[stevoc]

Weirdly long post. I just think he was abysmal until his return - whether he was unfit or there was something behind the scenes we don’t know -

In which games?

As I said he played about 18 minutes in 3 months in the league.

but I feel you’re just going off his name versus how he actually played.

No I'm not listen mate nowhere did I say he was good or that he wasn't poor in the first few games of the season. But he was just frozen out completely after returning from injury and barely given an opportunity. Dalot, Lindelof, Maguire, Evans, basically all our defenders this season have had shockers and stretches of games where they've been poor. Yet none of them got frozen out, so a poor run of games at the start of the season were almost certainly not the reason for him sitting on the bench for 3 months.

Weirdly long post

It was 3 sentences mate.

 

[stevoc]

Yes it’s true, we’ve been very bad defensively in the cups as well as we have managed to score a lot of goals. Opposite of the league.

Anyway I totally agree with your main point. I thought he played badly and fair enough he had to hit the bench, and then we got good results with the other CBs. But this was something beyond that. He was totally out in the cold. That could not be performance based.
Should be said however that there were talks about a back injury that was never really confirmed but it made him miss I think it was Chelsea. He also missed Brentford because of a smaller injury. Those small injuries are rarely picked up in stats like the those on transfer market. But of course it could also be fake injuries to avoid talk in the press.

There's been way too much chatter about Ten Hag falling out with him for there to not be any truth in it.

I'd accept him losing his place, but barely playing for 3 months and having him sit on the bench while Evans and a left back who's just returned from injury playing at CB makes zero sense.

 

[tomaldinho1]

In which games?

As I said he played about 18 minutes in 3 months in the league.



No I'm not listen mate nowhere did I say he was good or that he wasn't poor in the first few games of the season. But he was just frozen out completely after returning from injury and barely given an opportunity. Dalot, Lindelof, Maguire, Evans, basically all our defenders this season have had shockers and stretches of games where they've been poor. Yet none of them got frozen out, so a poor run of games at the start of the season were almost certainly not the reason for him sitting on the bench for 3 months.



It was 3 sentences mate.

I'm not sure if you write this stuff and simply don't expect anyone to check or think people have goldfish memories? He's played a lot more mins than that in the league - just go transfermarkt and look, it takes 2 secs - and you conveniently left out the CL where he's been terrible.

Maguire has been very good this year - he has not been frozen out - he was benched last year because of the form of Varane - Licha. Evans has been a squad player but he's genuinely been excellent for the most part. Dalot has been dropped but he's a different position so not sure why relevant, he's competing with AWB. Lindelof is not a good player but Varane has been crocked so you either start someone who was good but probably will get injured, or someone who is average but very reliable. That's not even going into the rumours he reacted poorly to being dropped and also that he's had another injury.

Again, not sure if you write this stuff and just think someone won't check...if you mean 3 paragraphs, that would make sense, if you still think it's only three sentences, return to education.

 

[Rossa]

His recent performances raise serious questions about Ten Hag's decision to have him sitting on the bench for 2 months when we've been conceding all sorts of goals. 1 goal conceded vs Bayern and Liverpool with him back in the side.

His performances also make a complete farce of the idea that he's been left out because he can't play on the left.

Didn't he play on the left for RM when pairing up with Ramos? The notion of left footed centre backs is really a hyped up thing - Vidic, VVD, Terry all did pretty well in that role.

Funnily, Evans who was preferred to Varane as a LCB because of ball playing skills, played RCB with Varane as LCB. Go figure.

 

[stevoc]

I'm not sure if you write this stuff and simply don't expect anyone to check or think people have goldfish memories? He's played a lot more mins than that in the league - just go transfermarkt and look, it takes 2 secs - and you conveniently left out the CL where he's been terrible.

I do expect people to check but doesn't seem like you did.

As I said he played about 18 minutes in 3 months in the league.

Between the start vs Palace in the 30th of September and the start vs Liverpool on Sunday which was the 17th of December, he played 6 minutes vs Sheffield, 1 minutes aginst Fulham and 11 vs Luton. So as I said 18 minutes in the league in 3 months.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/raphael-varane/leistungsdaten/spieler/164770

Outside of that he started 2 games in the CL and came on for Evans away to Copenhagen. We kept a clean sheet in one and the whole team includng Varane was shocking defensively in the other two.

Again, not sure if you write this stuff and just think someone won't check...if you mean 3 paragraphs, that would make sense, if you still think it's only three sentences, return to education.

