Raphael Varane

VP89

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Lack of physicality is one of his biggest and frankly most bizarre flaws, considering his physical tools

He's weirdly passive, and not nearly as good in duels as he should be

The other big flaw is the tendency to clear the ball straight to an opponent
:nervous:
 

Brwned

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I'm really not sure that those generalisations should exist at all. We shouldn't sign players from Argentina because our record with them is dodgy (bye-bye Agüero). We shouldn't sign any Germans or anyone from Bayern because they've fecked us with Hargreaves & Schweiny (bye-bye Kroos), we shouldn't sign Real Madrid's rejects (bye-bye Robben, Sneijder) etc. Those should be treated by case to case basis. Should we have signed Cavani after Sanchez' fiasco? It depends only on Cavani and Sanchez really has nothing to do with it.
I get what you're saying, but the generalisations you've pulled out are based on superstitions and loose speculation, which I agree shouldn't play a role. There are general traits in players that make them more or less likely to succeed in football, though. We all agree on them. So suggesting there are general traits that make players more or less likely to succeed after a particular move does not make it a sweeping generalisation in and of itself. It depends if there is a substantive causal mechanism underlying the link.

It doesn't seem outlandish to suggest hunger is one of those general traits that actually has an impact. To take your Madrid examples, Robben and Sneijder were especially hungry after failing to thrive at Madrid, and they moved onto clubs who could reasonably claim to have the same level of strength and ambition. It wasn't a step down, and it wasn't moving on after achieving your career peak. For Di Maria and Varane, it would be a step down, and they clearly reached their career peak.
 

AltiUn

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Lack of physicality is one of his biggest and frankly most bizarre flaws, considering his physical tools

He's weirdly passive, and not nearly as good in duels as he should be

The other big flaw is the tendency to clear the ball straight to an opponent
Is this an assessment of Varane or Lindelof? :nervous:
 

Tapori

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I wouldn't get too hung up on the Milner reference, that was just an extreme example. I could just have easily said we shouldn't target Kane as he's never won anything, which would obviously be just as misguided.

My point was that team trophies won with his former club shouldn't be that high on the criteria when looking for a new CB. It doesn't guarantee success. More important is how the new CB's skills compliment Maguire and the style of the team.
Agreed on the last point; Varane would compliment Maguire.
First part, yes, but the point was we need to win and you can't easily dismiss a CB that was literally a key CB for 3 CLs and has passing as his strength along with decent reading of the game.

The sarcasm was a dig at people dismissing Varane as if he is some washed up 38 year old fat CB who will never be able to improve us.
Personally I'd focus on spending on 2 Midfielders as DMs.
 

Judas

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I don't think his age is even remotely important or an issues, he's a baby in CB terms, in fact its a great age to get him if he's motivated. The drawbacks to Varane have been the same throughout his career I think, and they're simply about his play style.
 

Adnan

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Just had a look on a Real Madrid forum and the player's thread is a mixed one with some even saying he's on the decline. He's also described as someone that isn't comfortable in physical duels and a lot of the criticisms mirror what @giorno stated earlier.

I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement. But from what I've read, it seems like it might be better if we opt for short term pain for long term gain and look at signing a up and coming CB like a Kounde, Botman or even a Loic Bade. Because I'm afraid Varane may end up being short term pain without the long-term gain, which could also be said about a younger CB. But we'd at least have the option to recoup a significant part of the transfer fee for a younger player.
 

charlenefan

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Just had a look on a Real Madrid forum and the player's thread is a mixed one with some even saying he's on the decline. He's also described as someone that isn't comfortable in physical duels and a lot of the criticisms mirror what @giorno stated earlier.

I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement. But from what I've read, it seems like it might be better if we opt for short term pain for long term gain and look at signing a up and coming CB like a Kounde, Botman or even a Loic Bade. Because I'm afraid Varane may end up being short term pain without the long-term gain, which could also be said about a younger CB. But we'd at least have the option to recoup a significant part of the transfer fee for a younger player.
I'd be very concerned about Varane being the Alexis Sanchez of CB signings, I'd rather we continue to stay away from these galaitco name signings
 

Tallis

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Let’s just pay the incremental €10-20m for Kounde and grt a CB for 10 years ? There are some red flags around this transfer - recent mediocre form, RM not fighting to keep him, full trophy cabinet
 

#07

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IMO, Varane has always been a bit dozy. I think I saw another poster call him passive, that's probably right.

