Yeah I think that's a great point. They've also done a piss-poor job of ensuring clear dynamics in terms of who listens to who - and this is further compounded by the established hierarchy of seniority among referees.I don't think it has made the on-pitch referees worse. However, it has basically given them a second job to do as VARs, which they are also (to varying degrees) not doing well. Which kinda compounds the problem of bad officiating as it adds an extra layer to it. Especially when the protocols around VAR are still very messy in the PL especially.
One of the interesting points in the article you posted above relates to that. As it says, some refs are just better at being VARs than others. And where other competitions might have a dedicated panel of people who can focus entirely on being VARs (and be assessed on how well they do that job alone) the PL are swapping refs in and out as VARs, including some from lower divisions. Specialisation would make more sense, you'd think.
Though saying that, I see Lee Mason is the first ref retiring to become solely a VAR....
Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion
- Thread starter Annihilate Now!
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Not attacking you at all and I apologise if that's how it came across, as I was making a tongue in cheek comment about your username.
Fair play.
At the end of the day I see things through rose-tinted specs when it comes to Utd, and no doubt you're the same when it comes to Liverpool.
The one thing we can agree on though was Alisson's goal at the end was quite something, and I don't begrudge him that after what he's been through this year. He come's across as a top bloke.
It certainly hasn't lowered the overall quality, but it has highlighted just how incompetent some of the referees are.
It's also highlighted the incompetence of the knobheads in charge, the amount of rule changes during a season and still they can't implement rules that actually make sense. How Mike Dean still has a job is beyond me.
Leicester players, and fans, celebrated instantly.
The goalkeeper himself said he didn’t so I think your statements not quite correct
Maddison looks gutted waiting for VAR.
If Kasper didn't fully celebrate it, then that's fair enough, but the instant reaction from the rest of the players + supporters doesn't exactly seem negative
My first reply to you on this was about you saying match day fans ‘supposedly’ have their day ruined so I replied that match goers, players and managers have all withheld their celebrations which does kind of ruin the game/day all so we can check that 1mm offside for five minutes, I’m really against that.Maddison looks gutted waiting for VAR.
If Kasper didn't fully celebrate it, then that's fair enough, but the instant reaction from the rest of the players + supporters doesn't exactly seem negative
I remember klopp saying about it, an now a keeper in a cup final. I didn’t say every player has stopped celebrating.
just seen the Cavani goal, nice, but was it not offside?
There was a very very small touch from Bruno and at that point Cavani was onside. If Bruno hasn't made contact, it would have been offside.
If Bruno didn’t get a touch, yes. If he did then no. Really difficult to tell from the replays I’ve seen.
Think they’re saying Bruno touched it!
Looks like it nicked the studs to come out flat like that imo
It's very clearly the opposite.
Both angles show there's no deviation on the ball at all.
They seem to be applying the logic that because they can't tell 100% that he's not got the thinnest touch ever on it, that they'll allow it!
Fulham should be fuming at that.
All replays show no suggestion of any deviation of the ball.
I wonder if they could even tell whether Bruno made a touch or not, and gave him the benefit of a doubt and let the goal stand cause they couldn't tell for sure either way.
Does the ball have to deviate if its touched? It could just drop a fraction if grazed surely?
I dunno, maybe cause its a Utd player
To overturn it they'd need definitive proof Bruno didn't touch it. If they don't have that the goal stands, because it was given on the pitch.
This looks like the most plausable explanation.
Linesman didn't flag. If VAR then can't say for certain, then they stick with the linesmans decision. If he had flagged for offside, decision probably would've been offside
i’d have been annoyed if that was given against us. the only way to prevent it in future is to follow cricket’s lead and have hot spot and snicko on hand to review such “touches” alongside two on field umpires who stand 11 or so yards away from the ball. play may have to be slowed/stopped at times to allow them to get in to position.
Yeah, it’s a cop out.
Cancelo sending off for falling over, eyes always in the ball then a c coming together
Gundogan gets whacked on the knee, no red card
Yes
The burden of proof is to disprove what the ref has judged, so if the ref claims to have seen, heard or otherwise inferred a touch from Bruno then VAR has to disprove that. If the ref had said that Bruno didn't touch it then VAR would've had to undisputedly prove that Bruno did touch it in order to give the goal. The most likely explanation then becomes that Mason claimed a touch and VAR couldn't disprove it.
How is is that the ref books the Fulham keeper for time wasting, and then blows up before the 4 mins of additional time is up whilst we are attacking?
4 mins added time and Liverpool aren't winning? Play until 94:40.
4 mins added time and United aren't winning? Blow up at 93:55.
That's not the case for offsides.
Only with fouls you get the "don't want to overturn the ref" calls.
Because he's fat prick who couldn't be bothered seeing out his last game.
Its not a farce when it concerns the scum getting the favourable descions, I bet theres more sanctions on us after this ESL if the premier league do anything.
Embarrassingly bad. No surprise there. It was so simple to see Fernandes didn't touch the ball.
I think that's reasonable but this is also more or less my point - a system that highlights the shortcomings of its employees can hardly be deemed to be successful, can it?
Genuinely I preferred back when a wrong decision was made - it could be chalked up to a referee missing a call or making a bad decision. Now we have things reviewed endlessly and even more baffling decisions made - all under the guise of "objectivity" which is not strictly true given the limitations of technology.
Guess my broader point is that football is inherently a difficult game to neatly package into digestible and isolated events - and personally I'd argue that it shouldn't be. VAR is an attempt to do just that, and for me that's contrary to the spirit of the sport.
Everyone will be talking about VAR ruining celebrations, but Werner's celebration is ridiculous when he must've known that he handballed it in 
Edit: Just checked the GW thread, happy to see the reactions in there being similar to mine
Edit: Just checked the GW thread, happy to see the reactions in there being similar to mine
So far VAR has saved Leicester from being robbed of a FA cup win and a CL spot in the space of 3 days
Can someone with refereeing insight explain how on earth Werner gets called for a foul instead of getting a penalty? Incredible.
Not clear and obvious. For it to be given a pen to Chelsea it would have required Werner's calf to detach from his knee.
It's soft as hell but that should be a penalty for Werner. Would love the VAR ref to explain his decision making there.