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Rasmus Hojlund Denmark flag

2023-24 Performances


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5.5 Season Average Rating
Appearances
38
Goals
11
Assists
2
Yellow cards
2

The Mitcher

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Felt for him when he looked up and saw there was none of his teammates running towards him to celebrate or even congratulate him after scoring the winning pen. He looked genuinely taken aback by it. Nice of Eriksen to walk towards him to do that for his fellow countryman. But i’m sure Rasmus now knows why
Nothing to do with him, they were embarrassed. He probably should have read the room a bit better.
 

city-puma

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I'm generally a positive fan but I'm really struggling with Rasmus. It's not his fault he's our only option at CF, and maybe with better planning he'd be a £25m backup for the next 2-3 seasons, but I really can't get over how bad his off the ball movement is. Every single game, there'll be an instance where one of our players is carrying the ball on a break with Hojlund ahead. His movement always kills the attack.

Making runs and general positioning in counter-attacks is something you learn as a kid and he seems to be completely lacking in that department,. It's the least he should be capable of, for now.
The real issue is that we paid 75m, EUR?
But, it’s not his fault. It is unfair for him to be judged so badly because everyone knows his price tag. He probably needs a few reasons to develop flawlessly to reach Lukaku’s level. But, not everyone likes Lukaku in the team. The poor first touch kills all the momentum of the team play. I don’t know how Huglund could improve it.
Just watched a few moments of No.14 in Crystal Palace team. I am thinking why we spent so much, 75m?! Crazy!
 

Tony247

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Yeah I actually had that thought yesterday and completely forgot that when writing what I said tbf :lol: Runs from deep are much harder to track.
I don't get this. So you have wingers who can't score and you are asking your only CF to make decoy runs instead of creating chances for him? Surely not throughout the entire game.
 

Rozay

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He's playing a different role, one that involves running from deep, maybe they can only see those sorts of runs?
I also don't think the goals he's scored have occurred in quite the way you might think. He's had about 3-4 that have been from loose balls dropping in the box.
And he’s scored a lot more than 3-4 goals. He’s on the move in the box and finds space, which is why he gets goals (and even shots that do not lead to goals!). Hojlund shoots once every 2 or 3 weeks.
 

yamo123x

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To be honest every part of me wants him to be a success and whilst it is still early days in his united career, i have to say based on what he has showed so far he looks well short of the level required.

Yes he is raw and yes the service is not flowing for him but when he does have the ball he spends most of the time on the floor, his first touch is poor and his awareness and strikers instinct isnt there.
72 million we paid so we have to stick with him but he shouldnt be first choice striker at this club right now,
 

Cassidy

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Nothing to do with him, they were embarrassed. He probably should have read the room a bit better.
Young player scores winning penalty to send club to cup final. “He should have read the room better”
 

Gandalf

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And he’s scored a lot more than 3-4 goals. He’s on the move in the box and finds space, which is why he gets goals (and even shots that do not lead to goals!). Hojlund shoots once every 2 or 3 weeks.
Considering he has scored 13 goals he must be lethal when he does shoot!

Tons of over the top commentary in this thread. He is a developmental player who has been asked to be the lead striker instead and that is after not joining us in time for pre season and arriving with an injury. He does some things well and some not so well, it is nonsense to suggest he cannot improve but it is equally true he is out of his depth right now. I would really not make any snap judgements. He could be winning the golden boot or getting the boot in a couple of years time but I don't think anyone can say with certainty which it will be right now because the entire team is such a shambles and so it must be a nightmare for an inexperienced young player to try and develop his craft.
 

Offsideagain

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Hojlund is another EtH purchase that we overpaid for. He's a willing player and has some talent clearly when it come to sticking the ball in the net. Trouble is, he's not getting quality service and he's spending too much time running around chasing the ball in a high press with no other players to help him. How many times do we see out players marking full backs at goal kicks? Just Hojlund and the Keeper who passes to the right back, Hojlund chases, right back passes to Keeper etc. Given the right players behind him and the fact he will only get bigger and stronger, I think he'll do ok.
 

Paul778

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Hojlund is another EtH purchase that we overpaid for. He's a willing player and has some talent clearly when it come to sticking the ball in the net. Trouble is, he's not getting quality service and he's spending too much time running around chasing the ball in a high press with no other players to help him. How many times do we see out players marking full backs at goal kicks? Just Hojlund and the Keeper who passes to the right back, Hojlund chases, right back passes to Keeper etc. Given the right players behind him and the fact he will only get bigger and stronger, I think he'll do ok.
I think it's too early to say we overpaid for him. Our three main options from the wing make no effort to find him. We will only really know if we actively try to give him service.
 

Matt Varnish

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He's 21 and been forced into a team full of prima donnas and misfits, barely 9 months into playing in a foreign league in a foreign country, he's still reeling from a stupid price tag, and being part of a team that barely runs on one cylinder.
At least he's trying, and if he has a fault, at times he's trying too hard
 

Abraxas

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Not sure I buy ETH saying he's always confident, maybe he puts on a good face but at the moment he looks a bit sheepish. At the moment he looks exactly like what he is, a young player in a big side that's also a poor side and it's not easy to deal with that.

Needs some definite support next season as we continue to develop his game. I think given he's quite a late developer he could have a few years of genuine improvement to make but we don't want to be placing quite so many eggs in that basket next season.
 

QuietOn Fortune

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In an interview he said Lukaku was one of the players he analysed a lot.

