian, Miller, Obertan, Bellion, Powell...I could go on. They have been paid a lot more in wages and contributed less. As a rule, youth players are paid a lot less than those transferred in. I can't think of one player who has gone on to have an amazing career after leaving United because they were frustrated.

But the nature of football (and most sports) is to give players a chance...which is a good thing considering the variables.

I agree with your last point, even if United have never really been focused on making the Academy a profit centre which other clubs might tend to do. Our primary objective is to get players into the first team and provide a career for others. Making money has always been a by product.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

I think those categories are generally correct. I would add hard working to that list unless you include that under #3.

I would argue that being world class in one area and merely average in others as a youth would propel you into the first 11. The obvious case is Messi who was so good technically as a 17 year old, the other things didn’t matter.

Then you have a player like James Milner who is just world class in mentality and average to above average in the other categories…

I guess the question is, are there any dead certs in this crop? I feel like your answer is no…

I don't see any dead certs in anyone in the Academy right now.

But that's not to say a handful of players won't go to have fantastic careers at United and another 15-20 will make a good living playing football.

Like I said in a previous post...I have only seen five 'dead certs' in all my time watching United's youth teams. One of those didn't progress (Morrison) whilst others have proved me wrong or at least taken their chances and dispelled any doubts I might have had.

In terms of assessing youth players potential, I have been wrong many more times than I have been right so stopped making predictions years ago. The coaches tend to get it right most of the time.

So all this talk of Savage, Iqbal, Mejbri and others suddenly setting the world on fire in our first team is incredibly premature (based on two halves of football in friendly games) and I don't think it does the players any good hyping them up either.

But that's the nature of football fans and we all think we are experts.

It's great that we are able to support, encourage and give them a chance.

 

[In Rainbows]

He was unused because on his second or third game he was woeful and didn't get a proper look in for a while after.

He had a bad 45 minutes in a derby, and that lost him trust with the manager. He was good the match before that. I would hardly classify that as him being woeful.

When you're a young loanee (really any youngster, but in particular a loanee), first impressions are everything. The manager made him a scapegoat for the derby loss.

 

[AltiUn]

Chances to make it into the 1st team and be a regular: (the higher, the better)
Mejbri - 6
Guarnacho 6
Shoretire- 0
Iqbal - 7
Savage - 6
Garner - 8
Diallo - 0
Pellistri -0
Tuanzebe - 0
Mengi - 0
Chong - -1 billion

Pretty incredible what 2 good pre-season games can do for your reputation. Before the tour you'd have been struggling to find anyone giving Savage a 1/10 chance of making it at United let alone a 6/10 chance.

Also why has anyone got Tuanzebe on their list? He's 24

 

[SmashedHombre]

Pretty incredible what 2 good pre-season games can do for your reputation. Before the tour you'd have been struggling to find anyone giving Savage a 1/10 chance of making it at United let alone a 6/10 chance.

Also why has anyone got Tuanzebe on their list? He's 24

Iqbal's stock has also risen considerably during the last 90 minutes of football. I like Savage a lot, I think he was solid and consistent all of last season and he's improved massively in the last 18 months — but I'd be incredibly surprised if he makes it here. 6/10 is incredibly generous and 7/10 for Iqbal even more so. Even 8/10 for Garner, who is better than both Iqbal and Savage right now, seems optimistic. It implies he's almost a dead cert, which he isn't (nobody is) despite his successful loan and obvious talent.

 

[bosnian_red]

Savage has done alright but let's not get carried away here, long way off from making it at United.

Zidane Iqbal so far to me has shown the most in a United shirt out of Garner/Savage/Laird/Hannibal/amad or whoever else from the youngsters. The most similarity to what Ten Hag would want long term. We'll see how he develops, I think a loan would generally be good for all of them to get regular game time. Once you hit 19 or so, if you can't be a part of the main squad, then go on loan. Just wasting time otherwise.

 

[DSG]

I don't see any dead certs in anyone in the Academy right now.

But that's not to say a handful of players won't go to have fantastic careers at United and another 15-20 will make a good living playing football.

Like I said in a previous post...I have only seen five 'dead certs' in all my time watching United's youth teams. One of those didn't progress (Morrison) whilst others have proved me wrong or at least taken their chances and dispelled any doubts I might have had.

In terms of assessing youth players potential, I have been wrong many more times than I have been right so stopped making predictions years ago. The coaches tend to get it right most of the time.

So all this talk of Savage, Iqbal, Mejbri and others suddenly setting the world on fire in our first team is incredibly premature (based on two halves of football in friendly games) and I don't think it does the players any good hyping them up either.

But that's the nature of football fans and we all think we are experts.

It's great that we are able to support, encourage and give them a chance.

Why do I feel like SAF leaned on the youth more than our managers since then? Is that accurate? Did he promote more often from within — other than Fergie’s Fledgling s of course.

off the top of my head, O’Shea, Brown, Richardson, Fletcher, Evans, Giggs, Scholes, Nevilles, Butt, Beckham, Cleverley, Welbeck, Gibson, etc.