Rashford's lack of willingness to dribble is causing us problems and Shaw's absence is exposing it

[LARulz]

This kind of thread pops up all the time.
Martial was criticised, Pogba... pretty much every player has got stick on here. It amuses me. Recall the ‘ Fred is a pointless player,’ comments.Now it appears he’s ‘vital.’

But it's a valid point to talk about. This is a forum to discuss players and performances. Rashford (or whoever) are being discussed (I think) in a way more constructive way than we normally see. That thread on Fred is good in hindsight but almost everybody and their dog thought he was utter shit for a long time with us, it's editing history to say he was always useful for us.

May as well shut the football forum down if you can't discuss a player's performance fairly constructively, even if you diaagree. I would rather this than one liners from everyone saying "X is shit" or everyone sitting here saying "X is the best player ever" cos they play for us.

It's fair to discuss Rashford's unwillingness/inability to take players on as often as he either used to or feels he should. Is it tactics, he has lost confidence, is it just injury recovery? And then the knock on effect of the team, does that then mean we aren't playing as well/fluid because of it

 

[MichaelRed]

But it's a valid point to talk about. This is a forum to discuss players and performances. Rashford (or whoever) are being discussed (I think) in a way more constructive way than we normally see. That thread on Fred is good in hindsight but almost everybody and their dog thought he was utter shit for a long time with us, it's editing history to say he was always useful for us.

May as well shut the football forum down if you can't discuss a player's performance fairly constructively, even if you diaagree. I would rather this than one liners from everyone saying "X is shit" or everyone sitting here saying "X is the best player ever" cos they play for us.

It's fair to discuss Rashford's unwillingness/inability to take players on as often as he either used to or feels he should. Is it tactics, he has lost confidence, is it just injury recovery? And then the knock on effect of the team, does that then mean we aren't playing as well/fluid because of it

Thank you! That last part is exactly the point of making this thread for me. I want to know people's opinions on why this is happening, how it can change/improve & how it is affecting the team & how the team can be changed to adapt to it i.e putting him on the right so AWB can overlap and give him that extra space that may bring him the confidence to go at his man without worrying about getting past 1 man only to be dispossed by the 2nd because the 2nd man is busy chasing our overlapping fullback etc.

 

[VP89]

Which position on the pitch is the whim?

At that age? It was everywhere, even when deployed centrally he would work channels and show breat bursts to beat players. His technique was just another level on top. My point being, Rooney is in no way a fair comparison to Rashford. Rashford might be a great talent but he's no Wayne. I'd argue Martial is more gifted from a talent perspective, and even he's no Wayne.

 

[rotherham_red]

Ole is the kind of manager that doesn't improve players.

Yeah, except every player in the attack and Fred and Scott... Oh, and Shaw and AWB, and so on and so on...

 

[Dan_F]

Where'd you get this nonsense from? My OP literally says he's a big game player that has thrived vs the top teams. He has only struggled vs Spurs under Mourinho because of the way Mourinho gets his teams to play very deep which isn't like most top teams. Your comment on why he can't improve his game is also a bit irrelevant if you're trying to argue with my post because the OP also says I want him to improve on his dribbling, something I wouldn't say if I didn't believe he could. I've even given him another excuse with the fullback issue so it's not like I want to attack Rashford, more that I'm curious about what people would do in the immediate future given our current situation is one without Shaw and in a world where Rashford isn't going to improve his close control tenfold overnight.

I don’t get the point of the thread. You’ve listed reasons why he’s struggling more than usual and again, you’re using his first game back after a fractured back to highlight this. All of our players struggle against a low block, it’s not just Rashford. Taking multiple players on isn’t an effective way to beat a low block, effective movement and passing is.

There is no immediate solution, unless you would rather play Dan James or Lingard. Shaw is injured, so there’s not much we can do there, apart from maybe give him a rest after such a serious injury, rather than running him into the ground with 90/120 minutes every game we play.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

But it's a valid point to talk about. This is a forum to discuss players and performances. Rashford (or whoever) are being discussed (I think) in a way more constructive way than we normally see. That thread on Fred is good in hindsight but almost everybody and their dog thought he was utter shit for a long time with us, it's editing history to say he was always useful for us.

