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Redcafe Sheep Draft QF4 - antohan vs Gio

Who will win based on all the players at their peak?


  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

Thisistheone

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Oct 1, 2010
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He voted around the time you started banging on about counters, which is what I found odd since he of all people should be more wary of jumping on the "acres of space, lightning quick, I'm filling my boots" mantra. It struck me as particularly odd.

Not surprised the way Theon seems to be going on and on about Bergomi. Poor Balu, his brain is going Tito's way.
I voted after taking my time and thinking about it. It wasn't about the counter, I only mentioned that to help you, saying that the graphic you drew looked vulnerable to Gio's counter. You shouldn't have drawn that graphic, imo.

There are goals in Bergkamp and Robben, for sure, but Cavani is the only real one in your side you'd label as a 20-25 goals a season man. Therefore, If he gets shut down, then you're struggling a bit for goals, especially against that back 4 and those 2 midfields in front. So in my view this is a tight 1-0 win for Gio, or 2-1 at the most. Don't see more goals than that here. He could definitely score through Vieri or Lopes or Rivaldo. A lovely cross from Michel or a bit of Rivaldo magic. It's hard but thats the way I saw it.

My game was different since pretty much everyone seen it as a high scoring game. A 3-3 or something. This match is a much tigher affair.
 
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Annahnomoss

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Oct 4, 2012
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10,101
Sorry Gio, I was on the phone at work just to vote and I completely missed that you had sub'd in Hagi. Would have changed my vote very likely if I had seen it and had time to think about that. My bad.
 

Annahnomoss

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Gio I think you should've started Hagi over Lopez at the beginning of the game, really is a better fit.
Yeah, much better. I would have preferred if you started Hagi in the actual midfield as a withdrawn CAM and Rivaldo slightly ahead as a left attacking midfielder.

Then your midfield would have had exactly what it needed in someone to provide the balls forward - your offense would be even stronger too with Rivaldo getting plenty of balls to work with.
 

Gio

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Good game Anto. I know you still love me really. ;)

Why you think that out of interest? Thought Lopez gives Gio a bit more balance on the left and a pacy target for Rivaldo in behind
I knew Piojo's number one fan would be here sharpish to justify his inclusion in the starting XI.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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Why you think that out of interest? Thought Lopez gives Gio a bit more balance on the left and a pacy target for Rivaldo in behind
Hagi adds more workrate and a much bigger threat, he played there constantly for Romania, and did it superbly. I guess that's pretty much it. I think he can be that change from what anto loves to call "Lazy L" :D
 

antohan

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Apr 24, 2002
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Good game Anto. I know you still love me really. ;)
I do, us Uruguayans have soft spot for Scots. Loads of stuff in common, incredible as it may sound.

It's quite fitting my first draft game was againt you and my last one as well. You've finally beaten me, but I liked the other Gio better, this one was so dishonest at times even I was shocked.

I knew Piojo's number one fan would be here sharpish to justify his inclusion in the starting XI.
You cnut, that switch as I was leaving was really evil, I managed to keep my priorities right and get to the cemetery on time but there I was with everyone crying their eyeballs off and thinking "It's actually a feck up, but no one will call it, will they? In fact, game over from a sexy point of view".

Thank god it's over, never again, can't be arsed really, particularly when it is clear I think about stuff in a completely different way to everyone else so of course I get frustrated!!!!!
 

antohan

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OK, now the game is over I hope people can read with an open mind and not permanently thinking there's an agenda in everything.

I couldn't go into it earlier because I didn't want to lay it all out (and it was all apparently complicated enough already when you have to explain fullbacks can attack AND defend).

Müller or Robben and López or Hagi were very interdependent decisions. I went with Robben assuming Gio would go López. I knew Hagi made for a sexier teamsheet but my worst case scenario was playing against López with Müller and my best case scenario was playing against Hagi with Müller. Robben was tactically a good halfway house.

Where's the link?

As you all heard by now, Koeman wasn't the quickest, which obviously is a negative. In this game, the relevant implication was that even with Thuram partnering him I couldn't live with both López and Vieri's pace. If Thuram tries to pick up López, that leaves Vieri to skin Koeman, which effectively prevented me from having a high defensive line.

The deeper my defensive line the less likely it was Gio could transition effectively and the less pace in space could be exploited. My benefit from having Koeman though was I could execute such transitions, which in turn meant Robben alongside Cavani upfront could keep Gio's defensive line pegged back as well.

