Redcafe Champions League Draft - Theon v NM/BD

[Theon]

FORMATION

A balanced and natural diamond formation, filled with complimentary partnerships and players with proven records of thriving in a similar set up – particularly the Italian midfield and the Roma wingback partnership of Candela and Cafu.

The Italian core of De Rossi, Gattuso and Pirlo are perfectly suited to this formation having won numerous Champions League titles, reached the final of Euro 2012 and won the 2006 World Cup playing together in similar systems – this is a cohesiveness and proven record that few teams in the draft can match.

Making the diamond work

Tactically the diamond can be difficult to pull off and in particular you need two things, both of which I deliberately drafted:

1) Central midfielders who are comfortable pressing into wider areas to win possession
In Gattuso and De Rossi I could not pick a more ideal pairing as both have played and thrived in this exact role. Gattuso in particular remains the greatest and most ruthless ballwinner I have ever seen, which is exactly what the diamond requires.

The Italians will press all over the pitch and win possession, both having the stamina and work ethic to perform the work of two men. NM lacks any semblance of a ballplayer in midfield which makes them vulnerable when put under constant pressure.

2) Wingbacks who get forward
Cafu and Candela are the perfect wingback partnership to stretch the pitch and offer a threat out wide. They played together for that outstanding title-winning Roma side which played without wingers - a proven record demonstrating their suitability for the role.

Cafu is perhaps the greatest attacking fullback of all time and has provided width in various narrow setups, which makes any claim about lacking width misguided. Roma won Serie A, Milan won the Champions League and Brazil won the World Cup playing wingerless formations with Cafu providing the width. Resorting to the lack of width argument is exceptionally desperate.

A young Cafu against Argentina when still playing in Brazil


HOW THE GAME IS WON

Iniesta v Gilberto
This is without question the biggest mismatch on the pitch and Gilberto remains completely out of his depth. Gilberto was an okay player, but he is facing the creative hub of the side and best attacking midfielder since Zinedine Zidane. Iniesta will drift across the pitch into space whilst Pirlo fizzes the ball into his feet, allowing him to turn and cause chaos with his boundless creativity and unmatched dribbling ability.

Relying on Gilberto to stop this is completely hopeless, he isn’t good enough.

Pirlo takes control
Sitting just behind the two CM’s is Pirlo. He will dictate the pace of the game with his exceptional passing ability, feeding balls down the flanks to Cafu and Candela, or through the midfield to Iniesta, Crespo and Kluivert.

NM has no attacking midfielder marking him giving Pirlo freedom to control the match. Dominance of possession is guaranteed and Pirlo's passing will provide continuous openings for the attackers to exploit.

Nadal vs Drogba
Leading the defence is the imposing Miguel Nadal, stalwart of Barcelona’s defence for nearly a decade and the captain of the Spanish national team. The Beast of Barcelona was exceptionally strong and is the perfect foil for the physicality of Drogba.

Whilst Drogba can bully lesser defenders he couldn’t bully Vidic and he won’t bully Nadal.

Crespo/Kluivert - A perfect partnership
The technical genius of Kluivert dropping off into space complimented by the ruthless finishing and movement of a prime Crespo.

In his Parma and Lazio days Crespo was amongst the deadliest strikers of the decade, becoming the worlds most valuable player when he was sold for a world record fee. Injuries ruined the peak of his career and he never reached the heights he should have, but in his prime he was absolutely deadly.



Counter Figo
NM’s biggest threat is without question Figo who possesses the ability to create a chance for Drogba. To counter this Gattuso is position on his side of the pitch to double up on him with Cafu and prevent Figo cutting inside. Both players have deliberate instructions to show Figo down the line and prevent him coming inside – as a right footed player on the left wing the threat from crossing is minimal, and even though Drogba is a threat in the air I have confidence in Thiago Silva, Nadal and 6 ft 4 Manuel Neuer to clear any crosses.

Cafu + Gattuso vs Figo is a match my team feel comfortable about. The real threats in this game are Iniesta vs Gilberto and Pirlo vs no-one, with the latter having the freedom to control this match.


PLAYER PROFILES

Manuel Neuer
The best goalkeeper in the world and former Footballer of the Year in Germany. Put in a flawless performance against Dortmund in the Champions League Final and with his huge 6 ft 4 frame is the perfect foil against Drogba.

Cafu
Without a doubt the best attacking fullback in the draft and arguably of all time. Winning domestic and Continental titles as well as two World Cup’s with Brazil establish Cafu as a true icon of the modern era. Blessed with limitless stamina he will get up and down the right flank the entire game.

Miguel Angel Nadal - The Beast of Barcelona
The heart of Barcelona’s defence and captain of Spain, Nadal was a natural leader with the immense physicality needed to combat Drogba. Also a capable ballplayer he could slot into midfield for both Spain and Barcelona.

Thiago Silva
Currently the best defender in the world and captain of the Brazil team. Thiago possesses more pace than Nadal and will sweep up behind him. Drogba has no real pace allowing any central counter attacks to be easily dealt with by the classy Thiago.

Candela
Cafu’s wingback partner at Roma, Candela has terrific stamina, pace and dribbling ability. He performed best when asked to cover the entire left side of the pitch which allowed him to fully utilise his attacking instincts. Along with Cafu Candela was an instrumental reason for Roma winning Serie A in 2000/01.