I can kind of see similarities between their strengths and weaknesses for example Balance.
 

Rozay

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Considering he has scored 13 goals he must be lethal when he does shoot!

Tons of over the top commentary in this thread. He is a developmental player who has been asked to be the lead striker instead and that is after not joining us in time for pre season and arriving with an injury. He does some things well and some not so well, it is nonsense to suggest he cannot improve but it is equally true he is out of his depth right now. I would really not make any snap judgements. He could be winning the golden boot or getting the boot in a couple of years time but I don't think anyone can say with certainty which it will be right now because the entire team is such a shambles and so it must be a nightmare for an inexperienced young player to try and develop his craft.
Well he is, it’s hardly a secret that his goals this season have come from little over two thirds of his shots.

Or are you claiming that he had shots on target in either game against Liverpool recently, any against Chelsea, any against Bournemouth or any against fecking Coventry City even? Instead of shooting, he only conspired to make a complete mess of perfect ‘service’ to him against Coventry.

He, well not he, but people on the internet, should probably stop holding everyone else accountable for his poor performances. You call the criticisms of the football matches he has played for us ‘over the top’, yet cede that ‘he is out of his depth right now’. What exactly do you expect performance analysis of a player out of his depth to look like?
 

Lu Tze

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It's like ETH would prefer him to solely be a runner than an actual striker. He is playing the hardest position in football right now with 0 support and teammates who never look for him.
 

Rozay

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It's like ETH would prefer him to solely be a runner than an actual striker. He is playing the hardest position in football right now with 0 support and teammates who never look for him.
And how is he supporting his teammates? He is as much a part of this underperforming team as anyone when we decide to remove all the mitigation we have applied for him, rightly or wrongly.

If Kobbie Mainoo came into the team and performed poorly, everyone on here would have undoubtedly excused it on the basis that he is 18, and blamed his teammates who were also performing poorly, apparently making it impossible for him to play well himself. However, in spite of that, he’s decided to play good because he is good. He will of course look even better if his teammates improved. Garnacho has played well because he’s taken ownership and responsibility for his performances and simply played well. He has not chosen to take the opportunity to play poorly because Rashford is playing poorly and he can say ‘well if the team was better, I would be too’. If he has to be out only performing winger, then that’s what he will be. Dalot has done similarly. Hojlund has played poorly for many games, and there is no other player who should be called to answer for Hojlund’s performances than him. By all means, they can answer for their own, which have probably been rubbish too - but I don’t see anyone saying Rashford would be playing better if the striker next to him was doing more.
 

Brightonian

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I'm still of the opinion that, even though he's had a rough season for the most part, I've seen enough positives to believe there's potential there. We just need to see him under a good manager that plays an actual coherent system.
More than that, for me. I'd say I've seen plenty of evidence to be confident that he will become a superb striker.
 

Gandalf

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Well he is, it’s hardly a secret that his goals this season have come from little over two thirds of his shots.

Or are you claiming that he had shots on target in either game against Liverpool recently, any against Chelsea, any against Bournemouth or any against fecking Coventry City even? Instead of shooting, he only conspired to make a complete mess of perfect ‘service’ to him against Coventry.

He, well not he, but people on the internet, should probably stop holding everyone else accountable for his poor performances. You call the criticisms of the football matches he has played for us ‘over the top’, yet cede that ‘he is out of his depth right now’. What exactly do you expect performance analysis of a player out of his depth to look like?
Well I am not holding everyone else accountable for his poor performances so I won't respond to that as you are addressing someone else in your reply to me obviously. I did say certain comments in this thread are over the top, he does not shoot enough but saying once every two or three weeks is clearly a good example of that as it is patently not true. Sorry if that came across as singling you out.

When he was signed there was talk of what would be a decent return for what we knew was an obviously raw and inexperienced player and 15 goals was seen as a good benchmark for this season by many. He is 2 away from that number and yet there are comments in this thread basically giving up on him and writing him off as a transfer on the level of Antony. I find that ridiculous, he is exactly what I expected at this point and the next couple of seasons will show if he has the drive and character to develop into the player he could be.

There are things that will help him, a genuine experienced second striker to rotate with him and for him to learn from and a settled team structure rather than our current chaos ball, but it is ultimately in his hands. I want to be an optimist at this point but I am not blind to his flaws and I do want him to improve.
 

golden_blunder

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He’s 21, he’s not going to be perfect at that age, he is still developing. He will have good games and bad games. Its not his fault that he’s the only option
 

Rozay

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It's like ETH would prefer him to solely be a runner than an actual striker. He is playing the hardest position in football right now with 0 support and teammates who never look for him.
How is he supporting his teammates? He is as much a part of this underperforming team as anyone when we decide to remove all the mitigation we have applied for him, rightly or wrongly.

If Kobbie Mainoo came into the team and performed poorly, everyone on here would have undoubtedly excused it on the basis that he is 18, and blamed his teammates who were also performing poorly. However, in spite of that, he’s decided to play good because he is good. Garnacho has played well because he’s taken ownership and responsibility for his performances and simply played well. He has not chosen to take the opportunity to play poorly because Rashford is playing poorly and he can say ‘well if the team was better, I would be too.
 

wolvored

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At £72 mill he was the wrong buy for this team. We needed an experienced striker as we dont score enough goals season on season. We should never spend this much money on unexperienced players, it wasnt as if he was prolific at Atalanta.
 