Varane is one of those players whose athletic gifts have tended to bail him out. His greatest attribute as a centre back is that his physical attributes allow him to recover bad situations. When I watch him I see him often do bizarre things, which make me question his concentration and his reading of the game.

However, if we sign Varane we are not signing him to lead, we're signing him to compensate for Maguire's weaknesses. If Maguire can provide the organisation and leadership Varane will excel.

Its the same with Madrid: Without Sergio Ramos thinking for him Varane can look like a robot without the power on, with Ramos he can become a T-800 (not quite the T-1000).

Should Perez be willing to part with Varane at an acceptable price I've got nothing against it. For all his faults he's easily better than Lindelof and Bailly.
 

dinostar77

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Perez will take us to the cleaners for any madrid player, especially as woodward let him down over the esl.
 

Sayros

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IMO, Varane has always been a bit dozy. I think I saw another poster call him passive, that's probably right.

Varane is one of those players whose athletic gifts have tended to bail him out. His greatest attribute as a centre back is that his physical attributes allow him to recover bad situations. When I watch him I see him often do bizarre things, which make me question his concentration and his reading of the game.

However, if we sign Varane we are not signing him to lead, we're signing him to compensate for Maguire's weaknesses. If Maguire can provide the organisation and leadership Varane will excel.

Its the same with Madrid: Without Sergio Ramos thinking for him Varane can look like a robot without the power on, with Ramos he can become a T-800 (not quite the T-1000).

Should Perez be willing to part with Varane at an acceptable price I've got nothing against it. For all his faults he's easily better than Lindelof and Bailly.
Hey man....

I'm taking the good ol' T-800 over the T-1000 any day of the week. Hasta la vista, baby!

I also think it's a bit unfair to say he's a robot without the power on without a leader in defense next to him. At least, during the world cup, he was an absolute leader for France and he was organizing things along with Umtiti (who was more of a second-in-command at the back). I haven't watched him as much recently for Madrid, the games I did catch I thought he was poor but others are telling me he was not quite as bad as I thought overall but also not quite as good as you'd like to see for a guy of his talent. I just think a change of environment, a new challenge, and a new team will be the right things to get him motivated.
 

Polar

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Perfect swap deal: Varane in - Pogba out.

Rice in - Lingard + £30m

Sancho in - £70m

Perfect summer = £100m and a better more balanced team:drool:
 

Mylock

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I'm not sure if Varane is passed his best; he hasn't been brilliant for the last 2
Perfect swap deal: Varane in - Pogba out.

Rice in - Lingard + £30m

Sancho in - £70m

Perfect summer = £100m and a better, more balanced team:drool:
I'm still not convinced that Varane is the CH we need; his form over the last two years isn't great; he has also become injury prone. He was a great player, but the question is, has he lost it?

I would agree with your other suggestions. I would also suggest we would need someone to replace pogba; I'd love to see us sign Grealish as well; class player made for United with that arrogant style.
 

OverratedOpinion

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Perfect swap deal: Varane in - Pogba out.

Rice in - Lingard + £30m

Sancho in - £70m

Perfect summer = £100m and a better more balanced team:drool:
Maybe, what if we do that and Greenwood/Rashforf play better than Sancho and we keep conceding goals?

I think that there is every chance both happen.
 

Polar

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Maybe, what if we do that and Greenwood/Rashforf play better than Sancho and we keep conceding goals?

I think that there is every chance both happen.
I’m worried we continue to overplay Rashford. We need both Greenwood, Rashford and Sancho. Our current wing squad isn’t sustainable.

We should prioritise a wing and a CB next window, and we should be able to reinforce both positions.
 