Also capable of scoring goals like this.

Pirlo
The greatest deeplying playmaker of all time, Pirlo will control the game with his exquisite vision and passing. Also one of the most deadly free kicks takers in the world, a joy for Nadal, Thiago Silva, Crespo and Kluivert.

De Rossi
An absolute colossus of a midfielder with one of the most all rounded games of the decade. Physically imposing with the mentality for a war, De Rossi also possesses sublime passing ability as seen in this MOTM performance against Spain – proving De Rossi can dominate the worlds greatest sides.


Gattuso
Without a doubt the best tackling midfielder that I have seen, his ball winning is simply unmatched. The fire and mentality of Gattuso combined with his limitless stamina are the perfect compliment to the artistry of Andrea Pirlo.
In linking up with Pirlo Gattuso is forming a midfield partnership that has won countless titles domestically and in Europe with Milan, as well as the 2006 World Cup with Italy.

Iniesta
Technically flawless and unquestionably the best attacking midfielder since Zidane. Iniesta is a big game player, putting in a MOTM performance in both the 2010 World Cup Final and the Euro 2012 Final, as well as being named Player of the Tournament.

Kluivert
Despite an impressive career, numerous titles and the status of Holland’s all time top scorer (ahead of Van Basten, Ruud, Bergkamp and Van Persie) Kluivert’s natural ability could have made him become one of the all time greats.

He was blessed with virtually every asset a striker could wish for. A powerful 6 ft 2 build, pace, unbelievable heading ability, finishing and most of all exquisite technique. Dropping off into deeper areas his close control and passing is perfect for Iniesta to play off.

Crespo
Perennially at risk of being underrated due to his Chelsea and Milan stints, injuries stalled Crespo’s career and prevented him maintaining his four years of form at Parma and Lazio which made him one of the deadliest strikers of the last 20 years. Great in the air, exceptional movement and ruthless finishing – he was phenomenal at his best.

Sub - Sergio Aguero
Excellent at running the channels and peeling out wide, Aguero will come on later on in the match to exploit a slow backline with his explosive pace and movement.

Team Theon​

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[Theon]

Vs​

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Team BD/NM​

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Sub - Litmanen on for Lampard​

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Spoiler

My Tactics/Thoughts:

Familiarity and Compatibility: Gilberto-Vieira is a title winning and Invincible midfield. Lampard-Drogba is the attacking partnership that helped Chelsea win the league and CL. Both were part of the spine backbones of two of the greatest EPL teams ever - Arsenal's invincibles and Mourinho's Chelsea. Vidic and Popescu are also a natural partnership. Vidic to perform his usual role, and Popescu to sweep things up instead of Rio.

Superior Wingplay - Maicon and Giuly are a natural partnership. Giuly will cut inside as he feels like, and Maicon will bomb on down as needed. Candela will be overwhelmed defensively, and will contribute nothing going forward. On the other wing, Figo will pin Cafu back, and (IMO) will get the better of him. Similarly, Sergi will be able to go forward due to the lack of natural width in Theon's team.

Superior Physicality - My team is physically much bigger and stronger than Theons. We also have great set piece takers like Figo, Maicon, Lampard and the Drog. Any corner or free kick is a great opportunity for any one of Vidic, Drogba, Vieira, Gilberto, Lampard or Popescu to score.

Midfield Stalemate - Gilberto, Vieira and Lampard are more than a match for Theon's midfield. I will also have the opportunity to play the ball out wide, or hit it up to the Drog if it gets overcrowded in there. Something his team will not. All in all, I see a real battle in there, but I have options he does not.

Exploit Theon's lack of width - this is separate from the wingplay as Theon's lack of width will pull Gattuso/De Rossi out of position, or allow me free reign over the flanks. If they move out of position, that leaves Lampard alone with Pirlo.. I would fancy Lampard to get a hattrick if so... He will say his full backs will be used to provide the width, but if they venture too far forward, Figo/Drogba will be waiting to hit them on the break. Theons team is very vulnerable on the break with his lack of width, and since Pirlo is the deepest midfielder, he cant drop into CB like a Busquets or Carrick could.

Player Profiles: BD94/NM

Hugo Lloris - Brilliant shot stopper.Greak keeper with Lyon, and he is showing his class in the English League. He was keeper of the year 3 times and in the team of the year thrice in France. His amazing distribution and reading of the game are a significant plus - anybody watching Spurs will attest to the number of attacks he breaks up by coming out and clearing the ball - a true sweeper keeper.​

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Sergi - Solid left back that has a good attacking side to him too. Played in the Barca first team for almost a decade and was captain, picking up 9 titles in the process, and also playing in four major national competitions(2 WC, 2 Euros). ​

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Vidic - If he needs an introduction on this site, I'm packing it in.​

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Popescu - Great compliment for Vidic, and can be the Rio that Nemanja needs beside him. Plenty of big game experience with over 100 caps for Romania, and played in the Euros and the WC. Will make a rock solid partnership at the back, which is the key to success. Brilliant reader of the game, and I see the Vidic-Popescu partnership working like the Rio-Vidic does. He is also a great passer for a center back. He can keep the ball well, and can start attacks from deep with long passes if needed.​

