Back in India eh!
Redcafe Champions League Draft - Theon v NM/BD
- Thread starter Theon
- Start date
Familiarity and Compatibility: Gilberto-Vieira is a title winning and Invincible midfield. Lampard-Drogba is the attacking partnership that helped Chelsea win the league and CL. Both were part of the spine backbones of two of the greatest EPL teams ever - Arsenal's invincibles and Mourinho's Chelsea. Vidic and Popescu are also a natural partnership. Vidic to perform his usual role, and Popescu to sweep things up instead of Rio.
Superior Wingplay - Maicon and Giuly are a natural partnership. Giuly will cut inside as he feels like, and Maicon will bomb on down as needed. Candela will be overwhelmed defensively, and will contribute nothing going forward. On the other wing, Figo will pin Cafu back, and (IMO) will get the better of him. Similarly, Sergi will be able to go forward due to the lack of natural width in Theon's team.
Superior Physicality - My team is physically much bigger and stronger than Theons. We also have great set piece takers like Figo, Maicon, Lampard and the Drog. Any corner or free kick is a great opportunity for any one of Vidic, Drogba, Vieira, Gilberto, Lampard or Popescu to score.
Midfield Stalemate - Gilberto, Vieira and Lampard are more than a match for Theon's midfield. I will also have the opportunity to play the ball out wide, or hit it up to the Drog if it gets overcrowded in there. Something his team will not. All in all, I see a real battle in there, but I have options he does not.
Exploit Theon's lack of width - this is separate from the wingplay as Theon's lack of width will pull Gattuso/De Rossi out of position, or allow me free reign over the flanks. If they move out of position, that leaves Lampard alone with Pirlo.. I would fancy Lampard to get a hattrick if so... He will say his full backs will be used to provide the width, but if they venture too far forward, Figo/Drogba will be waiting to hit them on the break. Theons team is very vulnerable on the break with
Reiterating my thoughts here.
Do people not see the obvious midfield stalemate with Giuly dropping in? What about my free goals from set pieces? Or how his boys will start rolling around diving once my players get a hold of them? If my wingers get the ball, his midfielders HAVE to cover, leaving Iniesta and De Rossi in midfield against Lamapard and Vieira surging forward. If a cross comes in, that is goals galore? I don't get it. I don't think people are seeing that match in the head the way I am.
Superior Wingplay - Maicon and Giuly are a natural partnership. Giuly will cut inside as he feels like, and Maicon will bomb on down as needed. Candela will be overwhelmed defensively, and will contribute nothing going forward. On the other wing, Figo will pin Cafu back, and (IMO) will get the better of him. Similarly, Sergi will be able to go forward due to the lack of natural width in Theon's team.
Superior Physicality - My team is physically much bigger and stronger than Theons. We also have great set piece takers like Figo, Maicon, Lampard and the Drog. Any corner or free kick is a great opportunity for any one of Vidic, Drogba, Vieira, Gilberto, Lampard or Popescu to score.
Midfield Stalemate - Gilberto, Vieira and Lampard are more than a match for Theon's midfield. I will also have the opportunity to play the ball out wide, or hit it up to the Drog if it gets overcrowded in there. Something his team will not. All in all, I see a real battle in there, but I have options he does not.
Exploit Theon's lack of width - this is separate from the wingplay as Theon's lack of width will pull Gattuso/De Rossi out of position, or allow me free reign over the flanks. If they move out of position, that leaves Lampard alone with Pirlo.. I would fancy Lampard to get a hattrick if so... He will say his full backs will be used to provide the width, but if they venture too far forward, Figo/Drogba will be waiting to hit them on the break. Theons team is very vulnerable on the break with
Reiterating my thoughts here.
Do people not see the obvious midfield stalemate with Giuly dropping in? What about my free goals from set pieces? Or how his boys will start rolling around diving once my players get a hold of them? If my wingers get the ball, his midfielders HAVE to cover, leaving Iniesta and De Rossi in midfield against Lamapard and Vieira surging forward. If a cross comes in, that is goals galore? I don't get it. I don't think people are seeing that match in the head the way I am.
Theon, have you voted?
