Redcafe Champions League Draft Final! - Theon v Gio

[Theon]

Formation

A 4-3-2-1 formation popular in Serie A domestically (Roma, AC Milan) and some of the greatest International sides – such as the 1998 World Cup winning French team.

Unmatched proven partnerships that Gio cannot compete with:

The AC Milan backline – particularly Cafu/Nesta/Maldini who were part of the most formidable defence since the 1980’s

The Italian core in midfield - De Rossi/Gattuso/Pirlo have won Champions Leagues, reached the final of Euro 2012 and won the 2006 World Cup playing together in similar systems

The Spanish duo of Xavi/Iniesta – One of the most natural partnerships of all time, the two playmakers have a telepathic understanding

As with the diamond, 4-2-2-2 or any 5-4-1 variation this system lacks obvious width and specific players are absolutely necessary to make it effective

1) Fullbacks who provide width

Cafu and Maldini have stretched the pitch throughout their career in wingerless systems for Roma/Milan/Brazil and Italy.

Cafu is the greatest attacking fullback of all time and has provided width in various narrow setups. Roma won Serie A, Milan won the Champions League and Brazil won the World Cup playing wingerless formations with Cafu providing the width.

A young Cafu against Argentina when still playing in Brazil


2) Central midfielders to press in wider areas

In Gattuso and De Rossi I could not pick a more ideal pairing as both have played this exact role in the diamond formation. Gattuso in particular remains the greatest and most ruthless ballwinner I have ever seen, dominating the midfield for both Italy and Milan

The Italians will press all over the pitch and win possession, both having the stamina and work ethic to perform the work of two men.


How the game is won – DEFENCE

1) Make Gio defend
This is the most important area which gives my team the edge - Gio is not suited to sitting deep and cedeing territory as it doesn't get the best out of his attackers and will isolate Messi

In Xavi/Iniesta/Pirlo the team will dominate the ball and force Gio to soak up pressure - if he tries to push up any one of Xavi, Iniesta or Pirlo is capable of playing a through ball to Ronaldo and it is a certain goal.

My team has a clear weakness in the number of attackers which I accept - however the opposite point is that I have a far better midfield and control of the game. Gio needs to sit deep and be patient but this will completely isolate Messi

When he tries to break he lacks a forward to hold the ball up and his best players are marked by some of the greatest defenders of all time.

Linked to this is point 2

2) Cut the supply to Messi
Messi thrives in a Barcelona system that dominates the possession and territorial control, but for Argentina his record is far worse at only 0.46 goals per game

Gio does not possess the same level of playmaker in his midfield and most of his creativity needs to come from Ronaldinho and Rivaldo, but they are facing a ruthless set of fullbacks and two of the best ballwinners of the decade - Messi will not have the possession dominance to effect the game the way he does for Barcelona

3) Maldini vs Ronaldinho
Dictating the defence is Paolo Maldini without question the greatest fullback of all time - captain of the Italian national team and leader of Milan’s defence for over 20 years in which he incredibly won the Champions League a record five times.

Ronaldinho is the creative force in Gio’s team but he is up against the ultimate left back in Maldini and his influence will be negated.

4) Nesta et al vs Messi
Even when Messi does get possession or drops deep to pick up the ball he is playing in an absolutely packed midfield and defence – the clear strength of narrow formations.

The 4-3-2-1 weakness in attack of lacking width is its strength in defence.

If Messi does dribbles through or gets played in by Ronaldinho he is facing the best centre back since Baresi in Nesta.

ATTACK

1) Complete dominance of possession
Pirlo, Xavi and Iniesta are arguably the three best possession footballers of all time.

Pirlo - Will sit just behind the two CM’s and utilise his fantastic passing ability to feed balls down the flanks to Cafu and Maldini, or through the midfield to Iniesta/Xavi/Ronaldo

Xavi – His passing range is typically shorter than Pirlo’s and his role is focused around completely controlling the game and linking up with Iniesta, whilst playing assists through to Ronaldo

Footage of some Xavi assists which Ronaldo will thrive off


2) Exploit Vidic’s lack of pace
Vidic is a great defender but his lack of pace and agility can be exposed.

Ronaldo is on another level to anything Vidic has ever faced – he was absolutely lightning and could dribble the ball at exceptional speeds. If Gio tries to press my midfield and win the ball Vidic has no chance of keeping up with any through balls from midfield

3) Iniesta in a free role
Iniesta will drift across the pitch into space whilst Pirlo fizzes the ball into his feet, allowing him to turn and cause chaos with his boundless creativity and unmatched dribbling ability.