Rozay

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Well I am not holding everyone else accountable for his poor performances so I won't respond to that as you are addressing someone else in your reply to me obviously. I did say certain comments in this thread are over the top, he does not shoot enough but saying once every two or three weeks is clearly a good example of that as it is patently not true. Sorry if that came across as singling you out.

When he was signed there was talk of what would be a decent return for what we knew was an obviously raw and inexperienced player and 15 goals was seen as a good benchmark for this season by many. He is 2 away from that number and yet there are comments in this thread basically giving up on him and writing him off as a transfer on the level of Antony. I find that ridiculous, he is exactly what I expected at this point and the next couple of seasons will show if he has the drive and character to develop into the player he could be.

There are things that will help him, a genuine experienced second striker to rotate with him and for him to learn from and a settled team structure rather than our current chaos ball, but it is ultimately in his hands. I want to be an optimist at this point but I am not blind to his flaws and I do want him to improve.
Well I listed the games over the last one month, and I can recall a shot on target against Brentford and no others in that period, so I stand to be corrected if he has been testing goalkeepers in that period.

I’ve not seen people writing him off. There are some people who are not simply adding the benefits of performances we HOPE to see in two seasons to assessments of today. When he plays better, I imagine the discussion will read better.

And I find it hard to see that he’s exactly where you expected at this point, while also clearly being out of his depth right now. I think people may have expected this sort of goal return, although they probably may also not have expected he play so much which could have been factored into that. I don’t generally watch games exclusively through numbers anyway, although I do put greater emphasis on them with strikers I admit. I am more concerned not by the fact that he isn’t scoring, but by the fact that he is not even nearly scoring. That isn’t something I would say I expected. Put the ball over the bar, make the keeper make some saves, hit the post, have shots blocked on the line etc. I’m fine with all of that.

This is of course a game of opinions, but I don’t think I can be convinced that he is playing well by any metric. I come on here and read every day that Darwin Nunez is apparently terrible but he is far more threatening than Hojlund. He is a player that you can watch and think in a couple of years things will go for him and he will score many because a lot of what he does is clearly right. I’m not seeing that with Hojlund, he looks, as you put it - out of his depth. I am of course hopeful that he will get better as he gets older, but right now, that isn’t particularly evidenced based - it’s simply biased hope mixed with a simplistic logic that players get better as they age.
 

Ali Dia

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Young player scores winning penalty to send club to cup final. “He should have read the room better”
Exactly. What a crazy take. It’s his first season at Utd, the biggest club and opportunity he’s probably ever going to have. He’s a United fan. We’ve been crap again. He hasn’t scored in a few games. He gets us into the final. I get why the team didn’t go nuts but fecking hell you’re allowed to celebrate scoring the winning penalty in a major semi final especially when it’s your only chance of silverware left.
 

Schmeichels pinky

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I’ve not seen people writing him off
Ok, then you should read the thread. Also, all the explanations you need are found on these pages, so do go have a look.

It sounds like you think we’re his agents or family when it’s really a matter of the level of analysis - do you consider other factors than just goals and assists, do you cherry pick or not and do you have a need for bashing our young players or not.

If you do not bother to read the thread, here’s a short summary for you:

RH has already shown why he’s rated as a special talent in football. His extreme rise from the bench in Denmark to Austria, Italy and us in about a year and a half is not coincidental. From the outset in august and the first 4 months he showed that he’s more than capable of troubling even the best defenders in the pl with his physicality. He also showed many other skills that some forget and now claim he doesn’t have - elegant lay offs and passes that should’ve resulted in at least a couple of assists from Garnacho and Bruno, tenacity in pressing, dribbling and carrying the ball (beating and out sprinting Van der Veen for example), and not least very good movement and finishing, though he was very unlucky to have two or three goals ruled out in the Prem. In that same period he was our top scorer in CL, and he showed remarkable mental strength for a 21 year old not losing his confidence nor his positivity even though his teammates didn’t play him much.
Then the goals came in the PL and his critics were silent until he came back from injury into a totally dysfunctional team. Now it seems the negativity and seemingly toxic environment has got to him. Or maybe he is doubting himself and his runs because the manager doesn’t have a clear style of play. Hard to say, but what we can say is that he hasn’t suddenly become a bad footballer as some seem to think. Also, he comes off as one of the few players who keeps trying and takes responsibility no matter what. That’s more than you can say about our captain for instance.

Summa summarum: Hojlund is a very promising talent and like all other young players he should not be judged as if he was playing for a well drilled, mentally astute team. You have to consider the circumstances and you have to remember what he has actually shown he’s capable off - if you want an accurate assessment and not just get your frustration out, that is.
 

soapythecat

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I honestly don’t see what many see with this lad. He looks Miles of it and if we hadn’t paid big money for him, he’d be back in the U21s or sat on the bench at best. He’s in the starting 11 due to being the only forward we have, which is tough on him as there’s so much pressure on him.
I’d love him to come good but I reckon he will be a bit part player next season with A productive forward who helps in the build up of play. Rasmus has offered absolutely nothing recently.
 

Beachryan

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He's a striker where if he was playing at a mid-lower tier premier league team the entire caf would be desperate for us to buy. Due to age profile, size and potential for better goal return in a better team that creates more chances.

He's a 'young 21' in that he's not played that much senior football, and just turned 21. Plus he's a centre forward - a position that takes huge experience to really nail unless you're a ridiculous pace merchant (looking at Owen). Most of the very best in his position don't get going til they've got at least a couple more years in high-level competition. RVN, RVP, Cavani, Kane etc.