Don't understand how people will talk about pace over the top. One of the reasons we chose Lloris is becausse he is BRILLIANT at coming out and sweeping the ball up. Balls over the top will be of no use. Vidic does not struggle against pace. He struggled against Fernando Torress. One (SHITE) player.
Nadal is the only player in your team who is close to mine. I'm talking about physicality helping me at set pieces. You haven't argued that bit.
Also, If you think Lampard will be "dominated" by Gattuso or Inzaghi, you are spinning a tale you know that is false. The same way he "dominated" Michael Carrick or Scholes whenm we beat them 7-1, or they only beat us 2-1 with Scholes sent off
At any set piece, my boys will have free reign. People may not like that I have focussed on set pieces, but it is a valid part of the game!
Theons got my vote. I was going to wait til Aguero came on but I may not be online and he's already indicated that it's firmly an option he's likely to use.
I agree with a lot of what antohan has said and also what thegame said about Litmanen, I prefer him to Lampard despite the Lampard and Drogba connection. It would add more creativity and keep Theons CBs occupied more consistently, making it more difficult for his wingbacks to get forward. Gattuso will definitely be occupied by Figo (Figo is magical, I think he would slip even Gattuso atleast once or twice) but I still think it will be really hard for NM to score.
Iniesta will make the big difference IMO, switch him with either Litmanen or Lamaprd and I'd probably vote the other way (not hugely surprising since he was Theons first pick).
I agree with a lot of what antohan has said and also what thegame said about Litmanen, I prefer him to Lampard despite the Lampard and Drogba connection. It would add more creativity and keep Theons CBs occupied more consistently, making it more difficult for his wingbacks to get forward. Gattuso will definitely be occupied by Figo (Figo is magical, I think he would slip even Gattuso atleast once or twice) but I still think it will be really hard for NM to score.
Iniesta will make the big difference IMO, switch him with either Litmanen or Lamaprd and I'd probably vote the other way (not hugely surprising since he was Theons first pick).
Alot more nonsense being stated here by NM - but had to respond to this.
Here is a list of what Nadal won at Barcelona..
European Cup: 1991–92
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1996–97
UEFA Super Cup: 1992, 1997
La Liga title: 1991–92, 1992–93, 1993–94, 1997–98, 1998–99
Spanish Cup: 1996–97, 1997–98
Spanish Supercup: 1991, 1992, 1994, 1996
Is the general consensus that I should bring Lampard off and play Litmanen in a 4-2-3-1??
I'll do that before going back to sleep then.
I'll do that before going back to sleep then.
Moral of this draft : Don't ever go for Chelsea partnerships. The bloke with the Chelsea defense and now this.
True. I think they are hated too much. I have too many Arsenal and Chelsea players. Oh well, shit happens. What are your thoughts on shifting Lampard for Litmanen?
Also, to be fair, the guy with the Chelsea defense had Gallas at fullback. I flayed him for that too!
I am talking about set pieces.Nadal is the only player in your team who is close to mine. I'm talking about physicality helping me at set pieces. You haven't argued that bit.
Also, If you think Lampard will be "dominated" by Gattuso or Inzaghi, you are spinning a tale you know that is false. The same way he "dominated" Michael Carrick or Scholes whenm we beat them 7-1, or they only beat us 2-1 with Scholes sent off
At any set piece, my boys will have free reign. People may not like that I have focussed on set pieces, but it is a valid part of the game!
Crespo was great in the air, but Kluivert was legendary - he is a monster at heading. They are 6 ft and 6 ft 2 respectively, so no idea how you can ignore that height! Then you have Thiago Silva, Nadal, De Rossi and Gattuso
Gattuso is the biggest nutter on the pitch, he would eat Lampard from breakfast!
Lampard for Gilberto? I think you would have to take off Lampard to bring on Jari. Last throw of the dice but the game looks sealed to be very honest.
Yes. That's what I meant. I'm sleepy!
FORMATION CHANGE - THEON PLEASE PUT IN OP
Updated mate
I don't know how this relates to my post in any way but I may as well clarify I never mentioned that.
What I did say was I liked your CB pair and that was the one combination of yours I rated very highly relative to what they faced. It isn't a case of me not rating Crespo and Kluivert (very much the opposite, and I think you are overlooking Kluivert as the highest ever Dutch NT scorer) but your pair is superb both individually and as a partnership. The only thing I pointed out (and it is valid) was their pace. I don't think it would be problematic as far as keeping up with their men, but I can't see them providing any cover to the fullbacks. It's not a biggie as it is (bar for Iniesta going to receive out wide on either flank) but once Aguero comes on it becomes more problematic.