Cloud7

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There aren't really many decent Cb options available. If the price isn't too extortionate, and by that I mean takes away from us getting a quality DM and one more quality attacker, then I would be in favor of this. What's his injury record like?
 

criticalanalysis

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Lack of physicality is one of his biggest and frankly most bizarre flaws, considering his physical tools

He's weirdly passive, and not nearly as good in duels as he should be

The other big flaw is the tendency to clear the ball straight to an opponent
Thanks...

Is this an assessment of Varane or Lindelof? :nervous:
Exactly, yikes :(

Truth be told, as is the sentiment on this thread, I'd still take him in a heartbeat over Lindelof but the caution is more, if there are other better options out there.
 
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Rozay

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I get what you're saying, but the generalisations you've pulled out are based on superstitions and loose speculation, which I agree shouldn't play a role. There are general traits in players that make them more or less likely to succeed in football, though. We all agree on them. So suggesting there are general traits that make players more or less likely to succeed after a particular move does not make it a sweeping generalisation in and of itself. It depends if there is a substantive causal mechanism underlying the link.

It doesn't seem outlandish to suggest hunger is one of those general traits that actually has an impact. To take your Madrid examples, Robben and Sneijder were especially hungry after failing to thrive at Madrid, and they moved onto clubs who could reasonably claim to have the same level of strength and ambition. It wasn't a step down, and it wasn't moving on after achieving your career peak. For Di Maria and Varane, it would be a step down, and they clearly reached their career peak.
So what are the options for a player leaving Madrid? Or is it that you simply just can’t leave Madrid, or we’ll all be suspicious? Is a tale about wanting to move home to be closer to a sick mother required? Or should they publicly declare pay cuts so that everyone knows they are not chasing money? Or should these players retire and then give the same old interview about how they were close to joining United at one point, and they’ve always been fascinated by the English game and would have loved to play in it?

Varane isn’t Spanish. Madrid isn’t his home. I don’t see why he’s obliged to stay there for his entire career. He’s won everything over and over there. All the noises from Madrid have suggested that they would like him to stay, but won’t put a gun to his head basically. I think it’s a bigger stretch to say that a player just turned 28 is preparing for retirement than he wants to try something else. Especially when that something else is Manchester United and not a move to the Chinese Super League or something. After all, you mentioned Di Maria, who has been playing fantastic stuff for PSG. Thiago clearly wasn’t forced out of Germany, and wanted to try another league. I think the notion of players spending their entire careers at a club is a little romantic. We’ve been blessed to have a few that have done it, but players move around. Varane moving to United would be no different to Ronaldo’s move to Juventus.

I get your point about hunger, but then us fans overrate our ability to discern what a player’s motives are. Cavani was ‘after a pay day’ apparently.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Varane isn't world-class but he is very close, and he is probably the best defender available. He is tall, good in the air and comfortable on the ball - exactly what we need
On paper he's absolutely perfect for us.

But as @Brwned rightly said, Manchester United's fans tend to have had much better experiences with players under 25/27. We tend to have a hash of these slightly older signings which often blow up in our faces. So the skepticism is understandable and I feel it too.
 

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On paper he's absolutely perfect for us.

But as @Brwned rightly said, Manchester United's fans tend to have had much better experiences with players under 25/27. We tend to have a hash of these slightly older signings which often blow up in our faces. So the skepticism is understandable and I feel it too.
And with Cavani we said, if only we had gotten him much sooner. At which point we would be taking about 27-28, their prime. RvP wasn’t half bad either. We have plenty of young talent in the squad.
 

Rob Bowman

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So what are the options for a player leaving Madrid? Or is it that you simply just can’t leave Madrid, or we’ll all be suspicious?
Makelele...

Madrid have never valued defensive players.

Now not saying we have to have Varane, I understand the caution, but he is certainly an upgrade over our CB options.
 

Brwned

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So what are the options for a player leaving Madrid? Or is it that you simply just can’t leave Madrid, or we’ll all be suspicious? Is a tale about wanting to move home to be closer to a sick mother required? Or should they publicly declare pay cuts so that everyone knows they are not chasing money? Or should these players retire and then give the same old interview about how they were close to joining United at one point, and they’ve always been fascinated by the English game and would have loved to play in it?