Personally I think he's probably the least worrying of the signings. Of course we overpaid, but that's just what Manchester United do. If we'd got him for even a large sum like 40m, I think people would be far more patient. Which is ridiculous, the fee has nothing to do with the player.

There are plenty of things he needs to work on of course. For me heading is the major issue. Has he won a single header from a corner this season? He's a huge lad, but doesn't seem to have that instinct at all, and it's something crucial with a modern CF, especially if we have small technical players around him. But that can be taught.
 

Rozay

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Ok, then you should read the thread. Also, all the explanations you need are found on these pages, so do go have a look.

It sounds like you think we’re his agents or family when it’s really a matter of the level of analysis - do you consider other factors than just goals and assists, do you cherry pick or not and do you have a need for bashing our young players or not.

If you do not bother to read the thread, here’s a short summary for you:

RH has already shown why he’s rated as a special talent in football. His extreme rise from the bench in Denmark to Austria, Italy and us in about a year and a half is not coincidental. From the outset in august and the first 4 months he showed that he’s more than capable of troubling even the best defenders in the pl with his physicality. He also showed many other skills that some forget and now claim he doesn’t have - elegant lay offs and passes that should’ve resulted in at least a couple of assists from Garnacho and Bruno, tenacity in pressing, dribbling and carrying the ball (beating and out sprinting Van der Veen for example), and not least very good movement and finishing, though he was very unlucky to have two or three goals ruled out in the Prem. In that same period he was our top scorer in CL, and he showed remarkable mental strength for a 21 year old not losing his confidence nor his positivity even though his teammates didn’t play him much.
Then the goals came in the PL and his critics were silent until he came back from injury into a totally dysfunctional team. Now it seems the negativity and seemingly toxic environment has got to him. Or maybe he is doubting himself and his runs because the manager doesn’t have a clear style of play. Hard to say, but what we can say is that he hasn’t suddenly become a bad footballer as some seem to think. Also, he comes off as one of the few players who keeps trying and takes responsibility no matter what. That’s more than you can say about our captain for instance.

Summa summarum: Hojlund is a very promising talent and like all other young players he should not be judged as if he was playing for a well drilled, mentally astute team. You have to consider the circumstances and you have to remember what he has actually shown he’s capable off - if you want an accurate assessment and not just get your frustration out, that is.
I mean, if we’re doing condescending then you’ve absolutely got the right guy here.

I’ll try to provide an even shorter summary for you. This is a Rasmus Hojlund performance thread. Those performances have been largely underwhelming, hence the performance reports being largely underwhelming (see Kobbie Mainoo thread for comparison of when a player is performing well).

Hojlund should be judged off of the performances he produces, otherwise close this and reopen it once he has a ‘well drilled, mentally astute team’, maybe in two years, maybe never. He has had good games this season (see reactions in Rasmus Hojlund thread following good games), and had poor games (see reaction following poor games), and some in between where he has shown a few good things. As you said, those are available to read in this thread.

For someone telling me to go and read what has been written, heaven knows where your ‘agents and families’ retort has come from. Also, for someone who wants to talk about cherry-picking and ‘only looking at goals and assists’, that is also nonsense, as I’ve literally said across many threads on RH that he is not producing ANYTHING. I also said that IF, all that were missing was goals and assists, I’d be far less concerned. Do you watch either of his performances against Liverpool in the last month, or Chelsea, or Bournemouth and think to yourself ‘he did everything but score?’. He didn’t do anything at all, including score. He didn’t even manage to miss or nearly score. He didn’t do anything, barely touched the ball. I’ve seen many vitriolic posts directed at Martial for being ‘useless’ after games where he simply barely touched the ball.

I don’t need educating on what it means to be a young and developing player. Garnacho isn’t where we want him to be. Last season, he showed plenty of moments, without being the 20 goal forward we hope him to be at 23. Everyone said he was playing well. I watched Ronaldo here at 18. He was a million miles from the developed Ronaldo he became. He got 5 goals. his decisions were poor. BUT, he was widely praised for his performances. I could go on and on. Martial came to a similarly dysfunctional team at 19 and was several levels above Hojlund. I’m calling Hojlund’s performances this season for what they are, not what I hope them to be, not adjusted for mitigation, simply what they are. He was great in the CL. But he’s had a poor league campaign, despite a purple patch. During that purple patch, posts were positive, now he’s gone back to being poor, guess what has happened? None of this means that he can’t become a top striker in two years. That’s up to him. If he becomes one, then I imagine everyone will say ‘he’s a top class striker’. Right now, he isn’t m, and I would say that he’s not playing at a level of a player even good enough to be starting for us. My hope if that a senior striker comes in this summer and he can then do his apprenticeship and develop into a top striker. But right now, he’s a long way from one.
 

Rozay

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Anyway, we play the worst team in the league tonight, at Old Trafford, so I am hopeful that he will provide a threat. I don’t even demand that he scores. But can he at least miss?! Just do something other than ‘occupy defenders’. Get on the end of something, make space and get a shot off, create something. I hope the act of him putting the ball in the net from the spot on Sunday gets him back in the groove.

On another note, I always felt he should be taking them anyway, if he’s any good at them. He’s the centre forward and trades in goals. He should be on pens.
 

