Remake Draft R16 | Gio vs DavidG

[Enigma_87]

To me, if there's not enough info on the personalities of the players we have to look at the formation and general style of the team. Sure you have 5 free flowing and attacking minded players but regardless if this is Joga Bonito side in a 3-2-5 system you still need those 2 midfielders or half backs at the time to bring the needed balance to the team.

When the other team has the ball you need ball winners. All examples of such systems have 2 ball winners in the middle of the park, otherwise you'll be missing the balance. For the record I think the mighty magyars were even more attacking minded side than la maquina and equally good ball hogs. There's a footage on youtube for the friendly game against England - one of the most famous ones and one of the goals is clear example. Even if you need more technical ball winners there are plenty of players in the pool to replicate just that.

Iniesta has a good work rate, but he's not Modric or Kroos (both would be better fits probably) to play him in a midfield 2 in a 3-2-5.

Also reading the player profiles wouldn't it make more sense to have Veron in the deeper role and the more pacy foil next to him? Veron has never boasted with a good pace, it's exactly the opposite in fact.

 

[Ecstatic]

River Plate 1941-47

Classic 'La Maquina' lineup
Coach: Jose Maria Minella
Achievements: Argentinian League 1941, 42, 45, 47
Key Players: Pedernera, Labruna, Moreno Loustau, Munoz, Vaghi
Formation: 2-3-5

While Europe was at war this Argentinian team, between 1941 and 1947, won four domestic titles, finished second twice, and played beautiful football. Featuring a famed forward line known as 'La Maquina' (The Machine) they swept all before them, playing a prototype 'Total Football' thirty years ahead of their time. Perhaps the greatest praise for La Maquina came from one of its biggest archrivals. Ernesto Lazatti, the Boca Juniors star from the 1940's had this to say: "I play against La Maquina with the full intention of beating them, but as a fan of football, I would prefer to sit on the stands and watch them play"

The famed 'La Maquina' forward line began in June of 1941 when Adolfo Pedernera replaced Roberto D'Allessandro at centre-forward and ended with Pedernera's retirement in November of 1946 (his replacement was a young Alfredo Di Stefano). Athough La Maquina is best remembered for the memorable forward line of Munoz, Moreno, Pedernera, Labruna and Lostau, these five players only played 18 league matches together, with 'Mono' Deambrossi and Alberto Gallo also alternating with them on the attack. The biggest attribute of 'La Maquina' was its dynamism. The five forwards were all very talented and (by the standards of the day) had great physical stamina. They did not have fixed positions and constantly rotated, which is why the team is considered a precursor of the Dutch system of the 1970's.

With its most common lineup (see above) the team had a solid defense, with a genuine defensive rock, the temperamental Ricardo Vaghin acting as the anchor. In midfield, it boasted two defensive midfielders of great sacrifice and vision in Bruno Rodolfi and Jose Ramos. They were joined in midfield by 'Charro' Moreno, the creative force of the team, who tracked back and covered the whole right side. Adolfo Pedernera, the centre-forward, would withdraw to midfield, confounding the central defenders who were supposed to mark him and opening spaces for the other forwards (as Hidegkuti would do for Hungary in the following decade). The talented and opportunistic Angel Labruna took full advantage of this space, enabling him to become one of the most prolific goalscorers in the history of Argentine football. Labruna was complemented by the two wide wings, Juan Carlos Munoz and Felix Lostau. And of course, Moreno and Pedernera were also lethal joining the attack from midfield.

In the 1950's a number of Argentine players left the country, including the likes of Di Stefano, Sivori, Maschio and Angelillo, who did extremely well in Europe and are considered all-time greats. But old-time Argentine football fans (and indeed Di Stafnao himself) would argue that these players from the 1940's were even better than those from the 1950's who found success in Europe. However, since Europe was at war and there were practically no international tournaments or matches at the time (Argentina chose not to compete in the 1950 World Cup), the players didn't get the same international exposure, so this is a premise that's impossible to prove.