May as well shut the football forum down if you can't discuss a player's performance fairly constructively, even if you diaagree. I would rather this than one liners from everyone saying "X is shit" or everyone sitting here saying "X is the best player ever" cos they play for us.

It's fair to discuss Rashford's unwillingness/inability to take players on as often as he either used to or feels he should. Is it tactics, he has lost confidence, is it just injury recovery? And then the knock on effect of the team, does that then mean we aren't playing as well/fluid because of it

It's laughable to put down the lack of fluency to one player.

Bruno hasn't contributed nearly as much in the last few games as his high standards demand but I don't see any negative Bruno threads.

Yes there are valid points to talk about but Rashford appears to be the current whipping boy. It lacks objectivity and is in short, absurd

 

[acnumber9]

It's laughable to put down the lack of fluency to one player.

Bruno hasn't contributed nearly as much in the last few games as his high standards demand but I don't see any negative Bruno threads.

Yes there are valid points to talk about but Rashford appears to be the current whipping boy. It lacks objectivity and is in short, absurd

Bruno Fernándes isn’t competing with Anthony Martial, that’s why.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Bruno Fernándes isn’t competing with Anthony Martial, that’s why.

OK, if we sign a competitive player for that CM spot, do you see Bruno coming under far more critical scrutiny? Personally, I don't for at least a few months then if he continues in this largely average form(pens apart) I expect to see threads like 'Time To Burst Bruno's Bubble.'

This place!

 

[acnumber9]

OK, if we sign a competitive player for that CM spot, do you see Bruno coming under far more critical scrutiny? Personally, I don't for at least a few months then if he continues in this largely average form(pens apart) I expect to see threads like 'Time To Burst Bruno's Bubble.'

This place!

Depends on who the favourite is I suppose. You’ll definitely get threads like that about one of the players.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Depends on who the favourite is I suppose. You’ll definitely get threads like that about one of the players.

I'd say all of them.

I'm happy for them to keep popping up. At least it's not insulting. Go on the toxic Twitter and you'll see a whole load of vile insults directed at him. I really hope he doesn't read the bloody thing

 

[dabeast]

Rashford has fantastic technique and is probably as good as anyone at dribbling past ONE defender. The problem is that he loses his head after beating the first defender and, unlike people like Martial and Sancho (who are near Messi-level), and even Greenwood, he cannot navigate multiple defender obstacle courses.

This appears to be a mental thing that could be addressed by doing dribbling practice over long distances. However, Rashford has to start taking it seriously.

 

[Bebestation]

Do people not know what the spine does to you? Wow.

It's like one of the most important bones in your body.

 

[romufc]

The absence of Luke Shaw is showing. Rashford and Shaw have an understanding on the left, they work well with each other.

Players at his age will drop form and pick it up, I am not too worried about Rashford at the moment.

 

[TwoSheds]

Drawing conclusions from when he's in a sustained period of poor form is strange to me. It's like the people criticising Dan James for not being able to cross. When they were in flying form earlier in the season I never heard anyone mentioning these things because they're actually quite decent at them, but when they're out of form all the critiques come out.

I don't understand how you can watch football for more than a year or two and not get the concept of form.

 

[DCP]

Rashfords current issue (along with our teams issue) is the lack of width from the left full back. When Shaw plays we are a much much much better side. It also gives Rashford the licence to come inside whilst the defender has to worry about the overlap. Currently with Williams, that isn't the case. Our line up requires full backs that can hold their width and overlap. AWB isn't the worlds best attacking outlet but at least he provides the width on the right hand side.

 

[LARulz]

It's laughable to put down the lack of fluency to one player.

Bruno hasn't contributed nearly as much in the last few games as his high standards demand but I don't see any negative Bruno threads.

Yes there are valid points to talk about but Rashford appears to be the current whipping boy. It lacks objectivity and is in short, absurd

Of course it's not correct to put it all down to one but that one player can have a major impact. If a player the moment he gets the ball hesitates and slows the play down it impacts those who make runs - players may think they need to come short as he won't pick them out otherwise or do less overlaps etc.

A lot of players in the last 5 games have been almost a shadow of themselves compared to what were like pre and immediately post lockdown. But to say Rashford (who is a key part of the way we play) doesn't have a big impact is also incorrect in my view

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Do people not know what the spine does to you? Wow.