The free role of Iniesta makes the most of his exceptional dribbling skills as he run rings around Silva


4) Ronaldo - supplied by Pirlo/Xavi/Iniesta
Ronaldo 1996-1998 reached a level of brilliance that is only rivalled by Messi, Maradonna and Pele. His combination of pace, skill and unmatched dribbling will be a nightmare for Gio defence.

Peak Ronaldo is arguably the best striker of all time and he is being supplied by the three best playmakers of modern times - Pirlo, Xavi and Iniesta

My tactic for this game is simply to dominate possession, stretch the pitch with Maldini and Cafu, and constantly look for assists for Ronaldo

This video is a must watch for anyone who missed Ronaldo at the peak of his powers - 1996 season – all 47 goals in 49 games

 

[Theon]

PLAYER PROFILES

Manuel Neuer
The best goalkeeper in the world and former Footballer of the Year in Germany. Put in a flawless performance against Dortmund in the Champions League Final and with his huge 6 ft 4 frame is the perfect foil against Drogba.

Cafu
Without a doubt the best attacking fullback in the draft and arguably of all time. Winning domestic and Continental titles as well as two World Cup’s with Brazil establish Cafu as a true icon of the modern era. Blessed with limitless stamina he will get up and down the right flank the entire game.

Maldini
The consensus best defender of the last two decades.

Maldini was consistently brilliant for over 20 years captaining AC Milan to unprecedented success and winning a record five Champions League titles. For a nation that has seen Baresi, Scirea and Facchetti wear the Azzurri shirt it says it all that Maldini is regarded just as highly as any of them.

Thiago Silva
Currently the best defender in the world and captain of the Brazil team. Thiago possesses an abundance of pace which is vital against EDogen who will be heavily reliant on the counter.

Nesta
The best centre back since Baresi and top 3 or 4 of all time - slotting into a familiar partnership with Thiago who he won Serie A with in a dominating partnership

He is tasked with keeping Messi as quiet as possible and there is noone better for the task, an absolute master in defence

Pirlo
The greatest deeplying playmaker of all time, Pirlo will control the game with his exquisite vision and passing. Also one of the most deadly free kicks takers in the world.

Gattuso
Without a doubt the best tackling midfielder that I have seen, his ball winning is simply unmatched. The fire and mentality of Gattuso combined with his limitless stamina are the perfect compliment to the artistry of Andrea Pirlo.

In linking up with Pirlo Gattuso is forming a midfield partnership that has won countless titles domestically and in Europe with Milan, as well as the 2006 World Cup with Italy.

De Rossi
An absolute colossus of a midfielder with one of the most all rounded games of the decade. Physically imposing with the mentality for a war, De Rossi also possesses sublime passing ability as seen in this MOTM performance against Spain – proving De Rossi can dominate the worlds greatest sides.

Xavi - The best midfielder of his generation and greatest playmaker of all time

With Iniesta playing just next to him the two Spaniards provide the most proven partnership of the last twenty years.

Iniesta
Technically flawless and unquestionably the best attacking midfielder since Zidane. Iniesta is a big game player, putting in a MOTM performance in both the 2010 World Cup Final and the Euro 2012 Final, as well as being named Player of the Tournament.

Ronaldo
His peak in 1996-1998 is absolutely unmatched. Explosive pace, power, balance, technique and extraordinary dribbling ability.

If it weren’t for the injuries at Inter Milan Ronaldo would quite possibly be regarded as the greatest footballer of all time.

Subs

Miguel Nadal
The heart of Barcelona’s defence and captain of Spain, Nadal was a natural leader with immense physicality.

Candela
Cafu’s wingback partner at Roma, Candela has terrific stamina, pace and dribbling ability. He performed best when asked to cover the entire left side of the pitch which allowed him to fully utilise his attacking instincts. Along with Cafu Candela was an instrumental reason for Roma winning Serie A in 2000/01.

Also capable of scoring goals like this.

Crespo
Perennially at risk of being underrated due to his Chelsea and Milan stints, injuries stalled Crespo’s career and prevented him maintaining his four years of form at Parma and Lazio which made him one of the deadliest strikers of the last 20 years.

Sergio Aguero
Excellent at running the channels and peeling out wide, Aguero is capable of coming on later on in the match to exploit a slow backline with his explosive pace and movement

Shevchenko
Voted the best player in Europe when playing for Milan, he is undoubtedly one of the greatest strikers of the Champions League era. Playing in his natural role in a formation he is familiar with he is a huge threat.