The more I stretched the play and increase the distance between the lines the better placed I was to control the game as a result of having better passers and more players who could get involved both in defensive and offensive phases (I hope people actually realise this is bloody obvious when you compare what Brehme-Sagnol offer vs. what Bergomi-Carboni do).

THAT is why Robben was important. If I couldn't play a high line due to Koeman's pace I may as well use his exceptional attributes to still gain an advantage by forcing Gio to also defend deep. He never made any explicit remarks on that, no one asked or cared, which indicates I overthink this (even if it is evidently crucial).

Now enter Hagi... Pace is no longer such a high priority concern, particularly when Hagi would likely come deeper and get invoved in buildups rather than be up there trying to beat an offside trap.

It means I can defend high up, which means there's now far less distance between the lines. Koeman and Popescu are suddenly quite handy as fallback options during attacks, Cocu and particularly Schweinsteiger are more involved around the edge of the box, Brehme and Sagnol are taking far less risks purely by virtue of cutting the distance to recover in half.

At this point though it all gets rather congested. I'm applying more sustained pressure on Gio but everything is more compact. The implication is this is no longer the right game for someone who exploits space (Robben) but someone who creates it where there wasn't any (Müller). That's when Müller would come on and prove a game changer.

Hagi, great as he was, effectively would have been Gio shooting his own foot. Probably best I had no time to lay this all out, no one would listen anyway assuming it's all too convenient.

It was actually the move I was hoping he made from the off. :annoyed:
 

Moby

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I would have rather preferred Hagi in a midfield three with Rivaldo as a second striker playing off Vieri. That would have warranted a lot more attention from Thuram and allowed Rivaldo to work between the lines and bring his goal threat into great effect.
 

Gio

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I agree about Hagi in this game. Piojo was a better fit and that's why he started. Bringing Hagi into the fray to kill the game off was also perfectly logical. Obviously Hagi could have started central and Rivaldo wide, but I wanted the best player on the park at the hub of things, especially given the advantage he would hold over Cocu or Popescu.
 

antohan

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I would have rather preferred Hagi in a midfield three with Rivaldo as a second striker playing off Vieri. That would have warranted a lot more attention from Thuram and allowed Rivaldo to work between the lines and bring his goal threat into great effect.
:confused: How exactly? What have you done with Michel/formation-wise?

I agree about Hagi in this game. Piojo was a better fit and that's why he started. Bringing Hagi into the fray to kill the game off was also perfectly logical. Obviously Hagi could have started central and Rivaldo wide, but I wanted the best player on the park at the hub of things, especially given the advantage he would hold over Cocu or Popescu.
Nah, Rivaldo was never going to start wide, I knew that. I agree in a real game bringing him on with ten minutes to go would probably result in more good than bad, it's not like the whole change in setup I entioned would have been executed in time to have any impact at all!

It was largely aimed at those saying Hagi should have started. I would have loved that. Would probably have spent as much time arguing with a brickwall because Hagi is so obviously a great player... but Piojo was just the better option here, no two ways about it.
 

antohan

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Overdue revenge for this:
See the pattern?

7-0, then 0-0, you should be beating us next time.

Oh wait... maybe that's what all those ground out 1 vote wins were all about... the last scrappy remnants of it all...

Seriously though, we are a free nation despite being under Portuguese rule, kicking them out, Spanish rule, kicking them out, Argie rule, kicking them out, Brazilian rule, kicking them out... We are only here because we had the balls to stand up to them all and they know we are mad enough that it is best not to mess with us (when we kicked the Brazilians out we actually went on to invade them and weren't far off from Sao Paulo by the time they offered an armistice and recognising our independence :lol:*).

The Brazilians still treat us as if we were a province, so do the Argies. Everything we ever got right, anything we invented, any artists, anything of note coming out of Uruguay they instantly plagiarise and adopt as theirs. Argentinians are Argies and Uruguayans are "rioplatenses" (from the River Plate, aka British for you). Even Enzo fecking Francescoli is a River Plate legend first and foremost :(

cnuts the lot of them. All we can do to remind them we are not them is beat them at football.

So yeah, we are always very sympathetic to the Scots and Paddies. Very few are aware the Welsh even exist, mind.

*And when we kicked out the Argies we called on all Argie provinces to free themselves from Buenos Aires' rule and join us in a new federation. All the provinces north of Buenos Aires joined us, which is when the Argies for once played ball with the Brazilians: "you invade those pesky Uruguayans, keep them, and we'll show the others who joined them what happens when they try think like them".

Bullies.
 
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