AndySmith1990

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Ok, then you should read the thread. Also, all the explanations you need are found on these pages, so do go have a look.

It sounds like you think we’re his agents or family when it’s really a matter of the level of analysis - do you consider other factors than just goals and assists, do you cherry pick or not and do you have a need for bashing our young players or not.

If you do not bother to read the thread, here’s a short summary for you:

RH has already shown why he’s rated as a special talent in football. His extreme rise from the bench in Denmark to Austria, Italy and us in about a year and a half is not coincidental. From the outset in august and the first 4 months he showed that he’s more than capable of troubling even the best defenders in the pl with his physicality. He also showed many other skills that some forget and now claim he doesn’t have - elegant lay offs and passes that should’ve resulted in at least a couple of assists from Garnacho and Bruno, tenacity in pressing, dribbling and carrying the ball (beating and out sprinting Van der Veen for example), and not least very good movement and finishing, though he was very unlucky to have two or three goals ruled out in the Prem. In that same period he was our top scorer in CL, and he showed remarkable mental strength for a 21 year old not losing his confidence nor his positivity even though his teammates didn’t play him much.
Then the goals came in the PL and his critics were silent until he came back from injury into a totally dysfunctional team. Now it seems the negativity and seemingly toxic environment has got to him. Or maybe he is doubting himself and his runs because the manager doesn’t have a clear style of play. Hard to say, but what we can say is that he hasn’t suddenly become a bad footballer as some seem to think. Also, he comes off as one of the few players who keeps trying and takes responsibility no matter what. That’s more than you can say about our captain for instance.

Summa summarum: Hojlund is a very promising talent and like all other young players he should not be judged as if he was playing for a well drilled, mentally astute team. You have to consider the circumstances and you have to remember what he has actually shown he’s capable off - if you want an accurate assessment and not just get your frustration out, that is.
Hojlund should be judged on his performances, like any other player. If we're going to ignore poor performances what's the point of these threads. It'd just become an echo chamber of delusion.

His performances have largely been rubbish, and I doubt anyone outside of a few United fans have looked at him and thought he's a special talent. He doesn't even look as good as Lakuku at the same age.

Doesn't mean he'll never improve or become a great player. But we can't see the future, we can only judge here on the here and now
 

Lyng

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Hojlund should be judged on his performances, like any other player. If we're going to ignore poor performances what's the point of these threads. It'd just become an echo chamber of delusion.

His performances have largely been rubbish, and I doubt anyone outside of a few United fans have looked at him and thought he's a special talent. He doesn't even look as good as Lakuku at the same age.

Doesn't mean he'll never improve or become a great player. But we can't see the future, we can only judge here on the here and now
Before the injury he finally found form in the league and he was the top scorer in the Champions league when we went out.
He has done very well in spells and badly in spells, exactly what you would expect from a striker of his age.
 

tomaldinho1

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I don’t need educating on what it means to be a young and developing player. Garnacho isn’t where we want him to be. Last season, he showed plenty of moments, without being the 20 goal forward we hope him to be at 23. Everyone said he was playing well. I watched Ronaldo here at 18. He was a million miles from the developed Ronaldo he became. He got 5 goals. his decisions were poor. BUT, he was widely praised for his performances. I could go on and on. Martial came to a similarly dysfunctional team at 19 and was several levels above Hojlund. I’m calling Hojlund’s performances this season for what they are, not what I hope them to be, not adjusted for mitigation, simply what they are. He was great in the CL. But he’s had a poor league campaign, despite a purple patch. During that purple patch, posts were positive, now he’s gone back to being poor, guess what has happened? None of this means that he can’t become a top striker in two years. That’s up to him. If he becomes one, then I imagine everyone will say ‘he’s a top class striker’. Right now, he isn’t m, and I would say that he’s not playing at a level of a player even good enough to be starting for us. My hope if that a senior striker comes in this summer and he can then do his apprenticeship and develop into a top striker. But right now, he’s a long way from one.
Very strange to compare him to Martial though, completely different skillsets. Just because both are broadly attackers doesn't mean they are trying to play the same way. Martial was a very pleasing player to watch which I suspect might have clouded your judgement somewhat because, as much as I love what Martial had, that doesn't mean he had more promise than a less skill/dribbling/take on focused player at all. He's probably had a somewhat disappointing career.

Your point is this 21 year old in his debut season is not a 'top striker', not a particularly hot take...he scored 10 goals, 4 assists in Italy last season, what were you expecting to see? This season he's on 13 goals, 2 assists with 7 in the league. If he can end the season in double figures in the league I think it will have been a decent debut campaign from him. That's in the same team where the main CF last season scored 0 PL goals, we are setup atrociously and goals are a team problem , just as they were before he was here.
 

Rozay

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Very strange to compare him to Martial though, completely different skillsets. Just because both are broadly attackers doesn't mean they are trying to play the same way. Martial was a very pleasing player to watch which I suspect might have clouded your judgement somewhat because, as much as I love what Martial had, that doesn't mean he had more promise than a less skill/dribbling/take on focused player at all. He's probably had a somewhat disappointing career.

Your point is this 21 year old in his debut season is not a 'top striker', not a particularly hot take...he scored 10 goals, 4 assists in Italy last season, what were you expecting to see? This season he's on 13 goals, 2 assists with 7 in the league. If he can end the season in double figures in the league I think it will have been a decent debut campaign from him. That's in the same team where the main CF last season scored 0 PL goals, we are setup atrociously and goals are a team problem , just as they were before he was here.
There’s no clouded judgement - Martial was certainly better than Hojlund when he arrived. He won the Golden Boy award, got into a very competitive French team, and scored some great goals and big goals for us.

