Cheers, boss - duly noted.
Reserves Draft SF2 | Downcast/mazhar vs Joga/RedTiger
- Thread starter Balu
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His most famous game probably was the 6-3 win with Duisburg against Bayern. He played leftback, defended Rummenigge at the back and still wouldn't stop running forward. He scored 4 goals, the only defender to ever score 4 goals in a Bundesliga match. I think it was in 1977 or 1978, so it wasn't a particularly great Bayern side following our collapse after the 3rd European Cup win, but still, I'd call it impressive. And it's a good example of how he played as a leftback. He still is the defender with the best goalscoring record in the league.
Good game @Downcast , @mazhar13 . Great write-ups Downcast.
Cheers for crafting a great team @Enigma_87 . Had some really cracking players and a few favourites of mine - Schweinsteiger, Simonsen and of course Schulz whom I rate higher than most. Pegged you down as one of the favourites alongside Invictus/Sjor, Aldo/Stain and Skizzo/Pat.
Cheers for crafting a great team @Enigma_87 . Had some really cracking players and a few favourites of mine - Schweinsteiger, Simonsen and of course Schulz whom I rate higher than most. Pegged you down as one of the favourites alongside Invictus/Sjor, Aldo/Stain and Skizzo/Pat.
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Congrats @Joga Bonito 
Thanks mate, you guys did very well with your drafting as well. Too bad the draft turned out in such fashion in the quarters was fun all round.
Good luck in the final.
I didn't even do anything here. I completely forgot about this draft, anyways.
Credit to @Downcast for doing a great job of arguing for his team, but that's why I was going for Picchi. Dani Alves and Dietz needed the attacking freedom to push forward, and Picchi would allow that. Schweini and Cajkovski were a strong-enough midfield two, the front three by itself was already insane.
Credit to @Downcast for doing a great job of arguing for his team, but that's why I was going for Picchi. Dani Alves and Dietz needed the attacking freedom to push forward, and Picchi would allow that. Schweini and Cajkovski were a strong-enough midfield two, the front three by itself was already insane.
Not sure if Picchi - Schulz is a complimentary partnership
edit: oh, you were probably talking about 5-2-3. But even then the question still remains
edit: oh, you were probably talking about 5-2-3. But even then the question still remains
I see what you're saying, but Picchi, Willi, and Bratseth were all strong stoppers. Willi was a great tackler and strong man-marker. Picchi has to have been a strong man-marker to work in the Catenaccio setup, and Bratseth was good as both a stopper and sweeper. Plus, that formation would allow any one of the three to push forward and get involved in the attack as well, and whilst Picchi and Bratseth were more willing to stay back, Willi liked to go forward at times, so it's not like his team will be outnumbered in the midfield.
If that's not convincing enough, then Suarez and Rensenbrink getting into pockets of space could also cause lots of problems, therefore still keeping the link between the midfield and attack.
I take it back after this picture.
Hmmm, Picchi was more of a pure sweeper in Herrera's La Grande system rather than a man-marker as such. Facchetti, Guarneri and Burgnich did the man-marking and Picchi formed a second line of defense behind them, sweeping anything that leaked through - a sweeper in every sense of the word. Fantastic defender, no doubt.
I was reading about him in Inverting the Pyramid and it seems Picchi wasn't much of a classy sweeper but more of a no nonsense last line of defence. I think he began as an old-style full back you had in a WM
When I did a bit of Corso related research a while back, I watched (and re-watched) some Inter stuff I downloaded at one point (I think all of it is available on YouTube, so downloading it was probably pointless): Anyway, my impression was that Picchi was classy enough - in the sense that he was good on the ball, and a good passer who regularly started attacks for the team with more, say, advanced or adventurous passing. So, in that sense I think he does fit the bill of a classy, ball playing type of the sort you picture in an Italian style defense of that sort (where you have other defenders who are much more conspicuously physical and up-close-and-personal as markers).
But the side as such was rock solid defensively - and he obviously wasn't some sort of silky playmaker back there who couldn't handle himself in one-on-one situations. For instance, he was yet another example of a short-arse defender who nevertheless was more than decent in the air, using smarts and athleticism to time his challenges well, etc.