Kluivert
Despite an impressive career, numerous titles and the status of Holland’s all time top scorer (ahead of Van Basten, Ruud, Bergkamp and Van Persie) Kluivert’s natural ability could have made him become one of the all time greats.

Team Theon​

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Substitution - Xavi off Shevchenko on​

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Spoiler

 

[Theon]

Vs​

Team Gio​

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Substitution - Fabregas off Romario on​

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Spoiler

Tactics:
A fluid and robust 4-3-3 which recognises and counters the strength of Theon's diamond while posing unanswerable questions of its own.


How the game will be won:

• Down the flanks. We will own the flanks in this game - it will essentially be a case of Zanetti, Zambrotta, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo against Cafu and Maldini. Gattuso and De Rossi will do their best to support, but as they come out that leaves Pirlo anchoring a midfield against Ronaldinho, Rivaldo and a roaming Messi.
• The full-backs will dictate this game benefiting from more time on the ball than anyone else. Zanetti in particular will have a field day moving forward, isolating De Rossi, pulling Iniesta out of his position, and linking up with Ronaldinho and Fabregas. Inevitably it's not gung-ho Keegan-style football: when Zanetti pushes forward, Zambrotta and Mauro Silva will tuck in to ensure adequate cover, but doing so in a way which will take several of Theon's team out of the game.
• The interplay between Lionel Messi, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo will be orgasmic to watch. There is not a defence in the history of the game that will be able to deal with these three at their peak. They will roam and interchange, pulling Pirlo all over the shop and whoever starts out of Thiago Silva and Candela will have a tough time of it.
• Cancelling out Theon through the centre. Mauro Silva has unfussily dealt with players of Iniesta's calibre many times in the past. He will sit in the middle, protect the defence, limit what Ronaldo and Shevchenko can take into feet, and do a job on Iniesta. With Theon set up to play through the centre, this game is custom-designed for him to dominate. Vieira and Fabregas will go head-to-head with Gattuso and De Rossi, while Rivaldo and Ronaldinho's presence and positioning will prevent Pirlo's possession game having any realistic outlet. In defence, Ferdinand and Vidic are proven and of the highest calibre and with support from Zanetti and Zambrotta can defend narrow and compactly to squeeze the space for Ronaldo.
• Strength in reserve. Romario and Pavel Nedved are chomping on the bit on a stacked bench and may well make an appearance to punish tiring legs in the second half.

 

[Theon]

PLAYER PROFILES

Claudio Taffarel
Almost flawless at three World Cups for Brazil as he racked up 101 caps for the Selecao. Expert at pulling off big saves when it mattered most, see his penalty shoot-out stops against Holland (1998 World Cup Semi-Final) and Italy (1994 World Cup Final), his fantastic save from a Thierry Henry header in the UEFA Cup Final or even this save-of-the-tournament in the last minute of the group stages against Scotland (had that gone in we would've qualified for the knockout stages for the first time in our history - you cnut Taffarel).

Javier Zanetti
Along with Thuram and Cafu from this generation, he is one of the greatest right-backs of all time. Probably the most complete player of the last 20 years bringing together physical (check out the size of those thighs), technical (gifted user of the ball, as shown by his finish against England in '98) and mental (versatile, consistent and even at 37 see his snuffing out of a prime Messi in the 2010 CL semi-final) attributes into one supreme package.

Rio Ferdinand
The Premiership's outstanding defender and the best centre-back in the world between 2006 and 2008. Complete centre-half who thrives next to a hardman like Montero in the mould of a Vidic, Terry or Campbell.

Nemanja Vidic
Dominant centre-half who renews his proven partnership with Ferdinand.

Paolo Montero
Uncompromising, left-footed and classy, Montero complements Ferdinand and Zambrotta perfectly. A key component of the great 1990s and early 2000s Juventus sides. Very highly rated in South America, he was a huge influence on the success of the Uruguayan national team.

Gianluca Zambrotta
Another member of that great Juventus side who also counts Barcelona and AC Milan amongst his employers. Excelled internationally at Euro 2004 and World Cup 2006 where in both instances he was named in the official team of the tournament. Only five Italians have more internationals caps than the all-rounder Zambrotta who was reliable and capable on either flank or in midfield.

Patrick Vieira
Over a decade on from their peaks Keane and Vieira remain the gold standard amongst central midfielders.

Cesc Fabregas
From 2008 to 2012 Fabregas was the Premiership's outstanding midfielder, racking up more assists than any other midfielder in Europe. Precociously gifted with a penetrating eye for a pass.