My categorising of Hojlund as not being a top striker doesn’t have to be a hot take either. People seem to be confusing this with some sort of competition to either get in early or say the most insightful shit to one up each other. On the contrary, it is a performance thread and I’m simply calling the performances. Could be different next season. The problem seems to have arisen by people taking issue with me calling poor performances, poor performances. They seem to think that because I say he was shot against Chelsea means I am unaware that he’s 21, or it is unfair to say this because (they hope) he won’t be shit against Chelsea at 23. Otherwise, I can’t see any objective assessment of that performance, or a number of others, as anything other than poor performances. There have been a lot of those unfortunately. That’s for Hojlund to work on and improve on, and I’ve never said that he’s incapable of doing that. However, we DO need better than what he is giving us right now. And for those quoting numbers, I’ve said, repeatedly, is that my issue is not with his numbers, but more his complete non-participation in the attack. I’d be far more happy if he was at least missing chances than I am now.

We’re a poor team. But not everyone is playing poorly. Mainoo isn’t, for example. Garnacho isn’t. Dalot isn’t. It’s not mandatory to play poorly, even in this team. Your performances can be limited by others, but at least do the best that you can, which for Hojlund has often not been good enough. His poor hold up play, lack of link up play, and poor movement are personal responsibility. And we were not set up poorly last season. Our striker scored 0 goals because he was terrible. The constant theory at the time is that with a better striker we would improve significantly. People keep referencing how poor the team has been, and it has - but the centre forward in a team is a huge part of it. Hojlund is a contributor to why we have been a poor team. Amongst many positions, centre forward is one of the positions we have not had a good enough performer in the PL this season.
 

Lyng

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There’s no clouded judgement - Martial was certainly better than Hojlund when he arrived. He won the Golden Boy award, got into a very competitive French team, and scored some great goals and big goals for us.

My categorising of Hojlund as not being a top striker doesn’t have to be a hot take either. People seem to be confusing this with some sort of competition to either get in early or say the most insightful shit to one up each other. On the contrary, it is a performance thread and I’m simply calling the performances. Could be different next season. The problem seems to have arisen by people taking issue with me calling poor performances, poor performances. They seem to think that because I say he was shot against Chelsea means I am unaware that he’s 21, or it is unfair to say this because (they hope) he won’t be shit against Chelsea at 23. Otherwise, I can’t see any objective assessment of that performance, or a number of others, as anything other than poor performances. There have been a lot of those unfortunately. That’s for Hojlund to work on and improve on, and I’ve never said that he’s incapable of doing that. However, we DO need better than what he is giving us right now. And for those quoting numbers, I’ve said, repeatedly, is that my issue is not with his numbers, but more his complete non-participation in the attack. I’d be far more happy if he was at least missing chances than I am now.

We’re a poor team. But not everyone is playing poorly. Mainoo isn’t, for example. Garnacho isn’t. Dalot isn’t. It’s not mandatory to play poorly, even in this team. Your performances can be limited by others, but at least do the best that you can, which for Hojlund has often not been good enough. His poor hold up play, lack of link up play, and poor movement are personal responsibility. And we were not set up poorly last season. Our striker scored 0 goals because he was terrible. The constant theory at the time is that with a better striker we would improve significantly. People keep referencing how poor the team has been, and it has - but the centre forward in a team is a huge part of it. Hojlund is a contributor to why we have been a poor team. Amongst many positions, centre forward is one of the positions we have not had a good enough performer in the PL this season.
Part of the problem is that most of the negative posters like yourselves where completely absent during his record breaking spell, which makes it hard to take posts as anything more than people wanting him to fail because he isn't Kane.
Garnacho hades had quite a few bad games lately btw.
And Martial being a bigger talent means little when never developed into the player he could have been .
 

tomaldinho1

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There’s no clouded judgement - Martial was certainly better than Hojlund when he arrived. He won the Golden Boy award, got into a very competitive French team, and scored some great goals and big goals for us.

My categorising of Hojlund as not being a top striker doesn’t have to be a hot take either. People seem to be confusing this with some sort of competition to either get in early or say the most insightful shit to one up each other. On the contrary, it is a performance thread and I’m simply calling the performances. Could be different next season. The problem seems to have arisen by people taking issue with me calling poor performances, poor performances. They seem to think that because I say he was shot against Chelsea means I am unaware that he’s 21, or it is unfair to say this because (they hope) he won’t be shit against Chelsea at 23. Otherwise, I can’t see any objective assessment of that performance, or a number of others, as anything other than poor performances. There have been a lot of those unfortunately. That’s for Hojlund to work on and improve on, and I’ve never said that he’s incapable of doing that. However, we DO need better than what he is giving us right now. And for those quoting numbers, I’ve said, repeatedly, is that my issue is not with his numbers, but more his complete non-participation in the attack. I’d be far more happy if he was at least missing chances than I am now.