It's like one of the most important bones in your body.

The game's just gone soft, back in the day players were known to play without a spine. Jokes aside, he needs a rest. A good two month rehab schedule of rest and light training, slowly building up to match fit. That’s why we desperately need someone who can replace one of the front three.

 

[KennyBurner]

Only Martial dribbles. Rashford is there to hold his position, stretch the pitch to create room for our midfielders to get forward. You dont see Mane going on Mazy runs or Silva leaving defenders for dead.
I keep seeing player criticisms on here, and on Sky, as if coaching, tactics and player instructions doesnt exist.

Yes mane does everything. Do you even watch him? He takes on players when in space and also recycles possession if needed. Also let’s not compare Silva to inside forwards next time.

 

[Teja]

Agree with your overall point OP but hoping it's a temporary dip in form. It feels like he's kind of reverted to the start of season Rashford and not the one that took on a lot of responsibility mid season.

He's a confidence player though and he can be pretty shit when things don't go his way, so just keep putting him out there and until it clicks again.

 

[KennyBurner]

Rashfords current issue (along with our teams issue) is the lack of width from the left full back. When Shaw plays we are a much much much better side. It also gives Rashford the licence to come inside whilst the defender has to worry about the overlap. Currently with Williams, that isn't the case. Our line up requires full backs that can hold their width and overlap. AWB isn't the worlds best attacking outlet but at least he provides the width on the right hand side.

This is false. Williams provided lots of width yesterday. How many times did Maguire cross to him in open space yesterday? I remember at least 3 times. The problem is Rashford isn’t attacking open space well enough like he has done in the past. He passes the ball back a lot when one on one in space. You guys need to stop blaming Williams for Rashford underperforming. It’s a lazy critique. Williams gives so much energy and life to this team.

 

[Lentwood]

Care to expand?

Never, ever criticise Rashford on this forum and expect an easy ride

He’s the most talented player we’ve ever produced and only Jose/injuries/Ole/ confidence/poor coaches/being played out of position/tiredness (delete as appropriate) prevent him for hitting peak Messi levels week in week out

And when the ball rolls off his shin and out of play for the 8th time that game or he misplaces his 20th consecutive pass that’s because nobody is on his wavelength

 

[welshwingwizard]

It's crazy that Martial drifted onto the left for 15 minutes last night and ended the game as our best striker and best left winger.

Martial is just in a purple patch at the moment. Throughout the season he has also had runs where he has been really poor.

Rashford on the whole is in a dip but has had a great season keeping us in the race for top 4 and has progressed another level.

Like all young players maturing they are both going to have periods of inconsistency. I am pleased they are both ours though.

Dont get the need to put one down at the others expense.

 

[sammsky1]

Interesting observation that Rashford only does it against top teams because they leave him space to exploit. I’d never thought about that and think you’re right.

we saw last night that the only way through a packed low block defence is to tip toe via fast small passes or the slalom type run from Martial. Rashford isn’t brilliant at either approach.

 

[MichaelRed]

Drawing conclusions from when he's in a sustained period of poor form is strange to me. It's like the people criticising Dan James for not being able to cross. When they were in flying form earlier in the season I never heard anyone mentioning these things because they're actually quite decent at them, but when they're out of form all the critiques come out.

I don't understand how you can watch football for more than a year or two and not get the concept of form.

Form has nothing to do with it in my opinion. This has never been a strength for Rashford but it's only getting truly exposed with Shaw's absence. It's also not exactly a conclusion because I'm sure he can improve on his close control, it's not like anyone is saying he's finished.

 

[MichaelRed]

Martial is just in a purple patch at the moment. Throughout the season he has also had runs where he has been really poor.

Rashford on the whole is in a dip but has had a great season keeping us in the race for top 4 and has progressed another level.

Like all young players maturing they are both going to have periods of inconsistency. I am pleased they are both ours though.

Dont get the need to put one down at the others expense.

Can you give me examples of this? Saying he has had runs of being really poor means multiple games in a row of very substandard performances. I simply do not agree that Martial has experienced that this season.