Mauro Silva
Along with Dunga, Brazil's most influential central midfielder of the last 30 years. Together their midfield-anchoring ability changed the way Brazil played with a host of copycat-but-not-quite-so-good midfielders following in their considerable footsteps. At club level, Mauro Silva remains a legend at Deportivo and it's no coincidence that his time at the club aligns exactly with the rise and best years of Super Depor.

Nobody could get through Brazil in 1994 as they kept 5 clean sheets in 7 matches (essentially 6 out of 7 for Mauro who left the fray prior to Sweden's equaliser in a group stage dead rubber). With Silva absent in 1998, they managed just 1 in 7 as opposing attacking midfielders had a field day (Zidane, Laudrup, Jorgensen all netting). Many La Liga followers will remember his display in the Copa del Rey final against Real Madrid, a match effectively set up to celebrate Madrid's centenary and the inevitable victory of Perez's all-conquering Galacticos. Silva spoiled the party with one of the great defensive midfield performances, his domination such that Zidane and Raul were reduced to taking petulant swipes after they were dispossessed for the umpteenth time.

Pavel Nedved
Goalscoring midfielder brimming with energy and commitment. His repertoire of goals in Serie A was exceptional such was his ability to find the net from long range. Two-footed and aggressive, he inspired Juventus to the CL final in 2002-03, only to miss the match as a result of suspension. No less of a legend on the international stage as his talismanic performances at Euro 1996 and 2004 testify.

Rivaldo
Between Maradona and Messi, nobody bettered the peak that Rivaldo achieved with Barcelona and Brazil (Ronaldinho and Ronaldo hit similar zeniths). Possessor of one of the greatest and most multi-faceted left-feet the game has ever seen, he was a scintillating and talismanic match-winner between 1998 and 2002. His hat-trick against Valencia on the last day of the 2000/01 season remains one of, if not the greatest performances in the history of the game.

Ronaldinho
Phenomenal talent who was head and shoulders above everybody else between 2003 and 2006. Extraordinary dribbler, inventive passer and deadly from distance. His manipulation of the ball in tight spaces is unmatched in this draft.

Romario
Easily the most devastating penalty-box striker since Muller, his low centre of gravity, ability to turn on a six-pence and blistering acceleration ensured no defender could live with him.

Lionel Messi
The best since Maradona and a contender for the greatest of all time, whether scoring freely through the middle or laying a trail of destruction through his dribbling from the right.

Michael Owen
Embarrassed an array of world-class defenders during his career thanks to his blistering pace and always reliable finishing - particularly on the biggest stages. Plundered a hat-trick the last time he faced Oliver Kahn.

Roy Makaay
Gifted forward who was both a great goalscorer and a scorer of great goals. 108 goals in just three seasons while at Deportivo and Bayern testify to his onion-bag-rattling ability. Normally deployed as the lone frontman in Irureta's 4-2-3-1, or occasionally wide right in recognition of his rounded skillset, Makaay was excellent at finishing from range with both feet, while a 6ft 2' frame made him a potent threat in the air.

Joaquin
Between the fall of Figo and the rise of Ronaldo, Joaquin was the outstanding right-winger in Europe. Orthodox winger who was Spain's best player at the 2002 World Cup and wasfantastic for Betis, a level he did not maintain at Valencia and Malaga. In his peak form (2002-2005) likely to get the better of a number of the weaker left-backs in the draft.

 

[Theon]

The word count is a right pain in the arse when making these threads

I need to get off now so good luck Gio - really is an immense team that you have put together.

My lads have their work cut out and its going to take some top class Italian defending to come through this game as winners!

Our whole game is based around dominating the ball and feeding Ronaldo, without the ball we will keep it tight at the back with De Rossi and Gattuso being two of the best defensive midfielders of the era, and then when in possession Xavi/Iniesta/Pirlo will try and control the game before releasing Ronaldo with a through ball behind Vidic


One last video - A 35 year old Nesta against a prime Messi

 

[Gio]

While Theon's got a strong defence, I'd probably challenge this comment:

The AC Milan backline – particularly Cafu/Nesta/Maldini who were part of the most formidable defence since the 1980’s

The Milan defence of the early 1990s was a fair bit better than Milan's 2000s back line. In fact Manchester United's defence with Ferdinand and Vidic at the helm conceded less goals than Milan's with Nesta, Cafu and Maldini, all the while with less protection than what was afforded to Milan. Throw in Zanetti and Zambrotta in place of Brown and Evra, and that's a hell of a strong back line.