Right you are Sir, it was indeed 3 paragraphs. Silly me I feel so embarrassed, thankfully this place is full of helpful fellows like yourself who can help by pointing out such egregious errors. We should go back to education together and you could polish up on your comprehension at the same time.

And sorry mate don't have time to reply to your other paragraph. Your post was just too weirdly long.

 

[stevoc]

Didn't he play on the left for RM when pairing up with Ramos? The notion of left footed centre backs is really a hyped up thing - Vidic, VVD, Terry all did pretty well in that role.

Funnily, Evans who was preferred to Varane as a LCB because of ball playing skills, played RCB with Varane as LCB. Go figure.

Yep for many years and it is indeed strange that ETH is lining up with Varane left and Evans right when he's only ever used both players on the oppsoite side before last week I believe.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I do expect people to check but doesn't seem like you did.



Between the start vs Palace in the 30th of September and the start vs Liverpool on Sunday which was the 17th of December, he played 6 minutes vs Sheffield, 1 minutes aginst Fulham and 11 vs Luton. So as I said 18 minutes in the league in 3 months.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/raphael-varane/leistungsdaten/spieler/164770

Outside of that he started 2 games in the CL and came on for Evans away to Copenhagen. We kept a clean sheet in one and the whole team includng Varane was shocking defensively in the other two.



Right you are Sir, it was indeed 3 paragraphs. Silly me I feel so embarrassed, thankfully this place is full of helpful fellows like yourself who can help by pointing out such egregious errors. We should go back to education together and you could polish up on your comprehension at the same time.

And sorry mate don't have time to reply to your other paragraph. Your post was just too weirdly long.

You're now just selecting timelines - we look at this season, no picking and choosing when or which comps. Every player gets same treatment.
At least you admitted you were wrong on the sentence point I guess, progress at least.

 

[A-man]

I do expect people to check but doesn't seem like you did.



Between the start vs Palace in the 30th of September and the start vs Liverpool on Sunday which was the 17th of December, he played 6 minutes vs Sheffield, 1 minutes aginst Fulham and 11 vs Luton. So as I said 18 minutes in the league in 3 months.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/raphael-varane/leistungsdaten/spieler/164770

Outside of that he started 2 games in the CL and came on for Evans away to Copenhagen. We kept a clean sheet in one and the whole team includng Varane was shocking defensively in the other two.



Right you are Sir, it was indeed 3 paragraphs. Silly me I feel so embarrassed, thankfully this place is full of helpful fellows like yourself who can help by pointing out such egregious errors. We should go back to education together and you could polish up on your comprehension at the same time.

And sorry mate don't have time to reply to your other paragraph. Your post was just too weirdly long.

While I agree there was something more than his poor performance to it, I think you exaggerate a little.

He was not “marginalised” for 3 months. He wasn’t in the squad against Brentford due to an injury, then there was a 2 weeks break in the PL. In the next game he got some minutes as a sub against Sheffield United on the 21st of October and then played the full match against Copenhagen a few days later. Cannot blame the manager for not playing him 2 matches in a row with 2 recovery days in between, considering he was just injured.

I feel the period where he might have been “marginalised” was from the City game 29 Oct until Bayern 12 Dec. That is about 6 weeks ( where he still played one important CL game plus was out for injury).

ETH has made himself known as a coach who likes to make statements to the players and even to punish players. Maybe this is what happened. A senior player with great experience and one of the best defenders of his generation. Maybe that player felt he deserved to have opinions. Or it is true that he was pissed of for not being selected for the City game. Now I’m just speculating of course. I can also guess the whole Sancho treatment has brought some tensions between players and coach.

 

[stevoc]

You're now just selecting timelines - we look at this season, no picking and choosing when or which comps. Every player gets same treatment.

No. I'd been clear and consistent with the time frame I was referring to from the start. I'm not selecting timelines, I'm simply referring to the period of time in which Varane barely started any games.

Have all of Maguire, Lindelof, Evans and Shaw at CB been so outstanding in their performances that Varane didn't deserve any sort of a decent run out at RCB or LCB for 3 months? Was Varane so poor over a few games early in the season that he didn't deserve the odd start here and there to see if his form had returned?

None of them got froze out for 3 months, they kept getting regular opportunities.

The mental gymnastics being employed here to explain Varanes absense from the team for 3 months is something else.

As I said he played about 18 minutes in 3 months in the league.

That post isn't edited, you replied to it thinking you were being clever, yet obviously didn't actually read it properly. Then proceeded to act the pedant and claim I was incorrect and/or making false claims. I was neither wrong or being misleading.

At least you admitted you were wrong on the sentence point I guess, progress at least.

And you were wrong on this one, so let's see if you are big enough to admit it also.