 

[3KDré]

Never, ever criticise Rashford on this forum and expect an easy ride

He’s the most talented player we’ve ever produced and only Jose/injuries/Ole/ confidence/poor coaches/being played out of position/tiredness (delete as appropriate) prevent him for hitting peak Messi levels week in week out

And when the ball rolls off his shin and out of play for the 8th time that game or he misplaces his 20th consecutive pass that’s because nobody is on his wavelength

No one has ever said that. People are just asking for some perspective. 30+ goals and assists this season. More than Mane, who is arguably the best LW in the world. And he was definitely dribbling at his defenders and being more adventurous before the stress fracture in his back. So, given that he hasn't really looked the same since the stress fracture don't you think it may have something to do with it? And regardless, Rashford may be out of form (for whatever the actual reason is) the alternatives are James/Lingard/Chong or Martial in his position with Ighalo up top. Martial has been great as a striker so why move him? Given that Rashford and Martial have a great chemistry, if you were Ole in a quarter final would you pick Rashford or any of those? Because even when is crap, he is the most likely to have a random moment of brilliance out of all the other options.

 

[MichaelRed]

No one has ever said that. People are just asking for some perspective. 30+ goals and assists this season. More than Mane, who is arguably the best LW in the world. And he was definitely dribbling at his defenders and being more adventurous before the stress fracture in his back. So, given that he hasn't really looked the same since the stress fracture don't you think it may have something to do with it? And regardless, Rashford may be out of form (for whatever the actual reason is) the alternatives are James/Lingard/Chong or Martial in his position with Ighalo up top. Martial has been great as a striker so why move him? Given that Rashford and Martial have a great chemistry, if you were Ole in a quarter final would you pick Rashford or any of those? Because even when is crap, he is the most likely to have a random moment of brilliance out of all the other options.

Do you believe it's entirely/almost entirely down to the injury? I do think it contributes to his confidence, or lack thereof, but I think the absence of Shaw & the fact that more teams have been playing a low block against us since Bruno came in and transformed us is equally to blame for his dip in form.

 

[b82REZ]

Ole is the kind of manager that doesn't improve players.

I've been pretty vocal throughout the season about my doubts over Ole, but this is pure bullshit. One of the main posotives of his reign so far is the improvement he's made in some of our more maligned players, Shaw and Martial spring to mind.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I would like to see him moving more off the ball. Martial, for example, has excellent movement off the ball, which leads to chances. Rashford since he returned seems more static.

 

[pratyush_utd]

I think we should give him extended break. No need to play him in Europa league anymore.

 

[3KDré]

Do you believe it's entirely/almost entirely down to the injury? I do think it contributes to his confidence, or lack thereof, but I think the absence of Shaw & the fact that more teams have been playing a low block against us since Bruno came in and transformed us is equally to blame for his dip in form.

No of course not. Like everything it is multifactorial. Partly down to the instructions that we have him further out wide playing more passes (and he has delivered some peaches recently). However if you've played any sport you will know that when you are playing with a little niggle or injury (or just coming back from one) you don't feel yourself, you second guess yourself, play more conservatively etc etc. That will be the main reason his touch might not have been there. But right now we have no one better, so our only option is to let him work himself back up.

 

[TwoSheds]

Form has nothing to do with it in my opinion. This has never been a strength for Rashford but it's only getting truly exposed with Shaw's absence. It's also not exactly a conclusion because I'm sure he can improve on his close control, it's not like anyone is saying he's finished.

Ok forget Rashford, let's assume we're both biased on that one. Is Dan James as shit a crosser as he looked last time he played? Does form have nothing to do with that?

 

[MichaelRed]

Ok forget Rashford, let's assume we're both biased on that one. Is Dan James as shit a crosser as he looked last time he played? Does form have nothing to do with that?

I think James puts in a decent cross if you're talking solely about the physical action of the cross. Of course he sometimes overhits it but so do most players. My biggest issue with his crossing is that he keeps his head down far too often & so even if he plays a nice ball, it often goes to nobody.

 

[gza the genius]

He had a relatively serious injury that laid him off for months and then he's been forced back in to the team and had to play pretty much every minute in an much higher than normal packed schedule.

He hasn't been very good lately but it's to be expected - he needs a break but we just don't have a solid choice for a replacement right now and every game has been an important one.