We’re a poor team. But not everyone is playing poorly. Mainoo isn’t, for example. Garnacho isn’t. Dalot isn’t. It’s not mandatory to play poorly, even in this team. Your performances can be limited by others, but at least do the best that you can, which for Hojlund has often not been good enough. His poor hold up play, lack of link up play, and poor movement are personal responsibility. And we were not set up poorly last season. Our striker scored 0 goals because he was terrible. The constant theory at the time is that with a better striker we would improve significantly. People keep referencing how poor the team has been, and it has - but the centre forward in a team is a huge part of it. Hojlund is a contributor to why we have been a poor team. Amongst many positions, centre forward is one of the positions we have not had a good enough performer in the PL this season.
It just seems a weird post to dedicate time to with such an obvious point? The guy's role is so different to Martial's role I don't get why you'd ever compare them, hence why it seems you're just going off one being much more of an 'exciting' player.

We've literally seen this team under the same manager last season deploy a CF who scored ZERO league goals, does that not signal at least something to you re the setup being wrong for the CF? Hojlund is raw as feck but I think he's had a decent campaign so far all tings considered. I'm not sure re Mainoo, Garnacho, Dalot playing 'well', they have been our better players but sadly have had a number of stinkers (which is to be expected in the younger ones) but when you field a team with so many young players and then have the injuries (and this isn't even going into the manager) we're kind of where we should be?
 

Rozay

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Part of the problem is that most of the negative posters like yourselves where completely absent during his record breaking spell, which makes it hard to take posts as anything more than people wanting him to fail because he isn't Kane.
Garnacho hades had quite a few bad games lately btw.
And Martial being a bigger talent means little when never developed into the player he could have been .
It’s not THE problem. It’s YOUR problem. You can take the posts any which way you choose.
 

Lyng

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It’s not THE problem. It’s YOUR problem. You can take the posts any which way you choose.
Not my problem. Part of THE problem why discussions on him end up in a weird spot. You comparing him to Martial for example serves little purpose other than remind us all what a disappointment Tony has been.
 

Rozay

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It just seems a weird post to dedicate time to with such an obvious point? The guy's role is so different to Martial's role I don't get why you'd ever compare them, hence why it seems you're just going off one being much more of an 'exciting' player.

We've literally seen this team under the same manager last season deploy a CF who scored ZERO league goals, does that not signal at least something to you re the setup being wrong for the CF? Hojlund is raw as feck but I think he's had a decent campaign so far all tings considered. I'm not sure re Mainoo, Garnacho, Dalot playing 'well', they have been our better players but sadly have had a number of stinkers (which is to be expected in the younger ones) but when you field a team with so many young players and then have the injuries (and this isn't even going into the manager) we're kind of where we should be?
It’s not weird at all. There is no post of mine ‘dedicated’ to pointing out that Martial was better than Hojlund was first year. It is a point that you extracted from a post saying a number of things. I apologise that the only other recent example of a young centre forward coming into a struggling Manchester United team does not play exactly identically to Hojlund - but Martial is what I have. And as he showed, it is not impossible to show more. That’s all.

The point is, you think Hojlund has had a decent season, as you put it, and are struggling with the fact that I think he’s had a largely poor one. I’ve tried to provide my reason as best I could, so nothing more for me to say. He hasn’t gotten involved in the football match nearly enough for the one centre forward on the pitch for me, and has had too many invisible games. He had a great run, which was unfortunately interrupted by an injury, but he’s not injured anymore and hasn’t been able to get it back, so I’m not speaking of that run in the manner I would if it were still ongoing. He’s been dreadful since his return. Anyone who has watched any of his games since he has come back from injury and decided they are anything other than poor are just forcing positivity. Which is their prerogative, but this isn’t a point scoring exercise, and no points are given out for just saying nice things. In this recent run since the international break - we’ve played well for large spells of games and dropped key points. We’ve scored goals too. We’ve done that all, largely, without much help from our striker, and if Hojlund had been at it we might have even gotten a few more points.

He barely seems to get a shot away. And when he’s not, it’s not as if he’s still involved with the play much. He’s been easy to handle for defences lately. I’ve not condemned that to his permanent fate, but I’m also not going to deny that’s what it is. Whether it is just that ‘for now’ remains to be seen. I expect it will improve, as he’s had better games even this season, and as you said, the team has plenty room for improvement too. But we are not getting enough from our striker currently, I have no idea how anyone could have watched us of late and decided that we are.
 

Rozay

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Not my problem. Part of THE problem why discussions on him end up in a weird spot. You comparing him to Martial for example serves little purpose other than remind us all what a disappointment Tony has been.
For YOU. And also serves to highlight wilful lack of comprehension. I say wilful because I’m giving you the credit. I KNOW that you can read, and I know that should you choose to understand the point about Martial - you can do. It wasn’t exactly coded. That Martial came into a struggling side as a young striker and performed well is the entire point. I’m giving you the credit of assuming that you are, deep down, quite aware that Martial’s performance at 26 has zero relevance, which is why it wasn’t mentioned by me. You are saying that to deflect and distract. Not to mention you haven’t exactly seen any better performances from Hojlund as a 26 year old either, so there’s nothing to say he will become any better than Martial when he’s older. As young players, Martial was better. It is possible to play better than Hojlund is playing now. Even for a young player.

Stop making excuses for footballers not playing well. Just because a player plays rubbish, saying so doesn’t mean you have put yourself in some sort of ‘detractors’ camp, and it doesn’t mean the player will aways play rubbish. That’s up to them to show.

Calling Hojlund’s recent performances anything other than poor puts discussion in a ‘weird spot’, and calls into question the credibility of anyone far more than anything I’ve posted on the matter.
 