From left to right: Munoz, Moreno, Pedernera, Labruna, Lostau

My role in this thread below

Spoiler: Here

 

[Deleted member 101472]

River Plate 1941-47

Classic 'La Maquina' lineup
Coach: Jose Maria Minella
Achievements: Argentinian League 1941, 42, 45, 47
Key Players: Pedernera, Labruna, Moreno Loustau, Munoz, Vaghi
Formation: 2-3-5

While Europe was at war this Argentinian team, between 1941 and 1947, won four domestic titles, finished second twice, and played beautiful football. Featuring a famed forward line known as 'La Maquina' (The Machine) they swept all before them, playing a prototype 'Total Football' thirty years ahead of their time. Perhaps the greatest praise for La Maquina came from one of its biggest archrivals. Ernesto Lazatti, the Boca Juniors star from the 1940's had this to say: "I play against La Maquina with the full intention of beating them, but as a fan of football, I would prefer to sit on the stands and watch them play"

The famed 'La Maquina' forward line began in June of 1941 when Adolfo Pedernera replaced Roberto D'Allessandro at centre-forward and ended with Pedernera's retirement in November of 1946 (his replacement was a young Alfredo Di Stefano). Athough La Maquina is best remembered for the memorable forward line of Munoz, Moreno, Pedernera, Labruna and Lostau, these five players only played 18 league matches together, with 'Mono' Deambrossi and Alberto Gallo also alternating with them on the attack. The biggest attribute of 'La Maquina' was its dynamism. The five forwards were all very talented and (by the standards of the day) had great physical stamina. They did not have fixed positions and constantly rotated, which is why the team is considered a precursor of the Dutch system of the 1970's.

With its most common lineup (see above) the team had a solid defense, with a genuine defensive rock, the temperamental Ricardo Vaghin acting as the anchor. In midfield, it boasted two defensive midfielders of great sacrifice and vision in Bruno Rodolfi and Jose Ramos. They were joined in midfield by 'Charro' Moreno, the creative force of the team, who tracked back and covered the whole right side. Adolfo Pedernera, the centre-forward, would withdraw to midfield, confounding the central defenders who were supposed to mark him and opening spaces for the other forwards (as Hidegkuti would do for Hungary in the following decade). The talented and opportunistic Angel Labruna took full advantage of this space, enabling him to become one of the most prolific goalscorers in the history of Argentine football. Labruna was complemented by the two wide wings, Juan Carlos Munoz and Felix Lostau. And of course, Moreno and Pedernera were also lethal joining the attack from midfield.

In the 1950's a number of Argentine players left the country, including the likes of Di Stefano, Sivori, Maschio and Angelillo, who did extremely well in Europe and are considered all-time greats. But old-time Argentine football fans (and indeed Di Stafnao himself) would argue that these players from the 1940's were even better than those from the 1950's who found success in Europe. However, since Europe was at war and there were practically no international tournaments or matches at the time (Argentina chose not to compete in the 1950 World Cup), the players didn't get the same international exposure, so this is a premise that's impossible to prove.

From left to right: Munoz, Moreno, Pedernera, Labruna, Lostau

My role in this thread below

Spoiler: Here

This was the article I came across first . Wanted to steer clear of it due to the formation being different than the blueprint .

Ultimately , it's been a mistake to put Iniesta in but I feel that it's an honest re-creation . The front 5 and back 3 are as close as I could get after totti was taken , who would have been perfect as pedernera .

I do feel that overall , I've captured most of what la maquina was about , beautiful attacking football with players all capable of playing multiple positions .

 

[Ecstatic]

@DavidG

The idea was to feed the discussions.

In fact, I don't judge your team because I haven't researched your players and because it's hard to recreate this team given the limited available information. On the other hand, you have more freedom.

Typically, the 22 players have the outstanding reputation to shine in all possible positions

Texts & quotes are always a good starting point but nothing beats videos.

And unfortunately, no full games or decent compilations are available on Youtube regarding your team

 

[Ecstatic]

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Yep the discussion these last few rounds in particular has been pretty low , I somehow managed to win the QF despite noone asking me a question or making a comment about my team .