 

[Red-Indian]

Dropping Shevchenko for Xavi is a strange move. Theon's totally dependent on Ronaldo for goals while Gio has Messi, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo all supreme goal scorers with Fabregas able to chip in better than Iniesta ever has.

I don't see how Theon can outscore Gio in the setup he currently has. Best he can hope for is a draw.

 

[Gio]

Dropping Shevchenko for Xavi is a strange move. Theon's totally dependent on Ronaldo for goals while Gio has Messi, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo all supreme goal scorers with Fabregas able to chip in better than Iniesta ever has.

I don't see how Theon can outscore Gio in the setup he currently has. Best he can hope for is a draw.

I can understand the need to increase his share of possession, but if it's at the expense of genuine goal threat then is it worth it? Ronaldo is the solitary goal threat in my eyes - and he's dealing with Ferdinand and Vidic. Iniesta has never reached double figures in a season in his career, Xavi got 10 once (La Liga 11/12) and nobody else in the starting XI anywhere near.

I think we've got a stronger balance between a robust defence and midfield that will be tremendously hard to break down, combined with a genuine goal threat from Ronaldinho, Messi, Rivaldo and Fabregas.

 

[Theon]

Dropping Shevchenko for Xavi is a strange move. Theon's totally dependent on Ronaldo for goals while Gio has Messi, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo all supreme goal scorers with Fabregas able to chip in better than Iniesta ever has.

I don't see how Theon can outscore Gio in the setup he currently has. Best he can hope for is a draw.

That's not fully true but I accepted the point in the OP - I knew that and it was a sacrifice/decision I made

As I said here the game is 100% based around feeding Ronaldo chances, which with Xavi/Iniesta/Pirlo is going to happen time and time again -

"Our whole game is based around dominating the ball and feeding Ronaldo, without the ball we will keep it tight at the back with De Rossi and Gattuso being two of the best defensive midfielders of the era, and then when in possession Xavi/Iniesta/Pirlo will try and control the game before releasing Ronaldo with a through ball behind Vidic"


Fabregas isn't playing as an AM here so his goals won't factor in as much as Iniesta's and Xavi's would, you're also forgetting Pirlo and De Rossi who are both 1 in 10 players.

The fact is though that Ronaldo is absolutely the primary scorer, but he's the best goalscorer on the pitch and he's being fed by the three best playmakers in the draft. He'll get countless chances to score.

 

[Thisistheone]

The perfect final. The two best teams from the drafting process imo.

Early thoughts: Theon will take the lion's share of possession. Gio may have a problem getting tight on Pirlo. But looking at both sides, I see more goals in Gio's team...perhaps.

 

[Theon]

nobody else in the starting XI anywhere near.

De Rossi scored 11 in 09-10

 

[Gio]

The fact is though that Ronaldo is absolutely the primary scorer, but he's the best goalscorer on the pitch and he's being fed by the three best playmakers in the draft. He'll get countless chances to score.

I'd probably argue that the best goalscorer is sat on my bench, but in terms of the 22 on the pitch there is this man to consider:

 

[Theon]

The way I see it we have:

The much better goalkeeper

The better defence

The better midfield

And a lesser, but still ruthless attack - no side with Ronaldo being supplied by Xavi/Pirlo/Iniesta is going to lack chances - especially considering our possession dominance

 

[Theon]

I'd probably argue that the best goalscorer is sat on my bench, but in terms of the 22 on the pitch there is this man to consider:

Aye good shout on Romario, he's a more ruthless finisher than Ronaldo I agree

Messi isn't though

 

[Skorenzy]

The word count is a right pain in the arse when making these threads

I need to get off now so good luck Gio - really is an immense team that you have put together.

My lads have their work cut out and its going to take some top class Italian defending to come through this game as winners!

Our whole game is based around dominating the ball and feeding Ronaldo, without the ball we will keep it tight at the back with De Rossi and Gattuso being two of the best defensive midfielders of the era, and then when in possession Xavi/Iniesta/Pirlo will try and control the game before releasing Ronaldo with a through ball behind Vidic


One last video - A 35 year old Nesta against a prime Messi

It's true that Nesta kept his own against him quite well, but for the most part I remember Messi giving them a hard time, I seem to recall some sort of ridiculous last-ditch karate lunge from Nesta on Messi in one of those encounters. And then the great man himself said this:

Nesta said that Messi made the difference. "With respect to the other great Barcelona players, I think Messi did at least 70% of the work tonight," said the former Italian international. "Whenever they struggled to make their possession tell, he made one of his runs, making it so difficult for us because he does it so many times during a game."