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Maicon - Best right back in the world in his prime. A one man wrecking crew on the right flank. Robust, a good defender, can run all day, and a fabulous crosser. Once of the best fullbacks of this era - don't rate him on his poor time at City.He was a machine for Inter in his prime.​

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Gilberto - As solid a defensive midfielder as they come. Gilberto is here to do a job - break up attacks, keep the passing simple. He is hard in the tackle, a great reader of the game, and an underrated passer. He is a world cup winner and an invincible. He and Vieira will continue their brilliant link up from their Arsenal days.​

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Vieira - Best in the world (along with Keano!) in his prime.A true box to box midfielder - capable of passing, tacking, shooting, running all day wrong. Don't really need to say much more about him either. World Cup winner, European cup winner, Invincible... He was a one man army. Gilberto and Vieira together dominated many three man mid-fields. Add them together to the man below, and I feel very confident that my midfield will never be over-matched.​

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Lampard - Mr. Consistency. Another box to box midfielder to complement Vieira. Don't need to talk too much about Lampard either. He can pass, tackle and shoot. His linkup and understanding with Drogba is brilliant, and I will always bank on a goal from him in a big game. The best scoring midfielder in this draft, and amongst the best scoring midfielders ever.​

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Figo - One of the best(if not the best) wingers of his generation. Great work rate, amazing dribbling and crossing, and compliments Drogba brilliantly. I can hardly think of a better winger to have beside Drogba. Not much else needs to be said. Won FIFA WPOTY and European footballer of the year, among other team trophies, such as the Champions League and La Liga. ​

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Giuly - The little French magician. Star of the Monaco side that went to the CL final, and then was the ying to ronaldinho's yang in the amazing Barca team from 04-06.His ability to cut in from the flank, play as an orthodox winger, and ability to come up with moments of genius make him one of my favorite players to watch.​

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Drogba - The beast. On his day, absolutely unplayable. He is one of (if not THE) best big game players in world football. He is capable of occupying both Theon's central defenders AND winning the battle against both of them. He is the complete center forward - great right foot, left foot, a beast in the air, and capable of a great free kick.He ability to lead the line and will to win is second to none - I'm sure all of the voters have seen him, so no need to elaborate too much.​

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Sub:​

Litmanen - Top scorer in Eredivise in the championship winning season in 94, and won the Champions League the year after. Name third best player in the world. Can hardly imagine a better sub to have, and can compliment Drogba well if he needs to come on. ​

 

[Feeky Magee]

I've gone for Theon, pulled off the diamond better than I did and I really like his defence.

 

[Moby]

Tough to find a flaw in NM's team. Should work like a machine.

 

[Theon]

Tough to find a flaw in NM's team. Should work like a machine.

Gilberto and Giuly, they still can't believe they have been drafted.

 

[Feeky Magee]

Tough to find a flaw in NM's team. Should work like a machine.

Gilberto's a bit meh for me, though maybe I'm thinking more of the later Gilberto.

 

[Theon]

There is a lot that is very questionable about NM's write up, but these two points are just nonsense.

"Superior Physicality - My team is physically much bigger and stronger than Theons."

Kluivert, Crespo, De Rossi, Gattuso, Cafu, Nadal and Thiago Silva are all physically imposing. Lampard will be dominated by Gattuso and De Rossi, whilst Gilberto tries to get to grips with Iniesta.

Then this is also absolutely wrong and shows that NM doesn't know about Nadal.

"Drogba - He is capable of occupying both Theon's central defenders AND winning the battle against both of them."

Nadal is absolutely perfect to handle Drogba - there is no way Drogba will win a battle against Nadal and Thiago Silva. NM is trying to suggest that Drogba is more physically dominant that the two centre backs but this is absolutely not true.

He wasn't called the Beast of Barcelona for nothing!

 

[Moby]

Gilberto and Giuly, they still can't believe they have been drafted.

They might not be the greatest individual talents out there, but they really compliment the team. Gilberto's proven himself to provide exactly the platform Vieira needs to dominate the midfield and with Figo and Drogba, Giuly's runs and positioning would be vital. You can see the coherence here, Giuly worked to a charm in that Barca team where Dinho was displaying his magic on the other flank, like Figo could do here.

 

[Ish]

Not too fond of your Kluivert - Crespo partnership Theon (aren't they a bit too similar?), especially with the lack of wide players in your team. You're going to be relying heavily on the fullbacks to provide width. Why not use Aguero to run the channels?

2 great midfields though.

 

[arjwiz]

Very tough. Theon has a great team but lacks attacking width. NM's is a bit more balanced, but Gilberto and probably Guily do weaken the team a bit.

 

[Theon]

Not too fond of your Kluivert - Crespo partnership Theon (aren't they a bit too similar?), especially with the lack of wide players in your team. You're going to be relying heavily on the fullbacks to provide width. Why not use Aguero to run the channels?

2 great midfields though.

That was my original idea actually, but after talking it through Kluivert is the better initial choice with Aguero coming off in the second half to attack a tire back line.

They are absolutely not similar though mate, Crespo was primarily a poacher/goalscorer and Kluivert is nothing like that. He would drop deep in that Barcelona side and get involved in the build up, he was by far the more technical player of the two.