So, I guess it's not black and white - unsurprisingly. But I nevertheless think it would be misleading to describe him as a no nonsense, last line type - because his more refined game was probably the more important part of the equation for the team as such.
Thanks for the info. I haven't seen that much of the Inter team but just thought I'd pass on what I'd read.
No problem, mate - and I'm not saying Wilson is horribly wrong (I don't remember precisely what he said about Picchi). If you operate behind a backline of the sort Inter sported (defensively), you'll get involved in last-ditch stuff - I recall some tackles of his which certainly can be described as both no-nonsense and, again, last ditch.
But if the idea is to highlight his most characteristic traits, then I think it would be more correct to describe him as "cultured" rather than no-nonsense, since the latter normally implies a more limited player when we're talking about a (central) defender.
It's rarely black and white with any of those Inter players, one could perhaps add. Facchetti, to use an obvious example, was a mix of pretty much everything you can think of. An odd team in many ways - a combination of almost ridiculously cynical tactics, and top-of-the-line skills.
Just watched John Oliver's piece on the scientific studies.
So, my study shows that Inter defenders were, in fact, absolutely clueless*
Case in point - Streltsov fooling everyone by his magic Picchi is the one with the captains armband - and the first one to understand what just happened there, running for his life to block the shot
*study included 17 persons, all of them were rats
So, my study shows that Inter defenders were, in fact, absolutely clueless*
Case in point - Streltsov fooling everyone by his magic
Picchi is the one with the captains armband - and the first one to understand what just happened there, running for his life to block the shot
*study included 17 persons, all of them were rats
'67 season, that one - the one where Inter end up losing to the Lions. I believe that whole match is available somewhere, actually.
Hard to see, but I think it's Luis Suarez making that run back right at the beginning (if that's the No10 shirt he's wearing, it should be him). Then you have - I think - Burgnich right at the edge of the frame there - jogging back, but then rushing in towards Streltsov. The one who's actually up against Streltsov is Landini, I think.
Nice reaction from Picchi, one has to say - puts out the fire.
Hard to see, but I think it's Luis Suarez making that run back right at the beginning (if that's the No10 shirt he's wearing, it should be him). Then you have - I think - Burgnich right at the edge of the frame there - jogging back, but then rushing in towards Streltsov. The one who's actually up against Streltsov is Landini, I think.
Nice reaction from Picchi, one has to say - puts out the fire.
Yeah Chester put it perfectly, Picchi certainly had the ruthless streak which was inherent in that Inter side, but he was also a cultured player on the ball, with impeccable reading of the game - critical aspect when functioning as a clearly deeper and separate distinct line of defense, and of course aspects which you tend to associate with a classy sweeper.
Yeah, quite surprising that for a team which was well-versed in the dark arts of catenaccio, they actually had several brilliant players on the ball - with their ability on the ball paving the way for quick and direct transitions when they won back the ball. The likes of Facchetti, Picchi, Luisito Suarez and of course Mazzola were brilliant to watch, and even some of the more archetypal stoppers such as Burgnich weren't so shabby on the ball as such. When I initially started watching them, I expected a rowdy gang of shithouses, with Luisito Suarez sticking our like a sore thumb but clearly that wasn't the case
.A truly interesting game from a tactical perspective. Inter defended brilliantly as usual, with the 'key battles' being Facchetti taking on Lennox and Burgnich being tasked with Johnstone - both actually did a brilliant job and effectively nullified the 'danger men'.
However, one could say Stein was too smart for that and prepared exceptionally well for those rather predictable man-marking manoeuvres and staked all his chips on his buccaneering wing-backs, with Celtic's famed wing duo of Johnstone-Lennox almost being used in a sacrificial foil of sorts - constantly cutting in even when the occasion didn't call for it, so as to make space for the wing-back overload. I recall Gemmell alluding to this in his book if I remember correctly. Make no mistake, Facchetti and esp Burgnich did a brilliant man-marking job, as usual, but it was to no avail as they simply did not have an outball for their counters/transitions, and they were inevitably bound to cave in to Celtic's relentless attacks and their overloads.
I've always maintained that they missed Suarez more than most and I recently came across a quote by Facchetti which reiterates that too, whilst also indirectly heaping praise on Murdoch who simply ran things that day.