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=1779524.html

 

[Theon]

I have to say though that this was a problem I knew and accepted, so I'm not trying to deny the criticisms which are 100% valid

My point though is that if you actually look at the team there is clearly an unrivalled amount of creativity in there, which is all focused on supplying Ronaldo who in his prime was quite possibly the best striker of all time

 

[Theon]

It's true that Nesta kept his own against him quite well, but for the most part I remember Messi giving them a hard time, I seem to recall some sort of ridiculous last-ditch karate lunge from Nesta on Messi in one of those encounters.

Nesta was 35 at this point, so he was well past his peak after suffering from injuries and losing his pace - but he still went toe to toe with a prime Messi

 

[Red-Indian]

That's not fully true but I accepted the point in the OP - I knew that and it was a sacrifice/decision I made

As I said here the game is 100% based around feeding Ronaldo chances, which with Xavi/Iniesta/Pirlo is going to happen time and time again -

"Our whole game is based around dominating the ball and feeding Ronaldo, without the ball we will keep it tight at the back with De Rossi and Gattuso being two of the best defensive midfielders of the era, and then when in possession Xavi/Iniesta/Pirlo will try and control the game before releasing Ronaldo with a through ball behind Vidic"


Fabregas isn't playing as an AM here so his goals won't factor in as much as Iniesta's and Xavi's would, you're also forgetting Pirlo and De Rossi who are both 1 in 10 players.

The fact is though that Ronaldo is absolutely the primary scorer, but he's the best goalscorer on the pitch and he's being fed by the three best playmakers in the draft. He'll get countless chances to score.

Fair enough. The problem I see though is that it'll be an extremely congested midfield (5 of yours and 3 of his mixing it up in there) so there won't be a huge number of chances. Gio's has the opportunity though to find an outball to one of his three individual magicians who can take it on their own from there. You'll have the lion's share of the possession but a single outball with two great defenders keeping tabs on him.

If he had a distributor of the quality of Pirlo or Scholes, the game would be over right there. It would be a devastating counter-attacking side. It's only the fact that his best distributor is Fabregas who's good but not in that top bracket that gives you a chance in my opinion.

 

[Gio]

There is a lot of creativity there, but it's a case of diminishing returns once you've got more than one playmaker in there. Pirlo, Xavi and Iniesta in the same midfield may well be overkill, while Xavi is in many ways uncomfortable behind the striker as he showed with some decent but not great performances in 2010 and 2012 for Spain.

 

[Skorenzy]

This one?

Nesta was 35 at this point, so he was well past his peak after suffering from injuries and losing his pace - but he still went toe to toe with a prime Messi

No, I meant where he fouled him by hooking his leg around Messi's body from behind because that was the only way he could stop him. But anyway, the key is in what Nesta said, that Messi does these runs so often in a game which means that he's bound to get through once in a while.

Also re: your previous post about your creativity being geared towards Ronaldo. That's nice in theory, but when there's only one focal point it's far easier to defend against.

 

[Moby]

Impossible to decide. Sitting on the fence.

 

[Theon]

Fair enough. The problem I see though is that it'll be an extremely congested midfield (5 of yours and 3 of his mixing it up in there) so there won't be a huge number of chances. Gio's has the opportunity though to find an outball to one of his three individual magicians who can take it on their own from there. You'll have the lion's share of the possession but a single outball with two great defenders keeping tabs on him.

If he had a distributor of the quality of Pirlo or Scholes, the game would be over right there. It would be a devastating counter-attacking side. It's only the fact that his best distributor is Fabregas who's good but not in that top bracket that gives you a chance in my opinion.

I think this is pretty fair, like I say I can't try and argue against Ronaldo being the main goalscorer because its just a fact

Iniesta can take it on his own though, where you say Gio can supply Ronaldinho on the right for example, I can do the same with Iniesta who is just as effective a dribbler and he can carve out chances by running at Vidic/Rio.

 

[Gio]

Fair enough. The problem I see though is that it'll be an extremely congested midfield (5 of yours and 3 of his mixing it up in there) so there won't be a huge number of chances. Gio's has the opportunity though to find an outball to one of his three individual magicians who can take it on their own from there. You'll have the lion's share of the possession but a single outball with two great defenders keeping tabs on him.

If he had a distributor of the quality of Pirlo or Scholes, the game would be over right there. It would be a devastating counter-attacking side. It's only the fact that his best distributor is Fabregas who's good but not in that top bracket that gives you a chance in my opinion.