He got lazy and had a poor attitude towards the end of his Barcelona career, which I mentioned in his player profile. Earlier on though he was perfect for someone like Crespo.

 

[sajeev]

Theon has a clearly better team in my opinion. voting for him

 

[Fergus' son]

Gilberto, Viera was a great platform for outstanding creative players like Bergkamp, Henry and Pires, with Lampard and Drogba I think there's too much power and not enough craft. Nadal does seem ideally suited to deal with Drogba too, and Iniesta/Pirlo vs Gilberto/Lampard is a mis match.

Hard to see past theon for this one IMO, only thing stopping me already casting my vote is that I think Aguero would do the most damage out of his strikers and he's on the bench, aswell as the fact that his best source of width, Cafu, has great counter opposition in Figo and Sergie to deal with.

 

[Moby]

Gilberto, Viera was a great platform for outstanding creative players like Bergkamp, Henry and Pires, with Lampard and Drogba I think there's too much power and not enough craft. Nadal does seem ideally suited to deal with Drogba too, and Iniesta/Pirlo vs Gilberto/Lampard is a mis match.

Hard to see past theon for this one IMO, only thing stopping me already casting my vote is that I think Aguero would do the most damage out of his strikers and he's on the bench, aswell as the fact that his best source of width, Cafu, has great counter opposition in Figo and Sergie to deal with.

Yes but Chelsea worked with that exact system to perfection, they had Makelele in Gilberto's role who was even poorer on the ball though obviously better defensively, but the Gilberto-Vieira (an upgrade on Essien) should work well here. As for Lampard, in usual circumstances his lack of creativity can be found out for a number 10 but few players have shown better positioning and off the ball movement than him and with Drogba putting his shift, few better men to pick up the pieces. The set up is ideal for Lampard to flourish. Figo providing the width with Drogba in the middle and Lampard appearing in the spaces around him would be really effective.

 

[arjwiz]

Aguero ahead of De Rossi with a tweak in formation might have aided Theon.

 

[Theon]

The set up is ideal for Lampard to flourish.

It absolutely isn't though..

Lampard thrived in a Mourinho side that dominated possession with their imposing midfield, they pinned the opposition back to their own 18 yard box and Lampard absolutely loved it - he would play off Drogba knockdowns or cut backs or take long shots from range.

This is absolutely not happening here. Pirlo/De Rossi/Gattuso/Iniesta will absolutely maul them in possession. Lampard is not a tecnhical possession player and niether was Gilberto (who is completely outclassed here) or even to a lesser extent Viera - none of those are on the possession level of Pirlo or Iniesta, even Kluivert.

That completely changes the way Lampard works. My team are not going to be camped on the edge of their box because it has Pirlo and Iniesta who will control the game. Lampard isn't going to be playing off knockdowns on the edge of the area because unlike the way Chelsea usually play their games, they aren't winning possession here.

Regardless of tactics, how you could say Lampard will flourish when he's being hounded by De Rossi and Gattuso is beyond me.

Gilberto is preoccupied with Iniesta, there is no way you can leave Iniesta free and get go get involved in the midfield battle. So that leaves Pirlo/De Rossi/Gattuso against Lampard and Viera, which is a mismatch.

 

[Fergus' son]

Yes but Chelsea worked with that exact system to perfection, they had Makelele in Gilberto's role who was even poorer on the ball though obviously better defensively, but the Gilberto-Vieira (an upgrade on Essien) should work well here. As for Lampard, in usual circumstances his lack of creativity can be found out for a number 10 but few players have shown better positioning and off the ball movement than him and with Drogba putting his shift, few better men to pick up the pieces. The set up is ideal for Lampard to flourish. Figo providing the width with Drogba in the middle and Lampard appearing in the spaces around him would be really effective.

Ideal set up for Lamaprd vs ideal set for Iniesta and Pirlo (both have two work horses supporting them and a great pair of full backs)

Only one winner there.

That Chelsea team you refer too was extremely functional, hard to break down indeed but not neccessarily extremely creative, particularly vs very strong opposition, which is what I originally pointed out.

Gilberto not being as good defensively as Makelele is obviously also a problem, the creative players have less of a platform to work off and Iniesta, the best player on the pitch, is bound to get the better of him.

Crespo/Kluivert aerial battle with Vidic would be great to watch!

 

[Cutch]

feck. This is close. Thought i'd be voting for BD/NM but that's a crackin writeup by Theon. Gonna take my time with this one

 

[Fergus' son]

feck. This is close. Thought i'd be voting for BD/NM but that's a crackin writeup by Theon. Gonna take my time with this one

Agreed, excellent write up.

 

[kps88]

No idea who I'm going to vote for.

 

[Moby]

Ideal set up for Lamaprd vs ideal set for Iniesta and Pirlo (both have two work horses supporting them and a great pair of full backs)

Only one winner there.

That Chelsea team you refer too was extremely functional, hard to break down indeed but not neccessarily extremely creative, particularly vs very strong opposition, which is what I originally pointed out.

Gilberto not being as good defensively as Makelele is obviously also a problem, the creative players have less of a platform to work off and Iniesta, the best player on the pitch, is bound to get the better of him.

Crespo/Kluivert aerial battle with Vidic would be great to watch!