I also like your other pairs and agree it is unfair to pick on Gilberto in isolation. He did form a great partnership with Vieira but when you hype that pair and what Arsenal accomplished with them you are blissfully ignoring the midfield facing you shat on Europe and then the World, not the PL.
Lampard-Drogba is also excellent and worked primarily due to the relentless pressure Chelsea exerted on their opposition. Drogba knockdown/chaos in the box/loose ball, cue "jammy" Lampard deflected goal or peno. I can't see you exerting such pressure and dominance here.
Overall, I just couldn't see you winning this, regardless of whether Litmanen gets on the pitch, so I didn't see any point in sitting it out to the end.
Theon's drafted near perfectly to pull off the diamond formation. I recall Jankulovski and Oddo running riot down the wings against us in Milan's diamond formation (we had Ronaldo playing that night too) so I'm not buying the lack of width accusations, not with Cafu and Candela as the wing backs and Gattuso and De Rossi there to fill in the gaps when necessary.
It's not insane. They're not exactly players that run onto the ball or dribble past players. It's a very set pieces, score with headers kind of set up you've got there. Pirlo isn't going to magically provide assists from the deep. Despite full backs attacking NM/BD's defense just have to keep themselves compact. Defend like you would against Barcelona but with more pressing as you don't have to deal with as many through balls, runs from the flanks cutting in or Messi.
You're asking who is going to feed the strikers in a team that has Iniesta and Pirlo?
This is insane NM. My team has absolutely unmatched creativity - Iniesta will be running rings around Gilberto 'How the hell have you been drafted' Silva and constantly slip through balls into Crespo/Kluivert.
Yeah, it is. Iniesta and Pirlo are the two most creative players on the pitch - yet you are asking how my team will create chances for my strikers.. Okay.
On the bolded - are you talking about Iniesta and Pirlo there, because that is absolutely mental if true. They are both outstanding dribblers, Iniesta is one of the best dribblers of all time. He runs rings around better players than Gilberto and has the creativity to slip throughballs into the strikers the entire game. But according to you we will rely on a set piece?
If you are talking about the forwards then Crespo absolutely is a player who runs onto the ball, his whole game was based around leading the line and getting goals. If there is one striker on the pitch who isn't a dribbler or someone who runs onto the ball then its Drogba.
Absolutely ridiculous that you would level that accusation at Crespo/Kluivert but not at Drogba.
Pirlo has done this his entire career.. what are you on about?
you were either very sleepy or deliberately misrepresenting things. We beat Roma 7-1 and not Milan (for whom Gattuso and Pirlo played). If you remember the 2007 matches against Milan or even Milan during the 2003-07 period, you wouldn't be talking so lightly about Gattuso being set on someone.Nadal is the only player in your team who is close to mine. I'm talking about physicality helping me at set pieces. You haven't argued that bit.
Also, If you think Lampard will be "dominated" by Gattuso or Inzaghi, you are spinning a tale you know that is false. The same way he "dominated" Michael Carrick or Scholes whenm we beat them 7-1, or they only beat us 2-1 with Scholes sent off
At any set piece, my boys will have free reign. People may not like that I have focussed on set pieces, but it is a valid part of the game!
I bet he was really sleepy. There's a lot wrong with that post. He thinks Gattuso plays for Roma and I'm not sure why Inzaghi was brought into the discussion either!
I bet he was really sleepy. There's a lot wrong with that post. He thinks Gattuso plays for Roma and I'm not sure why Inzaghi was brought into the discussion either!
Right. I was sleepy. I meant De Rossi when talking about Roma, but I was half asleep. I do remember the 2007 matches against Milan. To be fair, we did well (302 at OT) but then got thumped 3-0 in the middle of a title challenge at the San Siro..
I have no clue how I came up with Inzaghi. Sorry about that!
Couldn't believe what I was reading, Iniesta isn't a dribbler?Yeah, it is. Iniesta and Pirlo are the two most creative players on the pitch - yet you are asking how my team will create chances for my strikers.. Okay.