What I would say about Fabregas is that his role in this team is much the same he excelled in at Arsenal. Raking, counter-attacking passes from deep, then getting on the end of the return. That's why he's such a clean fit for this team and would be less of a straightforward choice for Theon's tiki-taka approach for example.

 

[Theon]

Fabregas is playing in a congested midfield against 5 midfielders - he is going to get smothered and he isn't a player like Scholes, Pirlo or Xavi who can tika takka there way around it.

In the last two seasons before Fabregas left for Barcelona it was Arsenal/Barca in the Champions League and in virtually every tie he was lost, Wilshere outperformed him by a mile in the last one IIRC.

 

[Theon]

Good game this Gio!

 

[Red-Indian]

I think this is pretty fair, like I say I can't try and argue against Ronaldo being the main goalscorer because its just a fact

Iniesta can take it on his own though, where you say Gio can supply Ronaldinho on the right for example, I can do the same with Iniesta who is just as effective a dribbler and he can carve out chances by running at Vidic/Rio.

Sorry what I meant by take it from there is that they'll dribble AND finish. Iniesta can do the first brilliantly but he hasn't got a great track record on the second. Personally I think you have to choose between Pirlo and Xavi. There's excellent arguments for both. Pirlo with his familiarity with the diamond as well as Rossi/Gattuso versus the Xavi-Iniesta combination which could lay fair claim to being one of the most telepathic midfield combinations in history. As it stands, it seems a worse passing overkill than Barcelona who at least play someone direct like Villa, Pedro or even Fabregas in addition to Messi.

 

[Theon]

Ronaldo vs Rio Ferdinand

One of the greatest performances Old Trafford has ever witnessed - Ronaldo gets a standing ovation from the United fans

 

[Skorenzy]

There is a lot of creativity there, but it's a case of diminishing returns once you've got more than one playmaker in there. Pirlo, Xavi and Iniesta in the same midfield may well be overkill, while Xavi is in many ways uncomfortable behind the striker as he showed with some decent but not great performances in 2010 and 2012 for Spain.

I voted for your team because I think it's structured more purposefully than Theon's (esp. the midfield) and I don't really see enough of a goal threat on his side. I do have some questions about the use of Messi, as a playmaker his trademark outball is a diagonal to the left flank, but I can't really see Zambrotta being adept enough to make these kinds of runs and neither Ronaldinho or Rivaldo are renowned for running behind the defence. The Messi-Zanetti combo has lethal potential, but don't know if he could make that kind of pass as frequently. In that respect, I do feel that his playmaking abilities won't effect the game that much.

 

[Gio]

Fabregas is playing in a congested midfield against 5 midfielders - he is going to get smothered and he isn't a player like Scholes, Pirlo or Xavi who can tika takka there way around it.

In the last two seasons before Fabregas left for Barcelona it was Arsenal/Barca in the Champions League and in virtually every tie he was lost, Wilshere outperformed him by a mile in the last one IIRC.

Well I remember him playing this penetrating ball for Arsenal's winner at the Emirates - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mH41c5y-S7A&t=183 - a situation which could quite realisticaly repeat itself in this game.

 

[Gio]

I voted for your team because I think it's structured more purposefully than Theon's (esp. the midfield) and I don't really see enough of a goal threat on his side. I do have some questions about the use of Messi, as a playmaker his trademark outball is a diagonal to the left flank, but I can't really see Zambrotta being adept enough to make these kinds of runs and neither Ronaldinho or Rivaldo are renowned for running behind the defence. The Messi-Zanetti combo has lethal potential, but don't know if he could make that kind of pass as frequently. In that respect, I do feel that his playmaking abilities won't effect the game that much.

Don't worry, I'll save that for when Romario enters the fray.

 

[Fergus' son]

I agree that there is a distinct lacking goals in Theons team, Ronaldo is a great goal scorer but has far more to his game that a partner would bring out in him, as it is I see his creativity being unused which is a huge shame.

Gio has the problem of having Messi in a system which isnt custom designed to get the best out of him, the fullbacks are fine but Rivaldo and Ronnie won't be replicating Pedro and Villa and neither will Mauro/Vieira do so Busquets/Xavi.


Hard to call, before the game I though Ronaldo/Shev would ultimately be too much for Rio and Vidic but obviously that isn't the case in game. I also thought Nesta/Maldini would've been ideal against Messi but again that didn't happen, and Silva has been used instead. I can see Messi having some joy and overall Gios team having the more potent threats.