Yeah I wasn't actually comparing with Theon's haven't done that yet, just that NM's on it's own looks extremely functional. As for creativity, Chelsea also never had a Figo so that's also a difference. Still they won't be the most beautiful team to watch but probably the toughest to beat in the draft if you talk of a real life scenario. Vidic, Vieira, Drogba and the likes, there's immense grit there that would grind results despite whatever the odds are.

 

[antohan]

NM built a side to bully the opposition and has run into a wall here.

I don't think I ever voted for a diamond and always thought if I ever would it would have to look like that Milan side.

I love width, but every time the caf argues wingerless formations and how fullbacks aren't enough I think of Cafú and Carlos for Brazil or with Candela at Roma.

Theon has nailed down both, I just can't see past him.

NM doesn't have a bad side but the only thing I highly rate there (note: relative to the oppo, I do rate the players and the Chelsea/Arse pairs) is that defensive pair of Popescu and Vidic and their ability to deal with Crespo-Kluivert. I really like both pairs, but the one from the Balkans more so.

That said, they weren't the fastest. We know how Vidic can struggle with pace and Popescu, while great at reading the game and anticipating danger, was probably Ayala level, if not slower. Crespo and Kluivert are not exploiting that much one on one, but it certainly leaves no room for either fullback to get adequate cover.

I can see Theon's argument of throwing Aguero in there to take advantage of tired legs and exploit the flanks/peg back the FBs even more. Early in the game Sergi/Maicon may not worry too much about Aguero on the prowl, but late in the game they'll know they don't have the legs to recover and track back.

That's exactly how that Milan/Italy side would approach the game, soak up pressure, run down the opponent physically and mentally, and rip them apart with surgical precision.

 

[BD]

As highlighted in the OP, Theons fullbacks will not realistically be able to provide the width that every team needs. If they do get forward(which will be hard with the knowledge that Figo and Drogba are waiting for a break), that'll leave the two center backs and Pirlo defending. Sure, Gattuso/De Rossi can cover the wings, but then that leaves Lampard and Viera versus Pirlo, and there's only one(well two really) winner there. Lampard will love to play against that sort of team.

 

[antohan]

We are once again having people not thinking about with ball and without ball, imagining everyone stays static when a player moves and double and triple-up scenarios emerging which aren't really feasible in practice (unless these players are mugs, which they aren't).

Firstly, Theo has two CBs on one centreforward so, at any one time, one of them is spare to cover a fullback. This means one of Cafú or Candela can go forward without overly-worrying about leaving a winger on the loose. It doesn't hold for NM as both CBs have CFs to track and thus cannot provide any sort of cover out wide.

Second, it follows that you will never have BOTH Gattuso and De Rossi covering flanks and leaving the centre of midfield entirely to Pirlo, it's either or and only IF both fullbacks have bombed forward AND both wingers are staying upfront despite the rivals having the ball and their team being attacked.

Third, when possession changes hands it is very unlikely that you will find all of Theon's players tied up upfront with all of NMs players in their default positions, they too have been tracking back to help recover possession. Iniesta is therefore relevant as well, as he will likely pick whichever NM player is close to him and track/press him, at least so long as the fullback(s) are working their way back.

It is worth clarifying because we keep getting this illusion that if fullbacks go forward then they almost automatically get caught out by their winger when the fact is week in week out we see fullbacks contributing to attacks and going back and forth all day without that meaning they spend the entire game getting caught in no man's land.

Cafú and Candela know exactly the risks involved and when they should or shouldn't exercise caution. That Milan midfield played with the likes of Cafú himself and Serginho so are well aware about any need for cover that arises. De Rossi played with both Cafú and Candela at Roma. Iniesta has spent the last half decade playing with the likes of Dani Alves and Alba and being an integral part of a formidable pressing unit once dispossessed.

It really is a bit strange to entertain the notion that Lampard and Vieira will double up on Pirlo and one-two their way past him all game long. It just doesn't work that way.

Wish it did, we may have got to one more CL final ourselves.

 

[TheGame]

BD/NM, I cannot believe you haven't played Litmanen behind the striker in a 4-2-3-1 instead of Lampard. He is much more creative and would fit that role perfectly. For me he is a better play than Lampard and that would strengthen your team.

This is a very close game and credit has to go to both players for the write ups. I think Theon just edges it for me,I believe Cafu and Candela will get forward, both sides have great midfields. The only thing for me is that while Kluivert and Crespo are great strikers, I feel you could have done with a forward who drops off but other than that, you have made the diamond work well.

 

[Cutch]

Theons got my vote. First time i think i've ever voted for a diamond formation but i could see how this one would work.

BD/NM have got a bad draw here, i think against most other teams i would expect to steamroller them.

- I fancy Nadal to have the strength to keep Drogba pretty quiet.
- I like the Milan/Italy/Roma links
- Think the 2 fullbacks are good enough to provide enough width
- Iniesta and Pirlo would have a massive say in this game.
- Think the Crespo-Kluivert have the pace and power to trouble Vidic-Popescu
- Don't really rate Gilberto or Guily

 

[Theon]

It is worth clarifying because we keep getting this illusion that if fullbacks go forward then they almost automatically get caught out by their winger when the fact is week in week out we see fullbacks contributing to attacks and going back and forth all day without that meaning they spend the entire game getting caught in no man's land.