Facchetti said:
The European Cup final against Real would probably be a better watch for those keen on La Grande Inter at it's peak (or perhaps the one against Benfica if they want to bore themselves to death, true catenaccio style). They actually played some excellent football that day with Facchetti, Suarez and esp Corso being on song.
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Good analysis of the '67 final @Joga Bonito. Without Suarez Inter had no control of midfield and, from what I've seen, Murdoch dictated the entire match.
Very nice links, @Joga Bonito – it's well worth checking out all the available Grande Inter stuff, including the more drastic catenaccio performances (in a sense those are even more interesting, albeit far less entertaining obviously, than the fun stuff).
However, what I meant above was that I think the whole Torpedo match is available – or was available, at least. And that isn't bad, given it was a first round match. You can find larger segments of it on YouTube, it seems – maybe all of it is there, only split up.
However, what I meant above was that I think the whole Torpedo match is available – or was available, at least. And that isn't bad, given it was a first round match. You can find larger segments of it on YouTube, it seems – maybe all of it is there, only split up.
"Rowdy gang of shithouses" is a superb turn of phraseYeah, quite surprising that for a team which was well-versed in the dark arts of catenaccio, they actually had several brilliant players on the ball - with their ability on the ball paving the way for quick and direct transitions when they won back the ball. The likes of Facchetti, Picchi, Luisito Suarez and of course Mazzola were brilliant to watch, and even some of the more archetypal stoppers such as Burgnich weren't so shabby on the ball as such. When I initially started watching them, I expected a rowdy gang of shithouses, with Luisito Suarez sticking our like a sore thumb but clearly that wasn't the case
A truly interesting game from a tactical perspective. Inter defended brilliantly as usual, with the 'key battles' being Facchetti taking on Lennox and Burgnich being tasked with Johnstone - both actually did a brilliant job and effectively nullified the 'danger men'.
However, one could say Stein was too smart for that and prepared exceptionally well for those rather predictable man-marking manoeuvres and staked all his chips on his buccaneering wing-backs, with Celtic's famed wing duo of Johnstone-Lennox almost being used in a sacrificial foil of sorts - constantly cutting in even when the occasion didn't call for it, so as to make space for the wing-back overload. I recall Gemmell alluding to this in his book if I remember correctly. Make no mistake, Facchetti and esp Burgnich did a brilliant man-marking job, as usual, but it was to no avail as they simply did not have an outball for their counters/transitions, and they were inevitably bound to cave in to Celtic's relentless attacks and their overloads.
I've always maintained that they missed Suarez more than most and I recently came across a quote by Facchetti which reiterates that too, whilst also indirectly heaping praise on Murdoch who simply ran things that day.
The European Cup final against Real would probably be a better watch for those keen on La Grande Inter at it's peak (or perhaps the one against Benfica if they want to bore themselves to death, true catenaccio style). They actually played some excellent football that day with Facchetti, Suarez and esp Corso being on song.
. Inter vs Celtic was a very interesting match. @Gio will possibly have me assassinated for mentioning his name, but as great as Murdoch was, Bertie Auld stood out even more for me. Such an incisive passer, as well as being an outstanding goalscorer and a combative little fecker. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on him, as my judgement is that he's one of the most underrated players I've encountered in reseaching for these drafts.Ah, I see. Misunderstood you and went on a bizarre tangent in hindsight
.Cheers"Rowdy gang of shithouses" is a superb turn of phrase
Gio will certainly know more about him, but Auld was a brilliant player as far as I'm concerned. It's very hard to find that blend of grit, skill, dynamism and excellent productivity in a midfield player, but Auld seemed to bring it all to the table. Had him in the British draft myself and it was a treat watching him play, and of course the cracking midfield tandem he formed with Murdoch - both complemented each other perfectly. That combo was absolutely pivotal to the Lisbon Lions winning the European Cup though, and for all the fancy tactics of overloading and what not, it was the midfield duo which stamped their authority on the game and led Celtic to gaining a stranglehold on that game.
I guess the general consensus is that Murdoch was the better player but there really was nothing between either of them imo, and I personally prefer Auld stylistically myself.