 

[OleTheGreat]

I agree with everything that you had to say but i think he's been better this season before the lock down but after the restart, he's been pale. Although i think he looked pretty sharp in the second half against Copenhagen. He's got all the skills in the world to be the best winger for United and i think he'll ultimately come good. He's a player who is sensible and can play with flair but he's been running straight into the defense at time and been quite readable most often. He'll gather more strength before the start of next season and i still think we have the best of Rashford still to come. Martial is another player who I've loved watching since the restart. He's really come good, he's pressed hard, ran a lot and is really making that number 9 position his own. We just need a back up striker and needn't go into the market looking for a striker to replace him in the starting XI. Ighalo isn't good enough, that i know! I hope we can buy a right sided player, anyone even if it is not Sancho because i really want Greenwood to play centrally and as the back up striker to Martial. He can be the Jesus to our Aguero. Not comparing anyone but i think Jesus is a fantastic player and so is Greenwood looking at like for like strikers. In fact i think Greenwood can become a better striker than Jesus.

And and just so you know, the willingness to dribble past a defender is not a trade than any of the current United players have. It's always pass, run and receive which is predictable all the time. Matic fakes passes and makes inward movements and sometimes i feel why can't the younger generation see that and try to emulate him. Beating players will exactly create the space. Bruno is another player who does that on a constant basis regardless of the opposition but the rest always just look for passes.

 

[cyberman]

Yes mane does everything. Do you even watch him? He takes on players when in space and also recycles possession if needed. Also let’s not compare Silva to inside forwards next time.

But Mane doesnt dribble. He uses movement to bring their WC fullbacks into play. Feck me Rashford takes on players when in space as well so the argument is moot anyway.
Ok Bernardo Silva then. Hell Sterling is more pass and move than taking FBs on.
Its not 1997 anymore.

 

[elnorte]

When he's good he's Rashford. When he's bad he's Rashy.

 

[Glorio]

Rashford is not right - simple as.

Peak Rashford has stamina, pace, and dribbling ability as well - we've seen this numerous times and even his teammates affirm this when interviewed about who does what in training.

I really hope the back injury doesn't impact the rest of his career, as he's just not been the same since his return. He's had flashes here and there, but it's obvious that he's going through games sprinting as few times as possible. He plays mostly at walking pace, and the absence of Shaw's runs creating space is making things more glaring.

I don't know whether it's a physical or a mental constraint, but I hope he shakes out of it. Rashford used to be one of our key game changers, one of those that had fans anticipating something special when he had the ball at his feet anywhere beyond the halfway line, these days however, he's become a passenger in so many games that I've come to not really expect anything from him during games.

Ole seems to keep playing him, which suggests to me that it's psychological, more than physical. In which case, he just needs to play through it.
If it's physical though, he shouldn't be on the pitch, simple as. He should be allowed to recover properly, lest we end up with a worse long term impact.

 

[KennyBurner]

But Mane doesnt dribble. He uses movement to bring their WC fullbacks into play. Feck me Rashford takes on players when in space as well so the argument is moot anyway.
Ok Bernardo Silva then. Hell Sterling is more pass and move than taking FBs on.
Its not 1997 anymore.

Come on this is a load of rubbish. You used the worst examples in mane and Silva. Mane is an effective dribbler similar to martial. They use quick feet and change in direction to beat their opponents. How can you even claim mane doesn’t take on his opponent in open space when he does exactly that???

never said rashford doesn’t take on his opponent but rather he hasn’t been doing so since the restart. He is more likely to pass the ball back than advance it forward when one on one.

 

[El Jefe]

Rashford is fine just a little out of form at the moment. Rather than Shaw's absence exposing this, its Williams inclusion that is hurting us.

Williams and Rashford have zero chemistry on the left. Williams has no left foot and has to cut in just as Rashford does and it's killing our left wing. Before Shaw's injury, Rashford was actually the one making Shaw look good, played him in countless of times and made the most of his overlapping on the outside.

Rashford has no trouble attacking his fullback at all. Go back and watch our 2-1 victory over Spurs where he tore Aurier a new one, they even tried doubling up on him after a while and it made no difference. This was against a Jose low block defence btw.