This is the exact point.

If the system had such a huge weakness then it would never be used as a viable formation - when we know from both European Champions League games and also International games that the system does work. Or more accurately, it can work if you have the right players.

On BD's point re Cafu/Candela as I said in the OP - Cafu is perhaps the greatest attacking fullback of all time and has provided width in various narrow setups, which makes any claim about lacking width misguided. Roma won Serie A, Milan won the Champions League and Brazil won the World Cup playing wingerless formations with Cafu providing the width.

He has won every single thing there is to win in football playing in systems identical to this one.

Roma - no wingers, Batigol and Delvecchio upfront with Totti in the Iniesta position - Cafu and Candela providing the width.

AC Milan - no wingers, Pirlo/Gattuso/Seedorf/Kaka midfield - Cafu and Maldini provifing the width

Brazil - no wingers, front two of Ronaldo with Rivaldo just behind, and Ronaldinho in the Iniesta position - Cafu and Roberto Carlos providing the width.

Critcising the width angle is a really easy argument but it simply doesn't hold up when you have the right players. Cafu has proven domestically, continentally and internationally that he thrives in this exact role - criticising such a proven and established tactic doesn't wash.

 

[Moby]

Antohan, I agree with that Theon has got the trickier areas in a diamond right, that is the midfield and fullbacks but I'm not a huge fan of the two partnerships up front and at the back. I would have started Aguero because he provides a different dimension to anyone else in the team, that is explosiveness, pace, dribbling and would have troubled Vidic and Popescu a lot more. Also hsi ability to pull wide and control of the ball as well as creating chances for others would have fit in nicely in stretching the crowded middle of the park here. As for the back, think Nadal's getting a bit overrated here, a solid CB, saying he would pocket a colossal player like Drogba with ease is massively pushing it. His erratic positioning and tendency to get drawn out of the box could hurt them here with players like Giuly, Lampard and Drogba able to punish any space provided.

Anyhow I'm leaning towards Theon at the moment for his great midfield and as he rightly says would dominate the game and NM's team wold have to rely mainly on counter for their attacks and also that his best player is encountering a fullback like Cafu who would make it immensely tough for Figo to have any sort of impact. Unluck for NM/BD to encounter a team with such a midfield when they had a strong midfield themselves which could have dominated a few others we have seen and given them the win.

 

[antohan]

Antohan, I agree with that Theon has got the trickier areas in a diamond right, that is the midfield and fullbacks but I'm not a huge fan of the two partnerships up front and at the back.

You have to leave some room for improvement! I certainly would prefer it if both his CBs were also competent fullbacks, but Nadal on Drogba should work.

Re: his front two, he may yet get Messi and then all bets are off!

I would have started Aguero because he provides a different dimension to anyone else in the team, that is explosiveness, pace, dribbling and would have troubled Vidic and Popescu a lot more. Also hsi ability to pull wide and control of the ball as well as creating chances for others would have fit in nicely in stretching the crowded middle of the park here.

I like the pair he has and rate the individuals higher than Aguero, but I do agree in a wingerless formation he would be best served by someone with Agüero's (let alone Messi's) characteristics. Theon did address the concern saying he was leaving it for the second half and I reckon that works very well. IF not having started Agüero were proving a mistake he could make the sub straight away. The voting so far indicates he can afford to leave it for the second half. I don't think there is much to argue there, Theon seems well aware of what Agüero can add and will bring, he is just keeping it up his sleeve and I can't see that costing him in terms of conceding.

As for the back, think Nadal's getting a bit overrated here, a solid CB, saying he would pocket a colossal player like Drogba with ease is massively pushing it. His erratic positioning and tendency to get drawn out of the box could hurt them here with players like Giuly, Lampard and Drogba able to punish any space provided.

I reckon Nadal can deal with Drogba myself. I am less confident about his ability to cover Candela competently. What you are calling erratic positioning is what I would call failed attemtps to cover a very gung-ho Sergi Barjuan/Albert Ferrer. I wouldn't have an issue at all with him in backs-against-the-wall defending or dealing with Drogba's physicality, but I do think either Candela stays conservative or de Rossi needs to keep an eye on that flank because Nadal should stick to man-marking Drogba.

Anyhow I'm leaning towards Theon at the moment for his great midfield and as he rightly says would dominate the game and NM's team wold have to rely mainly on counter for their attacks and also that his best player is encountering a fullback like Cafu who would make it immensely tough for Figo to have any sort of impact. Unluck for NM/BD to encounter a team with such a midfield when they had a strong midfield themselves which could have dominated a few others we have seen and given them the win.

Agree, that's how I opened my post, NM/BD probably got the worst draw available for them.

 

[Jiggs'Hamstring]

Theon's team is brilliant.

 

[NM]

Just awake now.. Don't see Theon's team scoring to be honest. reckon the caf fetish for midfields is going against me. His midfield won't be able to outrun mne, and I have a clear outball available to my wingers and to the Drog if needed.

Candela will be ripped to shreds by Giuly and Maicon and Cafu pinned back by Figo. His midfield will be left to pass it around aimlessly, and Vieira and Gilberto will pick them off eventually. There are no goals in his team.