 

[stevoc]

While I agree there was something more than his poor performance to it, I think you exaggerate a little.

He was not “marginalised” for 3 months. He wasn’t in the squad against Brentford due to an injury, then there was a 2 weeks break in the PL. In the next game he got some minutes as a sub against Sheffield United on the 21st of October and then played the full match against Copenhagen a few days later. Cannot blame the manager for not playing him 2 matches in a row with 2 recovery days in between, considering he was just injured.

I feel the period where he might have been “marginalised” was from the City game 29 Oct until Bayern 12 Dec. That is about 6 weeks ( where he still played one important CL game plus was out for injury).

ETH has made himself known as a coach who likes to make statements to the players and even to punish players. Maybe this is what happened. A senior player with great experience and one of the best defenders of his generation. Maybe that player felt he deserved to have opinions. Or it is true that he was pissed of for not being selected for the City game. Now I’m just speculating of course. I can also guess the whole Sancho treatment has brought some tensions between players and coach.

Well perhaps but what was it 2 starts from the end of September until late December? Ok he wasn't completely frozen out but he certainly wasn't getting as much opportunities than every other fit defender in the squad.

 

[tomaldinho1]

No. I'd been clear and consistent with the time frame I was referring to from the start. I'm not selecting timelines, I'm simply referring to the period of time in which Varane barely started any games.

That post isn't edited, you replied to it thinking you were being clever, yet obviously didn't actually read it properly. Then proceeded to act the pedant and claim I was incorrect and/or making false claims. I was neither wrong or being misleading.

And you were wrong on this one, so let's see if you are big enough to admit it also.

You wrote this:

Have all of Maguire, Lindelof, Evans and Shaw at CB been so outstanding in their performances that Varane didn't deserve any sort of a decent run out at RCB or LCB for 3 months? Was Varane so poor over a few games early in the season that he didn't deserve the odd start here and there to see if his form had returned?

So surely you see why I pointed out the games he was poor in at the start of the season? Otherwise your statement makes zero sense - if Varane has played only a minute here and there how could he have played poorly, when he's not even played? You are also willfully just ignoring the CL games for some unknown reason. We have a decent body of evidence to judge him this season and he's been well below expectations.

However if you want to stick to your strict 3 month exact timeline - you are still wrong - again do not think people check? Last 3 months Varane has played 114 mins PL, 334 mins CL, 61mins Cup = 509 mins.

But yeah, only played 18 mins in the league and hasn't had a chance right?

 

[stevoc]

You wrote this:

Have all of Maguire, Lindelof, Evans and Shaw at CB been so outstanding in their performances that Varane didn't deserve any sort of a decent run out at RCB or LCB for 3 months? Was Varane so poor over a few games early in the season that he didn't deserve the odd start here and there to see if his form had returned?

Yeah and he didn't start one game in the league for 3 months. Which was obviously my point, I fecking wrote it often enough.

Or are you also being a pedant on exact dates as it wasn't exactly 3 months?

In that case sorry, he only played 18 minutes in the league in 2 months and 17 days. Or 11 weeks and 2 days or 79 days. Or 1896 hours or113,760 minutes or 6,825,600 seconds. Get your calculator out and check those numbers mate.

So surely you see why I pointed out the games he was poor in at the start of the season? Otherwise your statement makes zero sense - if Varane has played only a minute here and there how could he have played poorly, when he's not even played? You are also willfully just ignoring the CL games for some unknown reason. We have a decent body of evidence to judge him this season and he's been well below expectations.

However if you want to stick to your strict 3 month exact timeline - you are still wrong - again do not think people check? Last 3 months Varane has played 114 mins PL, 334 mins CL, 61mins Cup = 509 mins.

But yeah, only played 18 mins in the league and hasn't had a chance right?

114 minutes in the PL I assume you are including the 90 odd minutes last Sunday?

Yes just double down mate. I expected as much.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yeah and he didn't start one game in the league for 3 months. Which was obviously my point, I fecking wrote it often enough.

Or are you also being a pedant on exact dates as it wasn't exactly 3 months?

In that case sorry, he only played 18 minutes in the league in 2 months and 17 days. Or 11 weeks and 2 days or 79 days. Or 1896 hours or113,760 minutes or 6,825,600 seconds. Get your calculator out and check those numbers mate.




114 minutes in the PL I assume you are including the 90 odd minutes last Sunday?

Yes just double down mate. I expected as much.