Varane isn’t Spanish. Madrid isn’t his home. I don’t see why he’s obliged to stay there for his entire career. He’s won everything over and over there. All the noises from Madrid have suggested that they would like him to stay, but won’t put a gun to his head basically. I think it’s a bigger stretch to say that a player just turned 28 is preparing for retirement than he wants to try something else. Especially when that something else is Manchester United and not a move to the Chinese Super League or something. After all, you mentioned Di Maria, who has been playing fantastic stuff for PSG. Thiago clearly wasn’t forced out of Germany, and wanted to try another league. I think the notion of players spending their entire careers at a club is a little romantic. We’ve been blessed to have a few that have done it, but players move around. Varane moving to United would be no different to Ronaldo’s move to Juventus.

I get your point about hunger, but then us fans overrate our ability to discern what a player’s motives are. Cavani was ‘after a pay day’ apparently.
It doesn’t have anything to do with Madrid. I’d have few concerns about signing Militão from them, for example. I agree with you that people on the outside are pretty useless at judging hunger. It was one of the things Sir Alex was really good at, though. And it seemed to be something he prioritised. I have no idea whether he’s still hungry but from the limited evidence we have, it seems a void concern. I hope we spend more time evaluating that than his potential suitability as Maguire’s partner.
 

lysglimt

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On paper he's absolutely perfect for us.

But as @Brwned rightly said, Manchester United's fans tend to have had much better experiences with players under 25/27. We tend to have a hash of these slightly older signings which often blow up in our faces. So the skepticism is understandable and I feel it too.
I am sorry but I don't agree with this - we have had plenty of younger signings that have blown up in our faces as well (Di Maria, Veron) - it's about the signing the right players, regardless if they are old or young. If Varane is 90% of the player he has been at Madrid, he will be a big upgrade from what we have. Would anyone even ask the same question if we signed Kane ?

I see one problem with Varane and that is the price, but if we can get him for £50 mill - it's a no brainer
 

croadyman

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Hoping we are the better offer that Marca say he has received elsewhere but will probably end up being Chelsea
 

amolbhatia50k

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I am sorry but I don't agree with this - we have had plenty of younger signings that have blown up in our faces as well (Di Maria, Veron) - it's about the signing the right players, regardless if they are old or young. If Varane is 90% of the player he has been at Madrid, he will be a big upgrade from what we have. Would anyone even ask the same question if we signed Kane ?

I see one problem with Varane and that is the price, but if we can get him for £50 mill - it's a no brainer
You're right but the difference with the younger lot is that you can afford a bad /adapting year or two, can mould them to an extent as they're capable of more change and of course the resale value exists. That's why we were able to get rid of Veron and ADM fairly easily. With older players once it doesn't work out it just becomes a real drag on the football club

But of course I can't disagree that every case is different. RVP walked in and absolutely owned the place. Then again, he was the PL's best footballer at the time. Varane has more question marks.

A fit and motivated Varane though is just what this team needs. He'd be the perfect foil for Maguire. We could play the high line without any fear.
 

Eternitiy

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Please let us sign Fofana from Leicester instead.

Varane should have been signed in 2011. It's too late now.
 

Rojow

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He has won everything at club level. I don't know if he is super competitive to keep wanting to win at all cost. Some players just rest in their laurels when they win everything.
 

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I'd like him, but if he renews, better than him going Chelsea.
 

croadyman

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He'd be a fantastic signing. Make it happen!
Yeah have wanted to sign him ever since Fergie showed interest in the summer of 2011 and we ended up with Phil, really don't want to believe he is playing the same game as Ramos in 2015 but then I could end up being proved wrong on that
 

talking robot

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Yeah have wanted to sign him ever since Fergie showed interest in the summer of 2011 and we ended up with Phil, really don't want to believe he is playing the same game as Ramos in 2015 but then I could end up being proved wrong on that
Unfortunately I actually do think it is just a contract game.
 

TheHeya

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Stinks of when we were linked with Ramos 4-5 years ago. He’ll renew.