 

[NM]

This is the exact point.

If the system had such a huge weakness then it would never be used as a viable formation - when we know from both European Champions League games and also International games that the system does work. Or more accurately, it can work if you have the right players.

On BD's point re Cafu/Candela as I said in the OP - Cafu is perhaps the greatest attacking fullback of all time and has provided width in various narrow setups, which makes any claim about lacking width misguided. Roma won Serie A, Milan won the Champions League and Brazil won the World Cup playing wingerless formations with Cafu providing the width.

He has won every single thing there is to win in football playing in systems identical to this one.

Roma - no wingers, Batigol and Delvecchio upfront with Totti in the Iniesta position - Cafu and Candela providing the width.

AC Milan - no wingers, Pirlo/Gattuso/Seedorf/Kaka midfield - Cafu and Maldini provifing the width

Brazil - no wingers, front two of Ronaldo with Rivaldo just behind, and Ronaldinho in the Iniesta position - Cafu and Roberto Carlos providing the width.

Critcising the width angle is a really easy argument but it simply doesn't hold up when you have the right players. Cafu has proven domestically, continentally and internationally that he thrives in this exact role - criticising such a proven and established tactic doesn't wash.

And how often has Cafu had to deal with one of the greatest wingers ever in Figo? Absolute BS. If he moves forward, you will get decimated on the break. That Brazil 02 had Ronaldo and Rivaldo in it, along with Ronaldinho - a completely different beast from yours.

You have 0 width. If your fullbacks do move forward, Giuly and Figo will have a field day.

 

[NM]

Theons got my vote. First time i think i've ever voted for a diamond formation but i could see how this one would work.

BD/NM have got a bad draw here, i think against most other teams i would expect to steamroller them.

- I fancy Nadal to have the strength to keep Drogba pretty quiet.
- I like the Milan/Italy/Roma links
- Think the 2 fullbacks are good enough to provide enough width
- Iniesta and Pirlo would have a massive say in this game.
- Think the Crespo-Kluivert have the pace and power to trouble Vidic-Popescu
- Don't really rate Gilberto or Guily

Points -

-You like the Milan/Italy/Roma links, but noy mu Arsenal,Chelsea,BArcelona links? My links are more proven, and with better teams.
-Those fullbacks can provide width against Figo and Maicon on the other flank? Really? Theon is brainwashing a bit here
-Iniesta and Pirlo? I knew some United fans would be a little upst with a midfield of two of the best Chelsea and Arsenal midfielders ever, but ignoring Lampard and Vieiera is a bit sad
- Pace doesn't help them as Lloris will sweep balls over the top up.. And if you think Nadal can handle Barcelona but that Vidic will have any trouble with Crespo/Kluivert, I reckon you are massively overrating them. Especially Kluivert.
-Gilberto is there to do a job - You may not rate him, but without him, there would be no 50 game unbeaten streak. Giuly was specifically picked to cunter other midfields in the draft - he can drift in, adding a body to midfield, and making Theon's midfield life a lot more difficult.

 

[Theon]

There are no goals in his team.

What?!?

Crespo was a better goalscorer than Drogba, yet he's partnered by the Dutch All-Time top goalscorer in Kluivert, whilst on your team Drogba is up there on his own.

 

[NM]

BD/NM, I cannot believe you haven't played Litmanen behind the striker in a 4-2-3-1 instead of Lampard. He is much more creative and would fit that role perfectly. For me he is a better play than Lampard and that would strengthen your team.

This is a very close game and credit has to go to both players for the write ups. I think Theon just edges it for me,I believe Cafu and Candela will get forward, both sides have great midfields. The only thing for me is that while Kluivert and Crespo are great strikers, I feel you could have done with a forward who drops off but other than that, you have made the diamond work well.

Might consider a sub tomorrow morning, but the LAmpard Drogba synthesis is what we have gone for here.

Shocked people haven't picked out the natural combos in our team.

Lampard-Drogba for goals in the Chelsea machine
Vieira-Gilberto (alone! without Lampard!) would laugh at most 3 man midfields. Peopver need to remember them as a COMBINATION rather than pointing at Gilberto alone. Don't understand how people can criticize a midfield 2 that went unbeaten so long. Adding on of the best PL midfielders ever to that, and it s still a weak midfield?
Vidic-Popescu - Popescu is so similar to Rio its uncanny. Can't believe people really think Patrick F'ing Kluivert is going to cause them problems? Really?
Giuly - Maicon - Giuly drifts in, allowing more space dfor Maicon - Maicon alone would steamroll Candela, and allowing Giuly to drift congests Theon's midfield and gives Maicon room to run. It really is 4 on 4 in the midfield area. His creative players have nobody to pass it too!

 

[NM]

What?!?

Crespo was a better goalscorer than Drogba, yet he's partnered by the Dutch All-Time top goalscorer in Kluivert, whilst on your team Drogba is up there on his own.

And who is going to feed them the ball? Your fullbacks? Hello Figo and Giouly laughing on the counter? Any of your midfield? What with Lampard, Gilberto and Vieira all over them? Drogba buzzing against your deepest midfielder?There is no outball in your team?

I see ball retention, no threat.

 

[NM]

Also, damn this game. Its 3am here and I woke up just to check how i was doing in this game. If I don't fall back asleep soon, I'll be pissed.