 

[Brightonian]

Midfield porn from Theon.

 

[Cutch]

I really think Gio should have gone for this lineup/formation. That front 4 would have brought in shit loads of votes. I know Theon has the numbers in midfield and Gio is wary about that, but that team there is going to seriously pin him on the back foot for much of the game.

 

[antohan]

Midfield porn from Theon.

Can he score though?

I see it as a slight on Shevchenko and Candela myself. Theon hasn't gone for the best side but the best collection of names.

Gio's side is just awesome.

I also agree that Rio-Vidic had an outstanding record at their peak and on their day are more than capable of attending to Ronaldo. If they do, where will the goals come from?

 

[Moby]

Outstanding record was against regular PL strikers though, this is Ronaldo. At his peak I cannot see anyone stopping him from scoring, nevermind with that relentless service he will get.

 

[Theon]

Can he score though?

I see it as a slight on Shevchenko and Candela myself. Theon hasn't gone for the best side but the best collection of names.

Gio's side is just awesome.

I also agree that Rio-Vidic had an outstanding record at their peak and on their day are more than capable of attending to Ronaldo. If they do, where will the goals come from?

Candela would have gotten absolutely roasted, he is up against Ronaldinho and Zanetti - it would have been insanity to start him there.

As it is Maldini is the only left back in the draft who I would feel confident in dealing with that threat, Lizarazu, Cole, Lahm anyone else would be in way over their head but Maldini can handle that flank.

He has a better chance of doing so than Vidic coping with Ronaldo. He was absolutely electric with the ball and Vidic's clear weakness is pace and trickery.

 

[Ash_G]

Personally would say that Gio obviously has the greater attack, but Theon's team is almost as well set up as it could be to deal with it. Gattuso and De Rossi will help double up on his attackers, leaving it as Pirlo, xavi and Iniesta vs, Viera, Fabregas and Silva. Gio has the power but I think he'd struggle to get the ball.

I can see where the argument about the lack of goal threat comes from but then Theon's team is set up to nick it. They should dominate the ball and really be able to plus any gaps, then in the team he has the best long range and short range passers on the pitch, which means that Gio's defenders are really going to have to be alert for Ronaldo getting in, and iniesta drifting. Plus Iniesta has a good record for scoring in the important games even if he doesn't get many.

Set pieces as well could be important. Both have a couple of great aerial threats, but again Theon's team has Pirlo's delivery to give it a real edge.

It's a tough one, if this match was properly played it would be really fascinating to see. Genuinely a case of who makes a slip up first. Theon's team has to be really disciplined when Gio's have the ball as any slip would let one of his attackers in to a good area, but at the same time when Theon has the ball, which you'd expect to be more often than not, Dinho and Rivaldo will have to do some work, otherwise they risk leaving a lot of space for iniesta, xavi and pirlo to exploit.

 

[antohan]

I really think Gio should have gone for this lineup/formation. That front 4 would have brought in shit loads of votes. I know Theon has the numbers in midfield and Gio is wary about that, but that team there is going to seriously pin him on the back foot for much of the game.

In real life you would probably start with what Gio started, you can keep decent control and win the game that way. If it's not going well, there's always time to throw the kitchen sink if needed

It's a much more enticing kitchen sink as well. Theon bringing on Shevchenko would be a bit meh in comparison.

Poitn being, either side could fall behind in this game, but Gio has more room for clawing that back convincingly, which has to count for something. How many times has Barca been accused of lackign a Plan B if their (very effective) possession plan A isn't working?

 

[antohan]

Outstanding record was against regular PL strikers though, this is Ronaldo. At his peak I cannot see anyone stopping him from scoring, nevermind with that relentless service he will get.

They didn't do badly in Europe, did they? The Barca humilliations had nothing to do with defending but a complete inability to protect them.

 

[Ash_G]

In real life you would probably start with what Gio started, you can keep decent control and win the game that way. If it's not going well, there's always time to throw the kitchen sink if needed

It's a much more enticing kitchen sink as well. Theon bringing on Shevchenko would be a bit meh in comparison.

Poitn being, either side could fall behind in this game, but Gio has more room for clawing that back convincingly, which has to count for something. How many times has Barca been accused of lackign a Plan B if their (very effective) possession plan A isn't working?

True but then I guess that's what Pirlo gives him, someone who can sit deep and play in ronaldo or iniesta with one ball. They don't have to be overly reliant on xavi/iniesta feeding it through for Ronaldo. Add to that his team could be a genuine set piece threat.