Yes, you made a big deal of the 3 month point so I went and checked and you were way off. Seems to be a common theme in your posts.
Yes, just going off transfermarkt totals form the date YOU specified. It's useful to actually use a source when you make these statements. Getting a bit awkward for you now so I guess not surprising you're just being rude.

 

[stevoc]

Yes, you made a big deal of the 3 month point so I went and checked and you were way off. Seems to be a common theme in your posts.
Yes, just going off transfermarkt totals form the date YOU specified. It's useful to actually use a source when you make these statements.

Did you check those last numbers yet?

Getting a bit awkward for you now so I guess not surprising you're just being rude.

Have a lovely Christmas mate, you seem like a real fun guy.

 

[stevoc]

And of course the biggest irony here is if we wanted to get really pedantic and specific then over the last 3 months (20/09/23 - 20/12/23) he hasn't played either 18 minutes or 114 minutes in the PL. He's actually played 206 minutes.

But it's Christmas.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Did you check those last numbers yet?



Have a lovely Christmas mate, you seem like a real fun guy.

Stevoc's classic response when proved wrong, divert from being wrong, then be rude. Like clockwork.

 

[RedorDead21]

A class act for me. Shame with injuries but seems to act professionally, says nothing publicly, still does the business and isn’t petty when called apon. The kind of personality we need more of. Experienced in all the ways you would want. People seem keen to offload based primarily on recouping some cash which baffles me. He can’t be in the top 5 of players we need out of the club!

 

[stevoc]

Stevoc's classic response when proved wrong, divert from being wrong, then be rude. Like clockwork.

Have we ever had a conversation before?

And only wrong in the timeframe your head mate. As I said he didn't play 114 minutes either, we're both wrong if we want to get really pedantic.

And I wished you a merry Christmas that was genuine, hardly rude.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not in the squad today. Presumably injured again? I mean, he’s a good player but it’s crazy how physically fragile he is. You can see why the manager doesn’t want to build a defence around him. Needs to be replaced.

 

[Leftback99]

Ridiculously unreliable. Get him sold.

 

[chocolate cloud]

Farcical he was bought. Utterly sick of injury prone players

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Can we open a non-performance thread for this guy. An absolute Rolls Royce of a CB but he’s made of glass.

 

[saivet]

He's ill it seems, possibly a virus going round the squad.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Adisa]

Ridiculous.

 

[DWelbz19]

Can we open a non-performance thread for this guy. An absolute Rolls Royce of a CB but he’s made of glass.

He’s unwell, not injured.

 

[Remember the geese]

fecking ill! Far too many soft lads in this squad.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[JPRouve]

fecking ill! Far too many soft lads in this squad.

So if you are ill than you are soft?

 

[TsuWave]

He’s not injured, he’s ill

 

[Bubz27]

Making sure he doesn't pick up a knock before that big money move to Saudi.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

fecking ill! Far too many soft lads in this squad.

What a load of shite. Have you ever had flu before?

 

[Remember the geese]

So if you are ill than you are soft?

Yes. Far too many players drop out with illness.

 

[Remember the geese]

What a load of shite. Have you ever had flu before?

It's far too regular an occurance. These guys are supposed to be athletes and less likely to pick up small illnesses.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes. Far too many players drop out with illness.

Okay.

 

[Jev]

It's far too regular an occurance. These guys are supposed to be athletes and less likely to pick up small illnesses.

If anything athletes are more prone to illness due to the stress they put their bodies under every day.

 

[soapythecat]

I’ve never known a season where we’ve had so many players missing through ‘illness’. I’m not saying he’s not poorly - it’s the time of year, but there seems to have been a lot recently.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

It's far too regular an occurance. These guys are supposed to be athletes and less likely to pick up small illnesses.

Sometimes flu can knock you off your feet doesn't matter how fit you are. And it's not just happening at United, West Ham for example have had a lot of players missing recently due to illness.

 

[Apokalips]

If anything athletes are more prone to illness due to the stress they put their bodies under every day.

Was literally going to say this.

 

[Remember the geese]

I’ve never known a season where we’ve had so many players missing through ‘illness’. I’m not saying he’s not poorly - it’s the time of year, but there seems to have been a lot recently.

My point exactly. I have no patience where this is concerned. Especially in regards to certain players who seem to be out for weeks and months at a time.

 

[JPRouve]

I’ve never known a season where we’ve had so many players missing through ‘illness’. I’m not saying he’s not poorly - it’s the time of year, but there seems to have been a lot recently.

One thing to point out is that now we have Covid on top of the flu as a seasonal illness. The symptoms of Omicron are similar to the flu and from what I have seen the intensity is similar. I don't know if it increases the likelihood of catching something but we have more things to catch.