Lyng

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For YOU. And also serves to highlight wilful lack of comprehension. I say wilful because I’m giving you the credit. I KNOW that you can read, and I know that should you choose to understand the point about Martial - you can do. It wasn’t exactly coded. That Martial came into a struggling side as a young striker and performed well is the entire point. I’m giving you the credit of assuming that you are, deep down, quite aware that Martial’s performance at 26 has zero relevance, which is why it wasn’t mentioned by me. You are saying that to deflect and distract. Not to mention you haven’t exactly seen any better performances from Hojlund as a 26 year old either, so there’s nothing to say he will become any better than Martial when he’s older. As young players, Martial was better. It is possible to play better than Hojlund is playing now. Even for a young player.

Stop making excuses for footballers not playing well. Just because a player plays rubbish, saying so doesn’t mean you have put yourself in some sort of ‘detractors’ camp, and it doesn’t mean the player will aways play rubbish. That’s up to them to show.

Calling Hojlund’s recent performances anything other than poor puts discussion in a ‘weird spot’, and calls into question the credibility of anyone far more than anything I’ve posted on the matter.
The side Martial joined was off a higher quality than this side Id argue.
Martial was a massive talent and a bigger talent than Højlund yes.
There is one huge issue with not looking at what happened with Martial after his debut though, and that is with young players you are always gambling. Martial ended up being an absolute dud in the end. He is utterly useless. That is partly his fault but I also put a ton of blame on the terrible managers and the structure at the club.
Højlund might end up as a dud to, though he has seems to have a much stronger mentality than Martial.

Rasmus has been very bad efter his injury. Prior to that injury he was very good for a spell and even broke the record with 7 in 7. He was the champions league top scorer when we went out. Despite being in a team that has massive issues scoring. Most of his goals have been self made.
Weghorst who is a much more experienced striker scored 0 goals in the Premier League. He was slow of course, but it does say something when a striker that has previously not had 0 goal seasons suddenly does. We are absolutely terrible at creating for a striker.
Its absolutely fair to criticise a player after a bad performance, but a lot of posts here basically boil down to "he is shit, I knew it".
Claiming he has had a bad season is a fair take if you completely remove any context. By that metric every single player on our team is utter shite and has had a terrible season.
If you add context of age, tactics and overall team performance he has had a decent first season with some very bad spells and some very good spells mixed among each other.
 

tomaldinho1

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It’s not weird at all. There is no post of mine ‘dedicated’ to pointing out that Martial was better than Hojlund was first year. It is a point that you extracted from a post saying a number of things. I apologise that the only other recent example of a young centre forward coming into a struggling Manchester United team does not play exactly identically to Hojlund - but Martial is what I have. And as he showed, it is not impossible to show more. That’s all.

The point is, you think Hojlund has had a decent season, as you put it, and are struggling with the fact that I think he’s had a largely poor one. I’ve tried to provide my reason as best I could, so nothing more for me to say. He hasn’t gotten involved in the football match nearly enough for the one centre forward on the pitch for me, and has had too many invisible games. He had a great run, which was unfortunately interrupted by an injury, but he’s not injured anymore and hasn’t been able to get it back, so I’m not speaking of that run in the manner I would if it were still ongoing. He’s been dreadful since his return. Anyone who has watched any of his games since he has come back from injury and decided they are anything other than poor are just forcing positivity. Which is their prerogative, but this isn’t a point scoring exercise, and no points are given out for just saying nice things. In this recent run since the international break - we’ve played well for large spells of games and dropped key points. We’ve scored goals too. We’ve done that all, largely, without much help from our striker, and if Hojlund had been at it we might have even gotten a few more points.

He barely seems to get a shot away. And when he’s not, it’s not as if he’s still involved with the play much. He’s been easy to handle for defences lately. I’ve not condemned that to his permanent fate, but I’m also not going to deny that’s what it is. Whether it is just that ‘for now’ remains to be seen. I expect it will improve, as he’s had better games even this season, and as you said, the team has plenty room for improvement too. But we are not getting enough from our striker currently, I have no idea how anyone could have watched us of late and decided that we are.
Well you could compare him to the other strikers we've signed who have played in the same team, it's not really about only comparing him to younger players? It seems pointless to compare him to Martial at 19 years old in the 15/16 season who played a lot off the left and also has a completely different style of play to him? That's regardless of if you think he's crap or if he's great, it just is a weak comparison.

Just in the PL given it seems you agree he was very good in the CL. These are players playing in the same team, same manager, playing against predominantly the same opposition.

Ronaldo. 1 goal in 10.
Weghorst. 0 in 17.
Martial (who was by then a pure CF). 6 in 21.
Hojlund. 7 in 24.

So it's hardly the best debut season ever but it's decent enough. Then you add in his age compared to those others. Then you add in he's a) been injured and also joined us late after he was injured when we signed him so no pre season. Then you add in he was very good in the CL. I don't struggle with you thinking he's been poor, you can think what you like, I just think it's a strange conclusion to draw from watching him as he's basically had the type of erratic season most expected him to have but, with the key point being, you don't score that many CL goals and have that run in the PL by being a poor player.

I agree he's too easy to mark for CBs, partly because what is he expected to do differently when there's so little service? But also that knowledge of movement comes in time and experience. He's in his 1st full season of top flight football and you only need to glance over at 115FC to see how much Haaland, an obviously superior 9 in a superior team, struggles on the rare days they don't get him service. Hojlund has that weekly.