On the bolded - are you talking about Iniesta and Pirlo there, because that is absolutely mental if true. They are both outstanding dribblers, Iniesta is one of the best dribblers of all time. He runs rings around better players than Gilberto and has the creativity to slip throughballs into the strikers the entire game. But according to you we will rely on a set piece?
If you are talking about the forwards then Crespo absolutely is a player who runs onto the ball, his whole game was based around leading the line and getting goals. If there is one striker on the pitch who isn't a dribbler or someone who runs onto the ball then its Drogba.
Absolutely ridiculous that you would level that accusation at Crespo/Kluivert but not at Drogba.
Theon's pretty much nailed the diamond formation which is refreshing given how some managers have struggled so far to do so. I particularly like De Rossi and Gattuso's roles, perfect for those narrow midfields.
Yeah I agree with this. He was a beast but a flawed one nonetheless. Unfortunately for NM, Nadal - because of his physicality - is the one centre-half of that level who is a good match for Drogba.
Not necessarily identical systems because Brazil and Roma (I think) played 3-4-2-1, but the point stands.
Yeah that is absolutely true, Roma had that three at the back and Brazil played three at the back with Lucio/R Junior/Edmilson - but yeah, as you mention the point was just that he has played the right flank all on his own, in similar if not idenetical systems
Well this one is pretty much over so may as well give my thoughts.
Theon was the worst draw for me in the entire draft. Definitely said "oh shit" when I was drawn against him. He has a solid team, but I really think not being here when it started hurt me. Not much I could do about that as I said "start it" and fell asleep.
I do feel his defense and the penetration fo his midfield is overrated, but all in all, I can't really complain. Tough draw. Shit like that happens. Add Messi (he is the first to picl), another CB or a couple of wingers and he is set.
Theon was the worst draw for me in the entire draft. Definitely said "oh shit" when I was drawn against him. He has a solid team, but I really think not being here when it started hurt me. Not much I could do about that as I said "start it" and fell asleep.
I do feel his defense and the penetration fo his midfield is overrated, but all in all, I can't really complain. Tough draw. Shit like that happens. Add Messi (he is the first to picl), another CB or a couple of wingers and he is set.
Agree with you NM, worst possible draw. You have a good team but unlucky to come up against Theon.
Top effort as well mate, 3am and still posting your case.
Top effort as well mate, 3am and still posting your case.
It was a tough draw for NM who probably suffered from his less-than-popular Chelsea and Arsenal pairs and a couple of retrospectively under-rated Champions League stars from the 1990s in Litmanen, Popescu and Sergi.
I think Fergus is going to pick first.
My bad. Isn't Fergus picking Ronaldinho though?
I'd wait until the second round of picks to pick Ronaldinho. No hurry guys.
Haha
He would have been absolutely insane in your team, Ronaldinho on the left, Ronaldo in the right..
Yeah probably. Though he also has Zidane to replace Moller/Aimar. Tough call for the guy.
Nope he is going for Messi and playing him on the right, I asked him before
Ah! Yeah tough to leave Messi, and also because otherwise you would have a chance to unite Messi and Iniesta and finish the game.
Who did he have on the right? I remember he found it hard to sell Aimar or Moller but can't remember who he had on the right.
Who did he have on the right? I remember he found it hard to sell Aimar or Moller but can't remember who he had on the right.
Yeah he screwed me over there
He had Thomas Muller on the right, Villa on the left.
I dont actually think Messi on the right is better than Zidane as a number 10 or Ronaldinho on the left - all about the same level.
Messi as a striker is obviously the best but he has Batigol.
He had Thomas Muller on the right, Villa on the left.
I dont actually think Messi on the right is better than Zidane as a number 10 or Ronaldinho on the left - all about the same level.
Messi as a striker is obviously the best but he has Batigol.
Just drop him off Batigol and watch the sparks fly.
Oh yeah Muller. Well it's tricky really, replacing Muller would be more sensible though he's the flavour of the month right now unlike the forgotten Moller or Aimar, and then there is the fact that Zidane would be playing at his best position while Messi on the right isn't the one where he scored 70 from. Tough call to pick what would be better between Zidane feeding Batigol or Messi on the right with Batigol.