 

[Theon]

And who is going to feed them the ball? Your fullbacks? Hello Figo and Giouly laughing on the counter? Any of your midfield? What with Lampard, Gilberto and Vieira all over them? Drogba buzzing against your deepest midfielder?There is no outball in your team?

I see ball retention, no threat.

You're asking who is going to feed the strikers in a team that has Iniesta and Pirlo?

This is insane NM. My team has absolutely unmatched creativity - Iniesta will be running rings around Gilberto 'How the hell have you been drafted' Silva and constantly slip through balls into Crespo/Kluivert.

 

[NM]

HOW THE GAME IS WON

Iniesta v Gilberto
This is without question the biggest mismatch on the pitch and Gilberto remains completely out of his depth. Gilberto was an okay player, but he is facing the creative hub of the side and best attacking midfielder since Zinedine Zidane. Iniesta will drift across the pitch into space whilst Pirlo fizzes the ball into his feet, allowing him to turn and cause chaos with his boundless creativity and unmatched dribbling ability.

Relying on Gilberto to stop this is completely hopeless, he isn’t good enough.

NM's thoughts: I'm not relying on Gilbrto to stop him. My team is all about combinations (Gilberto-Vieira, Lamaprd-Drogba etc.) that are being sadly overlooked.

Hugely ironic that you are singing the praises of theat Brazil team, but ignoring the job Gilberto did for them! Hypcritical too

Pirlo takes control
Sitting just behind the two CM’s is Pirlo. He will dictate the pace of the game with his exceptional passing ability, feeding balls down the flanks to Cafu and Candela, or through the midfield to Iniesta, Crespo and Kluivert.

NM has no attacking midfielder marking him giving Pirlo freedom to control the match. Dominance of possession is guaranteed and Pirlo's passing will provide continuous openings for the attackers to exploit.

NM's thoughts: Really? Have you never seen Lampard play? Or Drobga harrying the opposition midfield? I think some people here are ignoring Chelsea in 04-5 and 05-06 as it suits them to.

Nadal vs Drogba
Leading the defence is the imposing Miguel Nadal, stalwart of Barcelona’s defence for nearly a decade and the captain of the Spanish national team. The Beast of Barcelona was exceptionally strong and is the perfect foil for the physicality of Drogba.

Whilst Drogba can bully lesser defenders he couldn’t bully Vidic and he won’t bully Nadal.

NM's thoughts: Stalwart of Barcelona's defense and the Spanish national team for a time when they didn't win a whole lot? Spanish national team - 0. And BArcelona' wont a ton at the start of the 90s, and that was a lot more to do with their attackers and coach! Drogba is the best big game player in the world. He would be well up for this game and would singlehandedly pull my team through if needed.

Crespo/Kluivert - A perfect partnership
The technical genius of Kluivert dropping off into space complimented by the ruthless finishing and movement of a prime Crespo.

In his Parma and Lazio days Crespo was amongst the deadliest strikers of the decade, becoming the worlds most valuable player when he was sold for a world record fee. Injuries ruined the peak of his career and he never reached the heights he should have, but in his prime he was absolutely deadly.

NM's thoughts: Kluivert would never trouble the likes of Vidic or Popescu IMO. Also, he has no space to drop into! That's where Iniesta will be. For me, his diamond is out of shape (Gattuso wathching Figo), he will have no width, and Kluivert will drop into Iniesta's space - cramping him more. Weird.

Counter Figo
NM’s biggest threat is without question Figo who possesses the ability to create a chance for Drogba. To counter this Gattuso is position on his side of the pitch to double up on him with Cafu and prevent Figo cutting inside. Both players have deliberate instructions to show Figo down the line and prevent him coming inside – as a right footed player on the left wing the threat from crossing is minimal, and even though Drogba is a threat in the air I have confidence in Thiago Silva, Nadal and 6 ft 4 Manuel Neuer to clear any crosses.

Cafu + Gattuso vs Figo is a match my team feel comfortable about. The real threats in this game are Iniesta vs Gilberto and Pirlo vs no-one, with the latter having the freedom to control this mat

NM-s thoughts: If Gattuso is watching Figo, who is watching Lampard? Pirlo won't be marking anybody. He needs runners for him. Ok, maybe De Rossi will watchim him. Who watches Vieira then? He will be maknig late runs too. If Gattuso watches Figo, Then Theon's diamond loses shape and loses bite. I don't see how people can call his midfielx better with Gattuso constantly having to support Cafu against Figo.

 

[NM]

You're asking who is going to feed the strikers in a team that has Iniesta and Pirlo?

This is insane NM. My team has absolutely unmatched creativity - Iniesta will be running rings around Gilberto 'How the hell have you been drafted' Silva and constantly slip through balls into Crespo/Kluivert.

Yes I do. The Drog will drop deep on Pirlo and Iniesta will be have nowhere to go. Esssien helped block him a while ago (if i remember correctly) and Vieira will smash him.

Also, your team does not have a Messi. No matter how fricking creative Iniesta is, Spain usually win 1-0 against a much weaker midfield. I really see a lack of threat - I told you that earlier too before we were drawn together. You have sold your midfield like I asked you too, sadly against me.