Credit to Gio though , it's a great remake and if I was being honest and scoring both our recreations out of 11 then I would give him
10/11 and myself 8.5/11.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Here we have 7 different players from la maquina , all seemingly involved in skillful / offensive moves . I'm unable to identify them but seems like " joga bonito" was the culture here .

Some really impressive dribbling manoeuvres and quick feet there - can recognise Moreno there with the baggy pants.

Regarding Ramos-Roldolfi's roles there isn't much to go upon but there are a few sources which do shed a wee bit of light on their roles. Both primarily seem to have been industrious and defensive players who gave a bit of balance to La Maquina as a whole but it does seem like Ramos was the more creative one with Rodolfi being en-tasked with the more defensive/heavy-lifting duties relatively. Whilst they were both capable of putting a shift in, it also seems that they were both fairly talented on the ball by certain accounts and of course, the flashy and possession football that they played, which led to their nickname 'Knights of Anguish'*, in the middle of the pitch also lends credence to this notion too.

They called us the "Knights of Anguish" because we didn't look for the goal. We never thought we couldn't score against our rivals. We went out on the pitch and played our way: take the ball, give it to me, a gambetta (dribble), this, that, and the goal came by itself. Generally it took a long time for the goal to come and the anguish was because games were not settled quickly. Inside the box, of course, we wanted to score, but in the midfield we had fun. There was no rush. It was instinctive.

The perfection reached that block the tried to explain the Adolfo own. "In practice we would do a WM with Moreno, I, Rodolfi and Ramos at the four corners of what was called the magic square But the bottom line of that team it was that we covered all sectors of the field moving with permanent changes position. "

It was the 40s and the total football had come to this game. And there was not only reached, but under the leadership exerted Pederson was played to perfection

http://blogs.as.com/futblogging/2008/03/pedernera-el-be.html

Ferreyra, Ramos and Rodolfi had the vision of the game, the class and the tough task of caring for the course and the defense when the five stars of offensive squad were out front

https://imortaisdofutebol.com/2013/03/20/esquadrao-imortal-river-plate-1941-1947/

The Team

La Maquina – The Team (Courtesy : Marca)

Built on the pillars of attacking rendezevous, River Plate under Cesarini were an aesthetic’s dream. As seen in the graphic above, the team lined up in the widely used W-M of those days. The temperamental Ricardo Vaghi led the defence with able support from Norberto Yacono and Luis Ferriera – full-backs of the team. Bruno Rodolfi and Jose Ramos held the fort in central midfield, with Rodolfi playing the foil to Ramos’ creativity from deeper areas of the pitch. Charro Moreno, the right sided midfielder drifted into the center ahead of the central midfielders, orchestrating River’s attacks with his exquisite range of passing. When not in possession, he was equally efficient in covering the right flank to help his full-back. But the quality of left sided Adolfo Pedernera is what took River to the next level. As Uruguyan hero Obdulio Varela one said –

“I played against Pedernera and like him, there is nobody”

The striker played the role, of what many would say the modern False 9. Pedernera was a master of creating pockets of space and getting his team-mates into the game. He dropped deep into midfield from the left, thereby drawing his marker out of position and creating a vacuum through the middle for his team-mates. The likes of Angel Labruna and Felix Loustau would greatly benefit from this and the latter would eventually go on to be one of the highest scorers in Argentinian football history. This unique positional switching of Pedernera would later go on to inspire the Magyars of the fifties and the Dutch of the seventies as shades of La Maquina could be seen in the likes of Puskas and Cruyff. The dynamism of La Maquina was something novel in those times. Positional inter-changes, quick passing, one-two’s, fearless dribbles past opposition markers and the physicality to go with it made the five in attack unplayable at times. River’s 5-1 thrashing of Boca in the superclassico still remains one of the purest attacking masterpieces ever seen.

http://www.thehardtackle.com/2014/la-maquina-the-jewels-of-argentininan-football/

Also reiterates the left wing dynamics with Pedernera-Loustau-Labruna and the interplay between them that DavidG & Chester have pointed out in the previous matches.


Perhaps Argentine fans @IFC 1905 and/or @Pocho could provide more info/anecdotes/stories on the La Maquina if they don't mind. Shame that anto and Marcosdeto aren't here anymore.